Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

[Zidiane]

I already fixed it, but the last 4 hits can still miss. You'd rather keep 'em all?

So, if only two hits of the super connect, I'm safe vs all incoming reversal attempts, but the first hit is the only one Bella can be punished on. Even then its just vs characters who have supers that reach you (some air supers can't). Other characters who try to punish that first hit of Dynamo but don't know the exact thing to do (what will and won't punish) can get hit, or at the least eat a c.lk/mgr when they land.

I wouldn't mind just the first hit not killing and the rest behaving like normal, but I've gotten used to it. I know when it'll kill on the first hit and when it won't. What I do if I think it'll kill on the first hit is do Dynamo earlier in the middle of Copter, letting me avoid that against characters who can punish me. I never feel like it's out of my control.

 

[Fuego]

Off topic, but I can't seem to get Leviathan to yell "mortis" during Squigly's QCF + LP. The line used to play if you had previously built a charge and spent it at a later time. Does it just not play at all now (and why not, if this is the case)?

 

[BigEffinDud]

I know this probably never happens, but I was playing some casual 1v1 matches with Shaky and I killed his character in round 1 with Double Lv.5, then after the round ended and his character got up........ I was still in Lv.5!! Can we make it so that Lv.5 ends at Round conclusion? Lol because I died, very quickly...

 

[Mike_Z]

I never feel like it's out of my control.

Hello, Solobella, there are plenty of situations in which if you want the kill you can't control whether it hits once, like off Fenrir. In this case, quality of life for everyone > this one thing for you. I can make it guarantee only the first 2 hits, though, so you still get lookin'-like-dead setups but aren't actually UNsafe, which is the thing I want to fix.

Off topic, but I can't seem to get Leviathan to yell "mortis" during Squigly's QCF + LP. The line used to play if you had previously built a charge and spent it at a later time. Does it just not play at all now (and why not, if this is the case)?

I might have broken that with the assist VO change, I'll look.

I know this probably never happens, but I was playing some casual 1v1 matches with Shaky and I killed his character in round 1 with Double Lv.5, then after the round ended and his character got up........ I was still in Lv.5!! Can we make it so that Lv.5 ends at Round conclusion? Lol because I died, very quickly...

Ahahaha, I can allow her to manually blow up during the intermission, yeah.

 

[Zidiane]

Hello, Solobella, there are plenty of situations in which if you want the kill you can't control whether it hits once

Situations like what? Each hit of Dynamo at max scaling does 60, and the whole super does a bit over 1000, meaning as long as you can gauge when you're sorta within 1000 damage of killing you should be able to avoid it (it's less hard to do than many other things I've been told to just deal with and get used to...)

The combo ender for damage is copter, for happy birthday is mp lnl, and for meter gain is excellebella. Each hit of copter does virtually the same as Dynamo hits (55 each of the 7 hits I believe), and can be canceled early (before the 140 dmg ender). It'll only screw you on copter if you're trying to be greedy and kill without having to use meter, and even then very rarely. mp lnl can be skipped if you think Dynamo will kill, as mp lnl does 300 damage at max scaling. Excellebella is the only case that forces guessing, but you're only forced to go to that if you're under one bar and it's the only option to get the meter. It also will only ever come into play if you've used an OTG, so doing OTG-less combos removes the problem altogether (I know certain confirms use OTG, but that's just a situation to learn imo).

I didn't have a single match where Dynamo screwed me in this way for the past year of playing teams, btw. I don't think it's a thing that needs to be altered.

Edit: it also looks like the only place Dynamo will whiff after the first hit is in the corner, so doing anything midscreen won't bite you in the butt ever. It will only bite you in the butt if you can't count damage, have them in the corner, and if you are trying to be greedy for meter (either saving bar or gaining more) or are under a bar, and even then there's only a 60 damage margin for whether it'll kill on the first hit.

 

[Mike_Z]

Situations like what?

