• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

The Solo Discussion Thread

I don't know if other characters got effected, but the new damage nerf just barely makes Bella able to TOD 1v2 for two meters.
 
IsaVulpes said:
What damage nerf..?
Solo damage went from 160% to 150%. It basically changes the damage needed to TOD v2 from 10k to 11k, and TODing v3 goes from... I think about 8.8k to 9.5k?
WaterMystic277 said:
I think they're talking about the recent change from like...1.5x to 1.3x? I'm not sure exactly but Solos got a damage nerf.
I think 130% is v2 damage, isn't it?
 
Last edited:
Yeah but you'll also be taking about 20-30% less damage from running into Updo.
 
Jason said:
Yeah but you'll also be taking about 20-30% less damage from running into Updo.
There's a certain calmness in knowing that at every point you basically are two (or three if you have really bad footing, or no meter) c.lk's away from winning a match 1v2. I guess it still makes trio's easier to manage.
 
hlvn said:
- Painwheel meter generation is awful, and deathcrawl is pretty mediocre way to spend it. Hatred Install is hard to use without the DHC discount. Most of the time I feel like I shouldn't even spend meter unless it's on a happy birthday level-3.

Ugh, seriously.

I end up stuck with either a ton of meter as PWs supers are kind of meh, or I end up with no meter since once you spend it... you aren't getting it back.

Does anyone have a good use for her level 3?

I'd also like to add that PW 1vteam is probably more viable than a lot of other solos as her weaknesses don't grow more pronounced. As a 1v1, I think she is one of the worst. What solo PW really has going for her is that most people don't encounter it often.

Hard (for me)
Bella - is a hard counter played well (thankfully most are bad)
Filia - j.hp spam is balls
MF - Often considered the best (and sometimes the only viable) solo in the game... so... yeah.
Parasoul - Her zoning is weak vs PW (due to HG xcancel), but her good priority really makes a mockery of PWs bad priority.
Squigs - j.hp spam is balls
Valentine - feels like a better PW (more mobile, high damage, a nightmare close)

Easy (for me)
Double - She has some tricks and if she confirms, it hurts... but I generally have no problem avoiding most of her confirms.
Peacock - is generally pretty easy unassisted. She can't zone you and you hurt more close.
 
Spencer said:
Does anyone have a good use for her level 3?
I don't know if it got patched, but a while ago MMDS was doing this thing where he would activate IPS then do lvl3, which would either hit them for a scaled lvl 3, or if they burst it would reset and hit for a raw lvl 3. It seemed ridiculous, and any IPS spark could probably do it (though one that combos into lvl 3 is probably necessary), but I'm not sure if it's still in the game.
 
Zidiane said:
I don't know if it got patched, but a while ago MMDS was doing this thing where he would activate IPS then do lvl3, which would either hit them for a scaled lvl 3, or if they burst it would reset and hit for a raw lvl 3. It seemed ridiculous, and any IPS spark could probably do it (though one that combos into lvl 3 is probably necessary), but I'm not sure if it's still in the game.

Definitely still in, considering he was doing it on stream this weekend.
 
Well there you go. I mean, it may not get you anything in neutral, but that seems pretty good. Though if the opponent knows they could simply not burst. And in that case the meter may be of better use with her level 2.
 
Zidiane said:
I don't know if it got patched, but a while ago MMDS was doing this thing where he would activate IPS then do lvl3, which would either hit them for a scaled lvl 3, or if they burst it would reset and hit for a raw lvl 3. It seemed ridiculous, and any IPS spark could probably do it (though one that combos into lvl 3 is probably necessary), but I'm not sure if it's still in the game.
That's easy to escape. You just have to burst a little after the level 3 hits and you get to punish Painwheel if she doesn't end up too far away from you. It is nice if people have a twitch reaction to hit buttons when they see burst sparks or if they just don't know about the setup, though.
 
I've tried to burst that set up when the second nails hit me(which triggered ips). I thought that when you burst after getting hit by a projectile you get to block after? Or maybe she's too close for me to block/its not a projectile?
 
The nails may very well not be a projectile (the ground ones). Best way to find out is to try to Deflect them with Bella.
 
