We're All Spoiled (Observation)

[keninblack]

Not pointing any fingers at anybody specifically, not hating, not trying to put out a negative impact. Just trying to make give some people a different mindset to help themselves level up, and get a better understanding of the game. So chill with that.

I'm going to cover 3 things...

Training Mode
Steam
Offline (Not JUST tournaments, offline)

Now, I applaud Lab Zero and everyone involved in this wonderful game. It's one of my favorite games of all time and I've put in hundreds of hours into it. They really changed and impacted the way FG's can be played, by adding a *GASP* SOMETIMES MAYBE EVEN PLAYABLE NETCODE WHICH IS GREAT, an amazing training mode, and listening to what the community has to say at the game, for better or for worse. They've been nothing but nice to the fans, and I'm NOT saying they need to change anything they're doing, but maybe we should look at the things the game has to offer, and try to adjust the way we play it. To help benefit ourselves.
Training Mode

As I said, the training mode in this game is one of, if not THE most robust in any fighting game. It covers many things that I'm not going to bother listing here. The only issue is...

A lot of us don't use it.

Why? Well a couple of reasons... for starters, people get on quick match syndrome and feel like that is all they need to play. Which isn't the best way to go about ANY fighting game. Yes, match-up experience is important, and yes... learning general things that people like to pull in the game is also important. However, this game makes you learn a decent amount of things, especially when it comes to fully optimizing hits. Getting a raw hit, getting it from an assist starter, hard knockdown, air conversion, I can keep going but bottom line is you NEED a combo for each of these, you need to know your reset points, you need to know to keep track of undizzy to know when you can go into a burst bait or reset point, a lot of people don't utilize such a great training mode to even on a basic level. Just go in, practice combos, conversions, etc. Until you just feel comfortable doing them. Complaining about how you always drop stuff? Stop blaming lag, get into training mode, and learn that junk until you have no one to blame but yourself.

Than on a more advanced level, you have in-game frame data, hitboxes, a way to set the AI on when to burst, and so on. The world is your oyster, you want a burst bait? Boom. You want to see if Filia's C.MK is safe? Boom? Wanna see how big the hitbox is and where you can get hit during it? Boom. All your answers are there, lets start using it.

Steam

Now, once again. Steam is an AMAZING resource especially with how they're going about it. I'm not saying I don't like it, I'm not saying I want it dead. I'm 99.9% sure this is the only fighting game receiving literally DAILY updates referring to balancing and mechanics. This blows my mind, I honestly never thought fighting games would get here. Playing 3s on PS2 I thought it was simply what you see is what you get. Wanna nerf Chun? Haha sorry sucks to be you. Now anyway what does this have to do with us being spoiled?

Well, I feel that... since stuff can just be patched at anytime. We aren't giving anything room to grow as a community and we would much rather go on about how a character needs to changed, rather than just sticking with it, overcoming the obstacle, finding its weaknesses, and beating it.

Now here is 2 examples with the same character of how the patching is beneficial, and also risky.

-MDE Peacock, lets be real here. Not the best piece of brisket on the sandwich bruh, not saying she's garbage, but cmon she was lacking.

-In Encore she received a slight buff, this is a good thing. MDE had a decently (yet I wish it was longer COUGH) life-span that clearly showed in PRACTICE, that Peacock as a character, needed help to stay afloat.

-Now, we all know about the plane change. Cool, so... with the plane change... its beeeen, 2-3 weeks maybe I don't know. Already, people are throwing out terms "top-tier" or "patch" or "unfair" here lies the problem.

No one wants to give the game time to grow, they want to see sudden changes and fixes because they know thats something the game is capable of. We can't get MDE back, I know this, you know this, regardless if you like this version better or vice versa, we moved on. It's a new game and we have to play it, get over it, adapt, we should be used to it by now. So we have encore... CAN WE PLEASE, JUST KEEP IT AT ENCORE FOR A BIT?!

"But keninblack, new characters are coming out we must change."

Fine, characters are fine, thats swell. Why do we have to change the whole dang system of the game for characters? Just leave everyone the same and put the newcomers in the encore engine. That way...

