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Anime/Manga General Discussion

Denizen said:
What you see as trashy and slutty, I see as badass and brave. We all know the old saying, "There's a thin line between bravery and stupidity" and I believe that's what they are trying to accomplish in Kill la Kill. What the protagonist wears in battle is stupidly brave and I love it. I can totally take her seriously, as do all the characters in the show regardless of her outfit.

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It sure is great when all the characters "respect" your "bravery." :P

Mileage may vary, but that was a pretty huge turn-off for me. There's a line between "sexy outfits worn by cool characters" and "cool characters who exist to be paraded around in suspenders." Dropped that show and hard, because it just didn't appeal to me.

The Skullgirls comparison is disingenuous because one thing I love about Skullgirls is that they don't really emphasize the fanservice. It is there, but it isn't front, center, and thrust in your face with a posterior close-up camera angle. The characters are awesome and do all of their awesome things pretty independent of the fact that there's a panty shot when Parasoul kicks your face in. Ms. Fortune doesn't have nine close-ups of underboob every time she activates a Blockbuster.

This is... pretty much not that at all. It's intentionally trashy and softcore and pushes it in your face while it does all the stuff that would otherwise be cool on its own. Not interested. Huge minority opinion there though. ^^;
 
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SunnyRei said:
It sure is great when all the characters "respect" your "bravery."
eh, i still say its fine. (I expected something like this considering there's a high school setting) I think he was more referring to the enemies. Plus, Japan finds this stuff funny, so its more of a cultural comedy thing. its still so stupid it comes full circle and becomes awesome.
 
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Sanoblaze said:
eh, i still say its fine. (I expected something like this considering there's a high school setting) I think he was more referring to the enemies. Plus, Japan finds this stuff funny, so its more of a cultural comedy thing. its still so stupid it comes full circle and becomes awesome.

That's why I guess it's a "mileage varies" thing, yeah. No judgment to the people who do like it, but I think there's pretty legit grounds not to like it too, too. For some people it doesn't turn back around to awesome, it just runs into a wall at stupid and stalls out. :P

It does seem like the action and humor is pretty good, but meh, dealbreaker for me was a dealbreaker. It's a bit too uncomfortable about how it treats its heroine for me.


Started this one earlier today which seems neat, lol.
 
SunnyRei said:
That's why I guess it's a "mileage varies" thing, yeah. No judgment to the people who do like it, but I think there's pretty legit grounds not to like it too, too. For some people it doesn't turn back around to awesome, it just runs into a wall at stupid and stalls out. :P

It does seem like the action and humor is pretty good, but meh, dealbreaker for me was a dealbreaker. It's a bit too uncomfortable about how it treats its heroine for me.
I think things will eventually turn around. I have yet to watch it (I know I will want to marathon it unlike AoT where I had to take in the episode because shit got real. a lot.) and I will wait til I can see a synopsis of at least characters I like (after watching episode 1) to make sure I can avoid "things" I dont like seeing/handled poorly.
 
Sanoblaze said:
Oh Lordy, does this means Tsukiumi is Charizard.... or Primeape?

She would be Blastoise.
 
Oh my word I am relieved yet still uneasy about not being the only one who watches sekirei.
I still dont like the excess tits.....
 
Sanoblaze said:
Oh my word I am relieved yet still uneasy about not being the only one who watches sekirei.
I still dont like the excess tits.....

I watched it back when it first aired and actually enjoyed it.
 
Read the manga awhile back (Not up-to-date though) and literally after several chapters in I thought this was very similar to the Pokemon backdrop.
 
Jutsei said:
Is the Fate/Zero anime any good, if I might ask?

Hrmm. How familiar are you with Fate?

It's hard for me to judge how accessible it is for someone who isn't going into it after seeing/reading Fate/Stay Night (I am a huge fan of that universe), but I think it is a pretty awesome story on its own with some really great characters / fights. It is just that some of the terminology/values might be a little alien to you.

But overall, pretty awesome. Here's an example of a really cool early fight between the Berserker servant and the Archer who shoots weapons:
 
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Zeriam said:
I watched it back when it first aired and actually enjoyed it.
I enjoy it, I just can't ever feel comfortable watching something with nudity in it. whether its men or women I just can't act like its nothing. I still like the story though. please tell me Kusano doesn't get nekkid.
 
