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The One man Orchestra Pit (Beta thoughts and suggestions)

whoops that was the wrong thread, anyways parries, I want to see nightmare legion parried now i tried it but it is really hard
 
So I'm going to add "reflexively changing block directions and trying to punch an opponent that's jumped over you" to the list of things that accidentally triggers the taunt.
 
So far Mr Big band has gotten some amazing stuff, I am wondering what they will do with his back dash, I remember Mike saying something about it a long time ago. I wonder since he is tager like from Blazblue, I hope that he gets those lovely invincibility frames like tager's back dash had. That was an awesome move.
 
I thought that was the inspiration for the back dash
 
i think this might a bug with Big Band but i'm not sure:
MP Dash Punch causes the stage moving special effects (like the trees shaking on Maplecrest) but HP Dash Punch does not.

not sure how important is it, but its something i noticed.
 
Well this thread is all but silent, I was hoping to spark it up again. So what do people think of the new taunt (forward HP, MP, LP, forward) I keep trying to master it, but its just so damned clunky. Maybe I keep pressing the analog stick the wrong places or something. Or maybe I even need to get the timing down. Either way I wish it would go back to the old fashioned (Forward 90 frames, Back, Punch)
 
Out of the four inputs that were connected with the taunt so far, this one is by far my least favourite.
 
This is my second least favorite simply because of how difficult it is to do on the fly, but I still prefer it over the previous "hold forward" input that was causing constant input priority issues that resulted in the move coming out on accident basically all the time. I don't care what input he has so long as we never go back to that one again.

I'd rather have a move that's challenging to do for a hefty damage bonus than a move that's so easy to do that it comes out at the wrong times and gets me killed every match.
 
Sliced_Toast said:
Well this thread is all but silent, I was hoping to spark it up again. So what do people think of the new taunt (forward HP, MP, LP, forward) I keep trying to master it, but its just so damned clunky. Maybe I keep pressing the analog stick the wrong places or something. Or maybe I even need to get the timing down. Either way I wish it would go back to the old fashioned (Forward 90 frames, Back, Punch)
I feel like it's pretty easy to get this input quickly on demand, so I'm okay with it. Having said that I never played Big Band when he had any of the other inputs for taunt so I have no frame of reference.
 
His old taunt just flowed through, now I feel like the action is interrupted
 
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DeathArcana said:
His old taunt just flowed through, now I feel like the action is interrupted
Good, that's what taunts are supposed to be like.

The whole point of the taunts in this game is that they're supposed to be challenging to pull off for a bonus to moves. If successfully completing a taunt ups the damage of one of his lvl 1 supers (which is already one of the best supers in the game) to the equivalent of a lvl 3, it shouldn't be easy to do.
 
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That's only it's base damage, when used in combos it doesn't do that much
 
It still does as much damage as any other lvl 1 without the taunt, though. Not pulling off the taunt isn't gimping him compared to the rest of the cast, it's only giving you a positive increase for taunting, which is pretty damn good when you can get 6.7k just for doing H.Brass into SSJ after taunting.

If this were a Hakan situation where he needed to have it just to compete, that'd be another story, but it's not, which is why it's balanced around the taunt being difficult and risky.
 
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So I decided to try my hand against Nightmare Marie in arcade with BB solo because I wanted to hear his intro voice and remembered there was barely feedback on fighting against her.

It...didn't go too well. I can't parry worth BEEP BOOP MEOW, and his huge size usually gets him hit by everything resulting in lots of chip damage.
His Lv 3 is mostly useless because she just throws so much stuff out that she just interrupts the whole thing outright. Phase 3 feels like it just amounts to doing two Tympani Busters in a row and praying she doesn't interrupt any of them as you'll have accumulated waaaaay too much chip damage at that point.

Just a little rant. I'll find a way around it eventually since I actually hit phase 3 a few times so I know it's doable, but it's just really frustrating compared to say...doing the fight with Squigly.

On a hilarious note, it appears you can grab Big Band out of Supersonic Jazz. Nope! Just Marie's freaking skeletons.
 
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he has super armor on his specials try that
 
It only helps to close in, but he lacks anything to stunlock Marie apart from Tympani Buster. Yes, I tried j.MK into HK Cymbals, no dice.
It's unfortunately terrible when she spawns large amounts of skulls or throws a Gigan at you since at most you'll absorb 3 hits.

Not saying it's completely useless because it helps plow through the exploding skeletons which I have trouble doublejumping over with BB and she doesn't spawn swarms of skulls that often.
Until you hit phase 3 anyway, then it just turns all nasty. Or bump into grabbing skeletons.
 
You probably shouldn't be plowing though the exploding skeleton that thing does a TON of damage.

On another note - BB's voice needs to be louder. Much louder. He's huge that means you have huge voice!
 
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I haven't played much *as* BB, but from playing against him my feeling is the hp rush punch is slightly too strong. There are ways to deal with it since it's armor and not invincible, but it just feels like it has too much of everything. If possible could the blockstun be toned down so that it at least isn't also a lockdown assist?
 
