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One Big Night! One Big Show! One Big Man! One Big Band! General Discussion

Originally I planned on doing it that way, partly for the style of swapping high and low, partly for the ease of parrying the side switch, but then I counted the hits and realized how easy it was to parry it without lows.
 
@Mike_Z, I noticed Big Band's tag in deals chip damage, a thing no other tag in does that. Am I correct to assume it's not intended?
 
Muro said:
@Mike_Z, I noticed Big Band's tag in deals chip damage, a thing no other tag in does that. Am I correct to assume it's not intended?
Probably not! But I don't horribly disagree with it because he's Big etc.
 
I added a section on Oki to the compendium. I put in every practical setup that I know about. Let me know if there's anything I left out. Thanks!
 
Agent J said:
Does this have any advantages over the usual c.MK s.HP loop, which also works midscreen?
 
@Agent J does that work on heavies? I've had trouble doing OTG s.MKx2 on heavies in the past, but that was for combos. In a double snap where they can't tech blue bounces it's probably easier.
 
mcpeanuts said:
@Agent J does that work on heavies? I've had trouble doing OTG s.MKx2 on heavies in the past, but that was for combos. In a double snap where they can't tech blue bounces it's probably easier.
it does, you just have to OTG with s.lk, and use both s.mk hits. That does the trick
 
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Thanks for all the info in here. Sorry if this is really basic, but I'm fairly new to this game. jMK seems pretty interesting in that more button taps are possible (not sure what the limit is). Is there a good use of this spinning clarinet?
 
indieanimator said:
Thanks for all the info in here. Sorry if this is really basic, but I'm fairly new to this game. jMK seems pretty interesting in that more button taps are possible (not sure what the limit is). Is there a good use of this spinning clarinet?

One tap for drawing the clarinet, two taps for making it spin and do a bunch of hits. One-hit j.MK is good for restand combos and fast overheads, two-hit j.MK allows you to reliably chain into j.HK > other stuff pretty much 100% of the time. Also good for ending air combos before timpani.
 
Well those things were pretty much based on the same thing, so yeah
 
So... What are some good assists to use with this guy?
 
Dime_x said:
So... What are some good assists to use with this guy?

i like using a low hitting assist (specifically i use squigs cr.HP. i see you could easily use paninwheel cr.MK instead), and then set up corner traps using instant overhead j.MK + assist for a tricky high low. once they start catching on to that then you can just go for a double low into overhead (cr.LK+assist-cr.MPxxgiant step), or you can fake the j.MK +assist and hit HP instead, although in reality whenever i do that its actually me fucking up the inputs lol.

just finish any midscreen combo by using heavy brass knuckles (which gives you more time to chase them down than A train does) and start your brainless corner mixups!
 
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Thanks for that :)

Unfortunately pw cr.mk isnt a low (i know... It should be) but perhaps cr.lk could be used. Yeah thats a good suggestion for squigly cr.hp since it works well with pw as well.

I'm specifically wondering how lockdown would work with BB... I'm looking for something that is more than just ok... Im looking for something that is bordering on abusive... Lol. Dont know if thats possible, but yeah.
 
is that the one where she spins her wheel? well ill be damned i always assumed that was a low since like every painwheel player ever uses it (must just be for the lockdown).

another good assist for band is bella antiair grab. you restand, L Atrain +call assist. they jump and get hit by bella, stay grounded and get hit by atrain. although actually it would work way better the other way around with bella on point since then you can convert well off either option.
 
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Evilweevle said:
is that the one where she spins her wheel?

