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Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

Is the change of Parasoul j.lp always causing small tear detonations supposed to be in addition to the original one where tears placed immediately after jumping will be smaller? You still get small explosions for doing, for example, tk tear > j.hp
 
Sorry if I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but I've not really heard any stance on the matter. Is there any hope of having L Bang do something to make it not a free counterhit if it taps someone that's even slightly off the ground? Unless you spend meter after the hit to capitalize on the bit of hitstun remaining, your combo ends and their CH combo begins.
I'm fine with it being a risky countercall to grabs in neutral and being generally useless in a combo if a stagger has already been used, but I'm not fine with it being minus enough when it actually hits someone that they can retaliate without recourse. I don't know how tightly interwoven the Diamond Deflector's fall-into-stagger code is to reapply it here without a hitch since I know Cerebella is able to stagger multiple times in a single combo with it, but even something as simple as tripping an airborne target like Peacock's cMK already does may be sufficient to this predicament.
 
Still no hope in fixing the copter - dynamo turn around thing in the corner? I still die a little inside everytime I go the wrong way and the foe drops out, getting me killed for it.
I haven't had that happen to me since the copter change.
 
Can Robo 2LP gain one more active frame? Its low active frames make it hard to use as an anti air against stuff like BB j.LK, FU j.HK, and other jumpins since it often just ends up trading. Using L Danger raw in those situations works but is a huge risk since they can just land and not do anything and you die.
st. fp is your best friend against jump in attacks
 
Just played against Peacock. I realized Parasoul soldier might be better with faster cool down and if Parasoul gets hit during bike, I think he should speed up off the screen instead of slow down. When other characters projectiles get hit, they typically disappear and they can fire again right away. Parasoul seems like she has to wait double the time.
 
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Re: Headless Fortune Changes
So far I am liking the headless change for Fortune. Not having to hit the button again to get the move is nice and being able to make it do nothing when you want to is also nice. I thought I would have more issues with 2HP = no action because I thought I remembered times where I'd want 2HP to do headbutt, but from messing around in training mode with it, I haven't run into the issue. 5HP = headbutt and 2HP = nothing is nice for when you want to walk the head and then do nothing. Feels like it's more control than just holding it for X Frames and hoping you timed it right.

Unrelated to headless changes
There is one peeve I have with fortune's 5LK: because it moves her back a bit, you can accidentally kara throw with it and then end up missing your throw even if you would have otherwise hit with it if you didn't get the kara. Also, it never really helps combos to have her move back like that on her 5LK anyway.
Can we make Fortune's 5LK stay in place instead of move back a bit for that first part?

Also, would it be too good to allow nom and sneeze as assists?
 
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I would still like item drop to not send you to stage 5 after the first ground chain and trigger IPS when the opponents undizzy is full
 
Can Robo 2LP gain one more active frame? Its low active frames make it hard to use as an anti air against stuff like BB j.LK, FU j.HK, and other jumpins since it often just ends up trading.
It's disjoint. If it's trading you're doing it late, in which case an extra active frame will not solve anything.
(Also, no.)

Using L Danger raw in those situations works but is a huge risk since they can just land and not do anything and you die.
OH NO, RISKS!

I would still like item drop to not send you to stage 5 after the first ground chain and trigger IPS when the opponents undizzy is full
Item drop triggers IPS when undizzy is full because otherwise Argus Item Argus (and now, Argus Item Lenny Argus (call item) Argus Item Argus) would be possible at full undizzy. Nothing about that is changing.

There is one peeve I have with fortune's 5LK: because it moves her back a bit, you can accidentally kara throw with it and then end up missing your throw even if you would have otherwise hit with it if you didn't get the kara. Also, it never really helps combos to have her move back like that on her 5LK anyway.
Can we make Fortune's 5LK stay in place instead of move back a bit for that first part?
Yeah, I can make it stay in place until you can't kara-cancel it anymore, but it moves because of the animation, so I can't make it stay in place the whole time.

Nom as an assist is too good. Sneeze is probably okay BUT neither of them has assists because they don't have commands when head-on. What would you get, just s.HP?