Good idea. Just tried it and I can reflect it so it does count as a projectile.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sona Buvelle
Dawn111 said:
To me, I think solo characters should be buffed to match against duo/trio teams. Otherwise, there would be no reason to use solo characters anymore.
I don't know about everyone else, but Solobella can one shot anyone on a team easy enough. With any of the impending IPS changes, I'm not so sure. But still, with any of those changes teams get a big nerf as well (50% scaling on assist-confirm, solo health becomes even more daunting with that and the combo nerfs). Still, Solo's are probably not going to be getting anything more than they have. Mike lowering Solo damage to match the Team nerf means he thinks the scale is balanced (or at least as balanced as he wants it).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Compa, punchy1234, Fukua and 2 others
Dawn111 said:
To me, I think solo characters should be buffed to match against duo/trio teams. Otherwise, there would be no reason to use solo characters anymore.
Aside from
1) Easy stepping stone for beginners (who don't have to learn 3 characters the moment they pick the game up)
2) Better neutral practice (where you learn to utilize your characters tools rather than relying on assists to win the game for you)
3) Bigger random factor (winning games against people better than you by mashing supers)
Which are all in the game right now and the main reasons to pick Solo in the first place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DDB
What about giving recoverable health to Solo characters....(white health). Kind of like in Vampire Savior, this would make solos even harder to kill. Maybe solos are the only character with a burst they are able to use anytime once a match? This would help if they are helplessly locked down forever, like Khaosmuffins was saying.
 
Zidiane said:
But still, with any of those changes teams get a big nerf as well (50% scaling on assist-confirm, solo health becomes even more daunting with that and the combo nerfs).

I think this is really going to hurt trios against solos unless they're very smart about resets.

blufang said:
What about giving recoverable health to Solo characters....

The damage you get 1v2 or 1v3 is pretty big, big enough to consider trading DHCs, alpha counters, healing, and assists. I don't think giving solos healing is necessary.

This would help if they are helplessly locked down forever, like Khaosmuffins was saying.

There are situations where solos are helplessly pinned, but I feel like not being put into that situation is the solo's responsibility, as is getting out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Broseidon Rex and Spencer
IsaVulpes said:
Aside from
1) Easy stepping stone for beginners (who don't have to learn 3 characters the moment they pick the game up)
2) Better neutral practice (where you learn to utilize your characters tools rather than relying on assists to win the game for you)
3) Bigger random factor (winning games against people better than you by mashing supers)
Which are all in the game right now and the main reasons to pick Solo in the first place.

Also, I think given the way IPS looks to be moving, that solo's will receive an indirect buff too (though until IPS changes, it is hardly something we can count on).

One of the major advantages to trio is that you get 3 lives... no matter how hard that combo hit, no matter how dope their reset, no matter anything else... you get 3 chances.

I think minimizing damage will hurt teams more as it will effectively take less life per confirm on a solo toon while the solo will still get to hit for scary damage (given solo v team scaling).

I'd be super cautious about buffing solos in any capacity right now.

@Zidiane

Sometimes her level 2 just isn't worth it. If you find yourself well ahead on life with 3+ bars, the time is so short, that I always feel like I'm wasting it on a 2. At that point, it would be nice to have a pocket use for her level 3.

@blufang

Recoverable health would be interesting and might stop some of the bullshit assist neutral game that you see solo v team while remaining relatively minor to a good rushdown, but like I said above, I'd be super cautious about any solo buffs right now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr_Happy and blufang
Horseman said:
You could still stop her if you had MK egret out before she does it. Block the first beam, then sniper shot. If you sniper shot on reaction it will probably whiff. In fact, there's a decent gap between the first beam and the projectiles, so you might be able to do that without the egret if you time it right (this definitely needs testing.)

MK egret is definitely still good, but there are 2 things you need to keep in mind:
He isn't going to help you advance and actually hit peacock.
Peacock can still hit you.

Conversely, he's useful for:
Punishing the opponent, since if she commits to one of her specials while the egret is out you should be able to hit them with sniper or at least get some napalm tosses out.
Covering an assist that works at long range and eats her projectiles, like hornet bomber or battle butt. Not really relevant to a solo thread, but I threw it in anyway.
Just generally taking less chip damage, all of her really good chip damage moves can't hit you while he's out.


Argus has like 3 frames of invincibility at start up so you can sniper on reaction to it. The beam doesn't pop you up until the last hit so it's worth the trade. If you're quick enough, you can even dash full screen (or 3/4 if you're not too fast) and pick Peacock up for a combo afterwards. However, using MK egret to block the arrows and then sniping Peacock is a very close 2nd when it comes to your best option.