Jutsei said:
I heard a lot of things about Hunter X Hunter's reboot. Is that good?
It's fine, a perfectly good adaptation. The only poor change in plot they made is introducing Kite when he shows up instead of in an early flashback, and there are often short filler scenes to make an episode fit the time. The other anime was good too, so which you prefer is up to you. I personally really liked the color and animation in the old one, but I like the designs in this more and the animation is still very good for the type of show that it is. And this is the only one that will continue, obviously.

 
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Sanoblaze said:
I enjoy it, I just can't ever feel comfortable watching something with nudity in it. whether its men or women I just can't act like its nothing. I still like the story though. please tell me Kusano doesn't get nekkid.

She doesn't.

Also, you'll have to get use to it. Ecchi shows will continue to do this as the genre keeps going.
 
@SunnyRei I'm done arguing with people but I have to ask, WHY did you have to bring this up again!?
We were in a new page and everyone was past that hell storm and you had to go and kick the embers and start the flames again! This argument is tearing us apart, I just want it DEAD!
I was not comparing SkullGirls and Kill la Kill as if they are the same, you're deconstructing an argument that I never made, I feel the same as you do about the game. However, there are characters like Venus and D. Violet that exist who are way more flashy than Ryuko and I wonder how some people here feel about them (rhetorical question, please don't answer).
@Sanoblaze you got that right, by take her seriously I meant that all the important characters fight her like a real opponent. They don't half-ass anything because she's half-naked. Fuck Spectators, I never liked them.

I'm just going to repeat what I said before. I don't care what your opinion is as long as you don't attack other people with it and outright insult the subject. If you don't like this type of show that's fine but there is no reason to rip on it. That's not explaining your opinion, that's just mean. I'm talking to everyone right now.

PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT RYUKO'S OUTFIT, I'M REALLY TIRED OF IT.

END. OF. DISCUSSION.
PLEASE.
 
Crayolan said:
Thoughts on Kill La Kill episode 2:

Bad things: During the whole teacher scene I was confused. Was there ANY reason for him to take of his shirt and them to start playing softcore porn music? And as soon as Ryuko got her Senketsu activated, there was literally a boob or ass shot every 10 seconds. I mean, they can have her in a skimpy outfit, but don't waste so much time on just shots of the outfit, especially when they don't fit.
By the way, did anyone notice that all the tennis girls looked kind of like Rosa from BW2?
This pretty much is how I felt about it, although I'm pretty disappointed that they haven't done anything with the threads yet. I mean, even if you're fine with the outfit, I think we can all agree that it would be cool if it upgraded every time she beat one of the club leaders, megaman style.
Still watching it because I've liked every show trigger has produced and I haven't lost faith in them yet.

Zeriam said:
Also, you'll have to get use to it. Ecchi shows will continue to do this as the genre keeps going.
I don't know about that. If they move too far in that direction, won't all Ecchi just become Hentai?

Denizen said:
PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT RYUKO'S OUTFIT.
END. OF. DISCUSSION.
Denizen. We can discuss this. A mature conversation can be achieved about this outfit, and the implications it has. You don't need to jump in and stop any discourse about it before it happens like you're trying to prevent world war 3. If you don't let the discussion happen at all, you just look like you're trying to silence the opposing side's opinion. You're not respecting anyone's right to voice their perspective on it, and it's really just making it 100x worse. If you're like Jutsei and think it's taking up too much of the thread, make a new thread, but that's not how you're coming off at all.
 
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Horseman said:
Denizen. We can discuss this. A mature conversation can be achieved about this outfit, and the implications it has. You don't need to jump in and stop any discourse about it before it happens like you're trying to prevent world war 3. If you don't let the discussion happen at all, you just look like you're trying to silence the opposing side's opinion. You're not respecting anyone's right to voice their perspective on it, and it's really just making it like 100x worse. If you're like Jutsei and think it's taking up too much of the thread, make a new thread, but that's not how you're coming off at all.
This has never been a mature discussion, this has been a flame war with shots fired on both sides, you should realize this by now.
I respect EVERYONE'S right to voice their opinion, what I do NOT respect is outright insults and fighting. It doesn't seem like anyone here is capable having a mature discussion about this without those things so I feel that we are all better off dropping the subject entirely. I really don't think it warrants a discussion anyway, it's just something you like or you don't like.

If you really must talk about it Horseman then YOU make a new thread about it. I don't want to be a part of this anymore, I just want this thread to go back to the way it was.
 
Kill la Kill does have a shameful amount of skin on display...
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ragnorok64 said:
Kill la Kill does have a shameless* amount of skin on display...
Fixed, there's nothing wrong with that.
 
Horseman said:
I don't know about that. If they move too far in that direction, won't all Ecchi just become Hentai?

