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Dev Communications on Recent Beta Development

Nuuance

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apologies for any miscommunication
edited: thanks @Stuff - devs/FC much appreciated for the work but do have concerns

its been said in forums a bunch by a few, and not trying to dwell but the lack of communication of future updates has been rough. No one's asking for rushed content and are happy to wait or pay more money. But it feels bad waiting for updates when most other companies have chimed in at least a bit. SF6 is coming soon and we even know pretty big details w/that already.

It's been a year and unfortunately havent really heard anything substantial. it's frustrating because it almost seems like no matter how measured, there's not really a response.

Doesnt have to be set in stone, but something. anything would be great to hear.

I'm sure people will play SG after project L, MK12, StriveUpdates, or SF6 release regardless because of previous time investments, but to be brutally honest, idk how this way of going about things is positive. It's words...simply words. No rush on anything or demand features sooner than ready. But it feels bittersweet seeing a video on character development and being in the dark about the general future past DLC. If updates'll be more of an SG2 thing (if even possible) & this game is just 'it' then thats cool.

Dahlia im sure will be shape up with all the feedback given & echoed, but really hoping for communication. The snippets on character design were cool, but would be desirable to get more.
 
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said 50 times already but the lack of communication of future updates is some of the worst non-communication ive seen...straight up. No one's asking for rushed content and are happy to wait or pay more money. But the fact almost every other japanese company who have a penchant for ignoring their playerbase have responded & actually addressed grievances makes this whole thing so incredibly sour.

zero surveys. zero communication. zero anything.
Even DNF who killed their game said something tho it took 2 months.
It's been over a year.

A year.

Like seriously, what is the roadmap with the game & the rest of the cast &/or features. Doesnt have to be set in stone, but SOMETHING. ANYTHING. To the people who play the heck out of this game. It's almost like feedback isnt looked at anymore, even though people still hoping, suggesting interesting changes/refinements week to week. SF6 isnt even out yet & we know more about the future of that game than SG. it's Just odd.

I'm sure some people will play SG after project L, MK12, StriveUpdates, or SF6 release regardless because of previous time investments, but to be brutally honest, idk how this way of going about things is positive. It's words...simply words. And we cant even get that. Again, no one's ever tried to rush anything or demand features sooner than ready. But it feels insulting to have a video feature on designing characters & when it comes to tuning them up, people are hardly listened to or no acknowledgement is given. It might be blasphemy but it makes me miss the older days when a certain someone at least could be upfront w/the players who keep the game going in the first place. If it'll be more of an SG2 thing (if even possible) & this game is just 'it' then fine, but like say something so we're not wasting our time scouring forums or talking on a bunch of feedback that's not even seen.

Dahlia im sure will be shape up with all the feedback given & echoed, but there needs to be some real communication for a change. Not a snippet on character design, only to ignore repeated feedback when you get it. idk what's the deal but this isnt fun or interactive

absurdly weenie-pilled post jfc dude what are you on about
 

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said 50 times already but the lack of communication of future updates is some of the worst non-communication ive seen...straight up. No one's asking for rushed content and are happy to wait or pay more money. But the fact almost every other japanese company who have a penchant for ignoring their playerbase have responded & actually addressed grievances makes this whole thing so incredibly sour.

zero surveys. zero communication. zero anything.
Chill Nuuance, they're a really small development team that has to manage bug fixes, implementing new characters, and trying to balance old characters all at the same time. Gven how the Annie patch cycle went, I'm not surprised they want to take a more quiet approach to the community during balance season.
 

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absurdly weenie-pilled post jfc dude what are you on about
Not here for the insults but looking back i see how the post comes off more inflammatory than a report of frustrating things itself. I honestly thought it wasnt that bad at first. edited. So i understand why the response, but it's not the vibe.

Chill Nuuance, they're a really small development team that has to manage bug fixes, implementing new characters, and trying to balance old characters all at the same time. Gven how the Annie patch cycle went, I'm not surprised they want to take a more quiet approach to the community during balance season.
the team was small before and there was more communication & just as well in the beginning of Annie there was a lot of communication...no ones asking for complete plans & just as well it's been a year. A simple sentence, paragraph or anything doesnt take a lot to say. It's not demanding specific changes, its asking about the future of SG. cleared up the post so hopefully makes more sense.
 
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Chill Nuuance, they're a really small development team that has to manage bug fixes, implementing new characters, and trying to balance old characters all at the same time. Gven how the Annie patch cycle went, I'm not surprised they want to take a more quiet approach to the community during balance season.
Tbh he has a point. While I'm grateful for what we're getting rn, there's no denying that FC (Future club) could do a bit better in the communication department. Like seriously, look at what Arcsystem has been doing for Strive. Major gameplay updates, Surveys, Developer posts etc. Meanwhile SG is taking almost a year to make 1 DLC character and not much else gameplay wise. Sure we've gotten stuff on Beta like Beo being able to recall his chair recall thing or Sekmet getting a new super but those aren't meaningful enough imo. It's headed in the right direction but still not quite enough. Honestly, if FC were to follow in Arcsystems footsteps, SG would be popping off way more than it already is. Sure they may be a smaller team but I don't think them being a smaller team is a completely valid excuse. They might not be able to do things on the level of Arcsystem but surely the could do more than what they're doing right now, no? Then again, I have no idea what goes on in the developement process, so obviously my idea on certain things are bound to be incorrect but I don't think asking to for better communication or gameplay updates similar to Strive is asking for too much imo. Anyways, that's just my opinion
 
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Stuff

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I do dislike that there's less communication and would love more of it because the previous dev team did that more often and we got beta changes very frequently. HOWEVER, I'm pretty sure the only reason it was like that was because everyone was unhealthily crunching just to make budget and that's not a good thing for a small dev team and we still have a small dev team that now juggles TWO games instead of just the one.

As much as I'd like more updates and like a general idea of what's going on, I'm not so sure I want it at the expense of the team's sanity.

Like, waiting on the patch has been, maybe not the most comfortable I've been and having no ETA can be a little frustrating but yeah.

IDK how to put it into words but I think it's fair to acknowledge that the work culture is (probably) healthier at the expense of less updates and while waiting stinks with no idea of how long the wait is I just think it's probably better this way for the dev team.