I JUST TOLD YOU, "like off Fenrir". If you're gonna argue, at least read what the other person is saying.

Filia often uses OTG. DHCing in rescales to 70%, so the first Dynamo hit does 210. Plus, off Fenrir you can't always be sure of positioning or not crossing behind them if you are close-to-but-not-in the corner and DHC before Filia is falling. You don't always have control of how much damage you want to do or which hit you land. The same is true off BB Lv3, Car depending on height, etc.

I'll remind you one more time that "I have not personally had this problem" is not at all equivalent to "the problem does not exist". :^)

I don't think it's a thing that needs to be altered.

You're -9 in the corner off having Dynamo hit twice with OTG used. That's punishable by over the majority the cast.

I think guaranteeing a 3rd hit in the SINGLE SITUATION where it is possible to have it only hit once or twice is perfectly fair and solves the problem the person who brought it up (and myself) had and still gives you situations where she looks vulnerable, because you are only +14. I think helping the player in the one moderately-common incoming situation in the entire game where you can be punished for landing the kill is more useful than preserving a situation that, once the other person knows about it, isn't of any help to you anyway because you'll get punished.

 

[skull person]

That totally is unintentional! Hmm...well, the difference is unintentional, but for the opponent to gain above-average meter it has to stay. Oh well. :^P

L / M Beam

DAMAGE

Hit, 600 > 650 (+8.3%)
Block, 400 > 375 (-6.6%)

METERGAIN

Retail:

Robot

Whiff = 2.5
Block = 5.625
Hit = 6.666666508​

Opponent

Whiff = N/A
Block = 0.78125
Hit = 1.041666627
​

Beta:

Robot​

Whiff = 2.5
Block = 4.375
Hit = 5​

Opponent

Whiff = N/A
Block = 4.46875
Hit = 4.625
​

Robo metergain on block = 28.5% reduction.
Robo metergain on hit = 33.3% reduction.

Opponent metergain on block = 472%! increase.
Opponent metergain on hit = 344%! increase.

These numbers are not worth +50 damage on hit. (8.3% dmg increase).
Good players block beams, and those are nerfed by 25. (-6.6% dmg decrease)

Oh well. :^P

If you haven't shipped the game, I would like to ask you to take another pass at metergain or to revert beams back to the previous iteration. (600H / 400B)

​

 

[Zidiane]

I don't know. I'm trying Dynamo after Fenrir bite and it's hitting. You can do it lower to the ground slightly, and even if the first hit kills it hits at least twice, even in the corner. Double car has multiple hits, seems like you can change when you DHC. But, sure, do whatever to bella.

 

[Mike_Z]

If you haven't shipped the game, I would like to ask you to take another pass at metergain or to revert beams back to the previous iteration. (600H / 400B)

I already looked at meter gain again locally - the opponent now gets roughly half what Robo gets, both on hit and block. (I'm not putting it back to what it was in Retail, either for her or for them, because of the many other differences in beams now.)

But, sure, do whatever to bella.

The difference in timing between this being -23, -9, +4, +11, or +14 is which frame you DHC.

You are arguing situations like this should stay.

 

[cloudKing211]

Why

Edit: Even better

dying

 

[fenster]

New Beta Update is out http://steamcommunity.com/games/208610/announcements/detail/597119843266220062

Spoiler

As always, the full changelist is HERE.

We made it to 10,00 preorders for the Limited Run Games physical version of Skullgirls!
This means all regions of PS4, PSVita, and Steam are getting Japanese VO. Awwww yeaaaahhhh.

Title screen build ID 15031

General
- Over-max-undizzy burstable hits (green hitsparks) now are scaled by an extra 50%, and this can go below the minimum scaling. Attempting to fix the “do a long combo ending with one final large hit that would be burstable, except it kills them” thing. Now maybe it won’t kill them. This does not apply to Infinite Prevention System burstable hits (red hitsparks), which still do normal damage because you’ve not yet reached the maximum damage for the combo. (Green-vs-red distinction thanks to Fowz!)

