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The Smash Bros Discussion Thread

People that don't think Link is as good as Mario or better in the demo don't even know.

Fun Fact! - Mario's dthrow > utilt stops being a true combo after the first two utilts. Don't believe me? Pick pikachu and mash downb after the throw. His thunder will interrupt mario after the second utilt. Characters can just jump+airdodge to avoid the situation.

People have not tested how to properly avoid things and are getting hit by things they shouldn't so they think Mario is some amazing combo machine.

The reason Link is now potentially at least an OK character is because of the new airdodge mechanic. Before, airdodging into the ground to avoid retaliation was a perfectly viable option. Now that you suffer a large amount of cooldown, you have to challenge the person under you with your own attacks to be able to land back onto the stage. No character in the demo can really challenge Link's Utilt/Usmash while they try to land. Link has his bombs he can use to fight back while trying to land.

Villager is neat but has a few problems. He has a glaring weakness of not having a reliable kill move outside of his downb axe, which can only be accessed while he has a tree out. Although both of his recoveries travel a great distance, both of them make him a sitting duck and are very easy to intercept.
 
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Nah son Villager doesn't need a kill move because he gimps so well.

Mario is overrated and combos in this game are overrated because they don't really happen at all but he's stronger than MM/Link/Pika at least.

Link might end up being okay but I don't see him being all that viable, or he will have low viability at best.
 
Villager has probably the best gimp potential in the full game, their lack of easy to land kill move isn't so much of a problem when they can easily throw/tilt an opponent off the edge then pelt them with falling trees/bowling balls/slingshots/gyroids.

Villager can also go suuuuuuper deep for a kill then easily make it back to stage as well.
 
Villager doesn't really even gimp that well. Fsmash/Tree are good for people that recover low and close to the stage, but even then its not the hardest thing in the word to avoid.
 
Tree, Axe, Fair/Bair, COLDSTEEL Bair, Fall off nair, Dair Smash Aerial for the 3 turnip UH SPIKE, the flying :O face.

HOW COULD I FORGET THE VERSACE BOWLING BALL #TURKEYS

This man's got options.

YUNG TRILLAGER
 
TechPowah said:
Some new info from Sakuraicropped up,

Is the Mewtwo line a direct quote from Sakurai, or some conjecture from the authors? I don't see anything about Mewtwo specifically in the articles.

If Sakurai said that himself then that fucking destroys my hopes and dreams. :(

Hell, it makes me question if Ice Climbers will even be back for Smash 5 simply because they'd have to make them from scratch too.

gold163 said:
So it's basically confirmed that Smash 4 was rushed out the door to meet the demand for Wii U games.

I get the convenience of reusing assets and Brawl as a base but it confirms my feelings that the new Smash just looks and feels much closer to Brawl. Not really so much in terms of game speed or anything but just in how the game is built. 64 and Melee are obviously very different but Smash 4 definitely takes more influence from Brawl in terms of UI and gamefeel.

I'm just wondering if the next Smash (if there is one) will be built from the ground up.

All Smash games since Melee have been built on the base of the previous one. That doesn't mean it was "rushed out the door", the only Smash game that was rushed was Melee itself.

I just think that they underestimated the amount of time and effort it takes to create 2 games at once. If the 3DS version didn't exist, I have no doubt the Wii U version would have significantly more content than whatever it's final number will be. Technical limitations were also obviously a problem they didn't fully account for; the 3DS simply isn't powerful enough to run Smash at its best. Thankfully, it is powerful enough to fit in 48 characters+3 miis, which is very impressive in and of itself.

What I'm trying to say is that the games only look rushed because developing 2 games simultaneously is a new thing for Sakurai, and when working with something new you won't always get everything right.

LordTerminal said:
Yeah I call bullshit on that. Project M proves that, no, it's not difficult to bring Melee data over. They've done it themselves! This is the one time where I have to say he's making excuses.

The PM team has said that bringing back Melee newcomers required them to treat them as entirely new characters. It's not a simple process where they just up-port Mewtwo or Roy from Brawl, and it takes a ton of time. More time than a team with a limited budget and deadlines to meet may be able to sacrifice.

That being said, I would still prefer they put in that extra time to bring back Mewtwo, as the fan demand is high and he is still close to as relevant in 2014 as he was in 2001. Unfortunately Sakurai values newcomers more than old characters, which I suppose I can respect.

keninblack said:
Like I said its not going to be a bad game by any means, its just not going to change anything like the first two did. Different time though.

The game isn't really looking all that balanced either but only time will tell, Sakurai has never balanced the game correctly once though so thats to be expected. 4+ viable characters though would be a blessing, and if we get 10 like some people are predicting that would be insaaaaane.

