Indivisible: Lab Zero's Action-RPG! (General Discussion)

[Squire Grooktook]

Yeah. I don't like TBP as much as the classic shmup/arcade style set up, but I liked it a lot. Enough that I no deathed it twice, once for fun and again to record it.

I've always felt and i've heard other people say that losing your souls in souls games isn't about penalty. It's more like extra incentive to get you back to the challenge. Souls is all about teaching you death doesn't matter. What matters is finally figuring out how to get passed a section. Time investment alone is certainly enough punishment for plenty of people. 5 minutes adds up.

It's not just souls though. It's also humanity, which fundamentally affects your experience (how you interact with other players, how you progress through the game world, etc.)

And of course there's the risk of two deaths in a row before recovery = souls lost. And some of the boss fights and stretches can be quite lengthy (even moreso in Demon's Souls which has MUCH longer checkpoint lengths).

I've never seen it as "death doesn't matter". I mean, it doesn't matter in the sense that there's no shame in losing in a video game, and that the possibility of loss is something necessary to the experience whether it happens or not (anyone remember that Twilight Zone episode where the gambler/thrill junky couldn't lose a bet...and realized he was therefore in Hell?), but I've always felt that death does fundamentally matter in Souls and has real impact on the player. And the fact that it does matter, is what makes the games feel so tense and exciting.

 

[fenster]

In order to get the final "True" ending to Darksouls 2 you need to buy the remastered edition version of the game with all the DLC content included (which was previously released individually).

That's the only example of main-story DLC that I can think of though.

Final Fantasy 13-2 basically had it, since the Lightning DLC ended up being really important in making a little sense out of the ending and was a direct precursor to Lightning Returns.

 

[Sotherius]

Being honest, for me, the lack of good games today is more about the big companies not wanting to take risks, and also about the lack of "heart" put in a lot of today games.

And about checkpoint system, one thing that i found interesting, one of my favorite games of all times (Wonderful 101), has a broken checkpoint system, where the checkpoints have as the only purpose, your reloading of the stage to get better score, and since its only use is that, the system is pretty broken, which is annoying some times, but deaths itself, don't get that punished, if you retry, you are back where you died, now with the penalty in the final score. =P I don't know if i consider this good, because even if this is a game that i love, this is one of the reasons that sometimes i ragequit this game. =P

 

[ScarletGungnir]

If the battle system resemble Dust: An Elysian Tail, im fine.

 

[ArgonBern]

If the battle system resemble Dust: An Elysian Tail, im fine.

But didn't they say it would feel a bit like VP too?

 

[EU03]

If the battle system resemble Dust: An Elysian Tail, im fine.

Then I guess you're not going to be fine. :[

 

[ScarletGungnir]

some stuff can change till the launch of the game. :P But, i mean how fluid the combat is there.

 

[EU03]

> The kitty on the background
> Reference to a reference of Skullgirls

Indivisible Inconception!

The only reference is that Mariel just likes to draw malformed cats.

 

[Dio Brando]

I just hope i'll be able to understand the plot in a single playthrough, i had to play parasite eve twice to understand what was going on, and the whole kingdom hearts franchise like 3 times yet i still miss a lot of things.

 

[Mike_Z]

some stuff can change till the launch of the game. :P But, i mean how fluid the combat is there.

You have entirely the wrong idea about combat.

And Dust's combat had some very rough edges, though that isn't directly relevant.

 

[Kawalorn]

At this point the fight system can go in so many directions I just don't want to imagine or speculate about anything and truth be told I cringe a little whenever I read others speculations. :P

It just seems so silly with how little we know. Only sets you up for dissapointment.

 

[KaboomKid]

~VENT~

Good for you man, let it all out. Everybody's got a wall of text they need to get off their shoulders every now and then, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Just don't forget to smile!