Let's check up on Politician Double's progress toward those campaign promises...
- "Hitboxes and hurtboxes are equal parts of our heritage! We must embrace them!" j.LK, j.HP, c.LK, c.MP, and Hornet Bomber are no longer disjoint hitboxes. They still have non-vulnerable tips, and the hitboxes are not changed, but they can be out-poked more often now. (Lore: Double cannot create living weapons! All the things she creates are part of her. Or something.)
- "Second Amendment!" All Luger shots scale to 75%, because of the amazing utility they have at neutral and the fact they are a single hit.
- "Something something explosions..." You can now trigger the explosion from her Lv5 during the intermission between Downs, rather than sitting around vulnerable at the start of the next round.

Peacock
- Shadow of Impending Doom scales followups to 77.5% (scales by 22.5%), except if it is Tenrai Ha. Her 50/50s with Lv2 items are extremely good, and it doesn’t affect her starters that aren’t directly “drop an item” much at all.
- You can now DHC into Goodfellows with QCB+PP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The DHC’d version is a hit instead of a throw, and it is scaled to always do just a teeny bit more damage than Lenny->Argus would do (on average). Peacock’s recovery on whiff is very long, around 60f, so don’t miss or get blocked. You cannot do this version as a point character.
- L Bang now knocks down with no OTG allowed vs air, and the same thing if it is used again when stagger has already been used in a combo. It is no longer -12 on hit in those situations. (thanks Psychopath!)
- Shortened the recovery of Goodfellows by 5f so that Peacock is not negative on hit if you’ve already used your OTG during the combo before landing it.

Fukua
- If she throws a fireball that doesn't hit anything, she now gets a teensy little bit of meter when it returns, as opposed to getting none. (MegamanDS #top300Fukua!!1!)

Robo-Fortune
- Opponent’s meter gain for being touched by all beams increased from Retail, but it is now roughly half of what Robo gets, both on hit and on block.
- Moved the back edge of the hitboxes for all levels of Catastrophe Cannon forward by 50 pixels, so it is easier to hit Robo from behind without being hit.

Betawulf
- Improved the timing for Beowulf’s animation after regular Canis Major Press so he gets up with timing that's more visually similar to the opponent’s.
- Added a 7f buffer window after Canis Major Press for all normals, specials, supers, dash, backdash, and throw.
- Regular and EX Chair Dance now build Beowulf a pretty good amount of meter, even when fully scaled.
- Fix belt occasionally appearing in the wrong place on the first frame of blocking animations. (thanks Poccola for reminding me)
- Improved the trajectory of assists hit by EX Killa.

Ms. Fortune
- Performing a kara-throw from the backward-moving startup of s.LK will now move her forward to her original spot, to prevent throws that would normally connect from whiffing if LK is pressed before LP. (thanks Worldjem)
- L Fiber Uppercut -2f hitstop on the opponent when blocked, M Fiber Uppercut -1f hitstop on the opponent when blocked. Not because they needed to be any more negative, but because the timing for when to press the button to punish her after blocking these was just a smidge too late, which caused people to miss the punish window often.

Parasoul
- Lv3 now drops a tear at Parasoul's feet during the superflash. It looks kinda cool and provides slightly better defense.
- Egret Charge: the sad Egret (when Parasoul is hit out of her startup) drives faster so the cooldown is shorter, and is visually dimmed so he looks less like one that can hit.

