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The Smash Bros Discussion Thread

Nap1400 said:
I think the only thing that might be more Melee-like is the dashdance window. No need to worry about l-canceling or wavedashing any time soon, I can tell you that.
The overall impression was that it was even more tight than in Brawl and I don't see it used much in Brawl. Maybe for tech chases?

Honestly, dash dancing is one thing that would open up the movement options in the game.

Dunno about the recovery off aerials stuff, it might just make different approaches more common, I don't have any problem with that until I try it.
 
No, I meant that they might change the dashdance window to end up closer to Melee's. Obviously it was tight in this build.
 
Nap1400 said:
No, I meant that they might change the dashdance window to end up closer to Melee's. Obviously it was tight in this build.
Oh, I would be down with that.

I'm happy L cancelling is gone and hope it changes up the approach game. The approach game is pretty neutered if we have no way to approach though.

Faster rolls are also an interesting thing people only mention occasionally. I'm not set on them til I try, I don't think rolls SHOULD be too safe, but if movement is more stunted in general, rolls will be a necessity like in Brawl, so with upped speed you might need more solid reads to punish them.

I only have 2 key worries about Smash4. Possible low mobility and possible lack of combo/mixup game.
 
Honestly I don't really mourn the death of the dash dance. Or the wavedash, really. They made competitive melee look stupid and I don't really like the gameplay implications of dash dancing anyway. Wavedashing is pretty interesting as far as how it makes melee play but it still looks stupid to bystanders. We just need -something- that makes playing aggressive more rewarding. Whether that thing is wavedashing or not, I don't really care.
Agree with tomo that l-cancelling was shit, it was a pointless execution barrier. Just take out landing lag, it's not like there was any reason to ever not l-cancel.
 
It's not gone though.

Really fast dash dancing looks much worse than useful dash dancing. And it has very little use.
 
Having played the demo, I can honestly say that while the game speed is indeed increased, the fact that KO speed is so much quicker is what makes it so great.

You can kill enemies easily around 50%. None of Brawl's crazy "THAT SHOULD HAVE KILLED YOU" moments. Fast fall is back and DAMN FUCKING FAST. The speed is huge and playing aggressively is possible and encouraged.

I only have one complain, and it's from the 3DS version
orne_super_smash_bros.jpg

FUCK ORNES
IN THE MIDDLE OF AN ENEMY WAVE IN SMASH RUN
THIS FUCKER SPAWNS AND FLIES RIGHT TOWARDS YOU
AVOIDING HIM? REALLY HARD.
YOU TOUCH HIM? NO KNOCK BACK. YOU FUCKING DIE ON THE SPOT.
THE SHEER POWER AND SPEED OF THIS THING SHOULD NOT BE
 
You can kill at around 50%? Looked to me like it took a lot longer than that from all of the gameplay I've seen so far.
 
gold163 said:
You can kill at around 50%? Looked to me like it took a lot longer than that from all of the gameplay I've seen so far.
Yeah, Hungrybox was surviving killing blows a 110% as KIRBY of all characters with good DI.

Interesting to see how fast kills happen when the game comes out. I doubt it will be as slow as Brawl simply due to the new ledge mechanics, but I don't see it encouraging aggressive play when everything looks so ridiculously unsafe even on hit.
 
I bet move recovery's one of the things that was brought up by the big players to the Nintendo employees at E3. If it's a common complaint then it could probably get fixed.
 
Goodbye18000 said:
Kirby is O-FUCKING-P in this game.
Like, back to Smash 64 levels. Fought a few Kirbies, and jesus.
He's still obviously floaty though, so he should be dying quicker than most characters.

It does look like Kirby's normals have pretty absurd range and priority this time around.
 
Goodbye18000 said:
Kirby is O-FUCKING-P in this game.
Like, back to Smash 64 levels. Fought a few Kirbies, and jesus.

YEEEE. Is his down air a complete recovery snuffer like it was in 64?
 
BeatNinja said:
YEEEE. Is his down air a complete recovery snuffer like it was in 64?
Not complete, but it's beastly still.
Right now, Kirby, Rosalina, Zero Suit Samus and Villager are looking to be the most powerful characters.

Mind you, that's just my opinion. And I'm sure it'll change come release.
 
I knew Rosalina was gonna be good. She's gonna be absolutely nuts at high levels when the game comes out. All of the newcomers look like they're going to be pretty strong.
 
I dunno, Megaman looks a bit weak. Olimar looks so much better this time though. And we still have no idea how good Palutena, Pac, and Miis are. Villager looks strong though, I think he's already getting used a lot.

Which characters weren't in the E3/Best Buy build? (Assuming the build is the same, because why wouldn't it be)
 
>right when mah boi Villager was revealed, everyone joking he's gonna be OP
>When we got more info, people seriously thought he would be OP
>Demo comes out, EVERYONE SAYS HE ACTUALLY IS OP (or at least very very good)

SANDCASTLES.png
 
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You are all begging for me to link this haha.

http://smashboards.com/threads/init...r-list-by-ct-zero.358376/page-2#post-16903948

Top Tier
Kirby - Extremely fast, powerful, great grab range & throws, fantastic recovery and great spike
Pit - Extremely good super armor side B KO move, very fast, excellent recovery and a reflector
Zero Suit Samus - Very agile, fantastic recovery, range and combos
Greninja - Great aerials, fast and powerful attacks and a great projectile. Good recovery, too!
Donkey Kong - Surprisingly fast and very strong. Great recovery as well and a powerful spike

High Tier
Pikachu - Powerful Smashes and combos, great recovery and fast
Mario - Surprisingly agile and has tons of combos and great aerial game
Olimar - Powerful and fast moveset coupled with a fantastic recovery
Samus - Super fast and powerful ground game, Up-B is a KO move and has a great recovery
Fox - Very agile, super good recovery, tons of combos
Marth - More ground based now, weaker aerial game, throws are KO moves, great range
Rosalina - Very floaty, tricky game, great Up Smash, good aerials
Bowser - Fast and powerful, could be even higher!

