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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

dekillsage said:
she still has fast 50/50s
Yes. As she should, as every character has, just not everyone's willing to admit that they often don't think ahead that a Filia reset is coming, and make a decision (block right or left). There are a few unreactable setups in this game, and they are not limited to filia
 
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I dont mind her having fast 50/50's i want her to do her mixup and if she gets blocked, to gtfo. Not hey i got my ridiculously hard to block mixup blocked, and now i get to do it again, and maybe again after that.

And i dont know what you consider a fast 50/50 but all those options i gave dont amount to less than a 50/50.

And she still has a super fast 50/50 with instant j.hk, or cr.lk,cr.mk confirm... So I'm not sure what you mean by not having fast 50/50's she just doesnt have cheesy crossup j.hk anymore for basically free, against so many characters, and ridiculously high percentage against the rest.
 
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Dime_x said:
I dont mind her having fast 50/50's i want her to do her mixup and if she gets blocked, to gtfo. Not hey i got my ridiculously hard to block mixup blocked, and now i get to do it again, and maybe again after that.

And i dont know what you consider a fast 50/50 but all those options i gave dont amount to less than a 50/50.

And she still has a super fast 50/50 with instant j.hk, or cr.lk,cr.mk confirm... So I'm not sure what you mean by not having fast 50/50's she just doesnt have cheesy crossup j.hk anymore for basically free, against so many characters, and ridiculously high percentage against the rest.
Always keep in mind it's not free, she had to best her opponent in neutral. And again her j.hk shenanigans can be defended against, and if you fail at it she keeps her pressure. It just feels like no one has taken the time to think about the correct way to defend against her
 
still can't really react to instant overhead j.hk

edit: Cloud you have to understand that there is no right way to defend against filia. You can not humanly react to her resets, nor can you make the right decision to beat dash jump hk when its ambiguous. I have yet to find someone who reacts to iad j.hk instead of reading it. and as she is now she is the only character who restands you and not only has a high/low/throw mix up she also has an INSTANT cross up overhead mix up on top of that.
 
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dekillsage said:
I've had it where j.lk didn't cross me up but then the j.hk crossed me up right after, and times where it just straight up crossed me up. idk

Filia in a nutshell.

Crossups so invisible, the Filia isn't even sure if she crossed you up.
 
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That's why it's a 50/50 if she jumps at all, when she is PRESSURING or in a combo, whether she uses j.lk iad j.hk, IO j.hk, or just iad j.hk, you have to guess. Keep in mind that her combo changes for certain reset attempts, so her reset type is shown in advance. Making it a little less than "comepletely unreactable"
 
i dunno Dekill.

i guess i would have to see you play in beta vs someone else but right now i think filia got limited to a very linear standard that its not worth using j hk as a reset tool at all and that's a problem.
 
Dime_x said:
I dont mind her having fast 50/50's i want her to do her mixup and if she gets blocked, to gtfo. Not hey i got my ridiculously hard to block mixup blocked, and now i get to do it again, and maybe again after that.
This pretty much sums up what I want Filia's end game changes/balance to be. She can keep most of her BS but the issue is that she can keep applying her BS and if it gets blocked she can just do it again.

A man can dream.


Even if her neutral isn't as great, it's not like she's 2-8 against most of the cast or something, she doesn't have grappler syndrome... Her having to get in is a valid point but I don't think it means she gets a free pass to unreactable set ups over and over once she gets in.
 
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Kinda need word from Mike if the sj IAD HK is an oversight or not, if this is just about dash jump HK stuff that's one thing if jHK is not supposed to be a cross up period that's another
 
cloudKing211 said:
That's why it's a 50/50 if she jumps at all, when she is PRESSURING or in a combo, whether she uses j.lk iad j.hk, IO j.hk, or just iad j.hk, you have to guess. Keep in mind that her combo changes for certain reset attempts, so her reset type is shown in advance. Making it a little less than "comepletely unreactable"

That's not 50/50 though. That's low, high, crossup high, throw. The main reason that people aren't wrecked more by filia is that most filia players are very consistent in their pressure and you can predict it.
 
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The thing about filia is it isnt just about blocking her. Which is hard enough as it is. Its also about pushblocking her correctly and she has a number of pushblock baits that have to be defended against and reacted to, perfectly while also blocking perfectly.