Squigly
- Lv3 changes:
-- Recovery is 8f faster.
-- The flame ball goes away if Squigly is hit by a snapback. She still has safe setups for it, but it is no longer completely 100% free offense.
- Restored very old voice lines for Liver Mortis assist, but still left “MORTIS!” VO for Seria version when Squigly is the point character. (thanks Cheesedragon)

Cerebella
- Expanded the hitboxes for Kanchou so that it combos on more characters at more heights, rather than whiffing by pixels. It's still -25 on block and has a very small supercancel window, so helping it not drop in the situations where it's not blocked seems fair.
- The first 3 hits of Diamond Dynamo prevent dead opponents from becoming invincible once they reach a wall. The prevents a situation where Cerebella would kill a character with Dynamo, have most of it whiff, and be punishable on incoming with no option to save herself. For exmaple,

 

[fenster]

Double Posting for a seperate point I wanted to list out.

On,"Parasoul - Lv3 now drops a tear at Parasoul's feet during the superflash. It looks kinda cool and provides slightly better defense."

I tested this out. She sets a tear immediately next to her that explodes when it touches the ground. This might've been done to help with the fact that, against Parasoul doing a raw level 3, not roman canceled (!!!), usually from near point blank or close to it, most every character can Solo reaction something as a punish/escape tool.

However, I tested out the scenarios which could punish level 3 before with the new changes. Only thing this change seems to have affected is Filia. Gregor now gets stopped by the tear explosion when from point blank or from midrange distance. Still punishes Parasoul from far distances though parasoul can probably RC to escape.

I can't really complain myself I suppose. If I had a choice of "specific thing I'd like levle 3 to at least beat in these scenarios", it would probably be just Peacock MP Bang since it looks silly when it beats Parasoul Level 3 clean. However, that would require adding more invul time to Level 3, which maybe affects some balance things, so I understand if we're too close to the deadline on this.

Gonna list out the reactions/punishes here btw if anyone was curious.

Spoiler

Keep in mind, all the test cases here were done from characters doing a cLK or Jab at point blank, Parasoul doing a level 3, not roman canceled, and the characters being forced to special/super cancel.

Filia: Gregor

Cerebella: Reflect (and block, is safe, parasoul cannot RC for pressure else she gets hit), Reflect xx Dynamo (beats Parasoul level 3 clean), Level 3

Peacock: MP Bang (beats Parasol Level 3 clean)

Ms Fortune: Headroll (trades with level 3), Headroll xx CSF or level 3 (beats out Parasoul Level 3 clean), Fiber xx Supers. Nothing for Headless

Painwheel: level 3 (only midscreen Point blank, pushes parasoul away from egrets and she gets hit)

Parasoul: Napalm Pillar (beats Parasol Level 3 clean)

Val: nothing (aside from ekg example as you said)

Double: Car

Squiggly: Daisy pusher

Big Band: H BE xx Taunted SSJ, Level 5

Fukua: BFF

Eliza: Level 3

Beowulf: H Chair toss, Level 3

Robo: level 3 (blocks, puts robo at install advantage)

 

[Swiftfox-Dash]

So obviously I love the Goodfellows DHC bit. Though after testing it out you can still do Lenny →item drop → Argus lvl 3 drop for about a hundred more than GF would do. Though I suppose it completely depends on who you're dhcing from. Also GF builds them more meter. Still like how it's easier to troll with it though considering most times I went for it to show off, it usually just got Peacock killed =p

 

[fenster]

Okay I know this is a random last request but while I'm thinking it, there's a dumb thing that bothers me with eliza DP. If the H DP itself is blocked by a point character, even if she hits an assist at the same time, she won't launch, and that's fine. But, if Eliza does L-M-H DP and the first two parts are blocked by the point, but the H DP hit itself whiffs on the point and hits some other object, she can still launch and be safe. Is there some kind of programming wizadry that can be done to make it so that if any hits of the L-M-H DP string are blocked, she can't jump cancel at all for the remainder? (regardless if this interferes with frametrap things with the DP, which I could do with or without since the Super option still exists).

