I'm McPeanuts I made a thread

[Mike_Z]

L Luger was a problem. Went into training mode after the set to figure out what to do against it. Honestly it seems like the best thing to do is read it and duck when I think Double's gonna fire the gun. If I'm fast enough I can stand up and s.HP before Double can shoot the gun again.

s.HP xx M Bang through it, c.HK xx sliding M Bang...?

 

[mcpeanuts]

s.HP xx M Bang through it, c.HK xx sliding M Bang...?

Does c.HK xx M Bang reach from full screen? That first one is definitely good stuff tho. I don't know why I didn't think of it considering I already use that against Fukua.

 

[mcpeanuts]

The date is August 3rd, 2015. Today I started trying to only press HP three times when inputting H Gun. I used to just mash HP and try to react to the third shot coming out with Argus, but I found that this made confirming Lenny Argus too difficult. That's why now, after over 3 years of playing this game, I am finally trying to learn how to input this move properly.

I am a top Skullgirls player.

 

[mcpeanuts]

Here's a match analysis of a FT5 I did with @Skarmand, whatever suggestions y'all got for me would be much appreciated cause I p much got destroyed

 

[CaioLugon]

I feel that round start upback, assist call, delayed grab with peacock/band is pretty much safe from anything parasoul could try? unless BE gets beat out by something, which could totally happen, but in that case you probably chicken blocked j.lp so you have the advantage after landing and a 6f jab to throw out.

Also, Bigband's j.lk is 7f while parasoul's j.lp is 8f, you just did it later in that case. BB's j.lk is the god normal.

Only watched the beginning, sorry...

 

[Yomabuddy]

IDK if you've tested this and sorry if you have, but have you tried using air to air j.MP vs Para's buttons? Might be useful especially at round start spacing.

 

[skull person]

Lmfao at like 5 resets when I have 3 bars.
I'm sorry I'm not even sandbagging I'm just making mistakes.
I need to work on that.

Also if you were Alpha Countering L Shot like you pointed out there would have had to be some serious adjustments on my part for sure.
I never thought about how fast L Beat would scoop me up after that.

Spoiler: RE: Round Start

I really don't think walk backwards or down back + a delayed assist call on movement is a bad opener at all.
Peacock can bomb HK LK George if I go on Band or do item things if I give her any space, and all the round start dash or jump into buttons net you a free combo.

After you show me that opener several times you get more freedom because I have to respect it.

I'm still close to you even if I block Band or he whiffs but at least he's in the way of me smacking you.
Might be worth looking into.

Spoiler: RE: Parasoul jLP

I guess it was already pointed out but Bands jLK is faster than Parasoul's jLP.
I just try and buffer jLP as I dash jump so it comes out very fast, but you're already lingering in the air so yours will come out second when you press it most of the time since it has to be a bit pre-emptive.
Another thing you can do is Cymbals vs those dash jumps.
Only thing I can do to Cymbals is wait on the floor and try and shoot an L Shot under you so you fall on it.

I get a lot of instant jLP's stuffed by Cymbals if they are neutral jumping or up backing and floating around.
Most of the instant jLP's I do are going to be mostly be reads to try and gain an advantage.

Sometimes showing me you're not afraid to gamble on A-Train will make me hug the floor a lot more and not stick that out all the time.
I feel like I didn't get hit by any A-Trains or see it ever.
I'm pretty sure you can react to Parasoul's jumps with M A-Train the armour will beat everything before I can get a second hit out.
That means less chicken blocked brasses to make them unsafe and you'll have an easier time in the neutral with jLP becoming more scarce.

Spoiler: RE: Point Band

Does your Big Band not have an assist that can make things like M A-Train or M/H Brass safe?
If so, that sorta sucks but I guess that's how it goes.
If you do, I think you should get more comfortable with it and try and pull it out more in matches.
A-Train can make a big difference.

Peacock died really fast most of the time and Big Band sometimes came in solo, or died from double snaps, so the assist might not always be there.

It might be useful to grind some matches with your team in reverse order?

I feel like after fighting both Yaya and Domo so much with their assists to let them use those moves all day it makes Band so much more of a complete (and frustrating) character.