I think it's just a standard case of growing pains and while I'm not super happy about it I don't think it's really fair to shit on the team working on it, there's better ways to word stuff if you want to be heard. (I myself have asked for updates on the forum but hopefully it was worded nicely 'cause that's what I'm usually aiming for.)

I can understand the frustration but there's better ways to go about it, I'd love to have like a dev post that lets us know what's up but I don't think dogging on them about it is a good idea either.

FWIW I'm pretty sure they do read this stuff they just probably don't want to respond because I mean, honestly I wouldn't want to either lol.

idk if I'm making sense but I think the short of it was, they're a small team, it's frustrating to wait as long as we have, HOWEVER, I don't think dogging the new team is very helpful and I'm sure they do read this stuff but progress takes time.

(and also FWIW I think HVS is expanding judging by the open positions they have so they probably have their own growing pains and hopefully the new talent helps take on this large task)

A lot of the other devs you're listing are also probably studios that crunch a FUCK TON and that isn't healthy just to give updates as often as they do.

I'd still like a post every once in a while but hey, I feel a little better knowing they probably (hopefully) aren't crunching like before with the previous dev despite missing the week to week beta updates but I think to some degree we got a little spoiled. I'd still like a dev note every once in a while over these large stretches of time but ye. (I do think they listen though given that they take note of bugs and fix them)

am I making sense?

SHORTEST VERSION: Dev team less crunch? Good. Dev team posting? A newsletter or something at whatever frequency would be cool but I'd rather it not cost Dev team sanity points.
 
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Will

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I do dislike that there's less communication and would love more of it because the previous dev team did that more often and we got beta changes very frequently. HOWEVER, I'm pretty sure the only reason it was like that was because everyone was unhealthily crunching just to make budget and that's not a good thing for a small dev team and we still have a small dev team that now juggles TWO games instead of just the one.

As much as I'd like more updates and like a general idea of what's going on, I'm not so sure I want it at the expense of the team's sanity.

Like, waiting on the patch has been, maybe not the most comfortable I've been and having no ETA can be a little frustrating but yeah.

IDK how to put it into words but I think it's fair to acknowledge that the work culture is (probably) healthier at the expense of less updates and while waiting stinks with no idea of how long the wait is I just think it's probably better this way for the dev team.

I think it's just a standard case of growing pains and while I'm not super happy about it I don't think it's really fair to shit on the team working on it, there's better ways to word stuff if you want to be heard. (I myself have asked for updates on the forum but hopefully it was worded nicely 'cause that's what I'm usually aiming for.)

I can understand the frustration but there's better ways to go about it, I'd love to have like a dev post that lets us know what's up but I don't think dogging on them about it is a good idea either.

FWIW I'm pretty sure they do read this stuff they just probably don't want to respond because I mean, honestly I wouldn't want to either lol.

idk if I'm making sense but I think the short of it was, they're a small team, it's frustrating to wait as long as we have, HOWEVER, I don't think dogging the new team is very helpful and I'm sure they do read this stuff but progress takes time.

(and also FWIW I think HVS is expanding judging by the open positions they have so they probably have their own growing pains and hopefully the new talent helps take on this large task)

A lot of the other devs you're listing are also probably studios that crunch a FUCK TON and that isn't healthy just to give updates as often as they do.

I'd still like a post every once in a while but hey, I feel a little better knowing they probably (hopefully) aren't crunching like before with the previous dev despite missing the week to week beta updates but I think to some degree we got a little spoiled. I'd still like a dev note every once in a while over these large stretches of time but ye. (I do think they listen though given that they take note of bugs and fix them)

am I making sense?

SHORTEST VERSION: Dev team less crunch? Good. Dev team posting? A newsletter or something at whatever frequency would be cool but I'd rather it not cost Dev team sanity points.
Sorry if I made it sound as if I was talking down on / attacking Future club because of the slow updates, that was never my intention and I agree with you. I definitly don't want the devs to overwork themselves just for the sake of pushing out content but at the same time, the devs are going to have to address some of the issues I've mentioned eventually and it would be better if they do sooner rather than later. The longer they wait to do so, the more people are going to get frustrated and may even drive people away from caring about the game. Case and point, look at what's happening with DNF.
 

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Honestly, if FC were to follow in Arcsystems footsteps, SG would be popping off way more than it already is. Sure they may be a smaller team but I don't think them being a smaller team is a completely valid excuse. They might not be able to do things on the level of Arcsystem but surely the could do more than what they're doing right now, no? Then again, I have no idea what goes on in the developement process, so obviously my idea on certain things are bound to be incorrect but I don't think asking to for better communication or gameplay updates similar to Strive is asking for too much imo. Anyways, that's just my opinion

Probably a little bit off-topic, but official dev communications, like the Strive dev blog, is a business endeavour that does cost time and resources. Communications from the devs need to be prepared, edited and vetted, which would require editors, marketers and probably even legal professionals to work on, not to mention the lost time from the devs that they could be doing their main jobs. Strive has a huge marketing budget and it's something Arcsys is able to afford to do, and more power to them.

Like you say, HVS and FC are both smaller devs and don't have quite the same resources to put out the same kind of regular communication on the development process. However, FC does have their weekly art streams where there are usually 1 or 2 devs available on stream who would do Q&A sessions. Maybe that's something you would like to catch if you're interested in the game's development process, although obviously they would be limited in what they are able to answer.

Back in the Lab Zero days, we used to have a lot more honest and unguarded comments and updates from the devs. Personally, I also liked that, but in the long run it was to the detriment for the team and part of the reasons that led to the company's implosion. I can understand why the current devs are taking a more conventional approach to fan interactions.
 

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Sorry if I made it sound as if I was talking down on / attacking Future club because of the slow updates, that was never my intention and I agree with you. I definitly don't want the devs to overwork themselves just for the sake of pushing out content but at the same time, the devs are going to have to address some of the issues I've mentioned eventually and it would be better if they do sooner rather than later. The longer they wait to do so, the more people are going to get frustrated and may even drive people away from caring about the game. Case and point, look at what's happening with DNF.
I was mostly responding to Nuuance but was too lazy to quote reply. Sorry about that, though I guess some of what I wrote applied somewhat maybe, I'm not really good with words.