-We give the game time to grow, see if anything WORTH changing comes up, and apply changes.
-We give people time to get used to this version so they can grow fond, or dislike it. The choice is there.
-The console patch won't constantly be obsolete every 3 months and the PC will be fine too.

I dunno man, I just feel like... just because we can tell Mike to patch the game literally whenever, doesn't mean we should. The game is at a really good balance I feel, no one is outweighing anyone or being less weight than others its all good. I just want to see growth and outsiders of the community to stop making jokes about the constant patches.

Offline

No, this is not a "GO TO TOURNAMENTS OR YOU SUCK" kind of thing. Thats whatever, you know yourself if you have the finances to go to a tournament. We've beaten this horse to death, you have money for a tournament and a lot of free time or don't you? Its all good. What I want to discuss more of is...

You have an offline scene locally, just find it.

I'm not trying to sound all high and mighty, so excuse me if I come off like that... but after the vanilla patch moving to SDE. A lot of people left and gave up on the game for multiple reasons. This happened to most, if not ALL local communities. So what did I do? I showed up to the local place where we have our gatherings (Xanadu) and I just showed up with Winnie, simple as that. We played SG, we asked people if they liked to play SG, some said yes some said no and we played. We kept getting the word out, kept keeping in touch with older players, showing new players how fun the game is, and we got the players. VA/MD had the biggest showing at NEC, the scene has grown into a decent scene with dedicated players and it started with basically 2-3 players. It CAN happen guys. I get it, you or you and your friend are the ooonly ones playing in the area believe me it sucks I've been there. You just have to showcase the game at every session and local you can to get people to either... remember, or get into Skullgirls. Beginner, intermediate, expert, the skill level is completely irrelevant just get people interested. An offline scene helps so much and is worth building so much because...

-Offline play, its beautiful isn't it? No lag, no frustration, its all on you if you mess up, and its okay.
-You build friendly rivalries, and you want to rep your state, so you get an amazing drive to get better and you don't even know it.
-It'll just help the community grow, more people will wanna play if they see a group of kids getting hype and loving the game.

I get it, online is good enough because like I said the netplay is playable (to an extent) I get that, but lets please just try to get some word out there to just play the game. Just figure out where the UMVC3/SF4 sesh's are at and try to roll through with skullgirls with a bud and see who plays and build from there. It will work out I promise.

So yeah I'm off my soapbox, once again I don't want to offend anyone by doing this I just want to see what you guys think about all of this. Let me know guys... lets talk!

-If this turns into MDE v Encore I'll get it locked. (MOD EDIT: Aye aye, cap'n)
-If this turns into personal bashing or "IM DOING FINE BUT SOANDSO IS MESSING UP" i'll get it locked.

Lets be mature.

 

[dekillsage]

Good job, Virginia

 

[View619]

Needs a sticky, especially on the matter of how "easy" it is to update the game leading to players whining for changes when something gets buffed before spending time to figure out how to deal with it.

 

[POS Industries]

Pretty much true all around, though I would like to note that there's also the other side of the coin about the training mode thing. Just like you have quick match monsters that don't spend enough time in training mode getting their execution down to really capitalize on all that practical matchup experience they're getting online (guilty), there's also the training mode monsters with bomb ass combos who don't actually know how to fight for realsies. The game has both an amazing training mode AND godlike online, never forget to take advantage of both to their fullest to git gud.

-Now, we all know about the plane change. Cool, so... with the plane change... its beeeen, 2-3 weeks maybe I don't know. Already, people are throwing out terms "top-tier" or "patch" or "unfair" here lies the problem.

For what it's worth, I don't ever expect to see an end to this sort of thing. #peacockplayerproblems

 

[Jason]

People are going to ask for changes that are stupid and its Mike's job to sort it out. That's just the reality of the situation.

People say that constant patches make players whiny, that they should adapt their gameplan and not rely on the game changing to suit them. Well reality check - Balance changes also force people to adapt and whiny scrubs on the internet are not going to convince Mike to make any changes that he doesn't want to make.

Coming from a background in playing RTS games, MOBAs and MMO's on PC, I'm used to balance changes being made every other week, I say change whatever you want... and if it doesn't work change it back, or change it to something else.