Obvious a thing for assists and team play, but it's also kind of lousy for Solo Headless fortune vs Solo Eliza, where you can block Eliza's DP reversal, but fortune's small enough to not get hit by the 3rd hit and the head gets launched off of :(

 

[dragonos451]

kanchou change + squigly lvl3 reverted change = good day to be me

 

[MegamanDS]

Spoiler

Keep in mind, all the test cases here were done from characters doing a cLK or Jab at point blank, Parasoul doing a level 3, not roman canceled, and the characters being forced to special/super cancel.

Filia: Gregor

Cerebella: Reflect (and block, is safe, parasoul cannot RC for pressure else she gets hit), Reflect xx Dynamo (beats Parasoul level 3 clean), Level 3

Peacock: MP Bang (beats Parasol Level 3 clean)

Ms Fortune: Headroll (trades with level 3), Headroll xx CSF or level 3 (beats out Parasoul Level 3 clean), Fiber xx Supers. Nothing for Headless

Painwheel: level 3 (only midscreen Point blank, pushes parasoul away from egrets and she gets hit)

Parasoul: Napalm Pillar (beats Parasol Level 3 clean)

Val: nothing (aside from ekg example as you said)

Double: Car

Squiggly: Daisy pusher

Big Band: H BE xx Taunted SSJ, Level 5

Fukua: BFF

Eliza: Level 3

Beowulf: H Chair toss, Level 3

Robo: level 3 (blocks, puts robo at install advantage)

That list is stuff that beat Parasoul in retail and STILL beats her in beta? Or just stuff you plan on testing that beats her in retail?


EDIT: Just saw beta changes. I got not one but TWO requests put through?! Oh boy, Christmas & Hanukkah have come early!

 

[Nine]

I'm just going to address the elephant in the room. Yes, the wall of text below is mostly sarcasm. I think Big Band is fine.

From my time in the SGC, I've noticed a sentiment among some players + top players, and that being:

Big Band degenerates Skullgirls into a dishonest game that rewards "Unga Unga Mike Z Game" actions, and in the future you will need to play Big Band or else you will never get anywhere. Crossups will become a meme and he will guess correctly on every single parry. M Beat Extend is actually plus, and H Brass makes the game binary. L Step has no place as an overhead and you can never guess the situations when he will use it. Cymbal clash is literally unreactable in neutral and should be a mid at all versions. Stand jab can anti air anything in the game, even if the active frames on ltierally every jump-in in the game had invincibility on hurtboxes. Beat Extend and H Brass are actually called "Neutwal Cancel". Wait, what the fuck is a meaty jump in? That stufs Extend assist calls? Nah man, let's revert Double and Fukua to retail.

This is all said in a rather deadpan, sarcastic and memed-out manner, but I think I have illustrated a lot of the frustrations that these players are saying.

My opinion? I think that these are mostly just exaggerated - and even baseless - in some examples. Big Band is so tall, he literally can not react to any instant overhead done by every single character (including himself!) ever in this game. That isn't even an opinion. He also still has to guess on his parries or he dies. You're playing a versus game, and you're playing against a big damage character. Do you just want everyone to do beta Fukua damage or something?

ANYWAY What I am trying to get at, is I want people's opinions on Band in his current state. I see a lot of complainers, but no one is bringing it up in a public space for Mike to look at. If you're just going to complain about it and it never gets addressed because you didn't bring it up, then you only have it on yourself to blame.

I see people either call him one of the weaker characters, or a degenerate and dishonestly broken character. What is the twoof? Yeah, this isn't worded well but QUIT SUBTWEETING THE BIG MAN AND SAY IT TO HIS FACE

 

[PME]

Thank you Mike about the Laser vs Lenny change, laser metergain change, and Fortune's kara grab change

 

[hilaryyy]

- j.LK, j.HP, c.LK, c.MP, and Hornet Bomber are no longer disjoint hitboxes. They still have non-vulnerable tips, and the hitboxes are not changed, but they can be out-poked more often now.

cLK and jLK hurts, I have no idea why cMP was ever disjointed to begin with. jHP makes sense.

Kind of concerned about her losing to Para jLP, Fukua jLP, and Squig jLK if people want to MK2 hopkick Double jump-ins now.

