• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

Beast's Fury - Updates & Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
You are a total stranger 15 years older than me, that is gross.
I think you need a break. Take care of yourself for a bit. Enjoy a meal, try to take a nap or listen to relaxing music. I suggest Enya, she's my favourite.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Arcana
Evil-Dog said:
constant barrage of negativity
Everything seems like negativity when you view even constructive criticism as negative.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dead
chickenwithtie said:
You are a total stranger 15 years older than me, that is gross.
I think you need a break. Take care of yourself for a bit. Enjoy a meal, try to take a nap or listen to relaxing music. I suggest Enya, she's my favourite.
You need to lighten up.

Zidiane said:
when you view even constructive criticism as negative.
I don't. There's plenty constructive criticism that have been presented and taken in and it's been useful. Not agreeing with everything and correcting wrong information isn't seeing everything as negativity. How you put everything that's been said in the same basket without discernment in a broad brush statement is yet another negative approach to me. I mean do you wanna discuss stuff or just put in your little wise crack at me. Some criticism you'll consider valid, I'll agree with, some others I won't. That's how discussions work. No one will be a yes man just agreeing with everything.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: zarkingphoton
Evil-Dog said:
Yes, my mostly spare time work on the project, mostly for free, actually does speak volume, I agree.
Mostly spare time, entirely free with money paid to others out of our own pockets, led to this:
I am not performing unfair comparisons, I am comparing your demo to our demo, from circumstances in which your team had a number of advantages over ours.
If your goal is to create a good fighting game, then I do not feel it is unfair to judge your result based on the real-world progress of another team that was able to accomplish what you aim to accomplish.

Evil-Dog said:
you assumed out of the blue that we had paying jobs and criticized our campaign based on that?
I didn't assume you had paying jobs, don't put words in my mouth. I went off the fact that you said you were also doing other things, and said if it's not your full time work then I think it is disingenuous to ask for money to do it. Looking at the [lack of] progress on other projects where the dev team also does other things on the side, I think this is more than fair to say.
This is a personal preference, sure. I mentioned it because combining that with everything else just hurts a little more.

Saying, "Yes, it's not great, BUT I didn't put a lot of time into it etc" is irrelevant. The relevant part is "it's not great". The rest is justification for why it's not great, and the only people interested in that justification are the dev team.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dead, Wenzel, mcpeanuts and 3 others
Ninja said:
i just love that in the background you can hear Storm screaming her head off in MvC2. I find that so funny.
i find funny the comment section on the video: marvel is better, blabla.
Come on, people don't know what pre alpha means? xD
 
Mike_Z said:
Mostly spare time, entirely free with money paid to others out of our own pockets
I don't understand how this isn't getting through to you, you're a smart dude, Skullgirls was YOUR project, what am I? the good programming samaritan, venturing the land helping people with their projects? The comparison between 1) you making your own game in your own time with your own money for as long as you wanted and 2) me joining BF to bring the demo to where it is now, is completely absurd. You're saying you'd expect the same progress and level of polish between your personal project's demo and my spare time contribution to someone project's demo? Really? You'd expect the same level of polish between a project that is built by the person who has the ideas and the technical knowledge to make it happen and a project led by someone who must rely on hiring his team (which isn't rare at all)? Compare the 2 demos and I'll completely agree our demo is shit compared to what you did when you presented it. But that's not what you were doing, you were berating me on the level of quality in the BF demo after months of work and comparing it to what you did after years of work, equating the two and concluding that I lack knowledge and skills to make this project happen. The time spent programming something is VERY relevant to evaluating what's been done in a given time. Here's a situation: "Hi, here's what we did in 6 months where the programmer spent a total of 1 month of full time work, now here's what we wanna do in 18 months where the programmer will work the whole 18 months full time". You're not gonna say that's an irrelevant factor. Between having a part time programmer allowed by some of the funds gathered and having a full time programmer is a massive difference. And if you think BF's owner's circumstances are better suited to bring a project to life than you programming your own project in your own time, that's really odd. So yes, you are actually making an unfair comparison, you're comparing months of work with years of work, you're comparing a project that must hire workers to progress and a project where you're doing it yourself in your own time.

