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Street Fighter V

I was talking with friends about chip damage earlier.

GG and BB chip is great because you have Faultless. Suddenly, when you're on your last pixel, you're going to lose meter very fast. You might survive if you play correctly, but you will die helplessly if your resources are spent and gone. That's fun. There's gameplay there. Fun, exciting gameplay.

In SFIV, you have no recourse to many chip setups. I personally don't mind that, since you played the game to get the opponent to that state in the first place. However, I don't mind having to get one last "real" touch to close the round. That's fun gameplay right there. It's a comeback mechanic, but a small one (It's also way better than Pandora Mode, let me tell you). In SFV, you can also burn your CA, but that looks like your opponent can burn an Alpha Counter if you try to cancel into it.

I think the only problem I see is that, unlike GG, SFV by design offers more "advantage" to the defender in chip situations than in GG, despite your leftover meter being like a 2nd reserve health bar. You have to be skillful in your application of FD or you'll lose your ability to come back in seconds. In SFV, I look at the characters and see any number of ways where I could lose on an abrupt read, even when pressing the offensive.

But not every game can be Guilty Gear, guys.
g6cYnyw.png
 
I like Nash's new design.

They could have made him into Blanka... how would that be?

Ignoring the case of chip can't kill, I think the white health on block is clever. I hope it solves some of the inherent frustration of going up against a zoner without actually weakening the zoner too much.

Someone like Peacock can mostly win a game before you even get to touch her. Specials giving meter and chip often means that when you do finally get them into block stun, you're at a huge disadvantage... something you have to make up which can be difficult to do since you're blockstun is generally not providing the same level of chip that their zoning is.

White health in theory rewards you if your defense is good and you can get in. It rewards them by giving them potential damage but still requiring them to open you up. I think it is clever, though I'm not sure how it will play out.
 
I think in the context of SFV's high damage, fast stun, VSav-like white health from medium and heavy buttons, and relatively few actually invincible reversals the lack of chip death seems balanced. Two touches could have you at death's door so it seems fair and exciting to need that last clean touch rather than the guaranteed chip deaths that were common in SF4. Not to mention there is chip death from supers and meter seems plentiful in SF5.


Also for Mike's example, I'm having a hard time sympathizing with Carmine of all characters not having a safe, inescapable, full screen chip out. The giant attacks in general for Uniel make the lack of chip death seem quite fair in that game imo.
 
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Spencer said:
I like Nash's new design.

They could have made him into Blanka... how would that be?

Oh, you.
 
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Vadsamoht said:
Are they completely vulnerable, or are they e.g. airborne from frame 1 and therefore throw invincible? Either way, there are still other defensive options, you just don't have a catch-all get out of jail free card. Other games also do this (e.g. Yatagarasu).
Combo said their airbourne.
 
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BeatNinja said:
This character select theme though

OK setting my SNK biased aside for a moment, I have to say THAT'S REALLY FUCKING GOOD CHARACTER SELECT MUSIC!

It might even be better than both classic and third strike character select themes for SFIII

FUCK CAPCOM! YOU DIDNT HAVE TO DO THIS! YOU DIDNT HAVE TO MAKE THE CHARACTER SELECT MUSIC THIS GOOD!
 
I think it's kinda overdone for character select music but it's pretty nice on its own
 
Daymn that's some good music for character select. I mostly don't get that hyped for them, but this one is something else. Bodes well for the rest of the OST.

I hope just like in SFIV there will be arena themes and character themes.

BTW did they remove "Danger Theme" that activated in SFIV on low health or both characters having ready ultra? Cause those really sucked. Thankfully I didn't hear anything like that in gameplays so far.
 
Kawalorn said:
Daymn that's some good music for character select. I mostly don't get that hyped for them, but this one is something else. Bodes well for the rest of the OST.

I hope just like in SFIV there will be arena themes and character themes.

BTW did they remove "Danger Theme" that activated in SFIV on low health or both characters having ready ultra? Cause those really sucked. Thankfully I didn't hear anything like that in gameplays so far.
It's there.
Watching the invitational at e3 is really noticeable on at least one of the tracks.
It adds guitar and harder louder drums and sounds really hype and awesome.
Much better in comparison to stages like Training Stage and Hidden Temple from SF4 which get less hype the less health they have lol.

I'm pretty sure it health based from what I just checked on my break here but it might be coincidence.
 
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Skarmand said:
It's there.
Watching the invitational at e3 is really noticeable on at least one of the tracks.
It adds guitar and harder louder drums and sounds really hype and awesome.
Much better in comparison to stages like Training Stage and Hidden Temple from SF4 which get less hype the less health they have lol.