Change it as many times as you like because no matter what changes you make, good players will always find a way to adapt. This is not the 2001 MvC2 scene, this is 2013, information sharing allows games to evolve at an extremely rapid pace.

No matter what anybody would like to happen - The Console Version WILL be obsolete anyway once Big Band becomes playable and it will begin another several month long period of waiting for the console patch.



But I think the real reason Mike made so many changes to the PC version during MDE is that he wanted the best possible patch to submit for the Console version because once its on there its going to be stuck like that for a while. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Vladislav_Paizis]

Even though I liked the new IPS changes in Encore/Olive Edition, I'd prefer to leave the engine alone for more than 6 months-1 year and I agree on just adjusting new characters to the Encore version.

I'd admit that it's my fault that I don't use the advanced features in training mode enough for things like burst baits, high/low mixups or learning to punish Anti-Air assists, but it's because I'm either busy, lazy or trying to git gud at other FGs that, unsurprisingly, have a bigger scene.

 

[Jason]

You have an offline scene locally, just find it.

Not everybody lives in the continental United States you know. Some people live in shitty fishing villages and have to drive for 2 hours just to find ~10 Capcom FG regulars who want nothing to do with SG, to the point where I actually bought a copy of the game for the one guy who showed a little interest and he still never gave it a chance.

So fuck that.

 

[View619]

Not everybody lives in the continental United States you know. Some people live in shitty fishing villages and have to drive for 2 hours just to find ~10 Capcom FG regulars who want nothing to do with SG, to the point where I actually bought a copy of the game for the one guy who showed a little interest and he still never gave it a chance.

So fuck that.

I think he means for the US/EU players. It wouldn't be every player, seeing how some of us don't even have a competitive video game scene, before we even consider fighting games. =/

 

[gllt]

Nice observation, kenin.

Any tips on finding or starting a local scene in a new area you're just moved to, though?

Sorry if that's off topic.

 

[Jason]

Even though I liked the new IPS changes in Encore/Olive Edition, I'd prefer to leave the engine alone for more than 6 months-1 year and I agree on just adjusting new characters to the Encore version.

I'd admit that it's my fault that I don't use the advanced features in training mode enough for things like burst baits, high/low mixups or learning to punish Anti-Air assists, but it's because I'm either busy, lazy or trying to git gud at other FGs that, unsurprisingly, have a bigger scene.

I will say that, although I am totally in the pro-balance-changes camp, sweeping system changes to the way the game is played have probably got to be put on hold for a while.

Character tweaks - Yes pls.

 

[Sydoh]

I'm going to have to agree with Jason.

We had 11 players at CECC (all Canadian) and we were missing Nuuance, JasonS, Bumble J, BackOTheBus(if he even still plays) and maybe one or two other people I'm forgetting.

Those are the main SG players of East Coast Canada. A whopping 15~ players. And 90% of them that went to CECC came from out of town.
I doubt Canada can find a single location where there's any sort of reasonable chance of frequent congregation for SG.
_______

I definitely agree that Encore is a keeper and we should ride it out for a good while. Leave the system mechanics alone and just add characters when they're done.

_______
I've definitely been spoiled by SG's netcode. I won't play anything less than a near-flawless connection on GGPO, meaning any other FG I play, I'm never touching the online, and I'm only going to play good connections on SG because I end up just getting frustrated and bitch a lot.

 

[Vladislav_Paizis]

I think he means for the US/EU players. It wouldn't be every player, seeing how some of us don't even have a competitive video game scene, before we even consider fighting games. =/

I think there were only 2 tournaments for Skullgirls in Europe this year in London and Moscow. And they were both small side events. Finland has a bigger FG scene than in Estonia (Where I live) and people just aren't into the game. I have a Finnish friend who loves the game, but he also has trouble finding people who are interested in the game at FG events. I know a couple of local players in Tallinn that are enjoying SG on Steam, but the community here is very small and there's more players for games like SSF4, UMvC3 & MK9. I know it sounds like a losers' mentality, but I'm very cynical about SG's future in European tournaments. It's much easier to go to Finland for a tourney in KOF13 or an ArcSys game than convince tournament organisers to hold an SG event.