Mike_Z said:
I didn't assume you had paying jobs, don't put words in my mouth. I went off the fact that you said you were also doing other things, and said if it's not your full time work then I think it is disingenuous to ask for money to do it. Looking at the [lack of] progress on other projects where the dev team also does other things on the side, I think this is more than fair to say.
Right, cause people should completely stop working on their paying gigs and contracts to work full time and for free on other people's projects. BF is a project that needs funding to happen and SG wasn't. I'm quite certain you can agree with that. So it's normal that funds are asked to hire people who normally earn their livings doing their things, like me, like animators, like composers. So seriously Mike, you have to take a step back because these points you're harping on right now don't make much sense. Let's go back to saying our demo sucks. THAT makes sense, but that doesn't invalidate the potential of the project, given the funds to let me work full time on it. Don't you think so?
 
Evil-Dog said:
BF is a project that needs funding to happen and SG wasn't.

Skullgirls was a project where the developers worked for free to present a polished prototype to a publisher, afterwhich they got the funding they needed. Beast's Fury is a project where the developers made five separate Kickstarters, got several tens of thousands of dollars, and still failed to deliver a polished prototype, completely shattering the possibility of any rational publisher backing their project.

Publishers don't care about cool finishers, or clay busts of sharks. They care about teams with competent people who can work under deadlines/budgets and still produce a stellar product. Your team has proven the opposite, which is what pretty much every other person here has been trying to convey to you across the last 9 pages.

"We need even more money to continue work on our unfinished prototype" does not inspire confidence. Mike, Alex, Mariel and Jon worked their asses off so that Autumn Games would look their way, but you want the community to pave over every mistake you make with their wallets. If you are not passionate enough to bring BF to fruition on at least your own spare time, then perhaps you should consider quitting the team.

No offense intended there, I'm quite serious; it takes hella passion for small teams to realize ambitious ideas with empty wallets. Not hella Kickstarters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dead, Wenzel, Shooon and 5 others
Evil-Dog said:
You're saying you'd expect the same progress and level of polish between your personal project's demo and my spare time contribution to someone project's demo?

Yes, this is exactly what I would expect. Why? Because people paid for exactly that. They didn't get it, so people no longer trust the developers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dead, Wenzel, Bucky Barkley and 1 other person
Look, I'm sorry, but this project isn't going anywhere, and every time someone tries to point that out to you, you make some kind of excuse for your lack of passion in your project.
Evil-Dog said:
-but that doesn't invalidate the potential of the project, given the funds to let me work full time on it. Don't you think so?
This is where the problem lies, for me. Let's ignore the quality of the demo, and the time you had to work on it; there isn't much potential in your demo, but you're still asking for money.
You're selling us on a promise for a good game. A promise that you working full time will make the game great. A promise that the money will help. But we're not seeing a developer who has a great idea in him that just has no time or resouces to work with. You weren't able to work under your constraints to at least make the game look like it has potential. The project is so stale and passionless. Looking at the old Skullgirls demo, it looked like, to me, something someone worked very personally on and that had tons of potential if we were to give our money to help create. You've yet to demonstrate you deserve our money, or even that you're capable of us putting our trust in you to make a good game.
 
Oooook...I get it, same points rehashed. If something isn't going anywhere, it's this thread. So we'll see how the crowdfunding goes and if I get the job to continue programming the game, and in the meantime, we'll continue working on the demo at the current pace and see where that takes us. I see there's little to no interest here nor any will to understand our position as a project or my position as a freelance indie programmer who is part of that project. So frankly, I don't find any value in being here to talk about any of it. If you are actually interested in our progress, come follow us elsewhere, I don't think I need to come update you lot, you were already talking about the indiegogo before I came to announce it, so keep watching us from the sidelines, we'll certainly keep releasing builds, updates and videos. I still wanna thank, Mike Z, for this forum and despite what you think, plenty useful information I've taken in, as well as everyone else who gave us all the good feedback on our builds and in general as well. Hopefully I get to make good use of it, but right now, this thread is toxic so I'll see ya later, maybe, probably.
Cheers
 