I feel like I never saw Peacocks assist, and fighting Solo Band vs Para with an assist is way harder than it could be for Band.

Spoiler: RE: Zoning

With Item Drop, I don't think TJ really holds it very much like you mentioned.
Sometimes I find you use M Item drop as a way to cover yourself to go in (don't!) and apply some pressure or wait for me to get closer (don't!) to you so it's in range.

I think it is better to just think of it as an air strike anywhere where you think they are going to go.

I guess running L Beat you sort of have to zone as a Solo Peacock which is rough.
It does make it a lot easier for me to close the gap.
I feel like I only got stuck in a bomb wall for ~5 seconds maximum, and very rarely.

That round start is really important for both of us.

@6:49 confusion
In your video where I do jHK and then sLP (Block) throw, it was because the last hit of jHK which knocks you up whiffed because I touched the ground too fast. (I'm still getting used to Robo Fortune and controlling her flight, I didn't even touch her in the beta.)
Then when I went for sLP you already landed and recovered so it was blocked and I went for a tick grab on reaction to that.
I would have for sure been able to take the last 10% of your health with sLP sLP s[MP] sMK sHP x H Danger x Beam.

@12:55
You said 'That is still working' and 'The second time you've done that'
But I'm pretty sure that's the first time I fudged my jHK + Saw set up to lose to wake up Beat Extend.
jHK + Saw will air meaty H Beat Extend after the first invincible frame wears off (Which is during this hitbox)
While also getting the meaty on L Beat Extend because it's not invincible on the first frame.

@13:46
That was just me dropping my combo, not a reset.
I was in the middle of s.HP which is not the best normal for mix up.

Not the cleanest set by either of us, but to be fair it's a bit of a hectic, fast and heavily reactive match up when you're playing Parasoul vs Peacock. (Esp Online, but the connection was pretty fair.)

GG's and hit me up some other time.
Good on you for analysing your matches like this too.
Most people are too lazy.

 

[mcpeanuts]

I feel that round start upback, assist call, delayed grab with peacock/band is pretty much safe from anything parasoul could try? unless BE gets beat out by something, which could totally happen, but in that case you probably chicken blocked j.lp so you have the advantage after landing and a 6f jab to throw out.

I can give this a shot, thanks.

Also, Bigband's j.lk is 7f while parasoul's j.lp is 8f, you just did it later in that case. BB's j.lk is the god normal.

Skarmand touched on this too, it looks like the difference is he was doing his j.LP immediately after his jump whereas I was doing my j.LK a bit later than that. I should try to get in the habit of doing j.LK earlier. It's active for days so there's not really any reason not to.

IDK if you've tested this and sorry if you have, but have you tried using air to air j.MP vs Para's buttons? Might be useful especially at round start spacing.

ClaranceMage said the same thing (is this an AU thing?) but I have trouble getting my head around the idea of using the button like that. Are there particular points in the match that you can point to and say "push j.MP here"? I'm asking a lot I know but I think that's what I need in order to understand this, lol

@Skarmand I'm not gonna quote your whole post cause it's huge but thanks so much for all the advice, this is super helpful. In brief:

-I probably do need to Cymbals as Band more often in this matchup. It's sort of a weird mindset to get into, because Band has to work hard to get to half screen, then when I get there I'm supposed to stop moving forward and throw out pokes. It's tough to put on the brakes, when I'm in that mindset and I get that close I just want to jump and push j.LK. That's something I need to work on more.

-My Peacock assist doesn't really make Big Band stuff safe per se but it can make it weird to punish since there's a bomb on the screen. I usually call it a lot when Big Band is out, I don't know why I didn't this set (maybe I was scared of Peacock getting hit as an assist? Dunno). M A-Train with L Bomb assist is probably safe so I should do that more.

-You're also right I should play the team in the opposite order more often, I do that sometimes but then I'll go long stretches without doing it. It's only as of reading your post that I realize I'm in one of those long stretches right now, so it's time to put Big Band on point for a bit.

-The problem with start of the round assist call vs Parasoul is that depending on what I do, dash up c.LK or dash up throw will blow it up. I've learned this from playing Fenster, and now I don't really try that opener against Parasoul. I think Caio's idea can work though.