Since we're on a related gaming culture topic, I'll share a thought I've been having. I feel like something that actually kinda hurts gaming today, surprisingly, is the massive number of options that are out there. Gamers can get attached to a particular style of game they enjoy, like a FPS, and have so many titles to choose from in that genre that they never feel encouraged to try something different. Of course, a growing library of titles is a wonderful thing, and it's great when someone finds a game they love, but the downside is that some gamers can become jaded to other experiences. A kid stuck in the AAA bubble can look at any 2D-style game and say "Looks like crap from Newgrounds," because Newgrounds is probably the only place where he/she ever bothered to look at a 2D game in the first place.

I think a game like Indivisible is very important in this regard, because like Skullgirls, it might hopefully become a bridge to help people try something new. For those that feel frustrated by games with turn-based battles, maybe this game will tweak the formula enough to help them wrap their heads around that style of combat better. For those who feel metroidvanias are played out, maybe this game will show them an aspect of the gameplay that they never really thought of before. Maybe just the art, or attachment to the characters, will push them forward in ways they didn't expect.

Anyway, I think we should all definitely feel invested in this experience, whether it's our typical style of game or not. The willingness to check out a new game with an open mind is part of what being a real gamer is all about!

 

[Midiman]

Since we're back on the horse

Then I guess you're not going to be fine. :[

Good. Dust has bland, uninteresting combat.

 

[Sotherius]

stuff.

Man, i can say for myself, i got into fighters, like, 8 months ago i guess, and i mean, i had contact with them before, when i was a kid i used to play mk3 and sf2 on my cousins snes, and i bought mvc3 in 2011, but i never got into, also metroidvanias in general, i'm also new to then. The idea that i got in touch with a lot of my favorite genres today, not much time ago, when i've been with games my whole life (mainly playing platformers, action games and rpgs), is something strange. Imagine then for the newer generations of people in general, and with all the marketing on the AAA games, or the high budget titles, is kinda scary.

 

[Demifiend]

Good for you man, let it all out. Everybody's got a wall of text they need to get off their shoulders every now and then, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Just don't forget to smile!

Since we're on a related gaming culture topic, I'll share a thought I've been having. I feel like something that actually kinda hurts gaming today, surprisingly, is the massive number of options that are out there. Gamers can get attached to a particular style of game they enjoy, like a FPS, and have so many titles to choose from in that genre that they never feel encouraged to try something different. Of course, a growing library of titles is a wonderful thing, and it's great when someone finds a game they love, but the downside is that some gamers can become jaded to other experiences. A kid stuck in the AAA bubble can look at any 2D-style game and say "Looks like crap from Newgrounds," because Newgrounds is probably the only place where he/she ever bothered to look at a 2D game in the first place.

I think a game like Indivisible is very important in this regard, because like Skullgirls, it might hopefully become a bridge to help people try something new. For those that feel frustrated by games with turned-based battles, maybe this game will tweak the formula enough to help them wrap their heads around that style of combat better. For those who feel metroidvanias are played out, maybe this game will show them an aspect of the gameplay that they never really thought of before. Maybe just the art, or attachment to the characters, will push them forward in ways they didn't expect.

Anyway, I think we should all definitely feel invested in this experience, whether it's our typical style of game or not. The willingness to check out a new game with an open mind is part of what being a real gamer is all about!

I think that one of the most important aspects on gaming is to use the console capabilities to create something new, exclusive to the console, a game that can't just be the same outside of it or it can't be ported because it uses an specific chip or something, kinda like the Sega Genesis/Super Nintendo competence, SN used chips like the Super FX to increase the graphical capabilities of the SNES making games such as Starfox or Donkey Kong Country, but the SG had Blast Processing, kinda like that, consoles aren't just like those experiences anymore, because nobody bothers to create a new full experience that can only be played on a certain console, is tiring that every game announced is on PS4/Xbox One/PC, but we care a lot more about the PC owners than the console owners.

