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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Hype as fuck for this Draugen Punch change, you dont even know. Get ready for some random ass uppercuts yall cause theyre comin at ya
 
dekillsage said:
why did argus get nerfed
Because you touch yourself at night.

No, but, I have no clue. There's really no reason for it I can think of.
 
I'm hoping the Airball nerf and PW block helps against lk.airball which is super annoying.

Also not sure what Argus nerf was for.

Finally, could someone in the know tell me if the MF changes are a net nerf/buff/whatever?
 
dekillsage said:
why did argus get nerfed

I think its that way so that if Parasoul catches Peacock with Silent Scope when she's throwing projectiles, Peacock can't cancel into Argus to dodge the Sniper.

Also the same applies to Level 1 Sing xx SBO
 
Yay Squigly buffs. Can't wait to try this one out.
 
How does the new Draugen work as an assist? Is it as good as updo or napalm pillar?
 
I'm going to take a crack and say no because unless it's charged, it doesn't cause a knockdown, and that's one of the primary purposes of most DP assists.

I'm sure it could help people do things with Peacock zoning though.
 
Zazz said:
How does the new Draugen work as an assist? Is it as good as updo or napalm pillar?
It's a one-off assist that you need to charge beforehand to do. If you don't get Squigly in to charge it every time you're stuck with lvl1 DP.
 
The variant Draugen Punch feels sorta arbitrary mechanically, but is very satisfying to have, so I think it's a net gain overall. It definitely patches a big hole in her gameplay.

I'm kinda... weirdly ambivalent about the Big Band taunt not being used up block or whiff, but it's hard for me to articulate why. I guess it feels kinda too generous considering how strong it is if it goes off proper. It was in a good risk/reward place already. But BB mains may disagree, lol.
 
too bad only seria draugen punch has full invincibility, the invincibility on regular heavy DP is nice but it does not make a good stunt double
 
Airball more unsafe on block doesn't really effect me. I use the move more for mobility then fishing random raw hits.

Lol Argus losing some invis. More reason not to hesitate blitzing Peacock.
 
dekillsage said:
why did argus get nerfed
i thought it was because it was too good as a spammable reversal? idk though i never really liked peacock. . .i always thought her reversal was M. Bang!
 
Argus was one of the worst reversals in the game because you can actually counter super it. Only use it really had was to counter raw sniper and such.
 
Argus is able to just-frame dodge a lot of things and fullscreen punish because it is invincible for juuuust long enough...anything Valentine tried to do to punish bomb calls including ground and air scalpels / Filia's drill / another Argus / Silent Scope (even with the extra active frames) / backward car (yep). It kinda reminded me of the 2f of invincibility on Genei-Jin, where when it happened just felt wrong.
So, now you can dodge with Lenny or attack with Argus, but not both. And certain things like Silent Scope, if you dodge with Lenny, because of the Lenny change you can now punish with Lenny->Argus and combo from it.
 
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That makes sense. Didn't know it could do all that.
 
Beta Experiments List
General
]NEW - Any assist that is invincible while attacking will automatically cause the assist cooldown after leaving, even if it does not get hit.
Fortune
NEW - s.HP -2f startup, +2f recovery. Better poke? Same speed as Filia cr.HP now.
NEW - j.HP -2f startup; knockback adjusted to be more combo-friendly; damage 975->775; no longer combos into Cat Spike.
So. God damn. War on assists, is it? This would drastically affect the game, wouldn't it? It would force careful use of assists, that's for sure. You wouldn't be able to just mash assist when the opponent gets close.
 
YES.

If invincibility doesn't eventually get removed from assists, I will GLADLY take this as an alternative.
 
None of my assists are inv so this change only affects me in a positive way.

I do see a storm coming, though.
 
No more mashed Updo/Pillar.
 
That's the sound of five hundred assistabellabands being learned
 
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This is nowhere near a big enough change to make invincible assists extinct, guys. Assist lockout isn't that long. It's only like a second or so.

Also, does this mean that normal tagging the assist lockout would be stacked with invincible assist lockout? Are there now no rewards for trying to tag an invincible assist?
 