-I'm not normally really trying to rush down when I go in with charged items, it's more that I want you to move backwards so that I don't corner myself. But again against Parasoul I probably should just use uncharged items more.

-For Robo if you don't want to deal with not knowing if j.HK will do the last hit or not, you can hold down forward to ensure you land before that hit comes out. It's less damage but more consistent. I had trouble with that too when I was learning Robo.

 

[Yomabuddy]

It's basically like a hitbox you kind of just put on the screen somewhat pre-emptively at mid range (where beat extend assist assists with zoning). Actually now that I think about it I would use it in scenarios where you use air throw to air to air, I suppose. It's an MP so you can't use it while you have M Item charged to cover your recovery but you can air dash cancel it to save yourself. If you watch high level Marvel 3 its applications are somewhat similar to how Magneto uses super jump and normal jump H S for air confirms. Sorry for not giving concrete SG examples but I don't actually know Peacock amazingly well so I don't want to say "do this in this situation" when I haven't tested the situation.

 

[mcpeanuts]

Actually now that I think about it I would use it in scenarios where you use air throw to air to air, I suppose.

This is easy enough to understand. I can try using j.MP in those kinds of situations and see how it goes. Thanks!

 

[Yomabuddy]

Just tested btw, and while you do get kinda rekt at round start spacing against Para early j.LP (though you can do a delayed j.LP j.LK j.MP to whiff punish it and land to get a combo), at this range, Para just kinda gets shit on with j.MP and j.HP where those normals done pre-emptively will be disjointed enough to where she can't jump in at all pretty much.

EDIT: I didn't test vs super jumps but I'd guess this would beat super jump from Para too at a different timing. This range is probably best for you team too for zoning purposes instead of full full screen, which doesn't really do anything for you considering you have beat extend.

 

[skull person]

Maybe I'm crazy but doesn't jHP make more sense?
It's much easier to space, and leads to combos and pressure with IAD JLP JMP right?

If you mistime it or whiff you go backwards further away from Parasoul's (or anyone's) air pokes.

I also think that dash jump air throw as an anti air is more effective than trying to stuff jLP with jMP.

I know ground throw is 7F, so if air throw is 7F then that's faster than Para jLP.
All you have to do is read the dash jump and start moving before I do.

 

[Yomabuddy]

It's easier to hit confirm j.MP j.HP call BB than it is to j.HP adc j.LP IMO, though j.HP especially from neutral jump was easier from a more variety of ranges. Dash air throw is a harder read and easier to get punished for, I think.

Also I'm an idiot please don't replace air throw with j.MP. Air throw is faster and better up close whereas j.MP is slower. You want to use j.MP where you'd want to use air throw but you're farther away, if it makes any sense.

 

[mcpeanuts]

Also I'm an idiot please don't replace air throw with j.MP. Air throw is faster and better up close whereas j.MP is slower. You want to use j.MP where you'd want to use air throw but you're farther away, if it makes any sense.

Hmmmmmmm I see. That's a little trickier but I can give it a shot.

@dekillsage I see you lurking, I know you can't post right now but if you got any thoughts on this discussion lemmie know later on Skype or Steam or something, thanks~

 

[mcpeanuts]

Here's something stupid I came up with instead of working on my defense:

Spoiler

I worked on my defense too but a video of me trying to chicken block Eliza IAD j.LK j.HK for half an hour is probably less interesting to watch.

 

[Yomabuddy]

People who practice defense turn me on.

Oh baby chicken block that Para j.LP j.HP and get max damage punish oh yeah.

 

[fenster]

People who practice defense turn me on.

Oh baby chicken block that Para j.LP j.HP and get max damage punish oh yeah.

We'll need to tag training threads as NSFW

 

[mcpeanuts]

So playing Sage last night I noticed something about how he was getting in. He would wait for Beat Extend assist to be on cooldown, then he would j.LP to beat my jump forward j.HK and get a full combo. This exact sequence must have happened at least a dozen times. At the very least I need to get better at recognizing that situation and not doing jump forward j.HK there, but I was trying to think, if I have the read that j.LP is coming right NOW, what's a good option? And I'm having trouble thinking of anything. He only does it if Beat Extend is on cooldown so that's out. Peacock's own j.LP and air grab tend to lose to Fukua j.LP (in my experience). I can beat it with disjointed hitboxes like j.MP but without Beat Extend I can't convert. Something like c.HK xx bombs is a soft read I could use to just get out of the situation, but if possible I'd like to get a heavy combo for my read. Anyone got any ideas?