Because consoles aren't demonstrating something that a computer can't do, i know that computers before were more powerful than domestic consoles, but they had different games altogether, and even in those times, the consoles were predominant since the market for them was smart, was interesting and was simply charming, what happened with the old funny commercials?, what happened with the consoles interesting exclusives?, what happened with actual marketing for the videogames?, sadly, there is none that can be actually interesting, the TV commercials for example are the most "meh" remember the crazy shit like dancing, jumping, the silly music and footage of the gameplay?, it was cheesy but charming, it makes wonder how the game could be.

The evolution of videogames is something fascinating, it gets more advanced but at the same time more complicated, games complicate themselves when time passes, with all the Updates, Dlc's, half assed released games, is just a mess, now, there is absolutely no control of this, everyone is doing what their please (Like my country) and therefore, while this can be good because certain fans of certain genres are acquiring more games for themselves, you can note that some games are decreasing their quality aswell, for example, when the first indie 8 bit games were released, they were seen as something new, and it could be interesting and what could you do with them, just look at this guy for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvx4xXhZMrU (I couldn't put the video on media, sorry for that)

He is showing what you could do with Retro City Rampage, a game that initially started as a demake of GTA3, and now, it's his own game, with his own story, exploiting the nes graphics and make a game that no one though it could've been done in those systems, this is the kind of things i'm expecting on the new generation, i mean, i don't expect demakes or something, i expect developers to use the potential of a console to make a game on their own, to make a game that just can't be brought on other systems.

Also, while i like the Indie games (Because, we have to admit, on the PS4,XONE and Wii U, the indie games represents almost the 50% of more of the games available on those systems, 25% of ports of older games, and the rest for normal games), it's becoming kinda tiring the "8 bit" or "Pixel Art" thing that everyone is making, i mean, i know they are indie, their budged isn't the greatest thing, but can they do something at least among the lines of a 16bit game era, or 32 if it's too much to ask, we have tools that allows us to make something better than just simply "Retrieve the old nostalgia!", Indie games (most of the time) are fantastic, they contribute to many of the things that AAA games aren't allowed to, but sadly, i fear the day when Indie games becomes like AAA games and release half assed games like those companies, i don't know how, but it's going to happen someday so, that's the reason i'm expecting Indivisible to be an awesome and full game, because i don't want Lab.0 to fall like many nowadays companies.

 

[@J-Boogie]

The only thing I'll say about all that is the following: the main reason why they had silly and fun is because there was only one demographic back then: kids. And TV and magazines were the only ways to disseminate information so they needed to catch your eye so you could bug your parents.

There's a lot more I could say but I think it could really use its own thread by this point.

 

[Kai]

I'm actually really interested in how the story will turn out. Not the specifics, but the overall plot. JRPGs have a long history of awful, awful stories, with character motivations that make little sense and plot twists that are even worse. This game is heavily inspired by Japanese games, but it's not Japanese. I guess what I'm curious of is this: is shitty storytelling a part of the genre?

Skullgirls had better storytelling than any other fighter I've played, so I feel like we're gonna be ok.

Spoiler

Just to be clear, I feel like JRPG stories started getting especially terrible around the PS1 era, not just, you know... always. FFVI da best forever.

 

[Magma442]

Only time I feel like DLC is acceptable is when

Skullgirls had better storytelling than any other fighter I've played, so I feel like we're gonna be ok.

Im going to disagree with you there. I would have to say Mk10 has the best story mode because it and mortal kombat 9 proved fighting games could have story.

still waiting on that canon story though

 

[Denizen]

I'm actually really interested in how the story will turn out. Not the specifics, but the overall plot. JRPGs have a long history of awful, awful stories, with character motivations that make little sense and plot twists that are even worse. This game is heavily inspired by Japanese games, but it's not Japanese. I guess what I'm curious of is this: is shitty storytelling a part of the genre?

At some point I expect to be moved to tears, any less would be a disappointment...
...Nah not really, but forreal knowing Alex Ahad I'm sure that Indivisible will set the bar real high

 

[Kai]

I would have to say Mk10 has the best story mode because it and mortal kombat 9 proved fighting games could have story.

