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Blood for the Blood Goddess! Eliza BETA Gameplay Discussion

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idk im kinda back on the fence about the twirly move....if only da hitbox was an eensy bit bigger lol. but yeah the dp is cool. just need to learn distancing more
 
Mike_Z said:
It's invincible up through the first 3ish active frames.

And well, what was planned as her Lv3 might be a Lv1, or a Lv3/Lv5. It probably won't be a Lv3 or Lv5, though, since that would leave her with like, one Lv1...

I'm all for 2 level 3s, It would certainly make her scarier with a battery, and I'd be a nice first for a character to have.
 
So, once we get a character that has a Rocket Punch, will we be able to combo off of Bike Super outside of the corner?
 
Just wondering, but when Eliza stand blocks, her eyes go blank (as in she looks zoned out) and they become dark instead of blue. Is that supposed to happen? It looks weird to me.
 
Yes, we talked about it in the first Eliza thread. It's been there since the first stream we saw of her. I supposed it could be a reference to egyptian paintings
 
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yellowflash26 said:
Just wondering, but when Eliza stand blocks, her eyes go blank (as in she looks zoned out) and they become dark instead of blue. Is that supposed to happen? It looks weird to me.
Its not supposed to happen, i've seen it too but only when im fighting marie
oh nvm
 
chickenwithtie said:
Yes, we talked about it in the first Eliza thread. It's been there since the first stream we saw of her. I supposed it could be a reference to egyptian paintings

Oh. I don't think I saw that. But I thought about that option, and I guess it makes sense, but since that doesn't happen in her crouch block it looked weird to me.
 
Spencer said:
It [molecular shield] didn't seem as reliable as a standard DP, but when it worked... dear god did it work.
Could you please elaborate?
I presume 214+K doesn't have Cerecopter's vacuum effect so it can't be thrown out as impudently (relatively speaking, of course). Also, I have no idea how quick it goes into its active frames (again, console player here).

alexpi said:
So, once we get a character that has a Rocket Punch, will we be able to combo off of Bike Super outside of the corner?
RO-CAT PUNCH. BEEP.BOOP.MEOW.

yellowflash26 said:
Just wondering, but when Eliza stand blocks, her eyes go blank (as in she looks zoned out) and they become dark instead of blue.
As chickenwithtie pointed out, it's a reference to ancient Egyptian frescoes. I annotated it in the Lore topic's cultural/mythological references list.
 
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yellowflash26 said:
Just wondering, but when Eliza stand blocks, her eyes go blank (as in she looks zoned out) and they become dark instead of blue. Is that supposed to happen? It looks weird to me.

I chalked it up to a cleanup/pallete error, but it could be intentional, it does look kinda cool.
 
@Balder

I'd ask Elky for more about actually using it.

Going vs it, though: Yeah it seems like you have to be a bit more cautious with it. It does seem to come out pretty fast, but it doesn't seem to have quite the aggressive hitbox of say updo. That said, Elky was definitely stuffing jump-ins so I think it is probably a decent replacement.

If it hits (or if you block it), they are going to have a long freaking time to do something. Overall I liked what I saw, but again, I'd ask Elky for a more accurate opinion.
 
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Well, the input of those who have to deal with it is also valuable. <(__)>

So, for that other perspective...
@ElkyDori if you could humor me on this - what's your opinion on 214+HK as a assist? Strengths, weaknesses and optimal moments to call it?
 
Balder said:
@ElkyDori if you could humor me on this - what's your opinion on 214+HK as a assist? Strengths, weaknesses and optimal moments to call it?
Its greatest strength is that it's new and it puts the fear of unknowing in opponents. I don't think it's all that great at the moment, though. The invulnerability is brief and the range is short.

Unless you are right on top of your opponent, it isn't going to help. With PW, I was using it while I flew above them, or during my 3-hit launcher which requires very close spacing.

It's a nice little tool for combo extension and situational mixups, so right now I'd only recommend pairing it with a rushdown point.
 
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Yeah like Elky said, it very realistically could be my lack of experience with the MU, but it did take me by surprise a few times. The hitboxes seem to come out fairly quickly.

Does anyone know if her dp (any flavor) works as a reversal?
 
Mike_Z said:
Crossup + twirl assist. It's not a DP, wtf Skullgirls community.