 

[ElkyDori]

Especially right about letting the game settle before complaining. I'm definitely guilty when it comes to kneejerk comments about "fixing" the game, but that's pure salt. UMvC3 was the Wesker game for many months before the landscape changed completely, all without patches.

Spoiled point #4 is probably having one of the most well-balanced FG's in history. You can pick any character(s) you want, put in the time, and become a threat to anyone. And that's not something you can say very often outside of this game.

Oh, and Training Lobbies > Training Mode.

 

[123stw]

People whine about fighting games all the time, even way back in the arcade. You got kids coming in complaining about combos in KOF 98, and expect to win by randomly pressing buttons... Now they just do it online.

The only difference now is with the internet, you can read through all of the whining in the whole universe. Making the problem seem larger than it really is.

 

[Dime]

With the exception of offline I agree with ken.

I also understand why ken thinks its easy to make an offline presence.

17-18 year olds have a shitload of time (at least I, and all of my homies when I was that age, did) but nowadays, having kids and wives and jobs that are LITERALLY 12 1/2-13 hr days along with mortgages or rent to be collected from tenants... Time isn't the easiest thing to come by.


Also, since I don't know where else to say it... And no one will care anyways (rightfully so)

I probably won't be making it to evo this year. We are expecting a new addition to the family... Due June 23rd, and that is right around evo time... Of course my wife doesn't want me leaving her less than a month after we have our 2nd child (and has said as much, in rather blatant language)
If evo somehow miraculously happens at the beginning of June or the end of august I'll be able to make it... Maybe.... If I got game... Which I don't.


:(

 

[POS Industries]

Also, since I don't know where else to say it... And no one will care anyways (rightfully so)

I probably won't be making it to evo this year. We are expecting a new addition to the family... Due June 23rd, and that is right around evo time... Of course my wife doesn't want me leaving her less than a month after we have our 2nd child (and has said as much, in rather blatant language)
If evo somehow miraculously happens at the beginning of June or the end of august I'll be able to make it... Maybe.... If I got game... Which I don't.


:(

But in all seriousness, this is a perfectly valid reason to skip out on some video game tournament and congratulations to you and your family.

 

[Hilary]

I also understand why ken thinks its easy to make an offline presence.

17-18 year olds have a shitload of time ... time isn't the easiest thing to come by.

It works both ways; kids have less access to cars/money necessary for stuff like this. It takes effort for people to show up to shit regardless of their situation/demographic. Following McPeanuts' adventures at Game Underground has been like watching Icky the Bus Driver for a season and a half now. x_x

I probably won't be making it to evo this year. We are expecting a new addition to the family.

Congrats!

 

[Verstande]

No one plays it where I live in Riverside, CA so I can't do much about that...

For the rest of it I agree though

 

[ElkyDori]

Congrats, @Dime_x !

 

[Zidiane]

Speaking of offline scenes, everybody should check us out at Game Underground! Me and @mcpeanuts and @Icky and @LordCeno and @Natezer holding it down just about every week in MA! If you live in the area check out the thread in the Local Scene section of the forum. Even if you can't, though, check out the stream (Twitch.tv/McPeanuts)! We're up on Fridays from around 7PM-1AM most of the time, unles there's a monthly tournament that saturday. If you live somewhere there is no FG scene, or if you are holding it down on not-friday-nights, or if you just fricking feel like seeing some chill ass dudes sippin Canada Dry Ginger Ale and playing some frickin Skullgirls, come check us the frick out! Damn I'm hype just thinking about it, where's my Ginger Ale Egg Nog?!

/Shameless Plug

 

[Hilary]

Speaking of offline scenes, everybody should check us out at Game Underground! Me and @mcpeanuts and @Icky and @LordCeno and @Natezer holding it down just about every week in MA! If you live in the area check out the thread in the Local Scene section of the forum. Even if you can't, though, check out the stream (Twitch.tv/McPeanuts)! We're up on Fridays from around 7PM-1AM most of the time, unles there's a monthly tournament that saturday.

It's probably worth mentioning that streaming is an enormously helpful thing to add to your weeklies if you're in the position to do so. Not just for you, but so that other players that may not have a local scene (yet) can see some matches and get a feel for the game. Even if you're just recording and uploading later, do it and get the word out.