I don't think bigger budget = better. The writing in MK is godawful. And I say this as a person who got some enjoyment out of them both and played them pretty much only for the single player.

 

[Magma442]

I want to say with Sg um disjointed arcade mode Im excited to actually see a coherent story for once. time for lab zero to show us their mettle

 

[Denizen]

I don't think bigger budget = better. The writing in MK is godawful. And I say this as a person who got some enjoyment out of them both and played them pretty much only for the single player.

THANK YOU. I dunno if people just have low standards or if they just never played a game with decent writing, but either way I'm tired of hearing them praise MK

 

[Magma442]

I don't think bigger budget = better. The writing in MK is godawful. And I say this as a person who got some enjoyment out of them both and played them pretty much only for the single player.

Mk9 was awful but Mk10 had wayyy better story then 9. my problem with Sg story is it feels disjointed due to not having an arcade one. I o think a bigger budget would help SG story mode. Truth be told the only story I did like is Big bands story...

Last thing I'll say about this is I'll reserve my judgment for if we ever get an actual canon story mode. since the 'story' modes conflict with each other.

And besides the best story mode in a fighting game is Sonic the fighters story.

 

[Kai]

Mk9 was awful but Mk10 had wayyy better story then 9. my problem with Sg story is it feels disjointed due to not having an arcade one. I o think a bigger budget would help SG story mode. Truth be told the only story I did like is Big bands story...

you know what this is a conversation for another time.

MKX used the same literal plot armor twice, dude. It's shit.

But, because this is in relation to Indivisible, I'll reiterate that I'm not that worried about it in this game. I felt the moment to moment storytelling was solid in SG, and I'm just hoping for some more solid character building in the long term, here. I'm curious to see what LZ feels is proper motivation for a world-spanning adventure. You don't have to kill God every time you go on a quest in a JRPG, etc.

 

[Magma442]

inb4 "Denizen Likes this" (called it)

maybe you know something we dont (You did go to L) after all). But I hope to god that theres some character development and a cohesive story in Inadvisable. like I said before I want to see an actual story to see how Lab zero can pull off a story. now im not saying its going to be god awful no no I have high hopes for it and cannot wait to see what L0 does.

 

[Denizen]

Alex Ahad, and Lab Zero respectively, realized that the most important part of a story is the characters, so in Skullgirls each and every character with a role in the story is fully developed.
Even the background characters have life in them, just look at Filia's classmates. Most games don't do that, I don't have any worries about how Indivisible will turn out.

inb4 "Denizen Likes this" (called it)

so I like what Kai is saying, wtf is your point???

 

[Magma442]

Im not saying nothing I just noticed you like every one of Kai's posts nothing wrong just a pattern I noticed.

Either way what where we on about again? oh yeah indvisable story mode. was it stated what the main plot would be about already?

 

[Gamrdogg]

So about those Tapir plushies, are they going to be an actual enemy/ creature in the game, and will they be common? Because they are so adorable. They're giving off mascot enemy vibes to me.

 

[MooseHogBro]

I thought Inustice's story was pretty good. MK9 had

Spoiler

Sindel kill half the good guys in like one blow.

That was bullshit.

 

[Denizen]

So about those Tapir plushies, are they going to be an actual enemy/ creature in the game, and will they be common? Because they are so adorable. They're giving off mascot enemy vibes to me.

It looks more like an animal companion, not an enemy. I could be wrong though.

was it stated what the main plot would be about already?

They wouldn't reveal the main plot of the game when it doesn't even exist yet. The most you're gonna know is that "Ajna discovers a mysterious power in herself, and sets off on a world-spanning journey. Along the way, a number of unique heroes will join her on her quest." Get comfortable with that for a while.

Spoiler

Im not saying nothing I just noticed you like every one of Kai's posts nothing wrong just a pattern I noticed.