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Age said:
I haven't played much *as* BB, but from playing against him my feeling it the hp rush punch is slightly too strong. There are ways to deal with it since it's armor and not invincible, but it just feels like it has too much of everything. If possible could the blockstun be toned down so that it at least isn't also a lockdown assist?
Reasonable enough, but if the blockstun is reduced could we also reduce the recovery frames so it ends up having the same frame data?
 
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When people talk about Big Band's strengths (like his rush punches or parries) don't forget about his huge glaring weaknesses. That's the type of character he is. A giant hurtbox, slow movement, not very good air to airs, big recovery on a lot of his moves. Take all these things into consideration before thinking of weakening anything big band has.
 
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The huge hitbox in particular is, as I said before, really nasty against Nightmare Marie. Throwing Gigan skulls at you in particular can be pretty painful, as in my experience your extra size makes it hit you a few more times even if you pushblock them. I could be wrong though.

So yeah, more Big Band vs Nightmare Marie feedback:
- Unfortunately looks like a damage race scenario with a side of extreme meter management for him.
- His hard hitting moves can move her close to stun range, but none of them recover fast enough to reset into actual stuns without burning meter.
- Really, really tight space for taunting. Outside of phase transitions, you can't really afford to taunt. At all. Can be nasty as you want to frontload as much damage as possible in phase 3. Doesn't help that you're very likely to be in recovery from Brass Knuckles as it's probably your go-to for damage.
- Phase 1 is probably the most painful one, as you're most likely to be just spamming Brass Knuckles against her and eating damage armoring her attacks. Going into the air is extremely dangerous as he doesn't have very good damage/stun options compared to what he has on the ground. Also, lots of chip. Lots and lots of chip.
- Phase 3 ultimately boils down to spamming Brass Knuckles -> Super Sonic Jazz and praying she doesn't do anything when she recovers from stun. Tympani can probably be used to open up due to the sheer amount of hits, but pales in comparison to opening with taunt-boosed Jazz. Lv 3 is pointless due to having long startup, long recovery and poor damage payoff.

I was so very close to beating her earlier...but I barely had enough meter for one more Super Sonic Jazz. So very salty.

For what it's worth, I also tried parrying. It was a very painful experience. It isn't hard to imagine that someone who has managed to master parrying everything Marie throws at you is going to have a much easier time against her, thanks to the relatively recent buff.
 
blufang said:
When people talk about Big Band's strengths (like his rush punches or parries) don't forget about his huge glaring weaknesses. That's the type of character he is. A giant hurtbox, slow movement, not very good air to airs, big recovery on a lot of his moves. Take all these things into consideration before thinking of weakening anything big band has.
I figure that is what makes Big Band a well balanced character, but still good at the same time
 
Sooooo..... Dat new H beat extend... Seems super good... Like best assist in game good. Thoughts?

Its completely invincible as an assist (same invincibility as updo and pillar as far as what can beat it, as an assist) its SUPER EASY to hitconfirm since it holds the opponent in the air for awhile and actually drags them closer to BB, unlike all the other dp assists that knock them away. And it hits on both sides....


Right now, to me, its looking like the best assist in the game.

And i actually hope it stays the way it is... It will take some power away from val plus updo, cause every character. Will now have the option of easy invincible assist confirms while jumping away from the opponent... Not just her.
 
im going to keep my BB Assist as heavy punch, it covers good distance for Squigly to charge stances
 
I have been using Big Band beat extend hp for a while now, and match experience says otherwise. It was strike invincible until the first active frame as well, but the first active hitbox has pitiful range and it's really slow. I also found it to lose to a lot of things I thought it shouldn't have.

MP beat extend seems a little better since it's faster and the first active hitbox has much better range , but I was hoping for a buffed lp beat extend, since that had one giant hitbox, and it was strike invincible until then. Now it has the lowered hitbox I was hoping for, but mike z went and nerfed it by making only have a few frames of strike invincibility. I'm not too upset because I can use a really fast pseudo-dp now, but it crushed me a tiny bit.
 
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Afaik the old beat extends had no invincibility... Looking at the old hitboxes there were no white frames, though perhaps since they were only strike invincible? The hitboxes werent colored white to reflect that?
 
As an assist that doesn't matter. It was indeed strike invincible, and you can't throw an assist, so they are effectively invincible as an assist, which is what you suggest using it as.

And after some quick testing in the new build, the first hitbox for mp AND lp beat extend have longer reaching hitboxes than the first hitbox on hp beat extend, with mp being the largest. I honestly think MP is the way to go.
 
Apples and oranges dude. Beat extend is good. It doesnt matter to much which version you use imho... But if there is a difference, then by all means use the one you most prefer. But this isnt like camparing hk pillar to mk and lk pillar... Its more like comparing lp updo to hp updo... Differences definitely... But not huge differences like... Lk bomber compared to hk bomber... But i just think someone wanted to argue i guess?
 
