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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

I'll try out unfly as soon as I can. I can definitely see this one being more cumbersome in some situations.

The reason I wanted to try it in the first place is that PP is frame perfect meaning you can and will get hit by shit when you accidentally j.mp when you meant to unfly.

Is the reliability of always getting unfly worth a more cumbersome input though? Not sure.

Of course like Dime mentioned, both inputs could be kept in so long as the new input doesn't fuck with things that it shouldn't be fucking with (unfly cancels or whatever).
 
So... anyone else feel like the new burst colour changes are pretty neat? The effect could be a little more pronounced but I'm fine with the current effect.
 
Is the bug mentioned in the notes caused by using invincible attacks to whiff it or armor attacks to absorb it?
 
We had some weird inputs!

Imagine if head on required a frame perfect PP or if a Feral Edge input on the ground caused 11 frames of recovery after spending two meters and a giant "hit me" animation. Mistakes would be made.

In either case, it is definitely 'learn to play', and if both changes revert, we'll deal with it without any problems... But, if we can ease the burden of it without fucking other stuff up... why not?

There is nothing in this game more "put your controller down and walk away" frustrating than reading BE, baiting BE, fuck up unfly > get j.mp instead and eat BE. Ahhhh, the nerd rage!!!

But anyway, Mike doesn't call us complainwheels for nothing.
 
I liked PP more than 214K. But I don't play painwheel and I guess I won't ever now.

Also #ChangeBackInstallInput

'cause like I liked both just fine the way they were I could use both those things just fine. Just press PPP if two buttons is too hard. Don't mash thresher if you're too close to the ground. But hey I'm just one guy with an opinion. Pay no mind to it.
 
Not that im agreeing or not, but ive never missed an unfly input and gotten out something different. Which is totally weird and strange to me.

I dont think it requres frame perfect precision at all. I can unfly all day easily with pp but i cant call perfect manual assist calls at all.

Maybe its the diagonals that manual assists are used with, and not my actual timing that has caused the issues in the past.

I dont really think its worth it to say that something is "easy" per se though.. what is easy for one person may not be for another and some people use control pads, as an example.

But im being totally hypocritical here, i know ive lambasted people in tje past for thinking certain things were alot harder than i found them, i guess i feel its more a situational thing when execution matters or not.
 
Call me a scrub, but I think generally if something can be made easier to execute and it doesn't disrupt balance then it's probably a good idea.
 
I don't like the new unfly. It feels like I'm rolling the dice on whether or not I'm going to actually fly because it comes out sometimes on negative edge it seems. Fly Unfly with forward momentum feels rather cumbersome now as well, 214K, 2146 release K. I could get use to it I'm sure and find tricks on how to do it better, but I really didn't have any issues with PP.
 
Grangach said:
Call me a scrub, but I think generally if something can be made easier to execute and it doesn't disrupt balance then it's probably a good idea.

The problem is, it got harder to do and feels finicky.
 
Ok so I tried out the new unfly input and I personally dont like it and think it complicates things and adds new problems. Like if i were trying to reset with a crossup low instead of doing 214K PP while holding forward I now have to do 214K 2146K and this creates the problem where if i cross over the opponent at the very end it autocorrects to 236K and i get a crossup buer. This is annoying. and on top of it having to repeat another motion to go back to neutral seems odd to me.
(also sometimes i get refly and i have no idea why. or i end up getting a JLK which means i messed up the input. Never got problems like this with the old PP input)

@When's Skullgirls @ElkyDori @Negus Eyoel @droopyturtle @MegamanDS care to voice your opinion here?
 
I tried out the Unfly motion in an actual game today, and I got a lot of re-flys at neutral instead of unflies. Not cool.
 
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personally not a fan of the new motion. harder to keep forward momentum and sometimes unflys are just randomly reflys. i prefer PP myself
 
My immediate problem with it is the telegraphing it produces. It's obvious that you're about to unfly with the little juke that precedes it.

I like PP for unfly better.
 
Short one today...

Beowulf
- More colored frames! Taunt!
- Fixed Moonsault first hit, oops. :^)
- Shortened super cancel period at the begining of Wulf Shoot. It's specifically there as an aid if you mess up.
Big Band
- Fixed effect colors in a bunch of palettes, yay Brian. Thanks uh, zeknife? I think.
http://steamcommunity.com/games/208610/announcements/detail/195114928720815959
 
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Grendel Killa, a frame in his grab mode walking forward animation, aaand I think that's it.
 