The way I see it rn though is that it's been quiet probably to focus on a lot of balance changes maybe and they just have to wait until the last SG major this year.
 

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Probably a little bit off-topic, but official dev communications, like the Strive dev blog, is a business endeavour that does cost time and resources. Communications from the devs need to be prepared, edited and vetted, which would require editors, marketers and probably even legal professionals to work on, not to mention the lost time from the devs that they could be doing their main jobs. Strive has a huge marketing budget and it's something Arcsys is able to afford to do, and more power to them.

Like you say, HVS and FC are both smaller devs and don't have quite the same resources to put out the same kind of regular communication on the development process. However, FC does have their weekly art streams where there are usually 1 or 2 devs available on stream who would do Q&A sessions. Maybe that's something you would like to catch if you're interested in the game's development process, although obviously they would be limited in what they are able to answer.

Back in the Lab Zero days, we used to have a lot more honest and unguarded comments and updates from the devs. Personally, I also liked that, but in the long run it was to the detriment for the team and part of the reasons that led to the company's implosion. I can understand why the current devs are taking a more conventional approach to fan interactions.
@Stuff too. Agreed. And yeah youre right, looking back, we're all just trying to sit tight
 
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fwiw on 6/28 the patch notes does say that they're holding on to other balance changes but put the robo change in specfically because it affected b dahlia so much since then we've gotten a lot of B dahlia changes so I figure the rest are being saved for after the last SG major of the year. Honestly we've gotten monthly updates, maybe not the most substantial ones when it comes to older characters but it seems to be something they'll do later, granted it'd help if there was more clarity there like "We have the other updates but we're aiming to try them out after the last major so hopefully we can test b dahlia and any balance changes before her release" but idk.

Anyway, if you're uncomfortable with getting flak, it helps to not write things the way you just did, tone on the internet is already hard (the internet is generally a hyperbolic place) but it also reads like an angry person dissing the studio esp the intro part (kinda like venting, which I know a lot about), that could've been worded better 'cause honestly if I was the dev team I'd just think you're angry and ignore it since you kind of sound like you don't have respect for me so why should I for you, that sort of thing.

Like, I feel uncomfortable writing down any changes I want because I feel bad when I do (I don't want to argue with anybody because it's subjective but god do I also hate bugging the dev team I feel like I'm SUPER annoying), but I gotta sometimes and when I do I try veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery hard to write as nicely as possible (although admittedly I do fail sometimes) because if you don't write with some level of respect why would anyone want to listen?

I'm not saying personal attacks are okay but you're kind of slapping first sometimes. And yeah, people complain outside of Skullheart but at least in those places it's optional, they have to come here and read stuff as part of their job. I would fucking DREAD coming here if I had to as part of my job let alone argue with my playerbase.
 
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fwiw on 6/28 the patch notes does say that they're holding on to other balance changes but put the robo change in specfically because it affected b dahlia so much since then we've gotten a lot of B dahlia changes so I figure the rest are being saved for after the last SG major of the year. Honestly we've gotten monthly updates, maybe not the most substantial ones when it comes to older characters but it seems to be something they'll do later, granted it'd help if there was more clarity there like "We have the other updates but we're aiming to try them out after the last major so hopefully we can test b dahlia and any balance changes before her release" but idk.

Anyway, if you're uncomfortable with getting flak, it helps to not write things the way you just did, tone on the internet is already hard but it also reads like an angry person dissing the studio esp the intro part (kinda like venting, which I know a lot about), that could've been worded better 'cause honestly if I was the dev team I'd just think you're angry and ignore it since you kind of sound like you don't have respect for me so why should I for you, that sort of thing.

Like, I feel uncomfortable writing down any changes I want because I feel bad when I do (I don't want to argue with anybody because it's subjective but god do I also hate bugging the dev team I feel like I'm SUPER annoying), but I gotta sometimes and when I do I try veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery hard to write as nicely as possible (although admittedly I do fail sometimes) because if you don't write with some level of respect why would anyone want to listen?

I'm not saying personal attacks are okay but you're kind of slapping first sometimes. And yeah, people complain outside of Skullheart but at least in those places it's optional, they have to come here and read stuff as part of their job.
Yeah, tone is definitely tough sometimes, cant really hear that with text, only the words themselves which initially seemed ok. Apologies for any miscommunication. Definitely not angry or dissing, but for sure a bit frustrating being in the dark.
 
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Stuff

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Even if you think that's the truth there's still a better way to word it, like I said, why would I want to listen to you if you just massively complained about me in a negative light? (I'm pretending I'm the dev here) You're just burning your platform before it's even your turn to speak.

It would be like if I just went "I've said it 50 times now but you just don't block, some of the worst blocking, other people block. 0 high blocks 0 low blocks 0 air blocks even little timmy blocks and they're the biggest masher I've ever seen where's your blocks?"
because that's hurtful and negative it might be the truth but you can write stuff like that nicer like "You try to punish me often but I'm generally in advantage, I think it would be helpful to lab out my strings to find proper openings", if you don't want to posture and write nicer then you just gotta accept a lot of people won't like you and grow to hate you. If you think you did nothing wrong and yet everyone seems upset with you I think you should try to get a different outlook on life.

Like idk if you're on my ass about my workflow why would I want to work with you? 'cause it reads like a scolding mother and bro if I wanted to get scolded I'd just visit my mom.

Anyway, this is getting off topic, I'm Stuff.

Buffing Painwheel would be neat but I know it's already on the list, see you then.
 

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Even if you think that's the truth there's still a better way to word it, like I said, why would I want to listen to you if you just massively complained about me in a negative light? (I'm pretending I'm the dev here) You're just burning your platform before it's even your turn to speak.

It would be like if I just went "I've said it 50 times now but you just don't block, some of the worst blocking, other people block. 0 high blocks 0 low blocks 0 air blocks even little timmy blocks and they're the biggest masher I've ever seen where's your blocks?"
because that's hurtful and negative it might be the truth but you can write stuff like that nicer like "You try to punish me often but I'm generally in advantage, I think it would be helpful to lab out my strings to find proper openings", if you don't want to posture and write nicer then you just gotta accept a lot of people won't like you and grow to hate you. If you think you did nothing wrong and yet everyone seems upset with you I think you should try to get a different outlook on life.