IMO it looks like the most balanced game yet. Almost everyone looks viable on a semi-competitive level and a lot are looking to be top tier, which is great.

Probably too early to be making calls like this though.
 
keninblack said:
Tree, Axe, Fair/Bair, COLDSTEEL Bair, Fall off nair, Dair Smash Aerial for the 3 turnip UH SPIKE, the flying :O face.

HOW COULD I FORGET THE VERSACE BOWLING BALL #TURKEYS

This man's got options.

YUNG TRILLAGER

Most of those are options other characters have, the only real unique one is tree/bowling ball. Fair/bair don't have enough knockback at a distance to really gimp, and close range they don't do anything that others don't already do.
 
Well I mean they're available. I'm just saying man he's strong as fauuuck as a counterpick character. ;_;7
 
fair and bair are perfectly fine for gimps, remember Villager's upB allows them to basically get back from anywhere so you can really go far out to land them.

dair is also a really good option and is easier to land in most situations. Villager doesn't have to commit as hard as other characters to really go out there, so these options are actually pretty powerful.

Tree/Bowling Ball also completely shut down one angle as an option. Of course it is match up specific but it makes recovery for some characters like Little Mac and Mega Man really really difficult and for all characters recovering from a mostly horizontal hit.
 
zlCfzSeKZQ0cV-Eenb


"Pic of the day. Master Hand's glove rips open, and a mysterious substance we're calling the swarm, er, swarms out. The amount of this substance determines the shape of your final opponent, and you will have to launch it away in small clusters at a time. The higher your intensity, the denser the substance will be."
 
You guys are forgetting that Villager's got RECOVERY FOR DAYS
 
Crayolan said:
The PM team has said that bringing back Melee newcomers required them to treat them as entirely new characters. It's not a simple process where they just up-port Mewtwo or Roy from Brawl, and it takes a ton of time. More time than a team with a limited budget and deadlines to meet may be able to sacrifice.

That being said, I would still prefer they put in that extra time to bring back Mewtwo, as the fan demand is high and he is still close to as relevant in 2014 as he was in 2001. Unfortunately Sakurai values newcomers more than old characters, which I suppose I can respect.

Considering Sakurai had to remake a few characters from scratch, namely the Fire Emblem veterans going by how much of their models changed, I still say that's no excuse.

And if bringing back Melee newcomers required to treat them as if they were new then explain Dr. Mario. No I don't buy this one bit.
 
I feel like with Doctor Mario they just did what they did in Melee and alter Mario (for all we know he could have been an alt for Mario at one point before becoming a full character) instead of porting the Melee date, which explains why he looks like Smash 4/Brawl Mario more than Melee Mario and has the corresponding animations and voice clips. And I feel like out of all the cut Melee clones Dr. Mario was probably the easiest one to make in terms of the number of changes to the original character.
 
I mean, the fact that Dark Pit is literally so lazy in terms of design that I've even accepted Dr. Mario says something.
 
And I'm sitting over going "Man I really hoped there was a Ridley-X statue in game. Darn." That and, well, yeah, I dabbled in Mewtwo a bit in Melee, but I didn't exactly care for him, ya know? No? Oh well.
 
drnPjyE.png
"Project M Art Tuesdays: Fusion Suit Samus! When the X-Parasite attacks, Samus is left with a radical alteration to her Power Suit. Since it looks so similar to the blue team color, we will also be creating a new blue team color to replace the old one. But that is a story for another time..."
 
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if the project M assholes can give us that beautiful flesh suit why can't sakurai
 
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Probably because he doesn't want the game to come out in 2017 by making all these vastly different from the main look alts.
 
bro the fusion isn't that different
it's not like Bowser to Dry Bowser

it's chopping off shoulders and then making er'thing all sexy smooth-like
probably less work than the likes of lucina
 
It's a whole new model, skin and texture. That's not all that much really, but it does take time and time is money.
 
gold163 said:
the rest of his B attacks are all pretty useless.
If you think boomerang and ESPECIALLY bomb are worthless then lrn2ply scrub.

keninblack said:
Yeah its pretty clear to me from watching gameplay of all types of the 3DS version that the game was pretty rushed just like Brawl, o well, it still looks like a super fun product. Just won't be a gamechanger.
Is everything with a deadline rushed?

keninblack said:
The game isn't really looking all that balanced either but only time will tell, Sakurai has never balanced the game correctly once though so thats to be expected. 4+ viable characters though would be a blessing, and if we get 10 like some people are predicting that would be insaaaaane.
To be fair he's also never had the ability to easily patch a game, so... yeah, if this isn't the most balanced smash game I'd be pretty disappointed. He hasn't set a very high standard, though; the most balanced game in the series is melee with like 5 viable characters.

