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The Steven Universe Thread! [SPOILERS]

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"Historical Friction"
Historical Friction
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i wonder what an onion episode could be doing in the midst of a Steven Bomb
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
i wonder what an onion episode could be doing in the midst of a Steven Bomb
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

He's either a Gem, corrupted or otherwise, or something similar to Lion. That's what i'm going with.
 
Or it might just be a breather episode like Rising Tides, Crashing Skies.

We don't know for sure.
 
ONION IS A NICE ADDITION TO ANY BURGER SANDWICH PATTIE FOOD THING
 
i just don't care about Gem drama
I want Steven and Connie and Lion going on adventures
gem drama is dumb and poorly written
i want more steven adventures here in the show Steven Universe

go watch early adventure time over like sixty times then

i'm perfectly fine with selfish, misguided, bitchy, jealous, identity questioning, lesbian loving, mentally anguished gem drama

also guys if you haven't played 'attack the light', do so, it's rather fantastic.
 
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yeah and I want good writing for the gems but there's certainly none of that to be found in the drama episodes
 
yeah and I want good writing for the gems but there's certainly none of that to be found in the drama episodes
Humor me. What, pray tell, is it about the writing for the Gems in these "drama episodes" that you find so terrible? Or do you just not like drama period?
 
Humor m e. What, pray tell, is it about the writing for the Gems in these "drama episodes" that you find so terrible? Or do you just not like drama period?
I was waiting for this.

It's not so much that I dislike drama, but more that I think that the show's format is ill-suited to more dramatic episodes in general. The episodes for steven universe are limited to 11 minutes, so you need to pack the set up, conflict, and resolution into that small period of time. I think the writers of the show do a great job of this for the more comedic episodes and episodes with more down-to-earth and slice of life themes to them, but I don't think they particularly excel at doing this with the more dramatic episodes.

The best "Drama" episode, I feel, is Jasper's introduction. This is by virtue of essentially being a two-part episode that functions as a single package, which I wish the show would use more often since it lets them have a more consistent tone over the course of 22 minutes, rather than trying to pack everything into a single 11 minute episode.

The thing with most "drama" episodes in the show is that they have a tendency to whiplash right into the drama with no particular rhyme or reason. I think that it's something that has worked earlier on in the show, because a sudden change of mood can help establish that these characters can function in more tense or dramatic situations (Good examples being Cat Fingers and Steven the Sword Fighter, in my opinion), but I think that when you try to have major emotional developments in a short amount of time, you don't really get the lingering emotion that such episodes should warrant. You just get a sore neck from how hard the episode whiplashed. If the show used more two parters for these heavy hitting emotional episodes, I think that they could be able to give them the emotional punch that they deserve to have, rather than having to fit them into a more condensed period.

Going back to the whiplash, another problem that I have with the "drama" episodes in SU is how they follow a particular "formula" for the most part. That formula generally being "Innocuous/Wacky Setup -> sudden emotional twist -> lots of angst -> moody lack-of-resolution".

In a show with longer episodes, this wouldn't be as much of a problem, since longer episodes can lend themselves more to a creation of a better atmosphere or mood and a more fluid transition away from the initial lighthearted set up, along with being able to resolve the at least part of the conflict that had been set up. Imagine if the last few episodes of Avatar: The Last Airbender's Book Two, arguably one of the show's most emotional high points, had been condensed to a single episode. The whole ordeal would feel rushed, lacking in true emotional value, and ultimately not as good at all in comparison to a climax that had been being built to over the course of several episodes.

Imagine if the Bloodbending episode from Book 3 of the same series, considered by many fans to be one of the most terrifying episodes in the series, had been only 11 minutes long. You would lose most of the episode's tension, atmosphere, and emotional development by having what should have been a longer episode having its potential wasted by a shorter format. This is where I think SU is not very strong in its writing, because it tries to put episodes that should have stronger atmospheres and emotion impacts into small spaces.