I'm pretty sure it health based from what I just checked on my break here but it might be coincidence.

I know that the music gets more hype with rounds like SFxT did.

But if there will again be boring 5 seconds loops in those situations like in SFIV... Imma be sad. :(
 
the best way they can compliment the character select theme would be to have all the art face the player, instead of having them face the opponent, and all of them look like they're gonna say "you gonna pick me or what YOU FUCKIN' PUSSY?! YOU MAN ENOUGH TO PLAY ME! LET'S GO! C'MON!"
 
Skarmand said:
It's there.
Watching the invitational at e3 is really noticeable on at least one of the tracks.
It adds guitar and harder louder drums and sounds really hype and awesome.
Much better in comparison to stages like Training Stage and Hidden Temple from SF4 which get less hype the less health they have lol.

I'm pretty sure it health based from what I just checked on my break here but it might be coincidence.
When was training stage ever hype?

On the subject of the OST to SFIV I fought the OST was generally shit except for five themes

Solar Eclipse theme
Beautiful Bay theme
African Air Field theme
Cody vs guy final fight street wise theme (this single handedly invalidated my post I know)
Dhalsim vs rufus SF2 dhalsim stage remix or whatever.
 
Okay I'm home.

So about the music!
On Round 2 or 3 of the China town stage and a character has less than 35% health ish, the music adds guitar and drums.

Example

Activates at 26:01 exactly.
 
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No, but seriously I like Indestructible and it made me hype when playing SFIV. :( Anyone...please?

I generally liked SFIV OST but it was far from master piece. My biggest gripe was that some of my most favourite themes (Korea Stage, Volcano Stage) was ruined with the "Danger" music. With how slow SFIV was they sometimes went for half a round.

Skarmand said:
Okay I'm home.

So about the music!
On Round 2 or 3 of the China town stage and a character has less than 35% health ish, the music adds guitar and drums.

Example

Activates at 26:01 exactly.

Aaaaand it sounds like those goddamn short loops again. God-friggin-damnit.
 
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If you are still iffy about the chip damage change I can tell you that it works just fine in UNIEL. It does not make zoning weak in UNIEL by any means, in fact it's kinda cool to know that you're never 100% out of the game.

Have to say this game looks really promising, I will most likely check it out on release.
 
i like that SF5 has a live combo counter too, rather than only displaying the number of hits after the combo ends like SF4 does
 
No chip death is probably one of the least harmful comeback mechanics, but it's not so great for running tournaments because it artificially lengthens the match and can go to time up in a case where the losing player might have just lost sooner anyway.

Does anyone know if SF5 has something like SG's Tournament mode or button config on char select with tap-to-set?
 
yeah I like that too. I personally don't know why they didn't do that in SF4 but eh whatever...

Worldjem from the footage that i found there is no signs of any button config. They must have had the sticks setup off screen on the stream. But my guess is that it's still using the scroll to config setup just like in SF4.
 
It looks like the build they've been using goes straight to char select from the title screen without any options, chances are all the sticks are just set to use the default 6 button layout for now. Hopefully they do add in those features though as it would be extremely useful as a player
 
worldjem said:
But it's not so great for running tournaments because it artificially lengthens the match and can go to time up in a case where the losing player might have just lost sooner anyway.
Really? because this does not happen in UNIEL.

Timeouts at high level play would have happened regardless of whether or not the chip damage mechanic was there. Even in slower paced matchups like Hilda/Gord.

I realize UNIEL is not exactly like SF but I think the neutral game is paced fairly similarly.
 
I'm curious too as to how accurate the Radar Charts are during the loading screen character bios
 
They're actually a pretty poor way of representing most kinds of data (including the stats they are using there) and having a linear radial axis is also suspect. Methinks they just wanted the game to look more technical rather than those numbers having anything to do with anything.
 
Ryu is taller than chun in the data, but the character model of chun li is bigger than ryu's
 
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Another reference, it says Birdie is 7'1" and 507lbs...Andre the Giant was 7'4" 520lbs
 
Sotherius said:
Ryu is taller than chun in the data, but the character model of chun li is bigger than ryu's
I'm going off of memory here, but I thought Chun tends to walk/stand on her toes and that ryu bends his knees more in his stance. Is she still taller if you compare their "T" stances?
 