Not by much. I mean if that was the case then we should of had an Ikki Tousen or Queen's Blade hentai series years ago.
 
@Denizen
Denizen said:
I don't care what your opinion is as long as you don't attack other people with it and outright insult the subject.

Denizen said:
PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT RYUKO'S OUTFIT, I'M REALLY TIRED OF IT.

Not to be mean, but please pick a position and stick with it. Because you're making mutually exclusive statements within the same post. :P You can't "respect others' opinions as long as they don't attack other people with it" while simultaneously telling people to shut up about the opinion you don't want to hear. It doesn't really work that way.

I thought that was a reasonably civil, brief discussion I had with Sano there. We each mentioned some pros/cons, nothing bad about the other was said, and we moved on. You're the only one who seemed to feel the need to be in "battle mode" when no one is attacking anyone else for their own preferences. ^^; I even said "if you like it, that's cool, I just don't" and explained why.

As for Free, to be honest, Free! coasted on novelty because alot of the skin / fanservice it did was "novel" because it was typically a girl in the exact same position in 97% of other Japanese media. I didn't follow it myself, but that's the impression I got. It was funny because the shoe was on the other foot (and also funny/engaging character-wise as well). If boys got treated like that constantly, though, it'd honestly be just as derided as the rest, and rightfully so I should think.
 
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SunnyRei said:
@Denizen




Not to be mean, but please pick a position and stick with it. Because you're making mutually exclusive statements within the same post. :P You can't "respect others' opinions as long as they don't attack other people with it" while simultaneously telling people to shut up about the opinion you don't want to hear. It doesn't really work that way.

I thought that was a reasonably civil, brief discussion I had with Sano there. We each mentioned some pros/cons, nothing bad about the other was said, and we moved on. You're the only one who seemed to feel the need to be in "battle mode" when no one is attacking anyone else for their own preferences. ^^; I even said "if you like it, that's cool, I just don't" and explained why.

As for Free, to be honest, Free! coasted on novelty because alot of the skin / fanservice it did was "novel" because it was typically a girl in the exact same position in 97% of other Japanese media. I didn't follow it myself, but that's the impression I got. It was funny because the shoe was on the other foot (and also funny/engaging character-wise as well). If boys got treated like that constantly, though, it'd honestly be just as derided as the rest, and rightfully so I should think.
there was a LONG and tiresome discussion about the same subject a while ago in this thread. I think Denizen was just tired of the same subject being brought up.

And I don't mind the shoe being on the other foot. I feel its more than fair. if women can be objectified, why cant men? Equality is a two way street, you take the good and the bad.
 
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I'm done with it (the conversation was already over when he asked why I revived it I thought), I just wanted to answer his question and point out the inconsistent positions there. ^^; Sorry for continuing the topic though.

Mmm, on another topic, has anyone seen that Beyond the Boundary / Kanata no Kyoukai one? I was thinking about giving it a try when I have time to watch stuff, but an opinion would help. ^^;
 
I still have to watch that show. Ive heard you have to follow to steps two enjoy the show though.

1. Brain off
2. Awesome on

EDIT: Talking about kill la kill btw. Skullheart alerts are weird. It took me to 3 pages ago, and i didnt realize until i posted already.
 
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@SunnyRei I wasn't telling you to shut up about you're opinion. I want and accept your opinion, I think it's wonderful to hear that people think differently about things.

What don't want to hear is this:
"cool characters who exist to be paraded around in suspenders."
"It's intentionally trashy and softcore and pushes it in your face while it does all the stuff that would otherwise be cool on its own."

You're talk with Sano was absolutely fine, it's what you said before that bothered me.
If I can't hear an opinion without an insult then I don't want to hear it at all. That's why I want this to end, because no one has been able to do that in regards to this subject.

Also what Sano said, but I want to add that sexy does not equal objectification. Also, two wrongs don't make a right, especially when nothing is wrong in the first place.
 
*Ignoring the current convo*
So I just watched Pokemon Origins, and holy shit, it's amazing. Spoilers:
From the little things like the save screen ending each episode, to the adding backstory to beloved characters like Giovanni, to the classic Charizard seismic toss finish on Giovanni's Rhydon, to the exact lines from the games ("You don't believe in ghosts? Then I guess that white hand on your shouler isn't real" killed me), everything is so perfectly designed for people who loved the original games. My only complaint is that they could have given a little more time for the final Red vs. Green battle, but it was worth it to cut time on the red vs. green fight just for the awesomeness of seeing Charizard activate his mega evo vs. mewtwo.
I also noticed that they did a good job of making pokemon battles a lot more violent. In that first Charmander vs. Squirtle battle, hearing Charmander scream in pain was hard to listen to. Same goes for Marowak's death (though wtf, electric doesn't work against ground types, so how did she get killed by an electric rod?). Nonetheless I appreciate them showing the reality of pokemon battles, and them saying up front that pokemon do die IN battles, making them seem a lot less kiddy.
Overall I really loved this, but it makes me sad to see that the actual anime could have turned out this good, but instead became shit.
 