Mid Tier
Mega Man -Weak up close game, but strong medium range game, good escape and tricky
Wii Fit Trainer - Very undeveloped, don't know much, though, putting her in the middle is safe.
Villager - Very weak up close, slow smash attacks, but good tilts and Up/Down Air
Sonic - No one played him!!! Putting him in the middle to be safe.
Link - Faster gameplay overall but much weaker camping game.

Low Tier
Little Mac - One mistake and you're done for! Can't fight platform camping or shield spam efficiently. Not the best grab range. Super powerful, but risky to use.
Zelda - Her moveset lacked strength, speed and range to compete with the other characters. She definitely needs to be changed up a bit.



Why do we have to tier games based on a demo that hardly anyone has played more than a few times?

I know it is impressions, but still haha.
 
honestly, I do think that the final game will be different and that a lot of the invitational and the demos are E3 are to get impressions on what can be changed and such.
 
Played smash at Bestbuy. I was in line 4 hours but I talked the entire time with strangers who loved Smash and games in general. Had many interesting conversations.

Played smash run on the 3ds version first and 2 matches of the wii u version later.

Characters played:
Villager (3ds)
Little Mac (wii u)
Zero Suit (wii u)

Button layout felt weird at first (b is where a used to be, a is where jump used to be, and the left jump is where b used to be), but it literally took a minute or so to get used to it. Once I did it felt freaking great. The mode was so much fun and looked so good. The Youtube videos and pic of the days dont do it justice. The triggers actually work really well for blocking/dodging. Smashing was really easy and not awkward at all.

Wii U version felt and looked great. So much better than the streams we watched. I played on the NSMB and Pilot wings levels.

Character impressions:
Villager: He felt good to me, but will be tricky to use due to the properties of his moves. Loid rocket is pretty good for covering your approach; shooting it and running after it felt like the better option since riding it and jumping off, which you can manually do early on, will put you in helpless state(I didnt check if hitting with it while still riding did the same). His down smash has so-so start up but hits hard. Down air is a very quick spike. Short hop -> forward air is really good. Up smash didnt have as much range as I thought it would.

Little Mac: I love this guy. Saying he's good on the ground is an understatement, especially in 4 player matches. He's little so many moves go over him when he's running. He's really fast. You need great spacing to use his side be, but it hurts. Neutral B is a killing move, especially charged. He has a great dodge and his counter is super fast (I remember "waiting" for it to hit when I noticed my opponents flying away from me). We all know his up B sucks as recovery, but side B wasnt bad and will often be the better choice for recovery. I didnt land his KO punch though...

Zero Suit: She seems good but will take time getting used to. Her up B didnt feel like that good of a recovery tool and I used her whip more often to recover. Even her down b felt like a better recovery tool, though I played her on pilot wings which probably screwed her over a good bit. Side B is a great tool (on not pilot winds....or most tilted areas, but that's to be expected). Down B is surprisingly useful as an offensive tool; it had a good amount of knock back if it landed and I actually spiked an arial opponent. Her gun is still good as well. Her normals also have great range. She'll be a beast at spacing. The start up on her moves and lack of speed, besides her run, will keep her balanced.
 
Jutsei said:
That's fucking awesome.
But yeah, I think it's 47-51 characters.

There's such a thing as too much. 50 is the limit.

Jutsei said:
I'm only worried about what changes they might add because of the input.
Because if it makes it more Melee, oh no.

But if not, whatever.

If you really don't want it to be like Melee you probably wouldn't even notice if it was.
 
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gold163 said:
Which characters weren't in the E3/Best Buy build? (Assuming the build is the same, because why wouldn't it be)
Yoshi, sheik, toon link and obviously the new newcomers.
Yoshi seems cataclysmically better than he's been in previous games. Sheik is sheik. Toon link seems decent but I haven't seen him much.
 
I missed the Pac-Man Salt :(
 
Goodbye18000 said:
There was surprisingly little.

No you don't understand.
In the FGC, unless you're extremely excited for something you're considered salty.

Mild disappointment=Salty
Brimming with justified rage=Salty
Completely apathetic=Salty
Interested but not really looking forward to it or anything=Salty
Unaware of the event in general=Salty
 
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aren't Amiibos DLC already?

they are a physical content that you can download onto different WiiUs.
 
aw boo
i really wish some of these had changed
leave it to sakurai to give special treatment to his babies like Kirby and Pit
 
There had better not be 3 Landmasters...
 
Covenant said:
That reminds me. Sheik and Zelda have the same smash again. =)

Slightly disappointed, but then again the only FS that Shiek could possibly do different is a carbon copy of Greninja's, and the Light Arrow fits Zelda really well.

edit: EVERY ALT
tumblr_n786ps9F8n1qhbar8o1_1280.png
 
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