Her ability to say fuck yo pushblock is a ridiculously good ability, that combines with her iad attacks to make defending against her, not just a chore but near impossible. I never had problems with this because i thought her neutral sucked and therefor she became rigged once she got in... But now that i know about how good her air to air dash jump j.hp is and how well it allows her to advance on characters especially with an assist backing her... It is rather dumb. You have a character that controls basically everywhere and the only openings i get are counter hitting her in neutral. If i block anything I'm basically opened for near free and outprioritizing j.hp is a crapshoot, at least with painwheel.

And i know I'm not the only person that is an almost free open against filia, i see it all the time. Watch any sonic fox games, etc etc. And then realize that filias of near that calibur are all over the world and you dont have to travel far to meet one.
 
alexpi said:
That's not 50/50 though. That's low, high, crossup high, throw. The main reason that people aren't wrecked more by filia is that most filia players are very consistent in their pressure and you can predict it.
The thing is she can't go from a standing and without jumping do all of those options it has to go like this: drops combo and lands, she can either do low/throw (50/50) or jump. A jump is not an attack so that situation is not a 33/33/33 just a simple 50/50. If she jumps, however, she gets more options she can: air grab whiff to low/throw, instant overhead, or iad j.hk overall a 33/33/33. This is due to the added movement of her iad. If anything a better change would be no iad if j.hk is blocked, now that I think about it
 
The big difference between health regen on teams and health regen on solos is that in teams, the health regen is affected by the players and the decisions they make (Tagging, assist calls, outtakes, dhcs etc). The mechanic serves a pretty clear purpose here.

When a solo player regains health in the current beta, the only factor in whether or not they actually get to recover it is if they die before it's fully recovered. It doesn't really change how they play, and the only effective difference seems to be that they get more total health. A slower recovery speed would certainly make it more noticable, and maybe encourage sitting back for a while, but the health itself is still just as guaranteed (Outside of dying early)
 
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zeknife said:
The big difference between health regen on teams and health regen on solos is that in teams, the health regen is affected by the players and the decisions they make (Tagging, assist calls, outtakes, dhcs etc). The mechanic serves a pretty clear purpose here.

When a solo player regains health in the current beta, the only factor in whether or not they actually get to recover it is if they die before it's fully recovered. It doesn't really change how they play, and the only effective difference seems to be that they get more total health. A slower recovery speed would certainly make it more noticable, and maybe encourage sitting back for a while, but the health itself is still just as guaranteed (Outside of dying early)

I think this is true to some extent. It is a preventable bit of health regen though. If you get locked down, you're not getting shit back. Whereas even a risky as hell raw tag can often times pay off since once the point is off screen, there is nothing you can do to prevent health regen short of killing the new point as fast as possible... which is not always easy as a solo since you don't have the neutral momentum.

Not to mention that while there are all kinds of cool stuff you can do with assists, a lot of it comes down to "put them in combo and DHC to save the point" which is hardly much of a choice depending on the amount of red life left (Lots left? DHC. Little left? Do what you can.)

More important than affecting how the solo will play, is that in theory it will change the way the opponent plays which is also probably good. Standard play vs a solo seems to be to back off and let them make risky plays trying to get past the assist wall. Like I said above, the momentum is in the hands of the team, and hopefully this is a small change toward evening that out. I think it could potentially stop teams from backing off and forcing the solo into making the risky first move at neutral... at least part of the time.

That said, if the numbers are too high or it is giving too much life, that is an easy adjustment.
 
cloudKing211 said:
The thing is she can't go from a standing and without jumping do all of those options it has to go like this: drops combo and lands, she can either do low/throw (50/50) or jump. A jump is not an attack so that situation is not a 33/33/33 just a simple 50/50. If she jumps, however, she gets more options she can: air grab whiff to low/throw, instant overhead, or iad j.hk overall a 33/33/33. This is due to the added movement of her iad. If anything a better change would be no iad if j.hk is blocked, now that I think about it

but you can j.hk instantly from a jump. It can't be compared to someone like parasoul or squigly because while they do have overheads they do NOT have instant overhead cross ups. Filia does not need to restand you to do this either, she can do it while you're still in the air about to land and hit you as you're landing while you down back and this set up is bs idk why its a thing pls nerferino
 
zeknife said:
The big difference between health regen on teams and health regen on solos is that in teams, the health regen is affected by the players and the decisions they make (Tagging, assist calls, outtakes, dhcs etc). The mechanic serves a pretty clear purpose here.

