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Beta Wulf Discussion

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Why did you have to make that a spoiler? It's so hard to respond that way.

Zidiane said:
-Why is his grab shorter if he has the chair?
You mean the time available to you off a throw? If it is shorter ever it's probably a bug like the grab being shorter every time after the first one or something. None of that stuff is final.

Zidiane said:
-j.mk and j.hp push Beowulf back a little bit when done to someone in the corner. It looks sorta awkward.
Lots of jumping moves do this, but those two had extra! Fixed.

Zidiane said:
-Is there anything you won't be able to do off of j.hp grab? Cause you can still get the air finisher off of it against a grounded opponent. Is it just to make air stuff harder without actually removing the option?
That's cuz he's still in the air when he grabs them...

Zidiane said:
-It looks silly when the opponent bursts chairless c.hp. I know the move has armor, but still.
Oh actually it should only have armor up through the first hit.

Zidiane said:
-why aren't the chairtoss moves done with kick? j.hk gets rid of chair, kk picks up chair, but qcf p to throw chair? It's weird. Would prefer all of the chair buttons to be either punch or kick (everything but j.hk can be a punch and that'd be fine too).
KK is only pick up because PP is dash. Would you prefer to not be able to dash that way when near the chair?
Toss is QCT+P because K feels odd currently.

Zidiane said:
-I wish hop-j.hp worked.
It intentionally does not.

Zidiane said:
-It would be cool if I could cancel chairless c.hp into chair pickup. His other moves cancel into chair pickup. I'm guessing the reason is "chairless moves can't cancel into chair pickup" but so what boo.
No, the reason is "Grendel arm moves aren't special cancellable", you can't tag or temporary-snapback out of that or c.HK either.

Zidiane said:
-chair being an overhead on chairtoss seems like it could be really good.
Yep!
 
Sorry about the spoiler.
Mike_Z said:
You mean the time available to you off a throw? If it is shorter ever it's probably a bug like the grab being shorter every time after the first one or something. None of that stuff is final.
Oh. I tried to avoid mentioning things that weren't final, but I couldn't tell with that one.

That's cuz he's still in the air when he grabs them...
But you can do j.hp grab against a grounded opponent and then land and then jump and then do air finisher. Or maybe that's fine, I don't know. I don't know how often you will be able to hit chairless j.hp against a grounded opponent anyway.

Toss is QCT+P because K feels odd currently.
I kept trying to qcf+k to throw the chair several times while messing with the chairtoss setup. Even after knowing it was qcf+p. Don't know if that means I'm just odd or what. But I'll wait to see what he gets.

No, the reason is "Grendel arm moves aren't special cancellable", you can't tag or temporary-snapback out of that or c.HK either.
Oh. I could super out of them, so I just figured they were normal except chair pickup.

Yep!
Then all's working as intended. I still feel like the mp/hp tosses looking identical and being different speeds is kind of messed up. But I guess if they defend successfully then you can't just go into it again unless you get the chair back, and even then the mp/hp mixup is corner only.
 
Zidiane said:
I kept trying to qcf+k to throw the chair several times while messing with the chairtoss setup. Even after knowing it was qcf+p. Don't know if that means I'm just odd or what. But I'll wait to see what he gets.
I was doing that too for what it's worth.

Also, it feels really weird playing beowulf and not having command grabs.
 
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Can confirm the Mike Drop actually comboing @Zidiane
 
Trying to input normals after landing from chair j.hp feels really weird. Like I have to hit the button much later than it looks like I should.
 
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chair j.hp is great, and that weird delay you feel is a boon imo. It allows for better recognition of when to do the next normal.
 
cloudKing211 said:
chair j.hp is great, and that weird delay you feel is a boon imo. It allows for better recognition of when to do the next normal.
I mean, if he just would be able to attack sooner you'd still have the same hitstun. You could either quickly go into whatever normal you know you want, or you could wait and see if you hit and then go into whatever you want (like you are forced to do now anyway).
 
Can you reset with a mic drop and then combo off of it? I don't think it is a problem if he can combo but can't reset with it.
 
Triblue said:
Can you reset with a mic drop and then combo off of it? I don't think it is a problem if he can combo but can't reset with it.
He can reset with it, and he can chain c.hp off of the mic drop.
 