Naw the wheel spin is her cr.mp and doesnt hit low, its just there for lockdown. Her cr.mk is the second move that painwheels use in the general 3hit ground starter chain that she uses. And it doesnt hit low either. The only comboable low pw has is her 1 hit cr.lk which is 11 frame startup (technically speaking painwheel can combo off her fully charged armor sweep as well... But thats extremely rare to get a fully charged sweep to hit)


Ive seen excelebella used with BB but it wasnt anything more than a minor annoyance when i played against it... I'll have to see how i can use it though :)
 
I think Big Band benefits a lot from an assist that controls some horizontal space, to deal with opponents in his weak spot (Just in front of him, outside of BB's throw range, but within unreactable high/low mixup range)
This lets you avoid backing yourself into a corner when put on the defensive, since he doesn't really have any buttons to safely control this space himself
Most assists that are good for lockdown are suitable for this (Bomber, drag 'n' bite, cerecopter), and projectile assists are probably effective as well

Cilia slide might be good for him, but I haven't seen/tried that enough to really say
 
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anybody use big bands cr.HP much? the hitbox on that thing is massive plus it puts the opp in a tonne of hitstun for the sound stun. it is kinda slow but seems like it would be good to use at 1/2 screen to just throw out there.
 
Evilweevle said:
anybody use big bands cr.HP much? the hitbox on that thing is massive plus it puts the opp in a tonne of hitstun for the sound stun. it is kinda slow but seems like it would be good to use at 1/2 screen to just throw out there.
Zeknife tends to use it pretty often, I think. Can be a good poke indeed.
 
Evilweevle said:
anybody use big bands cr.HP much? the hitbox on that thing is massive plus it puts the opp in a tonne of hitstun for the sound stun. it is kinda slow but seems like it would be good to use at 1/2 screen to just throw out there.

I use it a lot actually, especially against airdashing characters who tend to just run right into it.
 
Evilweevle said:
anybody use big bands cr.HP much? the hitbox on that thing is massive plus it puts the opp in a tonne of hitstun for the sound stun. it is kinda slow but seems like it would be good to use at 1/2 screen to just throw out there.
It's pretty hard to punish unless they aren't right in your face, and if it hits you can get a ton of damage or a sliding knockdown for free. Also, the hitbox dodges lows or something.
 
I should use c.HP more apparently.

I think that LK A-Train is not used that much while it is pretty interesting. I'm studying to use it as a reversal.
 
Beuzer0 said:
I should use c.HP more apparently.

I think that LK A-Train is not used that much while it is pretty interesting. I'm studying to use it as a reversal.
L A-Train has a 23-frame startup and no invulnerability frames or super armor. There's nothing about the move you could use as a reversal, and your follow ups are limited to a throw-scaled SSJ, as far as I know. L A-Train has its uses, but... Not many.
 
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I can't help thinking that any time c.HP was a good idea, Cymbal Clash was a better idea.
 
Emuchu said:
L A-Train has a 23-frame startup and no invulnerability frames or super armor. There's nothing about the move you could use as a reversal, and your follow ups are limited to a throw-scaled SSJ, as far as I know. L A-Train has its uses, but... Not many.
True. Then it's more as a way to keep pressure in defense, I guess.
 
mcpeanuts said:
I can't help thinking that any time c.HP was a good idea, Cymbal Clash was a better idea.
c.HP is faster and covers a wider area, it also dodges a lot of low attacks/sweeps with its elevated hurtbox (this is pretty amazing)
You can call assists during/after it and it's less of a commitment overall than TK cymbal
The fact that it can trade isn't really an issue since almost any trade is going to be in your favor.
 
Some mans on IRC was complaining about autocorrect SSJ, so I decided to make a reset that uses it. You can do this at any time after any launcher, of course.

 
mcpeanuts said:
I can't help thinking that any time c.HP was a good idea, Cymbal Clash was a better idea.

If you include all the jump startup and the longer startup on cybal crash, cr.HP is something like 5 or 6 frames faster than cymbal crash.

Plus if Cymbal Clash whiffs you're moving backwards and losing space. if cr.HP whiffs you can whiff cancel into LP Rush or Emergency Break and move forward.
 
Who are the best big bands out there on video to watch? Im still at a loss as to,certain facets of how to play the character or how to think with him... I'm looking for a more balanced type of game play from him that isnt super unsafe... I know thats a tall order, if not impossible, but i do think that with the right assists it can work... I just need to see it in action.
 
Dime_x said:
Who are the best big bands out there on video to watch? Im still at a loss as to,certain facets of how to play the character or how to think with him... I'm looking for a more balanced type of game play from him that isnt super unsafe... I know thats a tall order, if not impossible, but i do think that with the right assists it can work... I just need to see it in action.
You want a character that isn't Big Band, it sounds like.