 

[Yomabuddy]

M Item?

 

[mcpeanuts]

M Item?

This might work! Thanks!

 

[ShakyFingers]

It's tougher than against someone like Parasoul, but if you're absolutely sure when Fukua's about to do j.LP>j.HK, if you air block it early enough, you can punish it. And if he calls Lock 'n Load or something to stay safe, you also have the option to air throw punish. This doesn't seem to work if they do it late, but in that situation, it sounds like he's doing it ASAP, so it should work every time if you get it down.

 

[Cadenza]

If you try to chicken block j.lp,j.hk. Fukua can cancel into j.lp,j.hk>j.hp and render that method useless.

 

[Dime]

Block the j.lp then pushblock him back out, BE should be near to cooled down by then as well. Other ideas:

Have an item on hold.
Double jump over him.
If your spacing is correct then your jhp will clean out his jlp easily since peacocks jhp is almost completely disjointed... Bonus points since you can cancel that jhp into offense or defense via airdash.



Generally speaking, peacock players need to be prodigious about whether they are using jhp or jhk. Using one of either without ever using the other is always a mistake:

Jhk is used for people trying to "move" forward.
Jhp is used for people trying to "attack" forward.


Someone moving forward via empty jumping or the like wont be highly affected by jhp since it will do no damage and peacock could get scooped by an assist.

Whereas using jhk against someone trying to attack is likely to get peacock counter hit if the spacing is to close. So... be more aware of your normals and what they do, what they setup, what they are weak to and what spacing a they are best against.


At the end of the day though "how to beat jumping jab" is more a question of spacing and positioning rather than one of what beats what.

Don't know why I insist on responding to ignores... But I guess I'm bored that way.

 

[IsaVulpes]

IAD jHK instead of jumping forward

 

[mcpeanuts]

Lotta really good ideas, thanks everyone! Really excited to not remember to do any of this at Summer Jam then get hit with 10000 Fukua jump jabs

 

[Mr Peck]

IAD jHK instead of jumping forward

My secret is out!

 

[mcpeanuts]

Now that Summer Jam is over, I want to put some time into Double/Peacock/Big Band. idk if it's a great idea to work on it right now, since TFC is coming up pretty soon and I'm sure this team won't be ready for that, but I'm going to mess around with it in casuals on the basis that 1) it's fun and 2) I want to. Played a few games with this team against Pickles last night (who was also using a different team than normal, Filia/Double).

Good things:
1. If Double gets in trouble, mash Car DHC to Lenny seems like a good way to get out
2. I forgot how good Peacock with H Bomber assist was, holy shit it's amazing
3. Beat Extend assist lets you hit confirm and convert with Double while jumping backwards and pushing buttons like j.HP or j.LK
4. Big Band is a smaller percentage of the total team which is good because he sucks (I'm finally ready to admit this)

Bad things
1. I forgot how to play Double oops
2. H Bomber doesn't really do anything for Big Band, you can't use it to convert off instant j.MK because it goes right over them. You can probably use it for corner combos but I can't think of any good setups with it.
3. Double j.HP + call Peacock s.HP assist is not as good as I thought it would be, mostly because if they're in the air the Peacock assist whiffs on them. Maybe this needs to be M Item assist, didn't think of it until I started writing this post. Maybe this isn't actually that big of a deal since if they're in the air I can call Beat Extend instead, but that makes me wonder if I should be calling Beat Extend all the time in that situation (like how Kenin uses Pillar assist) and have something else as my Peacock assist (bomb assist? c.HP? throw? taunt?)

 

[acfan]

have you tried cilia slide? you might be able to do some wacky shit off that.

 

[mcpeanuts]

have you tried cilia slide? you might be able to do some wacky shit off that.