Pokemon Origins is a lovely reminder of the Pokemon Special anime I wish we could have, lol. At least there's still Special though!

(Super hype about the X/Y arc when they get to it)
 
Denizen said:
@SunnyRei
Also what Sano said, but I want to add that sexy does not equal objectification. Also, two wrongs don't make a right, especially when nothing is wrong in the first place.
I always thought the blatant sex appeal stuff was objectification. I was just saying guys can be made for sex appeal as much as girls. I feel over-amounts of sex appeal in animation shouldn't be viewed as the same in real life.
 
Denizen said:
@SunnyRei
What don't want to hear is this:
"cool characters who exist to be paraded around in suspenders."
"It's intentionally trashy and softcore and pushes it in your face while it does all the stuff that would otherwise be cool on its own."
How is this insulting to you? Also, how is this not pushed in your face?
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SunnyRei said:
Mmm, on another topic, has anyone seen that Beyond the Boundary / Kanata no Kyoukai one? I was thinking about giving it a try when I have time to watch stuff, but an opinion would help. ^^;
I posted about it on the last page, but recommendation-wise, go for it if you like Kyoto Animation's style at all. This looks as good as what they normally put out, and seems to have an actual plot.
 
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Kristoffer said:
How is this insulting to you? Also, how is this not pushed in your face?
It's insulting because it's saying that Ryuko is just fan service material, which she isn't. It's also insulting to call it trashy and comparing it to softcore porn, I don't see how one could think that isn't insulting.
I have nothing against Rei I think he/she is awesome, I just don't want to hear that crap.

Dude I agree it's pushed in your face, I wasn't talking about that. Right now you're pushing it in everybody's face, spoiler your images please.

Now can we move on please? I want to talk about other things.
 
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I would love an anime that takes place in the universe of The Last of Us.
 
Jutsei said:
Zombie Apocalypse Animes are good aren't they?
especially if they're set in a good universe like The Last of Us.
 
Denizen said:
What don't want to hear is this:
"cool characters who exist to be paraded around in suspenders."
"It's intentionally trashy and softcore and pushes it in your face while it does all the stuff that would otherwise be cool on its own."
That's just sunny voicing his opinion. You can't really voice a negative opinion on something without negative words, so I really don't know what you expect. Words like trashy, slutty, fetishy etc. are really the only accurate words we have to express this sort of opinion.

Sanoblaze said:
I always thought the blatant sex appeal stuff was objectification. I was just saying guys can be made for sex appeal as much as girls. I feel over-amounts of sex appeal in animation shouldn't be viewed as the same in real life.
Just because a character is overtly sexual doesn't mean it's objectification. That's kind of an overstatement. Free isn't really objectifying men, and kill la kill isn't really objectifying women either.
Objectification (in this context, at least) is when the show no longer treats its character like a person, and treats them (as obvious as it sounds) more like an object of desire. They might do something in the plot occasionally, but hell if they're ever getting a personality or really even a purpose to exist in the world they exist in. Basically they stand around and look pretty.
Either way, role reversals like this are a terrible solution to sexism in general. Yeah, if the amount of games in which mario saves princess peach is equal to the amount of games that princess peach saves mario, it's no longer sexist, but we still have the problem of one character being objectified and rendered useless for an entire game.

Denizen said:
It's insulting because it's saying that Ryuko is just fan service material, which she isn't. It's also insulting to call it trashy and comparing it to softcore porn, I don't see how one could think that isn't insulting.
I don't think anyone was suggesting that Ryuuko herself serves no purpose other than fan service. You're blowing this way out of proportion. A character design can be overtly sexual, even almost entirely about sexuality, without making the character wearing it nothing past that.

Jutsei said:
Zombie Apocalypse Animes are good aren't they?
-Flashbacks to Highschool of the Dead-
 
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less talk about the concept of sexuiality in anime and more about good stuff we'd like to see get anime adaptations.

like, Last of Us, or... Uncharted.... or even mirror's edge.
 
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