Just played against Peacock. I realized Parasoul soldier might be better with faster cool down
Sure, but since he blocks ALL frontal projectiles now that's why he has longer cooldown. :^P It's more than enough for tears and a sniper.

and if Parasoul gets hit during bike, I think he should speed up off the screen instead of slow down. When other characters projectiles get hit, they typically disappear and they can fire again right away. Parasoul seems like she has to wait double the time.
This I think I also agree with, Bike ain't that great. I might not be able to implement it with the art we have, though.
 
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Not sure if anyone has spotted this, but after pressing the reload state button sometimes (which was saved mid combo) the damage display turns into a negative number, and as you keep doing damage, it goes all the way to 0 then back up positively.
 
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This I think I also agree with, Bike ain't that great. I might not be able to implement it with the art we have, though.
Hmm, maybe let the biker come out unless parasoul gets hit during the actual summon? I don't know the number of frames in between her getting hit and him being activated to actually come out and grab or not, but maybe shorten that window if artwork won't allow speed up? There are times I feel like I call bike and get hit pretty late with bullets or some projectile and he comes out slow even though I clearly called him much earlier than my opponent hitting me. Or have a reverse input charge and the bike comes out from the back end of the screen avoiding projectiles? I doubt anyone besides me would like that though :P
 
Hmm, maybe let the biker come out unless parasoul gets hit during the actual summon?
That would be a nerf.
She summons him if she is interrupted out of call past a certain point.

Or have a reverse input charge and the bike comes out from the back end of the screen avoiding projectiles? I doubt anyone besides me would like that though :P
Extremely unfair vs zoners after already getting M Soldier buff.
It also already avoids projectiles, it goes straight through them so not sure what that means :s
 
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Someone mentioned this awhile back and I thought it was a good idea for Peacock. When Peacock has her opponent in the corner and grabs them, on some characters she can follow up with LK bomb into s.lp for a meterless conversion but on some other characters she can't. Perhaps the hitbox on the bomb can be extended a little closer to her or such? I mean sure, she can item drop (hold) argus for a more consistent combo after throw and that's normally what I go for because of the inconsistency issue, but it's a thought. I even tested it out.

If Peacock's opponent has their back to the corner and is grab bagged, lk george completely whiffs on these characters:
~Squigly, Ms. Fortune, Peacock, Filia/Fukua, Parasoul, Robo

When Peacock's back is to the corner and she does a backwards throw, she can get lk george on everyone, but some bigger characters seem to get hit too quickly by the bomb and the s.lp is impossible to connect. Not sure if anything can be done about it, but just thought it interesting and figured I'd share. These are the characters that s.lp won't connect on:

~Double, Beowulf Eliza, BB, Painwheel
 
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Nom as an assist is too good. Sneeze is probably okay BUT neither of them has assists
because they don't have commands when head-on. What would you get, just s.HP?
What about head roll? Since sneeze is a special, it kind of makes sense to also get a special with head-on.
It's also nice that this would give her a headless assist option without needing to go point to "activate" it.
The only assist she has right now that lets her stay as non-point is head roll assist on its own and that only hits once every two calls.
 
Someone mentioned this awhile back and I thought it was a good idea for Peacock. When Peacock has her opponent in the corner and grabs them, on some characters she can follow up with LK bomb into s.lp for a meterless conversion but on some other characters she can't. Perhaps the hitbox on the bomb can be extended a little closer to her or such?
It's not super easy to make consistent, but I can check.
...tried with dev tools, how are you hitting s.LP on like, anyone? When do you throw the bomb to get it?

When Peacock's back is to the corner and she does a backwards throw, she can get lk george on everyone, but some bigger characters seem to get hit too quickly by the bomb and the s.lp is impossible to connect. Not sure if anything can be done about it, but just thought it interesting and figured I'd share. These are the characters that s.lp won't connect on:
This, is probably not fixable.
 
Nom as an assist is too good. Sneeze is probably okay BUT neither of them has assists because they don't have commands when head-on. What would you get, just s.HP?
wanted to randomly pop in to say we've talked about this a year or so ago. You can already assign HP as an assist and she'll do Head Butt without her head. So, wouldn't be much of a change. You pondered the idea but ultimately changed your mind for other reasons.
 
