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The Smash Bros Discussion Thread

Here's my tier list for the demo:

  • S Tier
    • Everyone playable in the demo
  • D Tier
    • Everyone not playable in the demo

So yeah, come full game that may change, but uh, it's pretty solid imo
 
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Link still feels really clunky. Like you're playing Monster Hunter, except this is Smash. His throw is good for recovery but useless as a throw, his up+B still sucks as much as it did in Brawl, and the rest of his B attacks are all pretty useless. His normals are decent though.

I used to really dislike Melee but now I'm realizing how good Link had it in the older games.
 
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Mario and Villager both seem really good

Pikachu is pretty much what he's always been, pretty good. Ge seems really similar... so probably pretty good. Thunder wavebounce is AMAZING Thunder sweet spotting into itself for gimp setups is also really good

Link is better than he's been. But he's coming from trash tier, think he's still pretty below average

Megaman has some stuff and I want him to be good but his lack of combos and difficulty against rushdown cement him as the worst imo
 
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Yea don't sleep on Villager guys. He has too many ridiculous tools to be ignored, he will be high up as the metagame develops. At the very least, he will no doubt be one of the very best in doubles, projectile character+pocket is a deadly combo.

gold163 said:
Link still feels really clunky. Like you're playing Monster Hunter, except this is Smash. His throw is good for recovery but useless as a throw, his up+B still sucks as much as it did in Brawl, and the rest of his B attacks are all pretty useless. His normals are decent though.

I used to really dislike Melee but now I'm realizing how good Link had it in the older games.

I tried Link. It made me wish I had Toon Link. :/
 
comic372.png
 
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zlCfzSd8cnsBPFb_Yt


"Pic of the day. Here are the results for Conquest mode for players in Japan that are playing the Japanese 3DS version. Their next challenge is to battle each other with fighters they've trained up and fighters made of metal!!"

I imagine it's partly because of newcomer fever that Shulk players beat Marth players. Still, he IS really feeling it!
 
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TheMightyBox said:
his pocket thing takes some very precise timing with actual enemy projectiles

I think you and reality have very differing opinions on what constitutes 'very precise timing.'
 
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Yeah it has enough full invincibility to completely avoid Megaman's dSmash easily when next to him.
 
I'm sorry, when I posted that I was thinking of some very specific circumstances.
In a one on one, yeah it's pretty easy to grab stuff at full screen, wit maybe an exception to Link's arrows and Pikachu's thunder.
But in battle royales, especially with items on, it's difficult to focus on what every opponent is doing and seeing who's about to toss out a projectile and being able to position yourself and pocket it without being hit by someone else, and often times this results in getting hit by projectiles anyways.
 
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I agree with Rel's tier list. Villager and Mario are looking strong, MM looks decent, Pikachu looks aight, Link is pretty Link/10
 
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TechPowah said:
zlCfzSd8cnsBPFb_Yt


"Pic of the day. Here are the results for Conquest mode for players in Japan that are playing the Japanese 3DS version. Their next challenge is to battle each other with fighters they've trained up and fighters made of metal!!"

I imagine it's partly because of newcomer fever that Shulk players beat Marth players. Still, he IS really feeling it!


I was going to joke about another expecting menus thing last night but I decided to not cause I mean Sakurai wouLDN'T DO THAT TO US AHAHAHA
 
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TheMightyBox said:
If Smash 3DS does not come with it's own Doc Louis I will be very disappointed.

All I want is four Docs trying to talk over each other
Each one trying to prove to the others that he and only he invented the Star Punch

Crayolan said:
US Smash commercials!




XP3bMDs.gif

Nintendo always does the best commercials
I wish I had my own personal Doc Louis motivating me
Why is life so cruel
 
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Clawsome Bombs said:
Nintendo always does the best commercials
I wish I had my own personal Doc Louis motivating me
Why is life so cruel
You must fight for yourself. The Doc is within you.
 
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Ruin said:
Kamiya's Final Smash is making you ask your mom
and he auto smashes every character that doesn't speak Japanese or English, even if they're on his team.
 
and his up B is him standing on a 1 and dozens of 0s come out from under it.
 
Are those official Miis? If not where can I download them?
 
Some new info from Sakuraicropped up, explaining, among other things: How the selection process for Smash Run enemies went (and why so many are from Kid Icarus: Uprising), why the animal characters that don't already speak human languages and/or are Pokemon have voices from their games, and why most stuff is returning from Brawl specifically instead of Melee.

And speaking of the Brawl-instead-of-Melee thing, here's Sakurai on why Mewtwo isn't in:
Since being cut from Brawl, many fans of the Super Smash Bros. series have rooted for Mewtwo to return to the roster of playable characters—in fact, he's been ranked as the number one snub in our fan poll of most-wanted newcomers; and though Roy, another Melee cut wasn't listed on the poll, he received a good deal of fanfare in the comments. Unfortunately, their inclusion in past Smash games doesn't make it any likelier they'll return.

Sakurai explains in this month's Famitsu why Ice Climbers were cut from Smash, but he also reveals much more. Particularly, he mentions that it's difficult to bring data over from Melee because the game is so old.

One of the major steps in developing each new Smash game is migrating data from the past installment to the new one, so the developers can save time from having to recreate every character from the ground up. Unfortunately, what this means is that if Sakurai were to bring back Mewtwo, the team would have to build the model, animations, and everything else as if he were an entirely new character.
The same is TECHNICALLY true of other Melee cuts, but given that they were all clones of other characters, they can be recreated with much greater ease than Mewtwo, who would have to be treated as if he were a newcomer.