Like idk if you're on my ass about my workflow why would I want to work with you? 'cause it reads like a scolding mother and bro if I wanted to get scolded I'd just visit my mom.

Anyway, this is getting off topic, I'm Stuff.

Buffing Painwheel would be neat but I know it's already on the list, see you then.
thanks for that...good point.
edited for simplicity/clearer tone. Please ignore previous version, it wasnt meant to come off harsh. Only point out whats been frustrating, not the response be frustrating itself.

I guess the main takeaway is dont mind waiting or paying...just want to know what's going on from here on out even vaguely specific.
 
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Robo-Fortune came into Beta on February 15th 2015. Here are the dates of the patch notes that dropped until her release

2/15
2/18
2/19
2/23
3/5
3/6
3/7
3/15
3/21
3/23
3/28

4/1
4/4
4/11
4/23
4/27
4/29
4/30

5/2
5/3
5/5
5/6
5/7
5/11
5/13
5/19
5/30

6/1
6/2
6/5
6/8
6/10 :D
6/12
6/15



Umbrella came into beta August 31st 2021. Here are the dates of the patch notes that dropped until her release
8/31
9/1
9/7
9/10
9/14
9/17
9/20
10/4
10/21
10/26

11/10
12/9
12/10
12/16
12/21

*
3/14
3/15
3/21
3/23
3/24
4/14



*
Ultra Epic 4 month holiday gap that was preceded by stark changes to umbrellas bubbles that made people mald super hard TO THIS DAY

Black Dahlia came into beta June 16th 2022. Here are the dates of patch notes that dropped until her release

6/16
6/17
6/28
7/27
7/28

8/18
8/19


We are now one month past this date at 9/17 no updates haha



I have my opinions on how the dev culture has changed. But the nature of Future Clubs existence, how skullgirls is and was, is so, so, so extraordinary thats impossible to find a balance between what I want as a player and what I owe to these people as a person.

The only thing I have to say, being the one to say it is that, things are different. As a PLAYER WHOSE INTEREST IS TO ENJOY THE GAME AND NOTHING ELSE things are very much not as positive for me as they could be. The update cycle is slower and farther inbetween, big long gaps, not as much communication, direct channel, no person to have down to earth petty arguments with, and potentially get stuffed change as a result (which was fun for me.) Sometimes I imagine what Mike would have done in his hubris if he had seen Cloud's Val whiff bypass on the Combo Breaker stage that costed him.

I dont think its unfair to say a good amount of our playerbase feels that way. It probably feels amazing to be one of our newer players who doesnt have to be spoiled by the way we had it in older days, but at the same time yeah. We've had all this forum discussion about Fortune Nerfs/Character Fixes/State of the Game mentality for months but theres been no indication to how much of it actually mattered or influenced or was correct/incorrect, and that creates a bit of ennui.

Nuuance making his headass angry post is sad because the discussion went into him cooling down and others identifying points he had actually did have in his anger post. I would probably guess that other people probably feel like him, but dont feel bothered enough to make a post like his on the forum or care too much about the members of the current team to want to upset them as they are doing a lot of hard work.

TL:DR: Things are different nowadays and i think its ok to feel bad about it. but it also feels like what are we even doing here anymore
 
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Yeah, I don't want to come off as entitled but I do wish things could be better here and there and I'm trying to be very understanding but it's a little frustrating to feel like I'm talking to a wall most of the time. (Though I'm very good at talking to walls.)

Regarding the previous dev, Mike: idk man some stuff took a really long time to get changed, look how often pw got buffed over the stretch of the entire game, this girl didn't have unfly until like Big Band edition or something that's CRAZY (and we didn't get a visual for unfly guard cancel until last year to that end I'm pretty sure a lot of people don't know it's a mechanic in the game) I think she got a second low at Squigly. And even then lots of stuff went unfixed (pw in general, bypass bug has been a thing for years) and lots of the new ui stuff was stuff he didn't even want to do and those are cool features so idk. The guy was kind of omega biased sometimes. I'll give credit where credit is due though, the frequent updates were a herculean task I'd never ask anyone to do. We were def spoiled in that regard, not even triple AAA FGs did that.
 
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I think this is a valid discussion, but since this is the "unofficial official beta thread" and I understand that the devs actually monitor this thread for actual feedbacks on the beta, let's not clutter this thread with too many non-gameplay-related discussions. You guys could continue this in a new thread if you want.
 

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I think this is a valid discussion, but since this is the "unofficial official beta thread" and I understand that the devs actually monitor this thread for actual feedbacks on the beta, let's not clutter this thread with too many non-gameplay-related discussions. You guys could continue this in a new thread if you want.
for sure, wasnt trying to derail, only ask if we should continue to post (as much) in the first place because of the aforementioned. just has felt a little frustrating not knowing. thanks for the patience.
 
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TL:DR: Things are different nowadays and i think its ok to feel bad about it. but it also feels like what are we even doing here anymore
If your lack of enjoyment with the game/community is based on a perceived lack of engagement on the part of the developers then you should just take a break from the game/skullheart instead of polluting the thread with a post that was 75% empty space because you didn't want to edit color-coded update lists into a more readable format.

Beta update quantity does not reflect game quality. If the developers are having to juggle issues like how to fine-tune established characters alongside designing and implementing more complex characters like Umbrella and Dhalia in addition to sorting through the game to root out bugs, I would rather they be handled through less-frequent updates instead of hotfixes and beta balance changes that are reverted over the course of a weekend.
 
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If your lack of enjoyment with the game/community is based on a perceived lack of engagement on the part of the developers then you should just take a break from the game/skullheart
This feels like you are misconstruing my point. I first would ask you to identify where I say I dont enjoy the game or the community.

Secondly, I will attempt to make my point more clear by saying that I think the forum discussion for a lot of this season pass' cycle has been somewhat aimless. A lot of nerfs to Fortune/Pea we're reverted, A lot of requested QOL hasnt had a statement upon, and theres no metric as to what posts are actually making an influence into the game, which are not, and which are correct points and which are not.