TheMightyBox said:
Probably because he doesn't want the game to come out in 2017 by making all these vastly different from the main look alts.
But project m did it
and project m came out in 2011
I guess sakurai's just not good enough
 
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In Melee everyone down to Luigi is viable, seriously.

People like to overstate how homogeneous the metagame is. Tons of Falco and Fox for sure, but there are plenty of characters that can be played. A lot that can't still, sure.
 
Horseman said:
But project m did it
and project m came out in 2011
I guess sakurai's just not goo

That's still three years.
For like, one skin.
That was like, the entirety of Smash 4's development time.

Ruin said:
bro the fusion isn't that different
it's not like Bowser to Dry Bowser

it's chopping off shoulders and then making er'thing all sexy smooth-like
probably less work than the likes of lucina

No, the outer casing is an entirely different pattern, and it exposes parts of the underlying casing that aren't visible normally, so unless Sakurai and his team painstakingly made every piece of Samus's suit individually, they'd have to be remodeled as well.
 
TheMightyBox said:
That's still three years.
For like, one skin.
That was like, the entirety of Smash 4's development time.
I would much rather have a fusion suit samus tech demo than a new smash game, frankly.
 
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LordTerminal said:
Considering Sakurai had to remake a few characters from scratch, namely the Fire Emblem veterans going by how much of their models changed, I still say that's no excuse.

And if bringing back Melee newcomers required to treat them as if they were new then explain Dr. Mario. No I don't buy this one bit.

Dr. Mario was not up-ported from Melee or recreated from scratch. He was re-cloned using Smash 4 Mario as a base. The only work they had to do was make a few new animations (Mario Tornado, taunts, idles, victory poses), put a lab outfit on Mario, and recolor fire to electricity and fireballs to pills.
 
Horseman said:
I would much rather have a fusion suit samus tech demo than a new smash game, frankly.
I would grind on that for weeks, tbh
 
Crayolan said:
Dr. Mario was not up-ported from Melee or recreated from scratch. He was re-cloned using Smash 4 Mario as a base. The only work they had to do was make a few new animations (Mario Tornado, taunts, idles, victory poses), put a lab outfit on Mario, and recolor fire to electricity and fireballs to pills.

Less than that, actually.
Mario still has animation for his Mario Tornado (downaerial) you just take that and slow it down, maybe add in a couple more rotations.
And the electricity effects already exist, it's less recoloring more straight up replacing.
 
I've heard that within the actual files of 3DS smash, they misspelled Sheik as "Shiek". Though it's probably just a misspelling, is that important in any way?
 
Dr.Sanity said:
I've heard that within the actual files of 3DS smash, they misspelled Sheik as "Shiek". Though it's probably just a misspelling, is that important in any way?

To be fair, the original initial trailer for Melee did that too.
 
Dr.Sanity said:
I've heard that within the actual files of 3DS smash, they misspelled Sheik as "Shiek". Though it's probably just a misspelling, is that important in any way?
BUT THIS MEANS

ICE CLIMBERS, LUCAS, WOLF, MARSHAL, PROTOMAN.
 
DDB said:
BUT THIS MEANS

ICE CLIMBERS, LUCAS, WOLF, MARSHAL, PROTOMAN.
...Marshal? (I must sound pretty stupid right about meow. :PUN:)
 
Marshal, the Rhythm Heaven guy.
rhythm_heaven_fever_conceptart_uZWku.jpg
 
Nap1400 said:
He did say everyone down to Luigi. Be careful when you try to make your comebacks.

I thought he was making a "Luigi is rock bottom" joke

Tier wise, Luigi ain't bad, so yeah. He's like, 14 or so out of 26.
 
Sadistic Cyanide said:
I placed in a local tourney with Pichu once.
Pichu isn't as bad as people say he is. He's not bottom, that's for sure. Around as good as link. And anybody who says he's the worst has never played as kirby.
Speaking of kirby, apparently they nerfed him into the ground after hbox dominated with him at the e3 tourney. What the actual fuck? I was looking forward to him not sucking for the first time since 64.
 
I'll still use him.
 
I disagree about Pichu being underrated, and I do very much believe he is the worst character in Melee, but Kirby is not much better in 25th.

According to the Smash Bros Wikia, Pichu's one positive matchup is against Kirby, at 6/10.

Edit: According to the same source, Kirby has zero matchups in his favor, but Pichu's ratios are lower on average.
 
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