I don't point out every time you post Cerebella fan art do I? Keep that shit to yourself.

 

[Gamrdogg]

It looks more like an animal companion, not an enemy. I could be wrong though.

Well as long I see plenty of them I'm fine with what they are in the game.

 

[Wenzel]

So...indivisible.

 

[Magma442]

It's an upcoming game from Lab zero.

 

[MooseHogBro]

How do you say Ajna's name?

 

[Gamrdogg]

How do you say Ajna's name?

I'm guessing "Ajeh-Nah"

 

[Squire Grooktook]

I'm actually really interested in how the story will turn out. Not the specifics, but the overall plot. JRPGs have a long history of awful, awful stories, with character motivations that make little sense and plot twists that are even worse. This game is heavily inspired by Japanese games, but it's not Japanese. I guess what I'm curious of is this: is shitty storytelling a part of the genre?

Which Jrpg's in particular are you talking about/have played?

I agree that ff6 > every ff afterwards storywise though.

For ps2 and up jrpg's, I like SMT Nocturne, anything in the Fire Emblem series, Souls if you count that as an rpg, Trails in The Sky and YS (although that's usually more a case of making an excuse plot likable through good presentation and script).

I like the Persona games as well, although I find them flawed in a number of ways, to the point that I don't count them among my favorites.

I hear good things about Xenoblade too, though I have yet to delve into that one though.

 

[KaboomKid]

it's becoming kinda tiring the "8 bit" or "Pixel Art" thing that everyone is making, i mean, i know they are indie, their budged isn't the greatest thing, but can they do something at least among the lines of a 16bit game era, or 32 if it's too much to ask

Hmmm, is it too much to ask? Well, as I imagine you already know, many times the answer is "yes." It's not always about the developers' resources either.

That's the great thing about indie games. They're not a genre, a platform, or an aesthetic. They'll always be a relevant source for new ideas, because those games are simply whatever the creator(s) want them to be. If they wanna make To the Moon, they can do it. If they wanna make Aquaria, no sweat. If you want them to do something different, they can hand you a tissue.

Like, let's be real for a sec. We already know the kind of blockheads that are going to show up to the Indivisible campaign once it gets started. Thankfully, comments like "weeb fetish game," or "durhur lastgen gtfo," won't have any effect on Labzero's vision. They'll make the game they want to make, and we'll be along for the ride.

Of course, if you feel there's an aspect of gaming that's been woefully unexplored, then you could always, y'know...make your own game. Like you said, the tools are there and waiting!

 

[Demifiend]

Since when people started to assume that bigger budget = better game, Do i remind you that Destiny, the game that had 500 Million dollars, the largest budget in any game ever, is considered for many people and critics alike a "meh" game, like many other shooters, and the fact that the game itself isn't finished?, aswell some questionable gameplay decisions here and there.

Budget helps, you can't deny that, but all it comes down to "How you make the game", and how you manage to set all the elements you want in a game, aswell how you implement the gameplay, the graphics, the music, games are like pieces of art, you have to to treat them well in order to do a good game, if not, it can be disastrous. Making a game is like cooking, no matter how expensive the food you buy, the expensive the instruments you buy, if you have shit skills, the food is going to be shit, no matter what, on the contrary, if someone has less expensive food but incredible skills, they will make something good, even with tiny pieces of it.

Hmmm, is it too much to ask? Well, as I imagine you already know, many times the answer is "yes." It's not always about the developers' resources either.

That's the great thing about indie games. They're not a genre, a platform, or an aesthetic. They'll always be a relevant source for new ideas, because those games are simply whatever the creator(s) want them to be. If they wanna make To the Moon, they can do it. If they wanna make Aquaria, no sweat. If you want them to do something different, they can hand you a tissue.

Like, let's be real for a sec. We already know the kind of blockheads that are going to show up to the Indivisible campaign once it gets started. Thankfully, comments like "weeb fetish game," or "durhur lastgen gtfo," won't have any effect on Labzero's vision. They'll make the game they want to make, and we'll be along for the ride.