When a solo player regains health in the current beta, the only factor in whether or not they actually get to recover it is if they die before it's fully recovered. It doesn't really change how they play, and the only effective difference seems to be that they get more total health. A slower recovery speed would certainly make it more noticable, and maybe encourage sitting back for a while, but the health itself is still just as guaranteed (Outside of dying early)

When's Pikmario beta kumite

When's Outlaw Spike beta kumite
 
I think something people forget about solos is that no matter how much damage they take, they always have the same damage potential with regard to non metered combos and even the same neutral.
They also dont have to deal with incoming mixups.

Whereas a teams damage potential goes down as it loses dhc and the ability to level 1 to level 3 dhc. And a teams neutral ability goes down as it loses assists.

This isnt saying that solos are as strong as teams, this is saying that solos do have benefits to playing them besides the obvious up in damage. If this mechanic makes it in to stay i hope it is better balanced. There should be a bigger cap on how much total health a solo can regen as well as a balance as to how fast solos regen said health.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
i dunno Dekill.

i guess i would have to see you play in beta vs someone else but right now i think filia got limited to a very linear standard that its not worth using j hk as a reset tool at all and that's a problem.
The crossup still works off a super jump.

And on solo health regen, 60f is way too short, especially since you can regen the max amount possible from landing a simple BnB.
 
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My thoughts on the brief time I had with some of the changes.

- Personally feel like undizzy is kind of too slow now.
- I have even less reason to end my combos with a sweep.
- I'm kind of indifferent towards the Filia changes.
- Blocking SSJ even though I wasn't blocking or pressing buttons pre-flash made me smile.
- Didn't play as/against solos to really have an opinion on the life regen.
 
KhaosMuffins said:
The crossup still works off a super jump.
to also add it works on only ONE reset the same way.

super jump is just an execution barrier which i wouldn't mind....until you face the fact that now the reset is tad too weak. the more frames are given to the opponent that encourages assist calls that always beat it. if you want to add in assist you have to wait a bit while you're on the ground and then call.
 
you still got iad j.lk j.hk which sometimes crosses up

It's not like filia lost her millions of cross ups anyway

I like this solo change it's almost like having a second wind
 
Make a new one.

edit: It's only been a change for one day. Just roll with it for a bit then give an opinion.

*cough*fortunenerfcomplaintsandfukuanerfcomplaintswerejustlikethis*cough*

EDIT 2: Then I re-read the patch notes

"Filia's j.HK is harder/impossible to get an ambiguous crossup with by dash-jumping forward, and causes techable knockdown if not chained into. Should not affect combos or most other uses of j.HK except trying for crossups."

yeah that seems like an issue if you can't do your combo although I think meant unless you do it raw in which case sucks to be you
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
to also add it works on only ONE reset the same way.

super jump is just an execution barrier which i wouldn't mind....until you face the fact that now the reset is tad too weak. the more frames are given to the opponent that encourages assist calls that always beat it. if you want to add in assist you have to wait a bit while you're on the ground and then call.
You still have to guess left/right. It's not as good, yes, but it's not weak at all. If the opponent calls an assist but they get hit anyways then will RIP them.

Stuff said:
you still got iad j.lk j.hk which sometimes crosses up

It's not like filia lost her millions of cross ups anyway
Crossup protection kicks in if the j.HK crosses up, doesn't it? I tested that today but maybe my timing was off? But yeah to the rest of that.
 
dekillsage said:
but you can j.hk instantly from a jump. It can't be compared to someone like parasoul or squigly because while they do have overheads they do NOT have instant overhead cross ups. Filia does not need to restand you to do this either, she can do it while you're still in the air about to land and hit you as you're landing while you down back and this set up is bs idk why its a thing pls nerferino
Im not comparing filias tools with any other character, i'm solely talking about them on their own merit. The reason why they don't have them is because they have other ridiculous tools, and honestly can we not give too many things to one character (ring any bells).
Now can anyone tell me if superjump iad j.hk still crosses up, and does upback cause the techable knockdown?
 
KhaosMuffins said:
stuff
Incorrect. cause the problem arrises after everyone starts doing this mess and then they realize..."LOL I CAN JUMP INTO THE JHK AND TECH FOR FREEEEEEEE"

in which case the goal is to get hit by the jhk? lolwtf.
for now i wouldn't even recommend j hk as a reset AT ALL
 
Dreamepitaph said:
Incorrect. cause the problem arrises after everyone starts doing this mess and then they realize..."LOL I CAN JUMP INTO THE JHK AND TECH FOR FREEEEEEEE"

in which case the goal is to get hit by the jhk? lolwtf.
for now i wouldn't even recommend j hk as a reset AT ALL
Then Filia players get smart and start getting you to want to jump so they can go low or just hit you out of jump start up. That is a valid point, though, I won't lie.
 