The same information probably explains why all of the past stages in the two new Super Smash Bros. games are taken from Brawl, rather than re-introcuing popular stages from Melee and Smash 64.
I guess this explains why Dr. Mario as a vet is the only significant salvage that came directly from Melee as opposed to being imported from Brawl.
 
So it's basically confirmed that Smash 4 was rushed out the door to meet the demand for Wii U games.

I get the convenience of reusing assets and Brawl as a base but it confirms my feelings that the new Smash just looks and feels much closer to Brawl. Not really so much in terms of game speed or anything but just in how the game is built. 64 and Melee are obviously very different but Smash 4 definitely takes more influence from Brawl in terms of UI and gamefeel.

I'm just wondering if the next Smash (if there is one) will be built from the ground up.
 
Yeah its pretty clear to me from watching gameplay of all types of the 3DS version that the game was pretty rushed just like Brawl, o well, it still looks like a super fun product. Just won't be a gamechanger.
 
Yeah I call bullshit on that. Project M proves that, no, it's not difficult to bring Melee data over. They've done it themselves! This is the one time where I have to say he's making excuses.
 
LordTerminal said:
Yeah I call bullshit on that. Project M proves that, no, it's not difficult to bring Melee data over. They've done it themselves! This is the one time where I have to say he's making excuses.

Exactly. Project M (Brawl Mod) was able to carry over...

Dream Land
Hyrule Castle
Saffron City

I have a hard time believing ripping data from a GC disc onto a WiiU is any harder than ripping N64 data on a wii.
 
That's kind of not the same thing, though.

Anyway, it's basically that Smash4 had a shortish development cycle and they couldn't do absolutely everything at once, considering the massive amount of characters they DID include in the game.
 
Tomo009 said:
That's kind of not the same thing, though.

Anyway, it's basically that Smash4 had a shortish development cycle and they couldn't do absolutely everything at once, considering the massive amount of characters they DID include in the game.

True but I mean I dunno bottom line is that Smash 4 was once again hastily made. #SESH

(At least in this day and age they can provide DLC so it can become a more finished product over time)
 
>'Rushed.'
>Still looks polished as shit, more characters than Brawl, buncha much-needed balance changes, character overhauls, costumes, ect.
 
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Like I said its not going to be a bad game by any means, its just not going to change anything like the first two did. Different time though.

The game isn't really looking all that balanced either but only time will tell, Sakurai has never balanced the game correctly once though so thats to be expected. 4+ viable characters though would be a blessing, and if we get 10 like some people are predicting that would be insaaaaane.
 
Concerning the accusations of the game being rushed (not to say that the accusations are unfounded) let's remember that Smash 4 has an actual timeframe to do all this stuff in, whereas the PM timeframe is almost literally "it comes out when it's done".
 
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Seems to be a few characters that are looking viable.

It's hard to tell because only some people have the game and we haven't played on a good controller yet, but apart from some obviously bad looking characters, there doesn't quite seem to be any character that is going to straight up shut down portions of the cast except POSSIBLY Rosalina and Duck Hunt.

A lot of players are also starting to doubt whether Duck Hunt will be as oppressive as originally thought, he certainly has fantastic stage control and will be a very high tier character, but he can be smothered if he is trying to rely on his defensive abilities only.

Will see how the metagame develops, so much that has been discovered but not yet fully explored.
 
So uh this might be a little off topic but where's a good place to start learning the in and outs of how Smash plays at a higher level? The only way I know how to play is casual button mashing.

Also holy crap, I completely sympathize with the "stock, no items" mindset now. This demo has proven to me that having items on high in a very short timed match is a recipe for a confusing mess. I like items but when anything you do has a chance of making everything on screen explode for no apparent reason it's just frustrating. I get that it's a demo but man.
 
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I just used PM as an example, i'm just saying that its pretty rushed initial release. It won't be as bad as Brawl though because like every rushed fighting game (SG, Vanilla SF4, Vanilla MVC3) we have DLC to fix it.

@gold163 Smashboards is a good place to go.

@Tomo009 Yeah Rosalina will be buffed when GC controllers are usable, DHD might be like Snake where he is good at first and falls off.

Sheik, ZSS, Villager, Bowser, Little Mac, D3, Yoshi, Jiggs, Sonic, Falcon, and Fox are so far looking to be pretty strong candidates.

If anyone is going to be MK-esque at least right now it'll be Sheik or ZSS.
 
gold163 said:
So uh this might be a little off topic but where's a good place to start learning the in and outs of how Smash plays at a higher level? The only way I know how to play is casual button mashing.

Also holy crap, I completely sympathize with the "stock, no items" mindset now. This demo has proven to me that having items on high in a very short timed match is a recipe for a confusing mess. I like items but when anything you do has a chance of making everything on screen explode for no apparent reason it's just frustrating. I get that it's a demo but man.
Find your local community and dive in, I guess. Smash tends to have a lot of new players (especially right now with smash4 on the horizon) all the time.

You can go to smashboards and look at beginner threads there.

There is a lot of execution stuff you need to get down initially, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't dive into some games to get a feel of playing against players in the game and gaining experience.

Main things to be aware of in smash are spacing and conditioning. The mixups are a bit more subtle than high/low kind of thing, you want to make your opponent act predictably in situations to get hits. A critical aspect of this is controlling central stage as that is the strongest place to be and you have the most options from there. In general being on platforms is bad, but you can certainly use them as a way to move (especially when you get tech like platform wavelanding and Isai drop down) and to approach from a different angel/escape situations.

You should check smashboards out though because there are a lot of people there that could explain things way better than I ever could.
 
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