Farewell, then! Good luck with the game. Despite my harsh words, I do somehow hope that Beast's Fury somehow gets itself back on tr-

Evil-Dog said:
this thread is toxic

not_today.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: dapurplesharpie, Zidiane, dead and 9 others
Well, damn. I've read quite a lot from this thread, some good and some bad. I gotta say, Evil-Dog did take some criticism to heart, but not all. As for the 5th campaign, I really wish Evil-Dog and the crew did take the deal of those publishers and they would not be in the mess they are in.
I can see why people are very skeptical of Beast's Fury, and so was I from the beginning when I saw no breakdown. I do have a glimmer of hope for the Beast's Fury team, but they really need to step their game up.
 
The most technical points of discussion about ways to improve the demo were pretty much completely ignored by E. Dog when he came back here to do damage control for the Kickstarter. He only answered or asked questions related to criticizing the project so that is exactly what he got.

Nothing even about how the demo is coming along as we speak with all the useful feedback he got from knowledgeable posters. You know, PR stuff. Nope, instead the message was, "We need this money or I quit." That's why people said he lacked passion.

If you don't like the direction of the conversation, you change it. Butting heads with your critics isn't the way to go about it.
 
Okie Dokie said:
The most technical points of discussion about ways to improve the demo were pretty much completely ignored by E. Dog when he came back here to do damage control for the Kickstarter. He only answered or asked questions related to criticizing the project so that is exactly what he got.

Nothing even about how the demo is coming along as we speak with all the useful feedback he got from knowledgeable posters. You know, PR stuff. Nope, instead the message was, "We need this money or I quit." That's why people said he lacked passion.

If you don't like the direction of the conversation, you change it. Butting heads with your critics isn't the way to go about it.
He said he put it on his list. I don't think its necessarily fair to straight up say he ignored the gameplay bits or some of the criticisms. Yes, he ran a bit, but this thread WAS full a ton of people telling him his project was doomed and telling him to go play more games. Like, the same suggestion for a long time. I'm not saying he took it in stride or it was undeserved, but he certainly seemed willing to put his 2 cents and take things down for his own use.

honestly this post just seems so...undeserved mean. He did seem to care about the project, but was real about it. He wanted to work on it as a full time thing, but couldn't unless it got funded given his life circumstances. Say what you will about E Dog, but I think you basically took everything he said and boiled it down to "Oh, he took ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from these pages of comments he responded too with thanks for their opinion or responses in kind." Yes, we can all think negatively or postiively about the project, but please don't just say he didn't take any of what we were saying, but I think he did, even if some of it wasn't what the poster meant for him to take from.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CountofBleck
North888 said:
Yes, we can all think negatively or postiively about the project, but please don't just say he didn't take any of what we were saying, but I think he did, even if some of it wasn't what the poster meant for him to take from.
I agree, but it seems he didn't take the main message everyone was complaining about in this thread. The serious financing problems. Pretty much everyone here, including myself, wants to see this project succeed. Yes, demos like this take time and the first crowdfunding campaign only payed for a demo with two full characters. This is the fourth, fifth, whatever time they've come back to crowdfunding without a finished demo. That's part of the problem. I understand that he wants to make this project a full time job but you got to work for it, even if you got to do it for free. I'd love to make a game, but guess what? I have to go to school and learn, pay for said school, then either make my own game or find a job somewhere else. I don't want to pay for school or even go to it. Too bad, I have to if I want to reach my end goal. Money is not going to be handed to you everyday of your life by someone, you've got to earn it. Even if that means spending ten years working on this game before you even make a cent off it. He said that this wasn't his project and he's just working on someone else's project, if he cares about the project then it's also his project.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shooon
Sorry to beat a dead horse as skimming I haven't seen this brought up. But big concern from the financial aspect of things is why did Beast's Fury choose to go with flexible funding on IndyGoGo? Flexible funding itself isn't terrible but you also have your target goal set rather high. Not that this in itself is a problem because I fully believe you need at least that much money to do what you are dreaming of. However, the fact that during what I can only assume would be the height of your potential popularity with egoraptor doing a tweet to be in the game as well as the initial announcement of the Benny character you only raised just short of 50k.
Since then people's willingness to back true Indy titles has diminished for crowdfunding sources since it's prime a few years back, but with higher goals you could still hope for the ability to reach the goal set right?
However let's say you raise twice as much as last time and come out at 100k dollars, still falling short BUT you get to keep the money to do what you can. Because of the way you set up this current IndyGoGo you will lose another nine thousand dollars of money donated by your fans. This is money that is just pissed away if you do not successfully make it to the 185k. Just simple things like this are part of the reason I am so uneasy with your guys work from a financial aspect.
 