Its been said multiple times sj iad j.hk still crosses up
 
from what I've noticed j.lk does the same thing j.hk does except the cross thing doesn't apply to j.lk but I dunno I don't play filia

edit: you can also delay a bit then j.hk that crosses up you're just not allowed to do the magical crossup or non crossup
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
Incorrect. cause the problem arrises after everyone starts doing this mess and then they realize..."LOL I CAN JUMP INTO THE JHK AND TECH FOR FREEEEEEEE"

in which case the goal is to get hit by the jhk? lolwtf.
for now i wouldn't even recommend j hk as a reset AT ALL


That is when you start doing lows, like every other character, or doing an airthrow, or making them think you will go for an airthrow and frame trapping their airthrow, or knowing that they know that you might go low to stop the jump so they down back, but hey wait a minute, you dont know whether they will just down back or or go high block because they are anticipating somehthing, so you take the option that beats both high and low blocks, filias throw.

Which is how the thinking SHOULD go, on resets, with some reversal/anti reversal thinking in there, instead of just instant high or crossup high. Which is where many of filias resets are.

The point of this is to make filias reset game more cerebral than it currently is. And yes that is a nerf, but its a good one for the game overall.
 
I'm surprised 80% of the talk in this thread is about Filia and Annie rather than the undizzy decay and ground tech changes.

Come on, guys. Filia NEEDED to get the bat in some way or another, and I honestly think THIS TIME they got it right, even though I believe the techable j.hk starter is going too far. I just don't like the idea of giving people reasons to upback.

And also, I would sincerely like to hear the reasoning behind the ground tech undizzy thing specifically. I know pressure can be relentless in some cases, but the presence of okizeme in this game is near zero, and I feel like Mike wants us to do stuff with it, right? What about that old beta air Gregor change?

Safejumps and... things after a sweep are scarcely used. I understand the need to halt aggression, but this one change is affecting things it shouldn't, in my honest opinion.
 
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I like the ground bounce only taking away 50%
 
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noaa said:
I'm surprised 80% of the talk in this thread is about Filia and Annie rather than the undizzy decay and ground tech changes.
You either love Filia for her BS or hate her for her BS.
 
Dime_x said:
I think something people forget about solos is that no matter how much damage they take, they always have the same damage potential with regard to non metered combos and even the same neutral.
They also dont have to deal with incoming mixups.

Whereas a teams damage potential goes down as it loses dhc and the ability to level 1 to level 3 dhc. And a teams neutral ability goes down as it loses assists.

This isnt saying that solos are as strong as teams, this is saying that solos do have benefits to playing them besides the obvious up in damage. If this mechanic makes it in to stay i hope it is better balanced. There should be a bigger cap on how much total health a solo can regen as well as a balance as to how fast solos regen said health.

Isn't it higher as a result? Assist combos are hitting 10k at neutral. Not to mention that you can always boost the damage with a DHC. So cases of "will it kill" get a little bit higher.

Finally, the same could be said for solo health (before this change). If a point manages to tag out, solos' health advantage dwindles because solo only ever gets what it gets. Given enough time the damage/health ratio actually swings back into the teams' favor meaning given enough time, a solo actually loses the advantage of going solo.
 
I like the whole "you can block supers post flash even if you walked when you still got undizzy" thing. It doesn't seem to affect the way I play much and it's nice that I can block even after walking forward after doing a reset. So that's really neat.
 
ashxu said:
You either love Filia for her BS or hate her for her BS.
I play her, and yes. I overuse j.hk as a crossup tool. And yes again, I'm hurt by this patch.
But I know I can work around it. She has tons of other stuff. Yes, not reliable and easy and universal as IAD j.hk was but she still can work with what she has pretty absurdly.
 
noaa said:
Come on, guys. Filia NEEDED to get the bat in some way or another
what the fuck? no seriously why filia and not parasoul, cerebella, valentine, peacock, or eliza?
 
Broken Loose said:
what the fuck? no seriously why filia and not parasoul, cerebella, valentine, peacock, or eliza?
Eliza is pretty fine right now though. . . what is wrong with her?
 
Arcana said:
Eliza is pretty fine right now though. . . what is wrong with her?
That's literally a statement I could apply to Filia. She wasn't on every team during Evo top 4, nobody's every vocalized wanting her to get nerfed prior to this except bad players, and her neutral isn't good enough to excuse hurting her linear pressure game even more.

(also lmfao at anybody actually recommending filia iad throw while in Getting Punched range anytime except when you have an assist actively covering you)
 
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