I don't know if this is intentional or not, but after beowulf's chair dance finisher, you can sometimes get a hit after the crumple. i think its just a 1 frame link that i keep missing, but even when i mash in slow motion (not recorded) its still inconsistent.


it can be done consistently on BB because c.lp is 2 frames faster, but even with c.lk i wasn't getting any misses. i don't know if that had anything to do with his weight but this was not the case on double (same weight?)

also sorry if this is the wrong forum, it looks like bug reports for for hardware stuff, not gameplay.
 
That chair finisher has weird recovery frames too. Beowulf is like immobile in the air for a second before he lands, and it seems like there's another pause before you can hit something after that. It's really weird cause he's in his idle air pose on the way down, but maybe that's temp.

Combo into mic drop by doing mp, pause, let go. Don't wait for the whole animation to finish on it's own, you have to hold it for a moment.
 
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doubledark said:
how exactly do you combo into mic drop? it's happened a few times to me and it seems random

Just a short button hold of s.MP, it's not any trick. It currently cancels pretty normally so you can also like combo into a mic drop then chain that into HK. You can also link at least a c.LP off a mic drop it if it hits a croucher (maybe just some crouchers, I haven't tested it much). I assume it's just temp, although it's not like it's a great mixup tool with his current movelist (you can cancel to a sweep or to the chair slide if he has the chair on, but that seems like a hella online lag tactic).
 
Can someone enlighten me:
1. is it ok that most of BW's normals have 1 active frame?


2. I found a combo cr.LK, cr.MK, cr.HP, 236MP, (walk forward until last chair hit), cr.MP, cr.HP, (wait *1) LP, MK, HK, KK , cr.LK, cr.MP, HP, 236LP... 236PP\(*2)HP\ walk forward LP,MP,crHP or MK\MP,cr.HP (burst bait) [tested on Cerebella]
*1 why I must worry about timing, opponent's height and 1 active frame? It feels overcomplicated for me.
*2 opponents distance and flying height after 236LP leaving bare minimum time to act (its like 1 frame window for chairless HP to connect and its often out of range). I hope it can be adjusted so Beowulf would have either distance or time to do something if he ends combo with 236LP.

I think its too early to ask something because its WIP... jut want to ask: is it intended level of skill you need to main BW?

3. I also found interesting thing:
standing MP has nice hitbox for burst bait. Can someone add some kind of funny thing for Bursting into microphone?
 
CaioLugon said:
are you serious?

Seems to be the case. It's difficult to get some of the one frame links when the normals themselves are 1-frame.

On a side note, Dead on Time scales terribly, but it's great to use as a DHC due to the forced scaling reset.
 
im sorry but I just checked and it appears that the only move with one active frames is chair 5HP, where are you getting one active frame from?
 
If the move HITS something it is only going to be active for 1f because the hit ends after it makes contact. You have to miss to see the whole picture.
The same is true for everyone.
And yes his only normal with 1 active frame is s.HP with the chair.

Also...
Dr. Kracko said:
It's difficult to get some of the one frame links when the normals themselves are 1-frame.
This statement makes no sense.
Links are neither easier nor harder based on the number of active frames unless the move is hitting meaty, since the first active frame is what connects.
You are not generally hitting with anything meaty in combos, so it doesn't matter how many active frames anything has.
 
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CaioLugon said:
are you serious?
It was a stupid question. My question was stupid. I didn't know how exactly "frame display" worked. Most of his normals has 2-3 active frames. Still its hard to juggle falling opponent after cr.HP (cairless). It kinda frustrates me that I can be too late or too early or mess up the chain (or mess up the chair picking or mess up the spacing so normals after KK will whiff. But it has nothing to do with LP)... When I can roll my face on a keyboard with Fukua or Parasoul or even Valentine and do maximum length combos.


Mike_Z said:
This statement makes no sense.
Links are neither easier nor harder based on the number of active frames unless the move is hitting meaty, since the first active frame is what connects.
You are not generally hitting with anything meaty in combos, so it doesn't matter how many active frames anything has.
It makes sense if you link something while juggling because opponents hitbox is shifting (more frames you got - more chances that opponent will fly into them.)
But I don't know if this counts as "Link".
 