These are the points that I bring up to support what you call a "Perceived" lack of engagement. There are currently 4 main platforms that I can only assume are what the developers currently monitor. They being Maincord, This forum thread, Twitch, and Twitter. There are many people who disregard Skullheart for a multitude of reasons, and their discussions splits off into subtweets, twitch discussion, or more secular discord discussion. All of the actual discussion for the game is decentralized, and there isn't really a form of feedback as to what posts are being heard, what posts are being disregarded, and so forth and so on.

I consider that a Problem because it creates a very hard to define description for what elements make modern skullgirls "skullgirls"
Elements such as:

-Is the current two touch meta what skullgirls should be? Should characters be weened down in their damage to create more resets/interactions? Should other characters be brought up to this standard of power? Should differences exist as they do and tuning be more creative in balance?

-What is the top tier of modern skullgirls characters supposed to be? Are characters like Peacock and Fortune products of their base-game time? Are they going to be brought down, or modernized? Are other characters going to meet their standards of power? How should we go about solving this when the community is divided on these points. There are people including myself who wanna see other characters brought up to this volatile level of power. There are others who rightfully believe that a version of this game is healthier if Peacock and Fortune or Annie dont outclass half the cast. There are others who rightfully believe that Mid-Tiers should exist, probably as the mid tiers that arguably exist now

I ask you how the community decides how any of these things are correct or incorrect. What objectives force, please answer me, communicates to us the very answer to the question of "What is the kind of game skullgirls should be." Arguments on this very platform, over a videogame, have created spite and distaste for and between a lot of people, and no one can even be sure if their side of the argument is correct.
instead of polluting the thread with a post that was 75% empty space because you didn't want to edit color-coded update lists into a more readable format.
I actually want to thank you for this bit of contructive criticism, as biting as it is, is a legitimate point and I apologize for it. I will remedy this by spoilering the colored dates. To clarify, the color coded was to bracket the dates based on month the specifics of the colors have no meaning.
Beta update quantity does not reflect game quality.
This is true. However the purpose of highlighting this in my post was to demonstrate that there is a difference present in update cycles, not to assert that this instantly meant the old form of update scheduling was better. That is a deeper pool of discussion that should be present in another thread, which I implore you to make if you want to continue this specific route of discussion.

If the developers are having to juggle issues like how to fine-tune established characters alongside designing and implementing more complex characters like Umbrella and Dhalia in addition to sorting through the game to root out bugs,
We don't know if they are doing all this though. I can only make assumptions that
-Yes, Dahlia is being worked on becasue ofcourse dahlia is being worked on because she's the new character.
-Yes, Bug-Fixes are being worked on because QA is being super duper active about it (Immense gratitude to Liam and Fullbleed especially for reaching out and fixing the Dahlia Desync)
-But No, I don't know if the tuning of established characters is on their docket, we can't know unless its communicated as an interest that the team has undertaken, or if it shows up in patch notes.

We don't know how they are prioritizing and dividing work, we don't know what the trello looks like. We aren't entitled to know this at all. But if we had anything to let us know the workload was overwhelming, and the update cycle might take a slowness because of it, the community at large would be NOTHING less than supportive, caring and understanding. This actually has precedent because Liam did communicate a while ago that season pass development was taking a lot of work

For goodness sake, I was there to witness umbrella players transition to the understanding that her setplay was NOT supposed to be beelining into overstuffed for setplay months after her beta. Despite this ideology that [ravenous is the mode that you get rewarded for being in], being present in her full release debut patch notes.

Umbrella players would not have been critical of the bubble nerfs before the holidays, had the idea that overstuffed as a playstyle was not her intended way of play was more communicated early in the beta. In fact, i'm going to draw a specific example. Liam nerfed Umbrella's bubbles. They didn't go through assists AND if umbrella is hit they dissipate. This was in an attempt to make it the bubble that wasn't "going to do everything again." But the definition of everything wasn't elaborated on. Characters like Painwheel could opt not to do anything about a do-everything-wishmaker which would make the option of Ptooie stronger in that case. There is the point that bubbles are a resource and the work Umbrella does to maintain her hunger is rewarded with powerful tools. The idea of how her moves post this Liampost about how umbrella should operate as assists, stuff like her puddle stacking setplay, stuff currently like her eyes, there is a lot still in the air and a lot of points still without clarity. ALL This and we don't know what the devs want, should we keep clammoring on about it, or leave umbrella's current state as her final say.


I would rather they be handled through less-frequent updates instead of hotfixes and beta balance changes that are reverted over the course of a weekend.
Except we had exactly this with Fortune and Pea nerfs?


I won't further discuss anything else on this specific subject in this thread, and apologize to Chrono for this wall of text, but I felt inspired by the clear spite in your retort. I would argue making an effort to understand others instead of just sanctimoniously telling one to "take a break" would lead to more fruitful discussion.
 

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@Chrono_Tata would you mind migrating the last series of posts starting with mine from yesterday to a new thread if not wanted here? wanna continue there because i think there's quite a few good points made & more to make. Can name it whatever you see fit or i/someone else can, doesnt matter

post edit: Thanks so much, appreciate that man.
 
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@Nuuance It is done m'lord

Since you're the first post of the new thread you should be able to edit the thread title if you want. If not let me know if you want it changed.
 

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The devs are now being hush-hush since the next major Alpha update came out. I think they might be working on Dahlia diligently. That's why the devs are very hush-hush for nearly a month.
 

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something i deleted in my earlier posts, but mentioned by another: we dont really have any definitive clue or confirmation that the hush hush nature is for any particular reason. Least of all, anything apart from bugs & dahlia herself.