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Are there still any? There were a few temp "grey chair" sprites before the latest update, but I went through the whole moveset now and don't see any left. Unless I missed something, Hurting seems to be colored on everything, including the otherwise uncolored (grendel killa + grab mode walk forward) animations.
 
Muro said:
Are there still any? There were a few temp "grey chair" sprites before the latest update, but I went through the whole moveset now and don't see any left. Unless I missed something, Hurting seems to be colored on everything, including the otherwise uncolored (grendel killa + grab mode walk forward) animations.

You´re right, my bad.

Well, looks like now were are waiting for 2 animations, all Voice Clips and 3-4 palletes, right?
 
@Dime_x

Yeah, I don't know what it is. I don't use macros, and I always get my assist calls... but that PP seems to fail me right as I need it far too often.

@ClarenceMage

Trust me, I hit them hard enough. I can't really even play too late at night lest I find myself divorced.

@Other PWs

What is all of this unfly cross-under stuff? Is there unfly tech that I'm missing/haven't seen? Why not just use j.mp (I think...) for a fast fall to cross under?

In any case, it sounds pretty well reviled.
 
Elda Taluda said:
I don't think headless sucks. I just don't think the benefits of headless are outweighed by the negatives.

+ Headless can make just about anything safe if your opponent is sandwiched between it and Fortune
+ Access to a really quick (and practically safe) over head
+ Possible full screen confirms with Nom if your opponent is being reckless
+ Meterless ground and air throw conversions provided the head is around
+ Can combo from Furrserker Purrage if head placement is right


- Managing the heads position is paramount and can be difficult in some match ups. A lot of characters can lock the head down if you put it in a bad position, with your opponent almost always having the advantage if they choose to harass the head. This forces what should be a boon in Fortune's neutral game completely around. She can't afford to just sit and eat what is practically free damage for the other player. It puts her in a terrible situation that I find is too easy for most characters to do.
- Loss of both meterless reversal options
- IAD options are noticeably slower and weaker
- Damage is distinctly less than Head-On.
- Reset options are not drastically better than Head-On especially when you get less damage overall
- No more hard knockdown with headless Furserker Purrage.
- OH MY GOD THE PAIIIIIINNN (corner combos against Fortune and her head)

Headless Fortune is still fun and there are instances when it should make sense to use it. But at the end of the day I don't find myself thinking "Man, I could've won that if only I'd gone headless!"

I know I've thought the reverse a LOT though.

Stuff said:
I prefer head-on for the same reasons taluda does.

I get more reward for less effort so I've just been neglecting headless because the risk no longer feels worth it. (Although I've felt this way as of late while Taluda probably felt that way since he first used Fortune) Often times I just don't want to use headless because of the inevitable mistake that costs me all my pressure and my life. I still feel the mistake isn't as painful when I screw up with head-on.

Not that I don't use headless or anything. It's just not the super aggressive glass canon I feel it should be.


I'm super late to this discussion, yay!

I play headless Fortune because she's more fun. I don't think she's bad by any means. I also don't think if you do a cost benefit analysis she is actually worth the risk, and it's hard to justify the risk a lot of the time. You assume more risk and take more damage for screwing up than any other character in the game. I feel like I have to deal with a bunch of penalties for just playing the version of the character I want to play, because the benefits she gets in that mode of play really don't outweigh those penalties.

I think people should learn every part of their character but I can't really argue with people that don't want to take the head off when they list all the reasons Taluda did, because it's really hard to come up with counterpoints. When Taluda told me what he thought of headless Fortune before and listed those points, all I could think was that "she controls the screen in ways no other character can" and "she's fun!" I still think headless is a bit better than head on in terms of footsies but not 150% damage/no reversal better (yeah don't compare characters, think about your characters tools and how you control the screen etc but this is how most people approach picking a character/team building).

She used to be too good, and then got a ton of nerfs all at the same time when only a couple would have made her fair again. Losing Fiber Upper was huge.

She's a glass cannon except the cannonball you get for turning into glass is only marginally bigger. In a perfect world I'd like her tools for getting in and applying pressure be significantly better than head on Fortune because of all the risk you assume when you use her. Head on Fortune would be the more balanced counterpart with better defense and damage but not better pressure tools.