- "Second Amendment!" All Luger shots scale to 75%, because of the amazing utility they have at neutral and the fact they are a single hit.

I don't think this really affects her; it still does exactly what it did before in terms of utility. If she got an L-Luger against an airdashing/jumping opponent she typically had to use OTG cLK cHP Fleshstep to pickup which means she's missing an IPS starter later. For most of the Lugers me, Sev, or Liam picked up, it typically went into reset anyways.

 

[MegamanDS]

stuff

I don't know if your post is saying people are complaining that BB is too good or if BB sucks. But either way, I think he's fine. If anything, I think he needs more buffs. But I don't play enough big bands to separate the good from the bad.

- j.LK, j.HP, c.LK, c.MP, and Hornet Bomber are no longer disjoint hitboxes.

Does this mean when I try to pushblock in between hits, I won't get hit anymore but get a pushblock instead? THANK YOU

 

[fenster]

That list is stuff that beat Parasoul in retail and STILL beats her in beta? Or just stuff you plan on testing that beats her in retail?

Everything in that list still beats out Parasoul in the current beta aside from Filia's Gregor Super. I haven't tested if Filia has other options yet though but I doubt it.

 

[Nine]

I don't know if your post is saying people are complaining that BB is too good or if BB sucks. But either way, I think he's fine. If anything, I think he needs more buffs. But I don't play enough big bands to separate the good from the bad.

Sorry, shoulda clarified. Yes, I think he's fine. I also think the complaining is a bit silly.

 

[Cadenza]

Does this mean when I try to pushblock in between hits, I won't get hit anymore but get a pushblock instead? THANK YOU

I am so confused..... you're trying to pushblock but you fail and get hit?

 

[Turvon]

I dont understand the changes to doubles disjointed hitboxes on jlk and jhp when parasouls jlk and painwheel jhp both have disjointed hitboxes and taking away the disjointed hitboxs from jlk and jhp takes away burst baits from it

 

[PME]

I dont understand the changes to doubles disjointed hitboxes on jlk and jhp when parasouls jlk and painwheel jhp both have disjointed hitboxes

Lore: Double cannot create living weapons! All the things she creates are part of her. Or something

I am so confused..... you're trying to pushblock but you fail and get hit?

Kept mashing pushblock and got dash instead maybe?

 

[MegamanDS]

I am so confused..... you're trying to pushblock but you fail and get hit?

There are times where she does the 3 hit bomber and I try to pushblock hit 2 but get hit after blocking hit 1 because I get a back dash during the hits

 

[Masqman]

I dont understand the changes to doubles disjointed hitboxes on jlk and jhp when parasouls jlk and painwheel jhp both have disjointed hitboxes

Because those characters are different both in moveset as a whole and character playstyle and require different tools than a character with a compilation of those tools. Canonically speaking "(Lore: Double cannot create living weapons! All the things she creates are part of her. Or something.)"

 

[Adeveis]

@Hammerschmidt
I think a lot of stuff was just uncalled for but I'm not complaining. I will say though, I think that being able to parry projectiles high and low is kinda stupid.

 

[Kyugetsuki]

Does this mean when I try to pushblock in between hits, I won't get hit anymore but get a pushblock instead? THANK YOU

This has nothing to do with it.

There are times where she does the 3 hit bomber and I try to pushblock hit 2 but get hit after blocking hit 1 because I get a back dash during the hits

This just means 3 hit bomber is not a true block string and you inputted pushblock during that gap where hitstun from the first hit ended and second hit hasn't started yet.

 

[Masqman]

That being said tho (and I wish I had a Video) but can we get the third of H bomber to not cross in some situations? or...idk cause I'm just blocking and the all of a sudden it crosses up and I cri...

[Clarification] I think it's when I crouch block or pushblock or something

 

[MegamanDS]

This has nothing to do with it.