Rn it's just assumptions & silence. Ive seen a few posts guessing it's because the last patches 'didnt go well' or 'they're working on dahlia' but to be completely honest that doesnt preclude the ability to say something about whats happening moving forward without going into big specifics. Additionally, past patches didnt go that well because the main grievances werent handled directly or even addressed...I want that to sink in. Annie was the first culprit. Many of us have put in an ungodly amount of hours playtesting/posting on maincord/forums. It's not unfair to want an idea of where it's going especially since sg & crew ok'd it.

i like squigly and eliza a lot, but it's hard to focus thinking of improvements or things to try & opening the game not knowing if this is it or will it evolve like other IPs. usually dont like comparing, but i do because the general goal between games is the same: to be fun. By virtue of competitive people wanting to be fair so they can flex guilt free, balance will follow. But ill be the first to say...i think it's ok to not be so strict w/frame data. i know this is more beta-thread territory, but I bring it up because it's starting to become difficult coming back to suggest things i might genuinely be excited about because i dont know if it'll even be seen or even considered. It's kinda amazing, this is the first time we've had rogue threads of people weve never seen or heard of just post reams of text with stuff they wanna see like. people with inspired ideas & stuff we all wont agree on, but something you could tell they were excited about. If there is anything on future changes for the cast or anything it'd be great to know.

Everyone has their own vision for the game. I respect them all, but also want everyone to be heard. Because there's a lot of people who have ideas i get excited about. Legimately think these threads & people who maybe are hesitant to say much hold important answers regardless of the direction of the game staying more the same or evolving into something. might not turn into something i like. im ok with that, only if it's something where we all have a say. Arcsys, Capcom, and others been taking feedback & the collaborations is making things happen. I believe in the community & think people are smart. devs are good at parsing things & being mediators between the game and what we want. If we just let that combine in an organized way, this game could frickin take offffffff. turn into something better than any of us could think up. each day i think survey with good questions would take care of so much. Again...i got my vision, not trying to invalidate, just be heard. but first...it'd be good to know if anything's happening at all. And if so, at least being heard on things moving forward would be invigorating.
 
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It has to be when I am so eager to find out what changes are they gonna plan when Dahlia enters Beta and to find out what will happen to the character select grid and Marie's boss version once her playable self enters Alpha. These are the answers I seek. Besides, we're nearing the end of 2022 and we still haven't gotten a new update.
put in this thread from dahlia thread as to not derail.

like before, yeah :P dont mind waiting any amount of time or paying more money for features, DLC or whatever they put out (palettes would be nice...or more features at some point), but it's just hard to imagine any workload is so big, a communications person or anyone cant say 'hey we're working on aforementioned stuff at this time' or 'no plans for this' or whatever the case may be. no big details needed. doesnt take much to do so, big focus on dlc or otherwise :( got my own opinions on dlc, but its cool we have it...im just a little fatigued from seeing umbrella clips & feeling like there's no fun reason to keep messing around with other characters besides small optimizations & grinding out 'not getting hit.'

the occasional times hopping on sg, the active playerbase is discernably more sparse/spreadout & running into the same few people each session is starting to get bad...like worryingly so. dlc has a good way of bring people in for a month but it always goes back down to previous numbers which on average has been in 130s-high100s from 4-10pm usually which doesnt sound too bad intitially. Still tho, the same player matching persists higher up you get. A word on a patch for rest of the cast would be nice much as i dont like bringing it up again...it just doesnt seem to be going away. twitter or reddit presence might seem bigger, but in practice, things have understandably been decreasing. I know many practice offline or separate accounts, but apart from select monsters/grinders, im not seeing many mainstay players anymore & it's legitimately saddening. With all the tweets and updates for mobile game, is the same attention being paid to pc version anymore? Not to mention odd network disconnects and latency (maybe just my end) seem oddly more frequent for some time. Did that network beta ever net any results?

Would it be possible to have a community manager sort this out? It just seems a little odd the only main way to ask questions is on cleanup streams & i dont want to bring that energy/concern to someone just working on art trying to chill. Always seen forums as default for that sort of thing. not justifying terse responses earlier in the year, but it feels like no matter how polite or how long you wait inbetween questions, there's only silence. Earlier in the year i said many people would eventually just stop posting anymore from mounting indifference & honestly not dooming, but it seems that's kind of where we are rn

All we can do is wait at the end of the day, but I'd love to hop in again and even see some addtional mechanics to the cast...another convo i know, but just something to bring more people back & play with the people who made fighting games/skullgirls so fun from the start. If Sage & accompanying tourney organizers werent here, things would be far more worrying. It's crazy, but even DNF's big patch is dropping next month, average 40-60 playercount game these days.

Please, i genuinely hope someone gives some official word on what's going on. I dont think this is a healthy way to go about a roadmap/plan.
We appreciate the hard work & dont want any negativity. It's just like what now?
Thanks for reading
 
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put in this thread from dahlia thread as to not derail.

like before, yeah :P dont mind waiting any amount of time or paying more money for features, DLC or whatever they put out (palettes would be nice...or more features at some point), but it's just hard to imagine any workload is so big, a communications person or anyone cant say 'hey we're working on aforementioned stuff at this time' or 'no plans for this' or whatever the case may be. no big details needed. doesnt take much to do so, big focus on dlc or otherwise :( got my own opinions on dlc, but its cool we have it...im just a little fatigued from seeing umbrella clips & feeling like there's no fun reason to keep messing around with other characters besides small optimizations & grinding out 'not getting hit.'

the occasional times hopping on sg, the active playerbase is discernably more sparse/spreadout & running into the same few people each session is starting to get bad...like worryingly so. dlc has a good way of bring people in for a month but it always goes back down to previous numbers which on average has been in 130s-high100s from 4-10pm usually which doesnt sound too bad intitially. Still tho, the same player matching persists higher up you get. A word on a patch for rest of the cast would be nice much as i dont like bringing it up again...it just doesnt seem to be going away. twitter or reddit presence might seem bigger, but in practice, things have understandably been decreasing. I know many practice offline or separate accounts, but apart from select monsters/grinders, im not seeing many mainstay players anymore & it's legitimately saddening. With all the tweets and updates for mobile game, is the same attention being paid to pc version anymore? Not to mention odd network disconnects and latency (maybe just my end) seem oddly more frequent for some time. Did that network beta ever net any results?