I've tried it before, I don't think Cilia Slide is nearly as good for Peacock as H Bomber is. Cilia Slide is better for Big Band for sure, but I'd rather have an assist that's good for Peacock, especially since when the team is in this order, you don't usually have Big Band out with Double still alive (which is something I meant to mention but forgot)

 

[dMags]

Big Band is a smaller percentage of the total team which is good because he sucks (I'm finally ready to admit this)

We need to talk....

 

[Pickles]

We need to talk....

nah he's bad homie just face it double is where it's at

 

[gllt]

Do any of Peacock's bombs make it safe to throw out some funny rush punches with BB? Cause you're like ayy paunch and they're like lol blocked but then it's like haha bombs.
If so, take that same bomb and see if it lets you just throw out stuff with Double (slide?) or autopilot some blockstrings with lesser risk involved and maybe even nab conversions on hit? (MLuger enders)

Boxcar..?

 

[mcpeanuts]

Do any of Peacock's bombs make it safe to throw out some funny rush punches with BB? Cause you're like ayy paunch and they're like lol blocked but then it's like haha bombs.
If so, take that same bomb and see if it lets you just throw out stuff with Double (slide?) or autopilot some blockstrings with lesser risk involved and maybe even nab conversions on hit? (MLuger enders)

Boxcar..?

Sort of? I used to run H Bomb and I would call H Bomb and punch at about the same time. It does work the way you're suggesting, but it was still punishable by using grabs or reversals. I imagine trying to do the same thing with Cilia Slide would have the same problem but worse, since slide leaves you right next to them. I'll mess around with it to make sure of course.

I was also trying ending blockstrings with Luger + call Peacock, but I found when I got pushblocked out the assist wouldn't really lock them down the way I wanted.

 

[Yomabuddy]

Good things:
1. If Double gets in trouble, mash Car DHC to Lenny seems like a good way to get out
2. Big Band is a smaller percentage of the total team which is good because he sucks (I'm finally ready to admit this)
3. H Bomber doesn't really do anything for Big Band, you can't use it to convert off instant j.MK because it goes right over them. You can probably use it for corner combos but I can't think of any good setups with it.
4. Double j.HP + call Peacock s.HP assist is not as good as I thought it would be, mostly because if they're in the air the Peacock assist whiffs on them. Maybe this needs to be M Item assist, didn't think of it until I started writing this post. Maybe this isn't actually that big of a deal since if they're in the air I can call Beat Extend instead

1. I don't know if it's a good idea to go forward at this point and make teams based on "If I mess up" since as you get better you would not be messing up as badly and might not be willing to play teams that are arguably better but require you to not mess up.
2. Big Band doesn't suck >:(
3. Does H Butt make BB rush punches safe from a distance?
4. I don't know if calling an assist all the time is a great idea in a certain situation. Outside of baiting it etc, back when I had my internet I had started to call BB only for conversion purposes with RF for magnetic blast and beam conversions (ofc there was also the "He'll stick out a button in a moment time to counter it with BB call") and just tried to be more conservative with my calls.

 

[fenster]

1. I don't know if it's a good idea to go forward at this point and make teams based on "If I mess up" since as you get better you would not be messing up as badly and might not be willing to play teams that are arguably better but require you to not mess up.

While it's true the reasoning isn't maybe the best, Double is a pretty good character that benefits the other 2 so I think it's still a good experiment either way.

 

[mcpeanuts]

1. I don't know if it's a good idea to go forward at this point and make teams based on "If I mess up" since as you get better you would not be messing up as badly and might not be willing to play teams that are arguably better but require you to not mess up.

Couldn't agree less. I think having a B plan if things don't go according to plan is very important. If I didn't think that I'd be playing solo Peacock.

This actually reminds me of a conversation I had over the weekend with Zaferino (local SF4 player, finished 7th). He was saying part of the way he prepares for a match is he imagines messing up or getting in a bad situation, and then imagines overcoming it. The specific example he gave was when he beat 801 Strider; before the match he imagined getting knocked down by Abel, then recovering and going on to win from that position. I thought it was a pretty good idea and it's something I want to try to implement in SG. I feel like this sort of visualization helps with panicking less when on defense.