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Assist Lockout is 90f

E: THE WAY I UNDERSTOOD IT WHICH APPARENTLY IS WRONG:
Commonly used assists affected by this: updo, pillar, fiber, lk.butt, bband dp(how many people use that?)
Commonly used assists that are unaffected by this: hairball, copter, lnl, everything peacock, napalm shot, everything painwheel, everything valentine, m./h.butt, cilia slide, everything squigly, all bigband other than his dp

And then it affects some stuff that nobody used anyways like MGR?

Iunno that doesn't seem like a big deal overall. Out of assists that matter, it nerfs Updo (big change!) Pillar (who runs Parasoul somewhere other than Point and then not with Napalm Shot? I mean this is a nerf but really not one that should actually come into play all too often) and L.Butt (whose users can switch to M.Butt)
 
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This change doesn't affect me

but why
 
IsaVulpes said:
And then it affects some stuff that nobody used anyways like MGR?
Depends on what is meant by invincibility. Is it fully invincible moves, or moves with partial invincibility as well? MGR is only fully invincible on a couple frames. I mean, the attack invincible frames may as well be fully invincible as an assist, but still. Does it also affect grab invincible moves like Diamond Drop, who also have a frame or two of full invincibility but are mostly grab invulnerable?
 
Actually, squigly DP assist is affected and so is Liver Mortis but nobody uses those assists anyway.

Also it apparently doesn't affect assists that have only throw invincibility, like Diamond Drop and LP Bang. Which makes perfect sense since you can't throw an assist anyway. Likewise it impacts moves that only have hit-invincibility like MP Bang and MP Beat Extend
 
Jason said:
Also it apparently doesn't affect assists that have only throw invincibility, like Diamond Drop and LP Bang
I could have sworn Diamond Drop had a few full invincible frames.
 
Zidiane said:
I could have sworn Diamond Drop had a few full invincible frames.

Actually, you're right but I specifically tested it in training mode and Diamond Drop appears to be exempt from the lockout
 
Zidiane said:
Depends on what is meant by invincibility. Is it fully invincible moves, or moves with partial invincibility as well? MGR is only fully invincible on a couple frames. I mean, the attack invincible frames may as well be fully invincible as an assist, but still. Does it also affect grab invincible moves like Diamond Drop, who also have a frame or two of full invincibility but are mostly grab invulnerable?
The way I understood the patchnotes, everything is affected that has one or more fully invuln active frames. So not M.Butt despite its invuln startup, but Squigly DP is affected despite its vuln startup.

I don't think a global change like this, mostly nerfing assists which weren't good to begin with (ie Bella DP) makes too much sense honestly.

- If you have a problem with assists dictating a good part of the neutral game, this needs to apply to all. Napalm Shot is not exactly less of a neutral game control assist than Pillar.
- If you have a problem with assists halting offense, then the armored assists need to take a hit as well.
- If you have a problem with just those 3 specific assists (l.butt, updo, pillar), then nerfing those separately seems like a better idea.

♠♠♠

On a different note, I'd like if assist lockout didn't count down while either character is in hitstun / knocked down / whatevers (right now, if you hit an assist, then right after also hit the opponent and combo him = no lockout; if you hit an assist, then get hit and opponent gets to start a combo = no lockout; etc - my proposed way would ensure actual 90f of assistless neutral game which imo would be more in spirit of the change)
 
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M Butt is affected though.
 
IsaVulpes said:
The way I understood the patchnotes, everything is affected that has one or more fully invuln active frames. So not M.Butt despite its invuln startup, but Squigly DP is affected despite its vuln startup.

I don't think a global change like this, mostly nerfing assists which weren't good to begin with (ie Bella DP) makes too much sense honestly.

Upon actual testing, MK butt does have the assist lockout, so does LK but not HK
 
Zidiane said:
Is MGR affected?

No

Also on the noteable list, All strengths of Fiber Upper are affected, even though HK is the only one that has active frames that are also invincible
 
I think this is a pretty solid change to try out.

Invuln assists are pretty solid as a defensive tool which this won't affect much at all. But when you get pushed into a corner as solo and are trapped between an aggressive offense and an updo in between pushblocks...
 
IsaVulpes said:
If you have a problem with assists halting offense, then the armored assists need to take a hit as well.

To be fair, if the armor actually absorbs any hits, the assist gets locked out anyway because it took damage. If invincibility frames cause your attack to pass though the assist, the cooldown doesn't apply. So I can see why they're being treated differently.

I see your point though.
 
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