This just means 3 hit bomber is not a true block string and you inputted pushblock during that gap where hitstun from the first hit ended and second hit hasn't started yet.

okay thanks

 

[Burpinator]

Only change to Big Band I'd like to see before the final version is something very minor since if i were to suggest any bigger changes I'd get eaten out by the people who play SG better then me and have more knowledge. But can you delay the Toot on Big Band's c.lk so that you know you hit them? cause the most annoying thing when I play Big Band is when I hear c.lk's Toot but it doesn't hit because I got punished by whatever. When I hear the Toot I equate that to 'I hit them' Sound effect. its about as annoying as when you hear the Hit Sound by lag rolls back or whatever and shows that you didn't actually hit anything visually.

 

[Lex]

So, what do people think of the changes to Double's hurtboxes? Personally I agree with the nerfs to j.HP, cr.LK and hornet Bomber but think that they may have been overnerfed. While none of them should be as disjointed as they were in retail, I also don't think that the hurtboxes should be as large as they are now. For j.HP this messes up several burst baits (including the classic launcher, j.LK, j.HP the burst hits Double during the j.HP now) and makes j.HP too easy to contest in neutral (again, not saying it should be like retail, just that I think the current hurtboxes go a bit far). M Bomber is now very easy to stop in neutral in comparison to other similar horizontal lockdown assists (it is still a good assist though).

I don't really understand why j.LK was nerfed though, it wasn't that amazing of an attack before given how small its hitbox was and this just makes it even worse. I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this.

Speaking of hitboxes, could Filia's cr.HP get some larger hitboxes? Not necessarily longer horizontally but extend them below her hair and perhaps a little bit larger directly above her body (if necessary) so that it is more consistent in combos (especially vs Squigly). I don't think this would have any dramatic effects other than making combos easier. She doesn't have to get Fukua's cr.HP or anything crazy, just enough to make it so that it doesn't whiff during certain combos because you were too close to your opponent.

In regards to Band, I think people mainly complain about him not because of him as a point character but because of his assists; H brass is just such a dominant assist that goes well with everyone and fits so many purposes and Beat Extend is similar. The presence of his assists in neutral is what I think annoys people. As a point character I don't think people dislike him so much because of his glaring faults. The only thing about Band as a point character that I think should change is that I think his parry window should be reduced since it is pretty big atm.

 

[Rabbleflaggers]

Only change to Big Band I'd like to see before the final version is something very minor since if i were to suggest any bigger changes I'd get eaten out by the people who play SG better then me and have more knowledge. But can you delay the Toot on Big Band's c.lk so that you know you hit them? cause the most annoying thing when I play Big Band is when I hear c.lk's Toot but it doesn't hit because I got punished by whatever. When I hear the Toot I equate that to 'I hit them' Sound effect. its about as annoying as when you hear the Hit Sound by lag rolls back or whatever and shows that you didn't actually hit anything visually.

I mean, most of Big Band's normals makes a distinct instrumental sound despite being on hit or on block. That's just part of his character. Do you mean the sound sort of clipping over when you get punished really early upon using c.LK, so you hear the sound but c.LK isn't really "there" anymore? As for myself, I haven't noticed that if that was the case, and this problem never really bothered me to your extent.

 

[Turvon]

Getting rid of the disjointed hitboxes for double jlk and jhp also removes alot of her burst baits
And lore is a really stupid reason to change this.

 

[acfan]

It's Mike's decision.

 

[Burpinator]

I mean, most of Big Band's normals makes a distinct instrumental sound despite being on hit or on block. That's just part of his character. Do you mean the sound sort of clipping over when you get punished really early upon using c.LK, so you hear the sound but c.LK isn't really "there" anymore? As for myself, I haven't noticed that if that was the case, and this problem never really bothered me to your extent.