If you find yourself full screen against Peacock, bike egret is your best choice since he will either force a jump, a teleport or a fake teleport. You can dash past the bomb of a fake teleport so listen to audio cues to know if you need to dash in or wait for a real teleport and punish that.
 
Calypsx said:
I never really liked assists and teams in fighting games, I always felt this sort of disconnect from my characters. So even though i'm at a disadvantage i'm going to stick with it. I enjoy solo games far more.
This is basically why I started solo. Still go solo. Will go solo.

BELIEVE IN SOLO
2014​
 
  • Like
Reactions: dragonos451, Calypsx, blufang and 1 other person
Calypsx said:
I never really liked assists and teams in fighting games, I always felt this sort of disconnect from my characters. So even though i'm at a disadvantage i'm going to stick with it. I enjoy solo games far more.

Same here actually. I enjoy playing solo more than team-based games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sona Buvelle, punchy1234, Sleepywood and 5 others
Only going solo for now since the other current eight characters gameplay style don't "click" with my tastes yet after trying each one out. Even if future characters get added that I do agree with my tastes, they would have to possess good team synergy with each other or otherwise I'll just play each of them alone in solo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sona Buvelle
Calypsx said:
I'm a little sad that solo vs solo in the beta doesn't have rounds anymore. It's more like darkstalkers.
At frist I was happy about thsi but my friend bought up a good point, the win would really go to the person who's lost 2nd.
 
If I understand you correctly, this is what you want to say:
- So, you deal 100% Damage to your opponent, who deals 90% to you - He dies (100:90)
- Then you both deal 10% to each other, you die (110-100)
- Then you have it easier because you're at 100% and he's only at 90; you both dealing 90% to each other means you win (200-190)

But.. you win from having dealt more damage than the opponent. You dealt 200% of his lifebar, he just 190% of yours. Wow, how bad?
If he equalized the damageplus you dealt in the first round (so he deals 100, you deal 90) it'd end in a draw. I don't see the problem?

Compared to rounds:
- You win a very close match, survive with 1% HP (100:99)
- Then you get perfected (100:199)
- Then you win a very close match, survive with 1% hp (200:298)

Here you have dealt just 200% of his lifebar, compared to him having dealt 298% of yours - but he loses.

Downs make the game a lot faster (due to lack of screen-goes-dark, "Round 2!", Restart ++ You start in each others faces rather than at midscreen distance),
and Downs ultimately make the game fairer because the life carryover means that the one who dealt more damage over the course of the match actually wins.
I literally don't see a single downside to downs (ha-ha!), aside from keepaway chars with weak defense getting comparably nerfed - which is not /really/ an issue due to groundtech.
 
I think there should be a second or two of more movements between the rounds, to stop players who were killed in the corner being easily predicted on startup (what are their options? tech to the other side of the opponent which, if read can be met with a Filia j.HK/whatever jump-in or tech back into the corner and start the match there) and giving the start of the second round a little less momentum than currently. If the idea is to emulate the nature of team based games then this isn't really necessary at all though.

Other than that I like the way it feels, like how your work of taking 99% of a lifebar before death doesn't go to waste and how comebacks are 30 times cooler.
 
I loved the downs from Vampire Savior, I think this is a great change. It adds more strategy and more motivation to beat your opponent as badly as possible.
 
I like downs kinda, but I think it'd be better if it forced distance between the characters before the next, "round," started. As it is now, it just gives the atacker another opportunity to keep on beating the shit out of the down player during wakeup.
 
I don't like downs at all... With the exception of in arcade mode where they are much more welcome.


I still think that super jump is a huge boon to solo game... They get no restrictions from super jumping unlike teams that can't call assists... This means that solos can easily attack with height advantage from super jump as well as use superjump to create space... If you aren't already doing it...uncle dime says have a go :)... You won't be sorry.
Also, solos are getting much better and better, especially peacock since she has so many forms of movement and reversals, a run, comboable air throw, no more shitty ground throw animation, pokes pokes pokes etc

I really hope another peacock or 2 characters are put i to the game, she brings the REAL neutral to sg, not just this short combo shit that people seem to think equals more neutral.