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Now im confused, after c.hp chairless it is fairly easy to "link" into a new chain (is that the right term?) Easier than chair j.hp into new air chain imo, what are you trying to do after c.hp?
 
Arcana said:
Now im confused, after c.hp chairless it is fairly easy to "link" into a new chain (is that the right term?) Easier than chair j.hp into new air chain imo, what are you trying to do after c.hp?
Hexagum said:
cr.LK, cr.MK, cr.HP, 236MP, (if not in the corner walk forward until last chair hit), cr.MP, cr.HP, (wait *1) LP, MK, HK, KK , cr.LK, cr.MP, HP, 236LP, 66MK 236PP
*1 <= this moment. Maybe its not that hard because you can combo after LP (near the corner) even if you hit it to ealy (and opponent is in mid air when HK connects). But still from this moment combo depends on timing and spacing and opponent hitbox. And not just once.
...
Maybe I need to optimize the combo more.
 
chickenwithtie said:
c.LK,MK HP works for me.
Yeah it works better than cr.LK, cr.MP, HP if I get what you mean.

Also you can ...HP, 236LP, 66LK, jLP, jHP 4HP on Fillia. But its hard for me. (full combo in previous post)
 
c.mp, c.hp works just fine.
 
Hexagum said:
When I can roll my face on a keyboard with Fukua or Parasoul or even Valentine and do maximum length combos.
A - that's not true, nor even close. Fukua is closest of anyone, because she's an easy combo character.
B - welcome to learning a new character who works differently!

[edit]
Also, if you are doing a juggle like that, you would be surprised at how little more active frames would help you. 99% of the time people do the next move too LATE, in which case no amount of extra active time will save it.
 
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I'm a fan of chair c.hp's hitbox.
 
Zidiane said:
-why aren't the chairtoss moves done with kick? j.hk gets rid of chair, kk picks up chair, but qcf p to throw chair? It's weird. Would prefer all of the chair buttons to be either punch or kick (everything but j.hk can be a punch and that'd be fine too).

-I wish hop-j.hp worked. Maybe if j.hp was a tiny bit faster? Cause if I do it fast enough, I can see him go horizontal before he lands. Also, hop j.hk can put the chair down without actually attacking the opponent. Just gently stand the chair up, that's how a gentleman operates.

-It would be cool if I could cancel chairless c.hp into chair pickup. His other moves cancel into chair pickup. I'm guessing the reason is "chairless moves can't cancel into chair pickup" but so what boo.

I had a gripe about that in the beginning, because it honestly felt like chair toss should have been with kicks. I kept finding myself pressing kicks when I was coming up with combos. It's fine now.

A faster j.hp would help both hop and normal aircombos, because now it whiffs on certain delayed moves. If it doesn't change, it doesn't really hurt the character, so yeah.

I'm not sure about this one. I think it's fine that it doesn't because it seems like chairless c.hk also follows the same rule. I wouldn't mind if only the first hit of chairless c.hp could cancel into chairgrab though.
 
i love chair j.hp because bad players spam it and run right into all of my anti-airs and die :^)

Edit: also, guys, being able to hopdash>j.hp would be DUMB. Having being as slow as it is already is nice since you can do dash>j.hp(feint) low/throw, btw
 
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I have to say I miss the j.MK j.HK chain. I quite liked doing a lot of hop link combos and that string helped me pick up the chair without using ground normals so I could keep it up.

Can't wait to see what other moves he will get and how his other specials will interact with his current kit/especially the chair.
 
Domo said:
being able to hopdash>j.hp would be DUMB. Having being as slow as it is already is nice since you can do dash>j.hp(feint) low/throw, btw
I highly doubt that hopdash j.hp feint is a good strategy. As soon as you see it, you know it won't hit cause it will never hit so you can just counter with jab into combo (at worst you get combo'd, at best they're plus). Doing it is you basically saying "I'm not going to block for 16 frames and hope they don't know that I can't block or decide to reversal".

I mean, j.hp doesn't do a lot of damage. Only 150 more than j.mk. The best thing I can see coming out of it would be hopdash HCH starter that'd probably be around +19 on block (the lowest j.hp I can land is that). Which is a great thing, yeah, but there are a lot of great things in this game.
 