I initially was pretty negative about this project because of its aesthetic...but then sort of thought maybe I'll give it a shot if the gameplay is good...Then I watched videos for a bit, and wasn't really that impressed which can absolutely change over time. I might donate if I feel that my contribution would be spent on getting the gameplay together, rather than unneeded bells and whistles.
 
Doesn't Flexible Funding remove the common problem that Mike Z. has talked about where a developer has to ask for a lower amount of money than they really need because they fear they won't make the real cost estimate? It seems like this would relieve some of the pressure that comes with a campaign for them.

Unless it just helps dishonest developers take the money and run, it could set bad precedents but I'm not sure which is a bigger problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zarkingphoton
This doesn't eliminate that problem since Beasts Fury's budget goals are unrealistically low.

Also, IGG keeps 9% of the funds from a flexible funding campaign instead of the usual 4% if the campaign doesn't reach its goal. This actually makes an incentive to set lower goals and try to get continued funds in stretch goals. And in the case where Beasts Fury doesn't make its goals, they end up with 91% of some total that is absolutely not enough to make them motivated enough to work on the demo full time. So why bother with it.

http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2013/03/11242-indiegogo-flexible-funding/
http://timidmonster.com/why-flexible-funding-campaigns-on-indiegogo-are-dangerous/
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pickles
So I just played the demo for Beast Fury and I just got to ask. WHY WOULD YOU HAVE GIGA TIAMAT KNUCKLE CAUSE CRUMPLE! It loses so much impact seeing the guy just stagger to the ground when he could be flying backwards at mach 10. Landing recovery on jumps and weird cooldown on fireballs also suck but that has been mentioned before.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fedora_Ninja
@Okie Dokie I think you're forgetting that Evil-Dog is just the team's current programmer. He can't make any executive decisions, so most of the advice and criticism we were providing weren't immediately useful to him. It's also not fair to say he ignored our gameplay related advice because that's simply not true. He made it clear that he valued our gameplay related feedback and that he was making use of it. He's also not a PR guy and was simply here because he wanted to be...

If you're going to shit talk someone, you could at least pay attention to the conversation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: North888, Wenzel, zarkingphoton and 2 others
MetroKoolAid said:
I agree, but it seems he didn't take the main message everyone was complaining about in this thread. The serious financing problems. Pretty much everyone here, including myself, wants to see this project succeed. Yes, demos like this take time and the first crowdfunding campaign only payed for a demo with two full characters. This is the fourth, fifth, whatever time they've come back to crowdfunding without a finished demo. That's part of the problem. I understand that he wants to make this project a full time job but you got to work for it, even if you got to do it for free. I'd love to make a game, but guess what? I have to go to school and learn, pay for said school, then either make my own game or find a job somewhere else. I don't want to pay for school or even go to it. Too bad, I have to if I want to reach my end goal. Money is not going to be handed to you everyday of your life by someone, you've got to earn it. Even if that means spending ten years working on this game before you even make a cent off it. He said that this wasn't his project and he's just working on someone else's project, if he cares about the project then it's also his project.
You're telling this to the guy attempting to create his own fighter from scratch as a hobby side project. :/ I know all about it. Sure, I'd LOVE to get paid to make my game, but really, why should anyone ask for money without anything to bring to the table yet? Stuff like Bloodstained had a team set up before the kickstarter launched and a mastermind at the head, so people KNEW they had not only expierience in games, but the best o the best on the genre they were making. Beast's Fury has a bunch o people who've worked on other projects, but don't really have much high level knowledge on fighters as a group. They also didn't have much to show aside from cameos from Maximillian and Egoraptor. Now? I think they're showing how unprepared they were. I hope they can take this in stride, but more than that, I hope they learn their lesson for whatever they move onto next.
 