RemiKz said:
I think fortune is a lot funner with head kicking and such and I very much appreciate that I can combo into headspike easier again.

If I could make some suggestions though.

- can we try having sneeze be a knockdown so the opponent actually has to worry about getting hit by this more? Would be nice if applied to the end of feral edge sneeze too.
- can we remove the head roll hitbox at the end of berserker? I'd really like to use this more but more often than not her combos end her up in the corner so I kinda can't really use it.
- can we maybe revert her old headless airdash? Or maybe just lower the minimum height slightly?

I really think she would be fine with her old airdash height, but that's not happening. I however would like to see a lower airdash height as a beta experiment if that's possible, because IAD j.LK, j.MK strings after headbutt pressure to get in or j.HK after zoom or headbutt are textbook headless Fortune footsies that feel super duper awkward to do because of how high up you have to do them from.
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
give zoom a low.

Edit: so is everyone still going the oh "lol you don't need headless just stay head on and you'll be just fine"?

No, I just still don't think headless is where she should be.

It's also worth nothing that when headless Fortune gets double snapped she also gets put in a worse place than any other character because the head is also getting hit so you're not properly recovering health. Yay time to talk about something else now!
 
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i use headless however i feel....less rewarded? positioning the head, setting up stuff and then getting hit with the head or just getting hit in general kinda irks me. right now i just picture if *WARNING DUMBEST FORTUNE THING I SAID DO NOT LISTEN* s.mp(headless) would stagger so i can go back to head on if things get dicey.

i dunno. i do fine with her head on and headless i guess. (that airdash height change still fucks me up holy shit).

on another note can you even "iad" and still hit?
 
I'm not really someone whose fortune opinion is worth listening to but I concur with about everything @FuLLBLeeD says.

I find it way more fun to play but it doesn't feel like the better option, I like the changes a lot so far with decap-attack but I can't really think of anything that headless can get that will make her more of a better/equal option to head-on.
 
Ok when i first used fortune i didn't even know she had her airdash height change(started last January) However i heard about headless and i was thrilled i knew the problems that lied with fortune if you mess up but i continued to play her. at that point i haven't heard of beta and when i did fortune's changes were coming to retail the next day.


ANYWAYS this time around i completely shy-ed away from fortune for various reasons. Mainly the reason was because i didn't understand what exactly i was supposed to do with headless, it felt like i gave the opponent to sit back and hit the head and i couldn't do nothing about it. if i had bar then sure i would use but just to protect the head? i also had to worry about whether my opponent was going to DP or not so it allowed them to play mindgames on me. On top of having subpar damage in a convenient setting and having to set up the head meticulously for the big damage and having no reversal option (no sneeze may be one but its more like a delayed DP that you will get hit and then the head will save you). at the cost of having a better neutral, i've lost a reliable DP(fine) i lost the ability to really use my head(this could be done before but now its EZ mode for every player and every character). Everytime someone says headless has better mixups i ask them "what are they" 9/10 they are like head on resets but modified because j.hp being the head now. which brings me to my other point.


the air dash height. because of the air dash height you can barely land j.lk into axekick and if you did you were telegraphed and i got blocked 9/10. ironically modified crossunders and air grabs do better and that's not even using the head. which reminds me in a serious matter is zoom actually a low? cause people keep downbacking it so i honestly have no clue.

those reasons shyed me away from using headless and so all i had left was head on but i had filia so i dunno.

TL;DR: Fortune just needs a dedicated player right? well when if you're good with head-on fortune and neutral you get a lot more benefits without risking TOO much except having a slightly harder time in neutral then why be dedicated to both forms when you could just go head on and never have to worry about the negatives of headless?
 
Had some (brief) hands-on with the new fly motion.

Re-fly is brutal. Seems to happen almost 1/3rd of the time.

The motion I don't mind at all and it took just a few tries to get used to it.