This is all nothing major, just some visual things to note below

@Mike_Z I was wondering if it would be possible to have a chair "box" kind of like how MF has a "head" box (though i can understand if you don't want beo to have a box, since squiggly tombstone doesnt have one
ogPwTMP.jpg


The issue that kind if made me second look was right after messing around in a corner i noticed beo hitbox go over the chair graphic but hes not in range to get the chair. I don't really care too much if thats the case that the pickup range is smaller than the graphic but it would be nice to see the box since sometimes im out of range as im trying to learn some chair cancel(?) combo's and things like valentine's big cellulite sized body put him out of range of picking up the chair in the corner. Its probably not a huge issue since the only situation i can think of is when val drops out a combo and pushblocks the mixup you cant grab the chair in some situations

vZ8luSV.jpg



Gotta say chairless s.HP cancel into pickup chair looks cool though
Chair pickups on pushblock when out of range (i.e. the moves that make you move forward enough to grab the chair.
http://www.twitch.tv/snackysnacks/c/5567585
 
Zidiane said:
I highly doubt that hopdash j.hp feint is a good strategy. As soon as you see it, you know it won't hit cause it will never hit so you can just counter with jab into combo (at worst you get combo'd, at best they're plus). Doing it is you basically saying "I'm not going to block for 16 frames and hope they don't know that I can't block or decide to reversal".
You literally just described Filia iad throw, and people think that's a good mixup. Do you have difficulty countering that?
 
Zidiane said:
I highly doubt that hopdash j.hp feint is a good strategy. As soon as you see it, you know it won't hit cause it will never hit so you can just counter with jab into combo (at worst you get combo'd, at best they're plus). Doing it is you basically saying "I'm not going to block for 16 frames and hope they don't know that I can't block or decide to reversal".

I mean, j.hp doesn't do a lot of damage. Only 150 more than j.mk. The best thing I can see coming out of it would be hopdash HCH starter that'd probably be around +19 on block (the lowest j.hp I can land is that). Which is a great thing, yeah, but there are a lot of great things in this game.
It works in other games.

One of I-No's main mixups is hover dash j.S or j.HS feint into throw or 2K.

It works because your opponent isn't reacting to the SPECIFIC move, they are reacting to ANY overhead out of the hop.
 
Broken Loose said:
You literally just described Filia iad throw, and people think that's a good mixup. Do you have difficulty countering that?
I'm not sure what you're asking me. But IAD grab can grab you if you jump, so it can actually hit you in circumstances. Hop j.hp will never hit.
Tomo009 said:
It works because your opponent isn't reacting to the SPECIFIC move, they are reacting to ANY overhead out of the hop.
I haven't really played any other games like that. I guess this'll be a new experience for me. But, still, I feel like as soon as they see the animation startup for j.hp, they'll know you aren't hitting them overhead and can do whatever they want to get out of your next mixup. Jump probably would avoid the low/throw, and may even land in time to punish an autopiloted mixup attempt. I don't know what hop startup is before you can hit buttons, but j.hp is 16f, and low/throw is 7f, and their jump startup is 4f, so they have 20f to realize they went for j.hp and then hit up to avoid the mixup. Why not just actually do an 8f (+whatever hop startup is) overhead?
 
It happens way too fast for them to realistically react in that way.

You don't recognise j.HP literally on its first frame and then make the connection that they will low/throw. They are going to be keeping you honest with j.MP and mix it up with j.HP fake into low/throw.

If you do the overhead every time, they will know you are going to do overhead every time, it's essentially 2 50/50s layered on top of each other and characters with hop dashes tend to have very hard to block mixup because of this setup.
 
Oh, this is just probably me but there was a match that I lost track of my own chair and the other beo's chair looked like mine but it wasn't, so I couldn't pick it up. Maybe P1-P2 cursor over it, since you can't move it like Fortune's head. I could also git gud, but that's like, work, you know.
 
Ehhh, I still don't know. Seems like extra effort for no reason, since you can just do a low/high/grab without all that. Guess I'll have to wait and see when it hits PS3.

I'm pretty sure that the chairs atm aren't palettized. They'll probably be unique colors matching the palette soon enough.
 
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