While I think that this kind of thing is okay for episodes that focus more on showing how the characters can deal with more emotional or tense situations (Again, Cat Fingers and Steven the Sword Fighter), I feel that major character revelations and emotional developments should not be limited to this format. This is where my most major issues with the Gems' writing in more dramatic episodes comes in.

I just wanna say that I do love the Gems as characters (except, at the time of this writing, Pearl, but I will say that I absolutely loved her early on and hope that they give her more positive development in the future), but I feel that the majority of episodes that focus on developing the Gems are very forced and come with no particular warning or buildup, this is in relation to the formula for drama episodes that I mentioned above.

I'll compare it to Steven's development that we've had over the course of the series. In general, Steven's development comes in small victories. He helps beat the monster of the week, he helps someone in the city with a problem, he learns a little more about the world or himself. It's little steps that serve as pieces of a bigger puzzle that forms a picture of a different Steven. The Steven we have in current episodes in very different from the Steven that he had the beginning of the show, but the core of Steven's character remains the same. Steven still has the same likes and interests, but how he acts, interacts, and perceives has changed significantly.

Now, let's compare Steven's development to that of another character that has changed very much over the course of the show: Pearl. Pearl is a very different character in current episodes than she was in episodes, but it is less because of gradual development over the course of the series and more due to sudden character developments that changed Pearl's core character. The Pearl we have now came during "Rose's Scabbard", an episode that marked a noticeable shift in Pearl's core character, her now-infamous Rose Quartz obsession.

I call this a change to Pearl's core character because it completely changed how the fandom perceived Pearl as a character, and cast harsh implications on her interactions with Steven in previous episodes (these implications being further compounded by Sword to the Sword). I wouldn't have as much of a problem with these developments if they had more gradual buildup to a tipping point, moreso than being thrust upon us suddenly as we are forced to accept these developments. What's more, we are forced to accept these developments regardless of how they clash with previously established characterization (Imagine early series Pearl's reaction to being told that current series Pearl willingly let Steven potentially fall to his death with no attempt to help him at all. She'd be fucking furious).

I'm singling out Pearl here because I feel that she's the most drastic example of this in the series. Garnet and Amethyst have had problems with this as well, but they haven't had their core character overwritten in the process of their emotional development (Amethyst's sudden existential angst was very whiplashy, but the overall idea fits well with her hedonistic attitude. Garnet's severe stroke of poor judgement in Future Vision didn't seem in-character, but the overall idea that she sees many possible bad ends for Steven/everyone fits well with her protective nature for him) but Pearl doesn't have luxury. She has become the bitchy, obsessed, selfish jerk when she wasn't before. She's a completely different character and it came all at once and it's basically here to stay.

I don't even have a particular problem with Actually Pretty Horrible Pearl at the core, but the real problem arises from how drastically her character has changed in such a dramatically little time. Rather than actual character building, we get a sudden character shift that basically threw out the bulk of Pearl's core character and replaced it with something very different. It's like if "Keeping It Together" Garnet became the standard Garnet, or if "On The Run" Amethyst became the standard Amethyst. It wouldn't make the characters actually any more deep or interesting, but more a forced attempt at simulating depth through drama, which I've already stated that I think that the show is not particularly good at, due to formulaic approaches and a format that severely limits their ability to create truly profound emotional moments.

This is why I prefer episodes that focus on Steven. He's the best written character in the show by virtue of them actually being able to properly string together his development as a character, rather than suddenly giving him major changes, regardless of how those core concepts may be interesting.

This is why I think Steven and Connie are the best couple in the series, because we see their relationship and dynamic evolve more fluidly, rather than them just suddenly being something else (Connie becoming the sword to Steven's shield in Sworn to the Sword was a fantastic development overall and completely in line with Connie's character development and her evolving dynamic with Steven, even if I think the episode was generally poor due to, again, Gem drama).