My biggest complaint is Elky's. You do a little dance in the air when you unfly. I don't know if it is a tell or not, but it is ugly.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
Everytime someone says headless has better mixups i ask them "what are they" 9/10 they are like head on resets but modified because j.hp being the head now. which brings me to my other point.
13:00

It'd be cool if headless Fiber Upper allowed followups on any number of hits to give it more use on offense. As for headless IADs... I just always disliked how it felt so stiff trying to get a button out ASAP, but because the the minimum height is so "high" I often miss my button press and just get an empty airdash. If there was a larger buffer or something that'd help out quite a bit. If you go into training mode and do IAD stuff with her you can still see that her mixup can be pretty damn quick and tricky. But yeah, all I personally really care for is a better Fiber Upper when headless, and a larger buffer on headless IAD so I can more easily get a button out ASAP.

But if others disagree... I already know I'm going to regret typing this, but what if headless and head-on had their minimum heights switched so that head-on is the more "defensive" type and headless is the more aggressive sometimes-a-glass-cannon? That'd kinda make her axe kick overhead pointless outside of resets, though.

As for opponents being able to get free damage on the head, as some have pointed out, if they spend time wailing on the head and standing still, that's time for Fortune to get the positional advantage. Sometimes I'll purposefully let opponents hit the head just so I can get in easily or just counter-poke them. It occasionally works, heh.
 
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I agree with pretty much everything that everybody has already said regarding painwheel's unfly input, so chalk up another tally for "switch it back to PP"

I also don't really care for the hatred install input, I think it's fine in retail. I've never gotten an Install by mistake and felt like I got robbed and deserved an Air Super, it's always been a situation where I know I'm risking it. But since it does remove those cases, and the new input doesn't break anything then it's fine, just a matter of preference.
 
Can someone explain to me what things go wrong when PP has a 1F Kara window to let you press them 1F apart?
I realize that would let you cancel the first frame of a jNormal into unfly, but I can't think of anything that it would really break, since you'd just get hit.

Someone help me understand! :)
 
Skarmand said:
Can someone explain to me what things go wrong when PP has a 1F Kara window to let you press them 1F apart?
I realize that would let you cancel the first frame of a jNormal into unfly, but I can't think of anything that it would really break, since you'd just get hit.

Someone help me understand! :)
If there was a problem with this, I guess it would probably be due to you not technically being in a flying state when you use a normal during flight mode but other than that I don't really know
 
KhaosMuffins said:
But if others disagree... I already know I'm going to regret typing this, but what if headless and head-on had their minimum heights switched so that head-on is the more "defensive" type and headless is the more aggressive sometimes-a-glass-cannon? That'd kinda make her axe kick overhead pointless outside of resets, though.
a part of me thinks this is a really bad idea and a part of me thinks this is what beta is for so why not try it out? i still am under the belief that headless fortune is severely underrated. it's just that headless is less effort and most people prefer to put in less effort to become equally as effective. but hey i'm not a fortune player so i guess take what i'm saying with a grain of salt.
 
Negus Eyoel said:
a part of me thinks this is a really bad idea and a part of me thinks this is what beta is for so why not try it out? i still am under the belief that headless fortune is severely underrated. it's just that headless is less effort and most people prefer to put in less effort to become equally as effective. but hey i'm not a fortune player so i guess take what i'm saying with a grain of salt.
Yeh, I don't like the idea but I just threw it out in case others were actually interested in it. I also think headless Fortune is still underrated, and I haven't seen a single person use any of SkippyMcYay's headless tech.
 
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RE: Headless Fortune

>mfw I have 5 bars vs Headless Fortune
Bg_eSEyCcAAqh7Z.jpg

And then she dies.
 
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I feel like if you swapped the minimum IAD heights for Ms.Fortune, you would just then get people playing headless and not head-on anymore, which was the problem we had in previous versions.

I would still like to see these tested @Mike_Z
- can we try having sneeze be a knockdown so the opponent actually has to worry about getting hit by this more? Would be nice if applied to the end of feral edge sneeze too.
- can we remove the head roll hitbox at the end of berserker? I'd really like to use this more but more often than not her combos end her up in the corner so I kinda can't really use it because it'll trigger burst.
- can we maybe revert her old headless airdash? Or maybe just lower the minimum height slightly?
 
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RemiKz said:
I feel like if you swapped the minimum IAD heights for Ms.Fortune, you would just then get people playing headless and not head-on anymore, which was the problem we had in previous versions.

I still think having sneeze cause a knockdown instead of just hitting people away is worth trying out.

Screw that yo
 
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