Would it be possible to have a community manager sort this out? It just seems a little odd the only main way to ask questions is on cleanup streams & i dont want to bring that energy/concern to someone just working on art trying to chill. Always seen forums as default for that sort of thing. not justifying terse responses earlier in the year, but it feels like no matter how polite or how long you wait inbetween questions, there's only silence. Earlier in the year i said many people would eventually just stop posting anymore from mounting indifference & honestly not dooming, but it seems that's kind of where we are rn

All we can do is wait at the end of the day, but I'd love to hop in again and even see some addtional mechanics to the cast...another convo i know, but just something to bring more people back & play with the people who made fighting games/skullgirls so fun from the start. If Sage & accompanying tourney organizers werent here, things would be far more worrying. It's crazy, but even DNF's big patch is dropping next month, average 40-60 playercount game these days.

Please, i genuinely hope someone gives some official word on what's going on. I dont think this is a healthy way to go about a roadmap/plan.
We appreciate the hard work & dont want any negativity. It's just like what now?
Thanks for reading
You do have a point, though. Also, the term "hush-hush" is my fancy way of saying silent. But if I remember correctly, Sehkmet has its own animations to became the hurdle when Eliza was in development. Since Dahlia's super can call forth her bunny minions, they come with their own animations and that's why we've been left in the dark for nearly three months. But now that you have a point, I respect that. I am still finding out if Dahlia gets her Nine the Phantom palette during development or not and planned changes during Beta (looking for the default cast's voice lines specific to Annie and the manipulation of the character select grid to pave the way for Marie).
 

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The devs are now being hush-hush since the next major Alpha update came out. I think they might be working on Dahlia diligently. That's why the devs are very hush-hush for nearly a month

Tbh though, I feel like they can at least give us some sort of roadmap so we have an idea of when we can expect best updates and eventually, the DLC releases. Whats kinda funny is that they did this with Umbrella when they first introduced her so we know they're capable of making a roadmap of some sorts but they chose not to for BD for some reason?
 

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Tbh though, I feel like they can at least give us some sort of roadmap so we have an idea of when we can expect best updates and eventually, the DLC releases. Whats kinda funny is that they did this with Umbrella when they first introduced her so we know they're capable of making a roadmap of some sorts but they chose not to for BD for some reason?
If you look at the Black Dahlia Alpha Announcement post, the roadmap is on there, but they are just estimates, yet 2022 is nearing the end.
 

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There's no point in asking for a roadmap lol. Not once in Skullgirls history has its dev, no matter who it is, correctly estimated the time it takes to make a character. They had to crunch to finish Valentine and Double prerelease, Squigly was partially done and supposed to come out in a couple months after the crowdfunding (it took five), making a character was supposed to take only three months once the funds are in (it took six on average), Umbrella was supposed to come out end of 2021 (it was Q2 2022) and the last season pass character was supposed to come out end of 2022 (on pace for 2024).

This doesn't include the troubled development on Indivisible, where a team with whose specialty is making a small quantity of high quality assets promised a game that has a large explorable world and epic writing full. It wasn't really a shock that things were bad even before the drama that finished it off.

Considering the sheer amount of drama this game has had, I wouldn't be surprised if there are things in the background slowing things down, not even including the lawsuits and the ever increasing workload from porting the game to new consoles.
 
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DLC will come, not too worried about that or a roadmap; hard to figure out a timeline for that these days. The issue was asking what's going on with the rest of the game. I cant pretend to know, but typically companies have a rough plan of the future. All i literally want to know is, is the rest of the cast going to seriously be considered for updates. Taking 5 minutes to say something on the forums or twitter doesnt take a lot, not asking for details. Because that was never acknowledged, but discussion & feedback for the beta as a whole was encouraged & that's the bulk of the big beta thread. I wouldnt ask if it hasnt been a year+ of discussion day to day on forums spanning many posts & some asking what the 'vision' is or whats happening.
 
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I personally don't care about when things are coming - we know they're coming, and we know these things have unpredictable timelines - but I would like more dev communication about where they're at, dropping into these discussion threads and hashing it out with people, or just saying they're listening. As it is, with these long periods of silence, it feels like we're not being heard as much, even if it's not the case. Maybe Mike spoiled us on the communication front, but I think more communication feels great from the standpoint of a player. People are more engaged when they feel like they're being heard.
 

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I personally don't care about when things are coming - we know they're coming, and we know these things have unpredictable timelines - but I would like more dev communication about where they're at, dropping into these discussion threads and hashing it out with people, or just saying they're listening. As it is, with these long periods of silence, it feels like we're not being heard as much, even if it's not the case. Maybe Mike spoiled us on the communication front, but I think more communication feels great from the standpoint of a player. People are more engaged when they feel like they're being heard.
Well, this silence is caused by the fact that Dahlia's minions being the longest to animate since they have their own animations and I know what caused it. Also, wait a minute. You're not talking about Mike Zaimont, are you?
 

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Well, this silence is caused by the fact that Dahlia's minions being the longest to animate since they have their own animations and I know what caused it. Also, wait a minute. You're not talking about Mike Zaimont, are you?
borrowing chrono's response from the dahlia thread if thats cool along w/trivs earlier in this thread.
Far as I know, all we have seen of the bunny girl super is the frames with Dahlia moving alongside them. We don't know what level it is and we don't know how it's gonna work. You may be right, but currently how the move is going to work is just completely up to speculation. We certainly don't know if that is the reason for such a long gap from the latest update.
We don't know if they are doing all this though. I can only make assumptions that
-Yes, Dahlia is being worked on becasue ofcourse dahlia is being worked on because she's the new character.
-Yes, Bug-Fixes are being worked on because QA is being super duper active about it (Immense gratitude to Liam and Fullbleed especially for reaching out and fixing the Dahlia Desync)
-But No, I don't know if the tuning of established characters is on their docket, we can't know unless its communicated as an interest that the team has undertaken, or if it shows up in patch notes.
echoing above, there's no grounds for this. I dont know how else to say but this doesnt prevent anyone from stopping to take 5 mins to say something. By that logic Mike shouldnt have been able to communicate hardly at all. Or Alex. Work is still split betwen artists & devs/etc. i do not know workloads, but many companies are working on a million things at one time, big & small studios, but it's never stopped anyone from giving an update unless contractually obligated. Even then most the time there's a 'sorry cant speak on it rn, but we hear you.' What's being discussed is there has been no clarification on anything outside of DLC. Additionally we're not asking for constant progress. (sidenote, would love to have additional color palettes from mobile, they're so cool)