Yeah thats what i mean basically. On hit or Block I don't mind. Its when the normal isn't there visually cause you got punished but the sound que for it still comes out. Like I mentioned before for me hearing c.lk's sound signals to me that i hit them (whether its whiff/hit/block) but if i am punished and am in a combo after the toot from c.lk that didn't visually come out thats what gets me. Its not insanely annoying. Just as annoying as hearing a hit sound that didn't hit cause lag or whatever.

 

[alexpi]

@fenster i did some more testing on Parasoul's level 3. On the plus side, this change means you can't do stuff quite as silly as low profiling with Fortune's c.jab into a full combo for no meter. It's still kinda trash as a straight mashed reversal, but Pillar exists, so it's not all bad

 

[Mike_Z]

@ Double (wow, Double is a user here)
- I'll fix the burst baits, even if I have to do "use the old boxes if they burst". :^P
- Was disjoint j.LK really that useful in neutral, or is that more about the burst baits? I'm open to reverting j.LK, and reducing the size of the box on c.LK, though.

M Bomber is now very easy to stop in neutral in comparison to other similar horizontal lockdown assists (it is still a good assist though).

Good. It still comes with Double being on your team, it was SUPPOSED to be able to be punched this whole time because it's not invincible, it just turns out disjoint hitboxes made that harder than it should be.

@ Big Band (wow, Big Band is a user here too? Sheesh.)
Let's hear complaints! Seriously, let's hear 'em from the people who have 'em. I can't decide if they're valid or not until I know what they are.

- I will mention that every assist has 2f vulnerable startup, so every assist can be stuffed, so if this becomes a series of "I can't bait or stuff assists" I'll be a bit sad.
- SLIGHTLY smaller parry window, and not parrying projectiles high and low on the ground before you're already in a parry, I agree with.

Cymbal clash [...] should be a mid at all versions.

(yes I know you were being sarcastic) I'm...actually fine with this for L and M. It's giant and disjoint.

L Step, though? C'mon now, his only useful LOW on the ground is c.LK, you can block him just like 3s Makoto - after you see c.LK, stop blocking low.

Lv3 things

It's really just for the style, so "it works and does some damage and isn't buggy in some way" is fine with me. :^) It's mostly that Lenny Argus Lv3 item does about as much as most Lv3s from other chars. :^P

if Eliza does L-M-H DP and the first two parts are blocked by the point, but the H DP hit itself whiffs on the point and hits some other object, she can still launch and be safe. Is there some kind of programming wizadry that can be done to make it so that if any hits of the L-M-H DP string are blocked, she can't jump cancel at all for the remainder?

Oh, the latter is how I intended it to work. I'll check if I can fix it.

Parasoul Lv3 tear was for all the things I found that beat Lv3 that aren't supers, after looking at it. :^) Gregor is a bonus.

Getting rid of the disjointed hitboxes for double jlk and jhp also removes alot of her burst baits

I can fix that, though.

And lore is a really stupid reason to change this.

Yes it is! I didn't change it because of the lore, though, I changed it because it's something I've been waiting to do for a while. It just happens to fit the lore, which is funny to me.
Her j.HP and c.LK in particular are much more useful than PW's equivalents because of what Double does vs what Painwheel does.
Can I get just a teeny little bit annoyed that I've been patching this game for almost five years justifying everything with logical reasons, and people STILL think I will do things for stupid reasons like that?

 

[Icky]

Can I get just a teeny little bit annoyed that I've been patching this game for almost five years justifying everything with logical reasons, and people STILL think I will do things for stupid reasons like that?

I just want to say this:

I just recently came back to the game after being gone since spring 2015. I used to have a lot of complaints about your changes and a lot of "what in the WORLD is he thinking?!" reactions to stuff.

But, I gotta say that by far the current beta is the best the game has ever felt and seeing how the game has turned out has made me feel stupid for thinking I was a better game designer than you. Late-2016-Icky apologizes for 2015-And-Earlier-Icky who complained about a ton of changes that have turned out to be for the best.

Thank you for your continued work!