Of course, if you feel there's an aspect of gaming that's been woefully unexplored, then you could always, y'know...make your own game. Like you said, the tools are there and waiting!

I love how Indie games can be anything, you want a 2d platformer?, we have it!, you want a game about a apocalyptic setting as a roguelike game?, you have it!, this is one of the things i adore in most indie games, when i made that statement i completely forgot about Freedom Planet, a game that plays and feels like a 16 bit game, honoring games such as Sonic, Rocket Knight, Pulseman,etc. Aswell i saw some KS where people are making projects with 2D platformers with 16 bit graphics, this is actually kinda nice (Besides the fact that i love both 8 bit and 16 bit platformers, i rather play a 16 bit platformer for better circumstances), how i wish that the "AAA" companies could make a game as imaginative as the indie games, as i said, Nintendo is, practically the only one doing that job well, and still manages to make it on the market (I loved how they supported the Indie market, i especially like the Indie games they have on there, like The Legend of Dark Witch or Azura Striker Gunvolt), it seems that the Indie games are just getting better and better than the AAA games, while those are decreasing their quality and losing the imagination to make another game.

In campaigns there are a lot of people who will curse or say bad words, heck, when the Skullgirls DLC roster was announced, everyone was fighting for Annie, others for Eliza, etc. I just hope that this game can be successfully funded, though, i can't imagine how the story will be in these games, the protagonist is dark skinned so should we make a game based on Indian cultures?, or should we add Japanese traces because the animation seems from there?, i can't imagine what kind of characters (Especially the NPC's) will be made for this game, i hope it's not a mix between the Greek, Rome, Spain, Indian, Asiatic culture in a bag, it can be confusing, but, since this is a videogame, anything can happen, but i don't mind that, the more variety, the better.

P.D: I want to make my own game, i'm interested on using RPG Maker as a starter point, when i'm finally able to conquer that program (When it comes to tools, designs, just about everything) i will probably make my own game, it will take long time, since you were nice, it would be neat if you could play it (When i finally decide to finish it, of course)

 

[Kai]

So about those Tapir plushies, are they going to be an actual enemy/ creature in the game, and will they be common? Because they are so adorable. They're giving off mascot enemy vibes to me.

If you're looking for mascot enemies look at the merchandising. Didn't they show off a prototype backer reward already?

Which Jrpg's in particular are you talking about/have played?

Almost any JRPG from PS1 onward will likely have what I consider to be embarrassing missteps in their storytelling, and characters that are beyond cliche. And they'll be super noticeable, too.

• Why doesn't Tifa tell Cloud about Zack, especially when she can see Sephiroth exploiting that?
• Why do we only just learn about the GF's memory wiping side effects the moment we're introduced to an amnesia related plot development? Really, none of you remembered any of the others? And are we ever gonna talk about the GODDAMN MOON MONSTERS again?
  
• Why does Zidane having properly developed human empathy somehow make him a better killer, more in-line with Trance? That's completely arbitrary.

That's just one example from each of the FFs, but every smaller JRPG from Grandia to Legend of Legaia was absolutely littered with nonsensical character interactions, foggy motives, and generally insufficient explanation for like, half of what was going on at any given time. Don't even get me started on the Breath of Fire series, the epitome of, "because it's in the script."

It's just... I'm 30, now. In JRPGs, every, "cool," character is incredibly lame, every, "funny" character is downright annoying, and every, "cute girl," is a 14 yr old kid. I aged, but the genre never did. It's still full of games made for the teenage version of myself. I just want better from LZ. I know they can do better.

Spoiler

My complaint largely holds true across most forms of popular Japanese animated media, but we're talking about RPGs.

 

[Gamrdogg]

If you're looking for mascot enemies look at the merchandising. Didn't they show off a prototype backer reward already?

Ah, did they? Is there a link to it, if there is any?