That's kinda what BB does. He makes the opponent guess but he's dead if he is predictable. You could try to live off only normals and LP brass... but good luck!
 
Dime_x said:
Who are the best big bands out there on video to watch? Im still at a loss as to,certain facets of how to play the character or how to think with him... I'm looking for a more balanced type of game play from him that isnt super unsafe... I know thats a tall order, if not impossible, but i do think that with the right assists it can work... I just need to see it in action.
In brazil we have a pretty good BB that plays on our weeklys

look for "jorge" in the video description
 
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Thanks for that link guys, combined with what i already figured out plus Jorge style of play i can see how BB works theoretically. He needs an assist to make his unsafe shit, safe. Basically. But he can poke with things like lp brass (made even better with st.mk kara into it and the other versions of brass) or sweep, or cr.hp for a decent midrange poking game, then has mixups off of j.lk such as land into low/high/throw which are made more safe by calling an assist during some of them, e-brake is good for overall pressure during assist pokestrings, and command grab becomes a real threat against a cornered opponent.


His neutral overall seems to be like a lot of double jumpers without the greatest safe air to air... To be pretty turtly. Overall i have a much greater sense of his overall playstyle.


But i have one question left... Which is rhetorical, which is how do i safely attack with him... Like getting in from the midrange aka playing him super offensive for short burst of time... I'm thinking that lk bomber is where its at... It seems to do a bit of everything for BB. But i will need to see how it synergizes with his specials.
 
If you want to play offensively at midrange you need assist cover.

You have LP brass but that is still a defensive poke more than anything because it isn't going to get you much.

You can jump at them with j.LK, but that is predictable.

Of course you have plenty of options there... but not safe ones. MK A train is at its strongest there, for example.
 
There's also the dropkick. Something @Yaya's been doing a lot lately is j.HK and call his assist very late. If it hits he can actually combo off it, if it's blocked he always times it so that when he recovers from his ground tech you're still blocking the assist. It's surprisingly high priority too, you wouldn't think it was just looking at the hitboxes but I've found it hard to challenge even with air grabs.
 
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So because we probably don't want to flood the tier list discussion with buffs and nerfs, I want to bring up an idea brought up over there: a feintable H Giant Step. Basically to give the move some utility and make people think twice about braindead super punishing and actually make people jump in the air like he wants them to.
 
mcpeanuts said:
There's also the dropkick. Something @Yaya's been doing a lot lately is j.HK and call his assist very late. If it hits he can actually combo off it, if it's blocked he always times it so that when he recovers from his ground tech you're still blocking the assist. It's surprisingly high priority too, you wouldn't think it was just looking at the hitboxes but I've found it hard to challenge even with air grabs.
It is ok, the hitbox isn't all that fantastic, people just aren't used to it.

The reason it is so effective I think is because BB's hurtboxes very quickly go from very vertical to very horizontal.

The raw priority on the move is actually kinda bad and you want to aim pretty deep with it. Calling a lockdwon assist with it is definitely a good idea though.

I think it is better at coming down on people with though, not jumping up at them with, which is his main problem and what his punches SEEM to be supposed to do but just seem to not.
 
Tomo009 said:
It is ok, the hitbox isn't all that fantastic, people just aren't used to it.

The reason it is so effective I think is because BB's hurtboxes very quickly go from very vertical to very horizontal.

The raw priority on the move is actually kinda bad and you want to aim pretty deep with it. Calling a lockdwon assist with it is definitely a good idea though.

I think it is better at coming down on people with though, not jumping up at them with, which is his main problem and what his punches SEEM to be supposed to do but just seem to not.
You don't need amazing priority (What it has is really good though!) when every trade is going to be in your favour, short of running into titan knuckle or a dp assist
 
zeknife said:
You don't need amazing priority (What it has is really good though!) when every trade is going to be in your favour, short of running into titan knuckle or a dp assist
So yeah, you want to aim it deep.

So I guess up close it is a fairly decent option if you are aiming to trade. At mid range though where you are too close to safely cymbal, it will be stuffed by common air to airs.
 
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