I apologize if this is less coherent than I would have hoped, because I'm hella tired, but these are essentially my feelings.

I feel that the show's effective drama (small scale things like Steven the Sword Fighter, but also the two parter like Mirror/Ocean Gem, and Return/Jailbreak) is held back overall by a mostly incompatible format, emotional whiplash, character whiplash, and a now very bland formulaic approach to dramatic episodes.

I still really do love this show and don't have a problem with fans that do enjoy the Gem drama, but I feel that the show's flaws cannot be overlooked and must be critically analyzed in order to determine whether or not newfound developments are actually good beyond their initial shock value.

I'm going to bed. I didn't expect to write an essay. cite your sources, kids. brush your drugs twice a day and don't do teeth.
 
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Hoooooly shit there's no way I'm reading all that.
 
TLDR(As I see it, Ruin can correct me later):

Episodes are too short for all this supposed emotional depth. If you want to make gems have new characterization/introduce new facets of their personality, don't cram it all into an 11 minute episode at least use two.

Emotional whiplashing all over the place.

(I personally like the emotional whiplash though. Sore neck but still a wild and fun ride.)
 
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Although I do think they're getting better at introducing emotional depth as time has gone on
 
Whole bunch of stuff.
So basically you take issue with the drama because you feel it's being held back by the format. Well, I am going to have to disagree with you on that.

It's perfectly understandable that you feel that Steven is the best-developed character on the show. I mean, the show is called "Steven Universe." As such, Steven is featured in every single episode, and the focus is kept primarily on Steven. In addition to always being there as he grows as a character, we watch events unfold along with him. Any new developments that come to light we find out just as Steven finds out. And as short of a time period that 10ish minutes might be for one episode, and as much as we'd all love to see the show expanded to half-hour episodes, it was a conscious decision by the crew to keep it short, as it would be easier to keep the focus on Steven. It personally doesn't bother me too much anyway, considering how continuity-heavy this show is in the first place, any aspect one episode just barely scratched the surface of can come back in full force later.

If Steven Universe were any other show, we as an audience would get to know more about one of the Gems with an episode about one of them in the spotlight. Here? We get more insight on a character the moment Steven becomes aware of it. Every new discovery for Steven is a new discovery for us. We never see episodes that are told from Pearl, Garnet, or Amethyst's point-of-view. Ever. And there's a decent chance we never will. Because that's not how this show works.

Amethyst's meltdown at the Kindergarten? Pearl's emotional outburst involving Rose? Those moments were as sudden to us as they were to Steven. Those moments changed how we perceive those characters just as how they've changed how Steven perceives them. It may seem to the average viewer that their developments came out of nowhere, but they didn't. Amethyst had always felt horrible about herself. Pearl always had that love and devotion for Rose. But until those episodes happened, all we saw were small, seemingly innocuous hints about those sides of those characters. We just weren't fully aware of what was really going on inside their heads.

And neither was Steven.

This is a major part of why I feel that the emotional moments in this show are so effective. We are with Steven every step of the way. We are just as much in the dark as he is, and any aspect of the Gems, anything about themselves that they've been keeping secret, that is newly revealed is just as much of a shock to us as it is to him. And as a result, not only do our preconceived notions of the Gems change, but so do Steven's.
 
Personally if the Malachite plot isn't at least partly solved when this Steven bomb ends, I'll be kind of annoyed.
 
actually I do not see any real emotional whiplashing. the show knows when to speed up and slow down for certain events and emotions. Yes i would kinda like to see how Steven Universe would work in a slower pace akin to Samurai Jack with one nice large unbroken action scene, but hey for what SU does it makes great characters that people can place some form of investment into in under 11 minutes that we understand them and how they feel about other characters in the story. Other cartoons struggle to even do this. So yeah I think SU is on the right and steady path.
 
Holy shit, @Ruin . You clearly put a lot of thought into that post, but no one in their right mind is going to read it like that. I'm gonna do you a favor and abuse my mod powers to put some formatting in there.