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I argued long ago that the PW "unblockable" should be gone. Glad it's now finally a thing, though I stopped playing a year ago, it never set well with me as it just seemed like an exploit.
 
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It's not super easy to make consistent, but I can check.
...tried with dev tools, how are you hitting s.LP on like, anyone? When do you throw the bomb to get it?
Well this is embarrassing. Yeah when the foe's back is right to the corner, even on those where lk george hits, the jab won't follow up. The closest I got was delaying the bomb as much as possible so Peacock backs up a little, and then you can get the jab out right before they tech, but it just barely misses comboing by a hair. I did the back-throw testing first and always confirmed lp into s.mk there. I guess when I then flipped it, I made the silly assumption that if lk george hit, the lp would also hit. My dumb mistake.
 
Is it possible to be able to get the penguin without having to use ex canis major with airwulf? I find myself always "forgetting" to do it when I am going to kill with a regular canis major on airwulf, since prior to the changes it would trigger it automatically.

Speaking of canis major, I know it is +3, but it feels weird having the opponent START to get up first and you get up later but much faster.

As for his level 3, perhaps it would be nice to let him have an OTG afterwards, if he hasn't used it prior to starting the combo?
 
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It would be possible to change the new IPS/Undizzy extra scaling?

I think it's not that fair to remove the damage from the IPS (Red Burst) because you're sacrificing the sure damage to try to fish your opponent that would do something to survive instead to get the total damage from a combo.
It works perfectly with the Undizzy (Green Burst) because it is unfair to suffer extra damage without being able to do something because you would lose more than you should, but when you trade a sure damage to try to outsmart an oponent you make the fight more interesting with that mental pressure.
The 50% Extra Scaling in the IPS removes that, because the opponent sees that you're probably fishing for something, so in the actual state of the system it is much, much more safe to just wait to the opponent to get unsafe enough to burst or just wait for the attacker to finish the string than Burst out of the situation because the damage received is nothing compared to a missed Burst.
I know that this opens for more opportunities to use the "make nothing" logic to do something like ending the combo string and reset with a grab, but the use of this logic against someone who follows it is just something that was always there - the way the extra scaling is affecting the IPS is only removing the power of someone that tries his hardest to outsmart his opponents and, if someone is good with this, they should not suffer losses in their gameplan just because of the burst-safe ending strings.

So I see the extra 50% scaling for strings after a full Undizzy gauge very fit to stop the characters that can abuse of it, but it should not affect the IPS triggering strings because, as I said, you're trading a confirm to force your opponent to do something or to use the knowledge, intuition, feeling, etc that the opponent will do nothing and use it against him too, keeping the importance to keep the eyes open for the attacker moves and to use the defensive systems wisely instead of just walking into the safer path.
 
STUFF.
I agree and honestly it's something I was thinking about too but forgot to mention because of all of the other changes taking priority in my mind, it almost feels worth it to just let the opponent keep hitting me for almost no damage and just letting myself build lots of meter from it and then burst when I finally feel safe rather than bursting out of fear of taking extra damage.
 
That would be a nerf.
She summons him if she is interrupted out of call past a certain point.
What I meant was after I input the move, the biker shouldn't come out slow unless she was hit super early. I'm not sure how many frames it is now, but shorter than what it is already. That's if he doesn't have the animation to speed up an interrupted biker
 
I would be more than fine with s.HP being the assist for Fortune if we could have Sneeze assist. I feel getting head roll while still head on might be a bit much though...

Oh, uhh @Mike_Z, not sure if it's because of the recent PS4 updates, but you can now hit the home button during tournament mode.
 
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-Updated the dead zones for the analog sticks on PS4 to be a teeny bit larger. Not sure if better or worse, in reality, but it’s required. :^)

In the current console version if you use a 360 controller+adapter you can't double tap forward on the analog stick to dash and the back/forward zones are ridiculously tiny. Does anyone know if this problem is fixed with this change?
 