The use of M twirl is that it makes it so if you do QCB+MK you get a special move instead of nothing. :^P

WOW! Just, Oh my gosh. Mr. Zaimont you are by far the most helpful person on this website. It's just that... you know so much about this game. It's all most like you made the game itself or something. Just wow, you are my new hero. :PUN:
 
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Ninja said:
WOW! Just, Oh my gosh. Mr. Zaimont you are by far the most helpful person on this website. It's just that... you know so much about this game. It's all most like you made the game itself or something. Just wow, you are my new hero. :PUN:
What I meant was, I had to make three versions so you're lucky the L or M versions even exist. :^)
 
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Balder said:
if you could humor me on this - what's your opinion on 214+HK as a assist? Strengths, weaknesses and optimal moments to call it?
Whenever you would call Copter..

It's lockdown, so if you connect something with your opponent, call assist and you get some free mixups + made whatever you just tried to do safe + get combos out of it if it hit
It launches the opponent slightly in the air, so you can use it during combos for tricky crossunder resets.
It has a pretty nice hitbox (though there's a short period where it won't be active), so you can randomly call it at neutral to gain some space.
etc whatever

Spencer said:
Does anyone know if her dp (any flavor) works as a reversal?
It's invincible and it can hit people so uh, yes. By nature of its (small) hitbox, the (lack of) combo potential out of it, (nonexistent) safety on block etc it's not a very good one by any means, though.
H doesn't work as it's way too far, L is what I described, M might have a future?? I don't know, I don't think it will ever be good.

Calling it (any version) as assist *seems* pretty shit.
I guess H is an alright Anti-Peacock assist as it reaches far and Eliza is invinc through the active frame so it's "guaranteed" (sans 2f assist startup) to actually come out and possibly interrupt her zoning patterns.
It's pretty much an invincible Ringlet Spike, so take that as what you will.
It's nice if the opponent is where it hits, but how are you gonna keep him in that specific space, and if you can already do that without an assist, wouldn't you benefit from an assist that isn't just a win-more? etc.

E: I liked the idea someone tossed somewhere where M does miniscule amounts of damage but builds a lot of meter, so you could choose to end your combos with a metergain special / use it as a metergain assist / whatever
Overall I don't think it matters that M isn't very useful, how many people are complaining about L/M Hairball, Fukua M Drill, whatever? None. But metergain things would be cool either way :P
 
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Mike_Z said:
What I meant was, I had to make three versions so you're lucky the L or M versions even exist. :^)

Thanks Based Catz. wtFvONn - Imgur.png
 
Maybe M dp could work as a good reversal assist with pw for the same reason fiber is the best fot her. Also, if you can combo out of it midscreen, it could be a good alpha counter.
 
Mike_Z said:
What I meant was, I had to make three versions so you're lucky the L or M versions even exist. :^)
Late game unsolicited opinion time: Why not do something like Squigly where you don't do the whole l>m>h variant for that one attack? Instead just make it QCB+hk and if desired give QCB+lk/mk another attack.
Not saying that the light and medium variants are bad or anything, but one of the things I find baffling coming from a background of non-capcom inspired fighting games is always having to spread specials across 3 strengths.
 
CaioLugon said:
Maybe M dp could work as a good reversal assist with pw for the same reason fiber is the best fot her. Also, if you can combo out of it midscreen, it could be a good alpha counter.
I had HP Egyptian Statue used against me as an assist and it is actually a pretty good neutral assist. Obviously not for a normal rushdown character but Peacock, Squigly and yeah even PW I think could use it well.

The hitstun is so absurdly long that PW could probably get into fly and convert off it while calling.

It fills a pretty big area on the screen, sort of like an invincible Fukua MK shadow that is MUCH faster but only hits in one place. Just be aware that it is not a GTFO, totally useless as one.
 
Yeah i was using hp dp as an assist for pw and mostly what i took from that was "man look at all that hitstun! Wish i could convert it into something"

Sadly it looks rather hard to actually convert because of how high it launches. You like need top preconfirm the hit and then superjump just after the assist hits... In practice it would probably be even harder to convert on reaction for pw than fiber. Mp dp looks somewhat solid, it has everything pw wants except big enough hitstun to actually confirm.

So far Eliza's assists are loooking lackluster with the exception of using hp dp as a long range poke... And the only character that looks to REALLY be able to take advantage of that is peacock. Peacock would also be a decent boat user... But that it self will get Eliza killed as an assist and also give free techs towards peacock on hit. There doesnt seem to be a really good twirl user besides double...