In general as a company/entity, you communicate. When you dont, things fall off. Are you saying work is so intense people can only tweet about art contests, video featurettes on design, mobile deals & lootboxes, retweeting other's SG-related tweets around the clock (FC & SG accounts), new webtoon, new tiktok account, but not take a minute on the forums to talk the community :/ *shrugs* idk...

project L, capcom, Justin who made Katana Zero, have given updates & they clearly have gargantuan workloads. Anime studios have literally burnt down...like burnt down & still, there's been updates. Like idk what else to say other than it genuinely feels like many great perspectives and feedback is just getting ignored. Be it disatisfaction w/aspects of umbrella, annie, the rest of the cast, it doesnt matter. Even comments on twitter ask about this stuff but it's crickets. Some of the best ideas/features weve had, have come from the community. idk, i guess it only makes sense many just stopped posting altogether. Yes we were spoiled, but we're not asking for the same frequency, just something. Anything.

edit: now there's a webtoon & new tiktok. That's only dope! but unfortunately it's still incredibly frustrating, having this much silence over here when other things are getting attention before the game that that all this content is about in the first place...Where are the resources going towards tightening up the game & features/QoLs/character updates? Why do all these other platforms have people at the ready to make a random update, but we're left wondering why? I cant wrap my head around why these many workhours are going towards peripheral content.

update: for the attachment, a day or two after an actual event for a showcase was announced. So um yeah HV/FC...comments do however sum up howmany feel about radio silence in general.
 

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This long silence is starting to tick me off! Come on, devs! Just tell us what's with this horrible silence already! I mean, a Skullgirls Webtoon adaptation and a TikTok account are great, but what about giving us info about how the development of Black Dahlia is coming along? I waited three months and this silence is ticking us off! Don't leave us in the freaking dark! We're nearing the end of 2022 and we get NOTHING.
 
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This long silence is starting to tick me off! Come on, devs! Just tell us what's with this horrible silence already! I mean, a Skullgirls Webtoon adaptation and a TikTok account are great, but what about giving us info about how the development of Black Dahlia is coming along? I waited three months and this silance is ticking us off! Don't leave us in the freaking dark! We're nearing the end of 2022 and we get NOTHING.
im sorry about that man...I really am. im sure the team will drop something soon. as a couple said above and myself, DLC will come. Im a little sad she's not as 'tricky' as the concept ideas/art but glad shes dropping. People bought the season pass and theyve always followed through with that. Satisfaction of Dahlia herself? We'll have to see. Hopefully they listened to most of the feedback. FYI Usually on a perfect schedule, 3 months for DLC of a character in most games is the minimum amount of time it takes if theres very few bugs. We've unfortunately no clue on development so...we really dont know. But 5ish months isnt much of a surprise. It'll come dont worry mate :)

I've already detailed in the post above yours the reasoning for what i think outside of that, but ill just reiterate, I would be more worried about the cast as a whole; that is what is going to determine the health and future of the game. Far more than features, DLC, or netplay additions. DLC brings people in, but there's always the fall off. The fall off's been worse it's ever been for some time. I just hope we get that shot in the arm many want.

If the dev team or HV/FC is serious about SG, I'd strongly strongly reconsider whatever plans are had right now and focus on getting an organized way to collect input & work on implementing it in chunks. asap. Because I uninstalled a long while ago tbh (sg's almost 20gigs now, kinda crazy - only reinstalling to play w/a friend). Dahlia will be fun, but i still got 2 other whole characters with aspects i dont care for/want to be improved. As well as light nerfs for peacock/fortune & continued reworks for quite a few other characters.

Like you said...webtoons/tiktok is nice, but it definitely does feel like priorities are off & dont really see any reasons anymore important than this; again talking communication foremost, not even a plan being enacted itself yet.
 
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Cal

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This long silence is starting to tick me off! Come on, devs! Just tell us what's with this horrible silence already! I mean, a Skullgirls Webtoon adaptation and a TikTok account are great, but what about giving us info about how the development of Black Dahlia is coming along? I waited three months and this silance is ticking us off! Don't leave us in the freaking dark! We're nearing the end of 2022 and we get NOTHING.

Lack of communication is a understood problem & waiting a few months to get responses on anything 'Update Related' seems a bit arbitrary. The "New Player" experience however, helps me shine some light on the Players & Devs that have been supporting and creating Skullgirls for several years. Even on the Development perspective, i really can't become as agitated or concerned as others. I understand that the Development team is small and should become more "Active" as time reveals no one is speaking up.This creates uncertainty for others, especially established long supporting players. The mentality should be ' I have content , Im thankful for what i have, and i know that content is coming.' Patience is a virtue, even when fighting your opponent. I don't have a problem waiting for good content that is worth it. At least for me.

If this trend continues, i fear the players will start interacting negatively towards Development. That doesn't help anyone.
 

the_rpg_king

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Lack of communication is a understood problem & waiting a few months to get responses on anything 'Update Related' seems a bit arbitrary. The "New Player" experience however, helps me shine some light on the Players & Devs that have been supporting and creating Skullgirls for several years. Even on the Development perspective, i really can't become as agitated or concerned as others. I understand that the Development team is small and should become more "Active" as time reveals no one is speaking up.This creates uncertainty for others, especially established long supporting players. The mentality should be ' I have content , Im thankful for what i have, and i know that content is coming.' Patience is a virtue, even when fighting your opponent. I don't have a problem waiting for good content that is worth it. At least for me.

If this trend continues, i fear the players will start interacting negatively towards Development. That doesn't help anyone.
I don't mind waiting, but we are left in the dark for three freaking months! Our patience helped things since it's the best policy. But we're in a three month silence and this is not good in any way! If they don't tell us what the heck is going on, we'll turn into skeletons! But one thing's for sure. I am also waiting for Texas. And I'm not talking about the Lone Star State, but the first DLC character in Them's Fightin' Herds that is a bull to come out this month. It'll be worthless since Thanksgiving is around the corner. They gotta at least tell us what's going on somehow! They just gotta!
 
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