EDIT: Reformatted and it's still a friggin mess. You repeat yourself 2 or 3 times in that. Learn to trim your posts or very few people are going to read them!
 
Ruin DIDN'T shitpost?

It took me longer to realize that than to read that soliloquy.
 
Holy shit, @Ruin . You clearly put a lot of thought into that post, but no one in their right mind is going to read it like that. I'm gonna do you a favor and abuse my mod powers to put some formatting in there.

EDIT: Reformatted and it's still a friggin mess. You repeat yourself 2 or 3 times in that. Learn to trim your posts or very few people are going to read them!
My apologies for that
i was tired as heck but I had to bust that one out since I have strong feelings about children's shows
in retrospect, I probably should have spoilered it after a certain point.
Thanks for the mod assist though!
 
DID YOU JUST
YOU DID NOT JUST
OH MY GOD
SOMEONE
HELP

I have no idea what you're freaking out about but when I said new facets I mean parts of the gems that we as an audience didn't know and were introduced to during the show. NOT that this development literally came up and birthed right on your doorstep.
 
fwiw, i don't mind such walls of text. the in-depth thoughts are appreciated and it's good to see serious discussion of things like that

If you ask me, this show handles drama in a similar way to Angel Beats but does so much better. Still not perfect, but while Angel Beats had too little time to force you to care about the massive cast, SU has a smaller cast that allows better opportunities to develop them. however, I feel SU has these whammies that feel out of the blue, and they WORK because it adds to the real draw to the show (at least for me): the backstory. the Show handles a lot of good topics related to the gems and relationships in general (which is clearly a theme) but sometimes they feel shoehorned. Again, not as bad as some others, but it's like it finds a fine line between "in-your-face YOU HAVE TO FEEL THIS" and actually well-paced.

Two big examples i can think of are the Ruby/Sapphire reveal and On the Run. for the first... why is garnet so suddenly happy? like, ok, she's been separated for long enough that a reunion could make her that happy, so it makes sense but it still felt unnatural for Garnet. On the run fits ruin's proposed format, with a wacky set up into the DRAMA BOMB. I feel like it's one of the better-paced episodes since the light-heartedness of the No-Home Boys transitions well into the dark implications of the kindergarten, weaning off on the jokes and adding a lot of foreshadowing.

all in all, SU's drama/"payoff" factor (how does the ep live up to our expectations as we watch it?) sometimes feels wrong but it still somehow works because it handles itself relatively well.

two more things i'd criticise about the show:
Rose's Scabbard was amazing, but i fear that the relationship will become more of a gag than it should be. it was a really touching story but it's starting to lose its impact if it's shown anymore often (not that i don't appreciate some of the jokes)
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Second.. the show (as I recall) was advertised as fantasy characters becoming interested in regular life. while we see it sometimes (Beach Party), I feel like we don't see it enough. yes, GregXRose is a thing but since it's probably one of the most important relationships in the show (and thus gets more screen time), it looks like a special-case scenario compared to the other gems who tend to stay out of the towns' way.
doesn't help that pearl doesn't actually care about the earth
 
CHIBIS FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

THE CUTE LVLS ARE TOO FUCKING HIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

also this is how the gems teach Steven. cause I have not seen him go to School ONCE. soooooooo yeah. education lvls low. Poor poor Steven, at least he has a heart of gold... and Quartz.
 
It's pretty much "Teach Me Miss Litchi".
Pearl even has a pretty similar pose.
 
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Someone draw me Pearl smoking a cigar~
 
The only problem is it implies Greg smokes.

He's too perfect a man to smoke.
 
you know who probably smoked
fuckin' Marty
 
It's pretty much "Teach Me Miss Litchi".
Pearl even has a pretty similar pose.
she even SOUNDS like litchi. I had to check Pearl's VA to be sure I wasn't going crazy