damn he left, i wanted to wish him luck for their next 5 kickstarter campaigns :(((((
 
  • Like
Reactions: dead
Arcana pls.
 
what? did I underestimate the amount of kickstarters for them to complete their first character?
 
At LEAST two more.
 
Arcana said:
damn he left, i wanted to wish him luck for their next 5 kickstarter campaigns :(((((
This is a good sign to close the thread, but since it's updates, I'll only choke-hold it

Good luck to the Beast's Fury crew-- here's to hoping you end up with a product we can all enjoy!
 
  • Like
Reactions: gllt
7 days in and only 1k/185k raised.
 
TBH, I really like Duke Magus's suggestion from a few pages back.

DukeMagus said:
And i'll say the same thing AGAIN:

Why not try something simpler, and cheaper using the idea you have and matching the funds you're asking for?

Beat'em ups are fun and use a tad less frames than a full fledged HD+60FPS HD fighting game. And they make a story mode flow a tad more naturally IMO.

Hell, even Lab Zero had to cut some of their ideas for skullgirls (namely the "Complete" story mode).

Maybe even an RPG using the sprites you have to make the special attacks!

All are viable (and cheaper) options and all need a tad less fine tune on the balancing side.

Not gonna lie, there are some really cool art assets floating around on this project. It'd just be a shame if they ended up wasted on a project that will never get made, or that won't be up to the standards of the genre.

2d brawlers are kind of a dead art form, would be cool to see a new one, and the art style here would make it really unique and stand out. You'd need to learn a lot about that genre too (the 1cc mentality, scoring systems, spacing, etc.) but it'd be a lot simpler than fighting game design which is basically attempting to balance 30 billion different rock-paper-scissors match ups.

Sadly, I'd imagine that the project is too committed to a fighter right now, and that this isn't an option.
 
Last edited:
Did maximilian ever give his thoughts on the whole indiegogo thing? Doesn't look like he dropped out since they still have him on the campaign.
 
CaioLugon said:
Did maximilian ever give his thoughts on the whole indiegogo thing? Doesn't look like he dropped out since they still have him on the campaign.
I know the beasts fury people are around his streams, i remember he reading a message about the beasts fury people giving him the latest build of whatever they have done, but it seems that maximilian is very silent about beasts fury, either he is too busy to give a feedback, or he knows that is probably going to flop so he is keeping himself out of the situation.
 
I'll download, i want to see how is the perspective of someone that doesn't understand fighters too much (me) of this build. =P
 
### v10c ###

Fixes:
- Integrated first version of Vincent's colored finisher.

### v10b ###

Fixes:
- Fixed the damage and meter for Don's Super Fury.
- Made Don's Super Fury not increment the damage scaling.
- Fixed a movement glitch with Don's thresher trash.

Welp. They released a patch just for a colored finisher. Big FUCK U to this thread eh?
And why they want unscaled supers I have no goddamn clue. Like SERIOUSLY?

edit: are there any games that do that besides MvC3 lvl3 supers? Is this their idea of being that one edgy fighting game with hot new mechanics?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Pickles and Era
The dude asked for steps to success and didn't even address them when they were given. I don't know what kind of person would blow off advice from a seasoned developer just because they don't hedge all their criticism, the guy should be on his knees begging for mike's wisdom. The project leader sounds like a real waste of space, can't get funding, doesn't understand the genre, can't budget for shit, can't animate, the list just goes on and on. I hope he's paying himself well with all that kickstarter money.

thank you richard dawkins for delivering this delicious badness unto me, we are truly living in a new golden age.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom
Back