Also, margherita0141 just uploaded about 10 minutes of solo mde jap and Korean footage... It's really good. Solo cock and wheel and filia all going at it. Check it out I don't have the link but just go to his channel and look up gameplay 50 part 2
 
  • Like
Reactions: assassinninja
Downs are just an excuse to dash up and hit someone with a merry-go-rilla when all the wrong "i got time" synapses are firing.

I fucking love it.
 
*Casually resurrects thread with nearly a year old of inactivity because Solo may have some relevance again*

Beta recently introduced the idea that Solo ratio can now have a limited red health regeneration factor (up to half of remaining red health after 60F of not being in hit/block stun) similar to how Duo/Trio ratio currently does that for tagged out injured teammates although they can potentially heal the entire red life and heals continuously regardless of the status of the currently tagged in character instead. Since this has the possibility to stick with the official version I think this warrants some discussion.

What do you think of this? Too broken? Not enough help? Just Right? Interested in hearing some rational well thought out input from both Solo and Team player perspective on this because I don't want to hear just a one sided bias of a story.

I personally always thought solo needed something just to give them an edge. Don't confuse "edge" with "have to be better then teams" because I'm fully aware of Mike stance on how he prefers team to be fundamentally better since it has more game mechanics involved which I'm perfectly fine with, but that doesn't mean solo should be neglected with a widening gap of competitive practicality.

There is room to narrow the gap with well thought out experimentation which may result to increased solo player exposure without having to blow the whistle that Solo is "braindead", "OP" "Insert derogatory term of choice here" . Yes I'm fully aware Solo has higher damage output/health (which got specifically nerfed although I'm fine with that since assist usage got nerfed at the same time) in exchange for loss of team utility, but both of those advantages are negligible compared to duo/trio teams because combined team health exceeds the solo (Not even counting the additional potential life regain through red health recovery off injured tagged out characters) and I'm only just comparing the health distribution of solo + teams.

Now back to the current topic, I'm not optimistic enough to think that the current addition change will drastically catapult solo into a more competitive viable form because this change only addresses one of their flaws, but I do think the red health regen will be a grateful addition to aide those matches where every pixel of your solo ratio health counts and give you that necessary edge to counteract against teams that can heal their tagged out team members via DHC/Alpha Counter/Hard Tagging besides going for the 1 meter snapback or hope/condition your opponent makes a stupid assist call for a free Happy Birthday.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Can't say much until I play, only theorycraft. I'll try to join this discussion once I do play.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zidiane
Number 13 said:
There is room to narrow the gap with well thought out experimentation which may result to increased solo player exposure without having to blow the whistle that Solo is "braindead", "OP" "Insert derogatory term of choice here" .

I always tought the opposite, that playing solo is much harder since you can't have a DP assist to back you up.

About this change the only thing that I can say is that it won't help much agains peacock since she will always put you on hitstun/blockstun unless you are comboing her.

Also I don't think this change should happen in a solo vs solo scenario, since it will make combos too strong (damage + gain of health while your opponent can't do a reversal into safe DHC).

These are just my opinion though...
 
Number 13 said:
What do you think of this? Too broken? Not enough help? Just Right?
Health alone won't turn anything around, but it'll definitely make a difference I think. I'm in agreement with Brosiden that I can't make any wholehearted statements before testing it first hand, but I like starting with a small change.
 
played long set against @GN4RK
I won 30% more matches than usual, beating him instead of getting beat, mostly because I had more health left so I had more comeback opportunities.
I don't know if we get back too much health, but GOD it feels like it comes back instantly, it's ridiculous.
That buff made me feel more like a fraud than ever.
 
I can't talk about your fraud feelings, but I'm 100% sure teams would lose more often if their characters didn't regen. It makes sense that you'd win some more matches if you regen as well.
 
dragonos451 said:
played long set against @GN4RK
I won 30% more matches than usual, beating him instead of getting beat, mostly because I had more health left so I had more comeback opportunities.
I don't know if we get back too much health, but GOD it feels like it comes back instantly, it's ridiculous.
That buff made me feel more like a fraud than ever.
Did any of those matches end where you manage to win with barely any health? Scenarios like that is what makes the regen matter in the end because I think little things like that is what makes this change neat. I need to try this in depth tonight with a friend. Like what I'm hearing though it really makes it sound like Solo is a legitimate tank option now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back