I've gotten a ton of really useful/entertaining stuff out of the GU weeklies and I'm on the other side of the damn country.

 

[No longer exist]

I had a local scene, but as soon as the console patch for squigly and stuff was delayed AGAIN, everyone jumped ship and the community I worked hard on bringing back, died... The people I had contact with refuse to talk to me now for some reason and I lost all contact with almost everyone but Inferno...

It's a sad world...

Also I've been using Training mode a ton now, so it's becoming a lot more useful for me. Also about Offline, 2014 will be a much better year for me to travel.

However, I cannot play the PC version against people because my computer can't seem to handle online properly and everyone I fight lags to shit...so I'm holding out till the console version is released.

 

[View619]

About streams, if the other players say no, they dont want to be styled on and viewed by external parties, slap them. That's probably the best way to let others in your area know that your game is being played.

 

[Hilary]

Nice observation, kenin.

Any tips on finding or starting a local scene in a new area you're just moved to, though?

Sorry if that's off topic.

1. Find video game shop and/or LAN center.

2. Find players nearby.

3. Stream.

McPeanuts suggested latching on to existing tournament/weeklies from other games' communities (i.e., check tekkenzaibatsu.com, SRK, DustLoop, etc) and local events.

They'll have done 90% of the leg-work in finding a place, and may even have some other goodies like a stream or setups for you to work with so you don't start from scratch.

Good luck AL.

 

[Jason]

I've been doing my best to promote the game as much as I can. I made a gigantic 5000 word beginner's guide on Steam and I upload matches to YT regularly. I also send news tips to Eventhubs and SRK about the game and post on their articles but there's only so much I can do when I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere with no local scene and not many chances to travel (Full time job).

I'd be streaming too, but my internet is too poopy for it to look good.

 

[ashxu]

"We aren't giving anything room to grow as a community and we would much rather go on about how a character needs to changed, rather than just sticking with it, overcoming the obstacle, finding its weaknesses, and beating it."


Don't people usually go with the mentality of "If you can't beat them, join them"? Not to mention some people actually give legitimate criticism over what they believe needs to be changed.

 

[mcpeanuts]

1. Find video game shop and/or LAN center.

2. Find players nearby.

3. Stream.

McPeanuts suggested latching on to existing tournament/weeklies from other games' communities (i.e., check tekkenzaibatsu.com, SRK, DustLoop, etc) and local events.

They'll have done 90% of the leg-work in finding a place, and may even have some other goodies like a stream or setups for you to work with so you don't start from scratch.

Good luck AL.

This is essentially what I did. Game Underground was already running weekly offline casuals for Street Fighter before Skullgirls even came out. When the game dropped I started bringing my PS3 setup from home. For a long time the only people who played Skullgirls were me and Garbage, which I was okay with - I believe you really only need one consistent training partner, as long as it's the right person. Things picked up when the PC version came out, that's when Icky got the game, and as the only person in the state of Rhode Island who owns a car, he was able to start bringing other people with him. But it was really like a year and a half of bringing my home setup to Game Underground before there was anything resembling a Skullgirls scene in this area.

This sort of thing is probably not possible in every part of the country/world? But I think it can be happening in more places than it currently is.

 

[View619]

Well, if you can find ONE person who is as passionate for the game as you are and you can find a location where there are fighting game players, you have a shot. But finding that one person can be a challenge sometimes.

"We aren't giving anything room to grow as a community and we would much rather go on about how a character needs to changed, rather than just sticking with it, overcoming the obstacle, finding its weaknesses, and beating it."


Don't people usually go with the mentality of "If you can't beat them, join them"? Not to mention some people actually give legitimate criticism over what they believe needs to be changed.

Nah, people always make threads about changing characters whenever they have a problem.

 

[mcpeanuts]

Well, if you can find ONE person who is as passionate for the game as you are and you can find a location where there are fighting game players, you have a shot. But finding that one person can be a challenge sometimes.