I think it's not that fair to remove the damage from the IPS (Red Burst) because you're sacrificing the sure damage to try to fish your opponent that would do something to survive instead to get the total damage from a combo.
I agree with this completely, thank you for bringing it up! The main goal was to reduce tacking on big hits after 240 undizzy. I'm not sure I can do it, though. If you cause both IPS and Undizzy bursts, though, you will still get reduced damage.

Oh, uhh @Mike_Z, not sure if it's because of the recent PS4 updates, but you can now hit the home button during tournament mode.
Dude, it's not possible to prevent that on any system except PS3 (;_;) it has never been prevented on PS4 if you are using a PS4 stick/pad.
If you're using a PS3 stick/pad on PS4 it's prevented because the Home button doesn't do anything anyway, so I highly recommend this for tournaments.
Sony didn't want us to do it at all even on PS3, they tried their best to not let games do it. It's a giant hack.

During the development of the PS4 I started a thread with them asking for features like the game disabling the Home button and forcefully disconnecting all controllers, complete with video reference and logical arguments (sev and also Injustice top 8 the same year), and I brought it up again once SF5 being PS4 exclusive* was announced. Not only was it denied, twice, but they told me "if people really have problems, you could consider manufacturing tiny plastic caps for them to put over the Home button". So yeah. There is nothing I can do anymore, the hack doesn't work on PS4.

If people really care then the FGC should strongly consider lobbying Sony, but I already tried and failed. It's a single flag in the firmware, it wasn't denied for technical reasons - it's mostly that it goes against the philosophy of always having the Home button to press in unknown situations.

So what do people think of the opponent meter gain on robo beams? It removes one of the biggest benefits of zoning
Robo still gets the same amount of meter she did before, and the opponent takes damage and goes into hitstun, and isn't right next to you to punch you, which are benefits of zoning. If I'd nerfed the amount of meter ROBO got, I'd agree with your statement somewhat. (She gets more meter than they do if they don't block it, too.)

In the current console version if you use a 360 controller+adapter you can't double tap forward on the analog stick to dash and the back/forward zones are ridiculously tiny. Does anyone know if this problem is fixed with this change?
You'd have to ask someone who's been to Salty. Or you could tell me which adapter type/mail me one to try.

Is it possible to be able to get the penguin without having to use ex canis major with airwulf? I find myself always "forgetting" to do it when I am going to kill with a regular canis major on airwulf, since prior to the changes it would trigger it automatically.
You mean if you started the combo with 3 levels but don't EX the Press? Probably not, because it does 1800 unscaled damage, which means it does 1525 more than regular fully scaled Press, plus that would allow you to do 3 EX finishers beforehand instead of 2, which further increases the total damage. You could try "remembering"...?

Speaking of canis major, I know it is +3, but it feels weird having the opponent START to get up first and you get up later but much faster.
Decent point. Not sure what I can do but I'll try to finagle something.

As for his level 3, perhaps it would be nice to let him have an OTG afterwards, if he hasn't used it prior to starting the combo?
Nope.

Is there any particular reason why Big Band can be grabbed out of a parry?
Because otherwise it has no weaknesses at all...parrying something in the air would basically just grant invincibility...


* although with the current state of SF5's UI, we now know it is highly unlikely they would have used this feature, so for all I know they asked Capcom and Capcom said "Why would anyone want that?" :^P
 
ips stuff

all this assumes 2 things that I would argue are not necessarily the case:

1) that before the scaling on IPS hits, it was more worthwhile to burst to avoid damage

2) that the reason to attempt a burst is to prevent further damage from the combo

in the actual state of the system it is much, much more safe to just wait to the opponent to get unsafe enough to burst or just wait for the attacker to finish the string than Burst out of the situation because the damage received is nothing compared to a missed Burst.

you say that as if this is only the case in the current version. well before IPS hit scaling, in high level play it was extremely uncommon for a player to intentionally attempt to burst out of a combo (burst baits are often used more to check to see if your opponent is mashing than anything else, not to try and get more damage), because like you said the risk far outweighs the reward, as far as damage goes.

which leads to the 2nd point: in the case where you ARE intentionally trying to burst out, the main benefit is not the avoidance of damage (in the same combo anyway), it is to force your opponent away from you and reset the situation to neutral. Seeing as burst baits (as with any reset) are often used after the combo has begun to scale in the first place, as well as the fact that it is rare for a burst bait to be more than a couple hits, the damage loss is not that noticeable.
 