2. Big Band doesn't suck >:(

Hmmmm. Well, you guys all play trio with Big Band assist over there in Aus/New Zealand; even if we disagree on the reasoning, it seems like we've come to the same conclusion as far as what team to play. I don't think it's too important stressing over how we got there.

3. Does H Butt make BB rush punches safe from a distance?

No clue. Will test this.

4. I don't know if calling an assist all the time is a great idea in a certain situation. Outside of baiting it etc, back when I had my internet I had started to call BB only for conversion purposes with RF for magnetic blast and beam conversions (ofc there was also the "He'll stick out a button in a moment time to counter it with BB call") and just tried to be more conservative with my calls.

Are you talking about calling Peacock after Double j.HP or Luger? You may be right, you do run the risk of PBGC hitting both characters if you always call an assist at the same time in a blockstring.

If you mean calling Double in zoning patterns with Peacock, I'm not too worried about it. It's tough to punish the assist in a way that doesn't leave you vulnerable to Peacock. Against teams with LnL assist etc maybe I wouldn't try it, though.

Incidentally I've never gotten what you mean by call Beat Extend at the same time as beam. What's that doing for you that calling Beat Extend and blocking wouldn't also do? You can't hit confirm and then call beam, and it doesn't let you convert from further away.

 

[Yomabuddy]

Couldn't agree less. I think having a B plan if things don't go according to plan is very important. If I didn't think that I'd be playing solo Peacock.

This actually reminds me of a conversation I had over the weekend with Zaferino (local SF4 player, finished 7th). He was saying part of the way he prepares for a match is he imagines messing up or getting in a bad situation, and then imagines overcoming it. The specific example he gave was when he beat 801 Strider; before the match he imagined getting knocked down by Abel, then recovering and going on to win from that position. I thought it was a pretty good idea and it's something I want to try to implement in SG. I feel like this sort of visualization helps with panicking less when on defense.

I do understand that aspect, but I think that my reasoning is kind of going back to MVC2 style team building, except not as bad because tiers are more conensed. Magneto, Storm and Sentinel have bad defensive options, yet people got really good at doing what they're good at, and they're more popular than other characters in MVC2 that may have uppercuts but as worse in other regards. Of course this reasoning isn't AS relevant for Skullgirls because the tiers are more condensed and I do agree with fenster that the team is good otherwise too, I just think that "I have a safe DHC!" would be much lower on my checklist when I'm trying to make teams. I'd rather focus more on defending against mixups and setups more than "Man yo let me out Imma do my safe mash" but IDK I'm probably biased by Robo not having any functional reversals so I have to focus more on using universal defensive options more so than just doing reversals.
Also Double doesn't have Car super in the air :^)

Are you talking about calling Peacock after Double j.HP or Luger? You may be right, you do run the risk of PBGC hitting both characters if you always call an assist at the same time in a blockstring.

Yah I mean in this context more than for zoning patterns. Zoning patters with assists are *insert thumbs up emoji here*

Incidentally I've never gotten what you mean by call Beat Extend at the same time as beam. What's that doing for you that calling Beat Extend and blocking wouldn't also do? You can't hit confirm and then call beam, and it doesn't let you convert from further away.

I don't have concrete evidence for this, but I feel like it's harder to react to beam+BE than it is to react to raw BE. When people get better at the match though I don't think that'll be as big a thing since people will dash block and jump block more often. Also in some weird situations when people do jump attack+call assist sometimes the beam will hit the assist out and BE comes out and scoops the point. Again it's weird and I haven't concretely tested that.

EDIT: With my team it's probably better for me to do beam + Hairball instead of beam + BE because hairball often leaves me at + if they block it, which opens up free head situations. Thanks for making me think about that!

 

[gllt]

For the record, I like things like boxcar, because even if you call it while doing point things, it comes from behind on screen and can end up saving you even if you both got hit as long as it had a chance to come out. etc.

 

[mcpeanuts]

Rush punch + H Bomber assist is in fact safe on block. Actually it's a true blockstring. Also H Bomber does in fact let you convert off instant j.MK as long as they're in the corner. This might be better than I thought.

 

[zarkingphoton]

I knew you'd come to your senses eventually.