There could also be filia as a good hk twirl user... You dont want to block her, you dont want to get hit by her... You basically dont want filia anywhere near you, like usual just 10 times more of an overall annoyance.

So that means using Eliza anchor if filia is second... Which i dont like. Or Eliza second with filia point which seems much better. At that point it just needs to be found what Eliza's best assist to help her is... With Eliza's natural poking strength and long range slow overheads, mk bomber looks like a super solid choice for her. So that is my theory fighter good for Eliza team:


Filia/Eliza/double it has the most backwards and forwards synergy and doesnt really seem to cripple itself anywhere.


Closest we could get to this being high level quickly would be on winnies team afaik.
 
I think we need a closeup character who likes chipping a lot to really make use of HK twirl.

HK twirl is a nice alternative to Cerecopter though. We have 3 main alternatives in my eyes: Squigly 2HP: Less range but safer and is a LOW which is critical; Fillia HK hairball pushes them back but is also quite long and doubles as an OK anti assist assist; Eliza HK twirl which is much shorter range and doesn't have much other utility, but does a large chunk of chip, enough to be significant.
 
PaperBag_Sniper said:
Late game unsolicited opinion time: Why not do something like Squigly where you don't do the whole l>m>h variant for that one attack? Instead just make it QCB+hk and if desired give QCB+lk/mk another attack.
Because everything else she has covers all 3 buttons, so there's nothing left to go with it.
The other alternative is just to give her the HK version on all Kicks, like Doom has. :^P
 
Mike_Z said:
Because everything else she has covers all 3 buttons, so there's nothing left to go with it.
The other alternative is just to give her the HK version on all Kicks, like Doom has. :^P
That's way to boring.
I like having variants, helps add a layer of strategy.
 
Tomo009 said:
I think we need a closeup character who likes chipping a lot to really make use of HK twirl.

HK twirl is a nice alternative to Cerecopter though. We have 3 main alternatives in my eyes: Squigly 2HP: Less range but safer and is a LOW which is critical; Fillia HK hairball pushes them back but is also quite long and doubles as an OK anti assist assist; Eliza HK twirl which is much shorter range and doesn't have much other utility, but does a large chunk of chip, enough to be significant.

It also buys your active point character quite a bit of time to do other things if you can work it into a combo. You can fit Big Band’s taunt in safely and even just barely get jazz out after, but I haven’t been able to get the super to combo at normal game speed more than once.
 
OnyxBones said:
It also buys your active point character quite a bit of time to do other things if you can work it into a combo. You can fit Big Band’s taunt in safely and even just barely get jazz out after, but I haven’t been able to get the super to combo at normal game speed more than once.
Hint: F,HP,MP,LP+(kick button that determines assist),F works to get assist + taunt.
 
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Mike_Z said:
The use of M twirl is that it makes it so if you do QCB+MK you get a special move instead of nothing. :^P

I'm guessing you place the same logic behind the existence of Napalm Trigger and Napalm Quake?
 
but napalm trigger is amazing
and napalm quake is pretty good

M twirl is nowhere near as useful atm

Edit: weird updating happened here
 
you can go for a pretty easy grab reset with LK twirl
 
Cheesedragon said:
I'm guessing you place the same logic behind the existence of Napalm Trigger and Napalm Quake?
Trigger sets off all tears and doesn't hit. Quake hits low, restands, and is supercancellable during the entire animation.

Nothing good has come to mind yet for M twirl...metergain vs damage not really useful because later in a combo it would just give the opponent a HUGE amount and not have much less damage, jump cancel maybe but I don't really want it to be a combo tool...
 
Mike_Z said:
Trigger sets off all tears and doesn't hit. Quake hits low, restands, and is supercancellable during the entire animation.

Nothing good has come to mind yet for M twirl...metergain vs damage not really useful because later in a combo it would just give the opponent a HUGE amount and not have much less damage, jump cancel maybe but I don't really want it to be a combo tool...

How about the middle one causing a knockdown? Could be useful in a corner tbh
 
Based on the animation of the MK version, some potential properties to add come to mind:

-Its hits on the way back down are overheads. ( Doesn't look they would be if the other version’s aren't. )
-Causes a knockdown. ( Looks like it wouldn't compared to HK version.)
-Vacuum effect that corner pulls and allows easier crossovers. ( Does nothing for Eliza herself and has a fairly short range.)

Best thing I can come up with is to delay the last hit slightly and make it an overhead that causes a hard knock down.
 
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