Robo still gets the same amount of meter she did before

I don't think she does on hit, maybe you made a mistake?

Some Robo beam metergain comparison starting from one bar, doing the same amount of beams (Had the retail and beta open at the same time with one controller controlling both.)

On Hit:
A bunch of beams on hit getting Robo really close to 2 meter.
beta1.png beta2.png
retail1.png retail2.png
On Block:
A bunch of beams on block getting Robo 2 bars or close to.
betablock1.png betablock2.png
retailblock1.png retailblock2.png
The difference in meter gained for the opponent on block is massive.
Went from about a 10:1 ratio to a 1:1 ratio, but it looks like the opponent actually will gain a meter before Robo by a smidge.
Maybe 2:1 would be a bit better?

For comparison, Peacock is about 10:2 for building a bar, and that's including sHP's thrown in. [Above 1 meter so they wont build bar]

The difference in meter gained for Robo seems to be different on hit from retail to beta, so maybe that was unintentional?
 
@Mike_Z Sunset plays on 360 pad and uses a brooks converter. I don't know if she goes to salty often, and the last time I talked to her she said it worked fine, but it doesn't work for me in SG and its only SG that has this problem. I'll ask her again.

I also don't mind sending you my converter/360 pad if you want to try it yourself.
 
Robo still gets the same amount of meter she did before, and the opponent takes damage and goes into hitstun, and isn't right next to you to punch you, which are benefits of zoning. If I'd nerfed the amount of meter ROBO got, I'd agree with your statement somewhat. (She gets more meter than they do if they don't block it, too.)
Well, the benefit of zoning is getting meter while the opponent doesn't, not just getting meter, unlike some other characters robo does good chip though, so it makes sense, I guess.

I was mostly asking for opinions not for a "fix", this change is pretty huge (they get 2 bars fast and you have to watch out for super into safe dhc) but I didn't see anyone talk about it.
 
Okay, thank you Mike. My memory was foggy about the whole situation, so I never accidentally clicked the home button ever since I switched systems up until a few days.

Also, Robo c.LP does not need further buffs, the initial one was more than enough lmao
 
The difference in meter gained for Robo seems to be different on hit from retail to beta, so maybe that was unintentional?
That totally is unintentional! Hmm...well, the difference is unintentional, but for the opponent to gain above-average meter it has to stay. Oh well. :^P

@Mike_Z Sunset plays on 360 pad and uses a brooks converter. I don't know if she goes to salty often, and the last time I talked to her she said it worked fine, but it doesn't work for me in SG and its only SG that has this problem. I'll ask her again.
She's at Salty every week. Do you not have the problem on PC? The dead zone numbers are within 1% (if the analog range is 0-100%) of each other on PC and PS4 now, whereas before they were something like 13% different.

I also don't mind sending you my converter/360 pad if you want to try it yourself.
Unless you realllllly wanna overnight it, there basically isn't any time.
 
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The Dynamo thing, you just kinda gotta get used to. I play her and have it happen to me, and even I don't think that it shouldn't kill until the last hit. There's no really good solution, but I might as well explain what's happening:
When a character is dead and they touch the wall in air knockdown hitstun, they become invincible. This is to prevent dead body combos or infinites, a few of which are possible in MvC2. Dynamo's floorbounce ..... hang on, I think I just figured out how to fix this to get her to juggle dead people fully!
Um. I have setups that intentionally take advantage of how unsafe Dynamo looks. So. If you don't have to change that, I would appreciate it.
 
Um. I have setups that intentionally take advantage of how unsafe Dynamo looks. So. If you don't have to change that, I would appreciate it.
I already fixed it, but the last 4 hits can still miss. You'd rather keep 'em all?