I've been having an issue with consistency in regards to Beat Extend. It's pretty much become a staple in combos but sometimes it doesn't pick up the opponent high enough to follow up properly with it. Would it be possible for the attack to always place the opponent in a certain spot when it pulls them in? Would there be any reason against it?

If it's not as simple as having "this hitbox puts you here", maybe make the last hit before you mash for the extra hits be a hitgrab to make the positioning easier?
 
RemiKz said:
I've been having an issue with consistency in regards to Beat Extend. It's pretty much become a staple in combos but sometimes it doesn't pick up the opponent high enough to follow up properly with it. Would it be possible for the attack to always place the opponent in a certain spot when it pulls them in? Would there be any reason against it?

If it's not as simple as having "this hitbox puts you here", maybe make the last hit before you mash for the extra hits be a hitgrab to make the positioning easier?


I'm pretty sure it has to do with whether the first hit hits shallow or deep.

If it hits shallow (like grazes the opponents skin...) then the subsequent hits can miss. But if the first hit hits deep (like in the middle of there chest or even in there back...) then the subsequent hits wont miss.

This isnt a new thing... It affects many grab animation style moves where the grab animation isnt necessarily a cinematic.

Perfect example is painwheels airsuper... In vanilla it was very easy to hit the first hit, yet miss all the subsequent hits and never proc the cinematic.

Mike changed this by making it so that the cinematic proc had much more range... This results in characters "warping" into painwheels airsuper after the first hit bare
Y glances against them from max range... But is much more consistent mechanics wise, and also a big buff for painwheels airsuper.


The thing i dont know is if mike would want to "buff" beat extend by making the last cinematic hits have more ability to proc from even non direct blows.... This type of thing is what leads to stuff like ken using u1 against dhalsim limbs from fullscreen and then sucking dhalsim in all the way from full screen... So it has to be handled delicately, though yes it seems as if BB could use a slight proc buff... But we dont really imho want him getting full beat extends from hitting max ranged... Titan knuckles or whatnot... Imho.
 
I'm not sure you full understand what I mean. My problem is that the height placement when it pulls them in can vary a lot, not that it doesn't pull them in at all. This causes the ability to combo after it without forcing an otg to be pretty inconsistent. I'm just asking for the attack to always place the oppont in a specific spot when it connects properly.
 
That would be nice, though I think its more of a weight thing. Like, it isn't too bad to not-otg Ms. Fortune or Filia after a HP beat extend.
 
RemiKz said:
I'm not sure you full understand what I mean. My problem is that the height placement when it pulls them in can vary a lot, not that it doesn't pull them in at all. This causes the ability to combo after it without forcing an otg to be pretty inconsistent. I'm just asking for the attack to always place the oppont in a specific spot when it connects properly.


Oh ok... I missed it where you said you wanted it without sacrificing otg... Haha :(
 
Dime_x said:
Oh ok... I missed it where you said you wanted it without sacrificing otg... Haha :(
I guess I didn't really clarify the problem. Usually when I do a corner combo with him, I can get away with accidentally doing one OTG, but when I do midscreen stuff that uses a j.HK early on to actually do decent damage, I can't do a second OTG afterwards.
 
RemiKz said:
I guess I didn't really clarify the problem. Usually when I do a corner combo with him, I can get away with accidentally doing one OTG, but when I do midscreen stuff that uses a j.HK early on to actually do decent damage, I can't do a second OTG afterwards.
Hmm I think this MIGHT have to do with how far away you hit. I'm having a lot more trouble landing throw xx 623HP > 2LP on Double than 623HP > 2LP. Seems tighter in that situation as Double seems to fall from lower after the Beat Extend.
 
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY SILVER POINTS
 
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So some corner combo stuff you can use E-Brake for

c.LK, c.MK, HK, MP Brass Knuckle,
(otg)c.MPx2, HK, E-Brake,
c.MK, HK, HP Beat Extend,
c.LPx2, MK,
j.LP, j.LK, j.MKx2,
c.LK, c.MPx2, HK, HK A-Train, SSZ

c.LK, c.MK, c.HP,
c.MK, HK, HP Brass Knuckles
(otg)c.LK, c.MK, HK, E-Brake,
c.LPx2, MK,
j.LK, j.MKx2,
c.MPx2, HK, HK A-Train, SSJ

Like I stated in the combo thread, I don't think the combo extensions in these using E-Brake warrants removing/nerfing E-Brake. General use in neutral is a different story. I can see HP Brass Knuckle xx E-Brake being kind of derpy and even act as a replacement for parrying in certain situations. If/Before it gets removed I thought of a compromise.

Have E-Brake be its own input. Make the input [4]6 P+K and have each strength of the buttons go a certain length. LP+LK can be the fastest E-Brake he can currently do, MP+MK can be a middle ground, and HP+HK can be the latest he can currently cancel into E-Brake. I would even go as far as suggesting that each version only gets 1 hit of super armor.
 
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What is this e-brake?
 
Basically you can cancel Brass Knuckle or A-Train by pressing back + P or K depending on which attack you are canceling. So you can use it as a feint or an armored dash with HP Brass Knuckle.
 
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