Covenant said:
I'm going off of memory here, but I thought Chun tends to walk/stand on her toes and that ryu bends his knees more in his stance. Is she still taller if you compare their "T" stances?
She may walk on her toes, but her legs are more bent (is that the term?), and ryu has a more straight posture in general, and he still manages to be at the same height (or a little shorter), than chun li. Well, now i need to compare screen shots to see if i'm right

EDIT: wooah, i took some screen from the early builds of sf5 (it was difficult to find a ryu vs chun on the actual build), and tried to compare, but it is still unclear to me.

in their normal stances, chun looks shorter, but her legs are more bent, and looks like her legs are bigger than ryu's (nothing unexpected for me here), but ryu's torso seems bigger, so i don't know, then, i took their height data from the select screen, and converted to meters for me to understand what the difference of height was supposed to be, and is a very small difference anyway, and they sure look like having similar heights.

here the image i did to compare
vj7Dmut.jpg
 
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Dolfinh said:
Really? because this does not happen in UNIEL.
Timeouts at high level play would have happened regardless of whether or not the chip damage mechanic was there. Even in slower paced matchups like Hilda/Gord.
I realize UNIEL is not exactly like SF but I think the neutral game is paced fairly similarly.
Sonicfox CLEARLY would have won that round at CB if UNIEL had chip death instead of it leading to a draw because he was locking down the other character with blood stuff.
Surely, that is not the first or last case of a time up due to no chip death.

Sonicfox's case is an extreme example that doesn't happen often, but that doesn't mean a game has to go all the way to time up in order to consider no chip death affecting match length.
 
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I really don't think that's a reference when Hugo exists as a character. Those stats also date back to alpha.

Trivia. Andre the giant is one of those famous american wrestlers who was literally and figuratively huge in japan. He first appeared in the final fight games as an npc named andore before eventually appearing in street fighter 3 as his own character.

andre_the_giant_23_dvd_set_7f707.jpg
He was also from a european country...nearly eight feet tall..and had a kingly afro.
 
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I also wonder if the Orie would have wanted to go in more if they didn't think they could just settle for a timeout draw through the chip situation.
Dunno where I stand on the chip thing, just a thought, lel.
 
worldjem said:
Sonicfox CLEARLY would have won that round at CB if UNIEL had chip death instead of it leading to a draw because he was locking down the other character with blood stuff.
Surely, that is not the first or last case of a time up due to no chip death.

Sonicfox's case is an extreme example that doesn't happen often, but that doesn't mean a game has to go all the way to time up in order to consider no chip death affecting match length.

Yeah, but that would be moronic... a champion with a blockstring infinite and some of the dumbest blockstring pressure outside of said infinite having the ability to kill on block would be busted. That video demonstrates less of a problem with no chip death and more of a problem with Carmine once you're forced to block.

That said, I think the point is still valid. I don't think the no chip death affects time outs all that much outside of a handful of cases... a lot of which involve Carmine.

I actually don't even think the two games are comparable here since no chip death could be a good idea for UNIEL while still being a bad idea for SFV. No chip death in UNIEL would mean a huge revamp for many of the characters... again, first of which would be Carmine.

I can say this in defense of the SFV's decision, the E3 tournament was really fun to watch when a character was doing everything they could to hold on to their last pixel while their opponent was forced to open them up. Maybe time will tell on it, and it ends up being super lame... but right now, I kind of like it.
 
Out of curiosity, for those who think the lack of chip kills is a bad thing, would you consider the problem mostly solved if projectiles alone were given the ability to kill with chip, or would you rather see it added to all specials?
 
Spencer said:
That video demonstrates less of a problem with no chip death and more of a problem with Carmine once you're forced to block.
But, then, that's kind of the point. Artificially extending match length is bad for tournaments and neutral at best for balance.

No chip death is being used as a crutch for balance by artificially extending match length instead of actually balancing the roster.
So, in that sense, no chip death is bad because it enables devs to not put as much effort towards character balance while still giving the illusion of balance because characters appear to still have a chance to come back as long as they keep blocking even though they would have lost much earlier in the match if there was chip death.

I don't know how it will play out with SF5, and no chip death, by nature, is nicer to newer players because they don't die as often, but in the long run, but I don't think it actually brings any positives to the game.
 
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Vadsamoht said:
Out of curiosity, for those who think the lack of chip kills is a bad thing, would you consider the problem mostly solved if projectiles alone were given the ability to kill with chip, or would you rather see it added to all specials?


The more exceptions to a rule you add to a fighting game, the more pontual balance problems you get

If you want chip defense, make it a valuable resource (i.e. expending some kind of meter) or requiring a great commitment (hindering some other kind of option)
 
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