To be sure. It's a two player game so you do need at least one other person, which is not always easy. Aside from myself and Lord Ceno, the majority of our players at these Massachusetts locals aren't even from Massachusetts. They're from one state over. To be honest I think if @Icky wasn't willing to drive like 90 minutes both ways and pick up several people on his way we probably couldn't keep doing this, so we're all grateful that he's willing to do that. I imagine for a lot of areas in order to build some sort of local scene they would need their own Icky, and not every area is going to have someone like that. But again, I think it's possible in more places than it's currently happening, and it doesn't cost a lot to ask around and see what it would take to get a local meetup going.

Something I forgot about is the Skullgirls map, which can be a useful resource to find out who else is in your area. If anyone is interested in local meetups for this game and is not currently on the map, I would encourage you to add yourself:

http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.php?threads/the-skullheart-map.82/

 

[View619]

Sounds like @Icky should be thrown an appreciation party sometime soon. :P

 

[dekillsage]

I am omw with the plates and cups

 

[Zidiane]

Shoutouts to Icky for both owning the only car in RI and being awesome.

I am omw with the plates and cups

Dekillsage going 0-5 with that birthday cake.

 

[dekillsage]

you
already
knowwwwwwwwww

 

[scrubbyscum999]

HEY IF YOU IN DC OR ORLANDO I EXIST!! I am in orlando now and nobody has shown interest in a meet up. In DC I don't have a car, I use the Metro. It's hard to get out of city limits so anyone in city limits hit me up. If you are I the DMV area please contact me. Orlando people, please contact me. I use training mode and I prefer not a lot of changes. We got Encore now, can we just stick with this now?

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[Broseidon Rex]

HEY IF YOU IN DC OR ORLANDO I EXIST!! I am in orlando now and nobody has shown interest in a meet up. In DC I don't have a car, I use the Metro. It's hard to get out of city limits so anyone in city limits hit me up.

Contact. Will try to start going to Xanadu's on Friday's more frequently than used to. Willing to pick up people at College Park Metro.

 

[RurouniLoneWolf]

No matter what anybody would like to happen - The Console Version WILL be obsolete anyway once Big Band becomes playable and it will begin another several month long period of waiting for the console patch.

Normally console patches don't take several months. Best case scenario, the difference between PC and console patch should only be 2 weeks. But best case scenario implies that the testing of the patch happens at the same time of the beta and that it gets a first time pass. Judging by the originally quoted 4-6 weeks, I'm guessing testing isn't going to happen during the beta testing period. As for first time passes, honestly, they aren't hard to get when you have good testers and good developers. Heavy emphasis on good testers.

Also, I fail to see how the console version would be obsolete during this time. Unless Mike makes another huge change to the gameplay mechanics between now and Big Band release, the console version will pretty much be exactly the same as the PC version gameplay wise with the exception that it won't have Big Band.

Those are the main SG players of East Coast Canada. A whopping 15~ players. And 90% of them that went to CECC came from out of town.
I doubt Canada can find a single location where there's any sort of reasonable chance of frequent congregation for SG.

Define "frequeunt congregation for SG". I pretty much play SG for a bit at Foonzo here in Montreal every other week. In fact, I just played it yesterday at the air dasher monthly tournament during casuals. I just wouldn't call it a dedicated SG local scene, by the standards of competitive players at least. Though I think there was a local scene here before, but I'm pretty sure they're dead now.

 

[Shnarfl]

oh boy new meat

I should start going to Foonzo again and play some of dat sde on the xboxes there

 

[AceZTeller]

Man, I tried/am trying. I'm in Metro Detroit, and while there's an abundance of players, it's kind of hard when the C.O.R.N. guys are hyping up every other game in the room (if you don't know about C.O.R.N., look'em up). I could Daigo Parry an Argus Agony with Big Band and no one would notice because Ryu landed the SRK -> FADC -> Ultra 1... again... I'm lucky though, there's like 2 people I can play with, three if my bud gets the console patch soon. He doesn't have a PC built for games at all.

 

[Broseidon Rex]

(if you don't know about C.O.R.N., look'em up).

I got articles on Cornhole. Is that what you were referencing?

 

[AceZTeller]

I'm talking about the FGC team set up in Michigan, kind of (in)famous for being loud, obnoxious, and very unkind. Look up the whole Youmacon Battle Opera fiasco if you want an example.