Poll: Are the Beta changes ready for prime-time?

[Doburu]

I voted no. The undizzy change is unnecessary. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. You're also going to probably drive away a lot of good players in the community.

 

[IsaVulpes]

The undizzy change is unnecessary. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

And you know it ain't broke?

You're also going to probably drive away a lot of good players in the community.

I hear this claimed again and again by people who are not part of said good players.
How many good players do you actually know who are driven away by this and say they will drop the game if they don't have combofest anymore?
What if I told you there are good players who are/were driven away by 20s of nothingness on every touch? Magic?

 

[iLoli]

If a player is considered "good" because he has masted one aspect of the game and nothing else then they're not good, son.

Why do people not realize that?

You really think Valle or Diago would do worse in sf4 if there wasn't that strong ass oki?

BBCP is really different compared to the older games and the same niggas are winning.

The same DOA players have adjusted to 5, the same VF players to FS, that's just how things work.

I swear to the almighty loli from now on if people use that tired line I'm going to keep your name, write it down, and follow you into every player lobby you go into and work that ass as soon as I get a pc.

 

[KhaosMuffins]

It's not like we have any good players, anyways.
There are just bad players, and not-as-bad players.

 

[blufang]

I voted no. The undizzy change is unnecessary. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. You're also going to probably drive away a lot of good players in the community.

Translation: It's going to drive Doburu from the community cause you can't do anything without TOD combos. Plz don't speak for top players, I'm sure MikeZ is in contact with them and he is well aware of their opinions.

 

[Darklightjg1]

And you know it ain't broke?

-Corner combo? Check.
-Starts with awkward jumpin? Check.
-Uses two meters and assist? Check.
-Gives over 2 bars to the opponent? Check.

I'll allow it.

Frickin' combo Nazis.

 

[dekillsage]

lold

Beta sucks

 

[IsaVulpes]

240 Undizzy kills all combos
Make it 400 Undizzy pls

 

[Spencer]

-Corner combo? Check.
-Starts with awkward jumpin? Check.
-Uses two meters and assist? Check.
-Gives over 2 bars to the opponent? Check.

I'll allow it.

Frickin' combo Nazis.

Let's just cut the bullshit and say if you get 5 bars of meter, you can push all 6 attacks and autowin the game.

 

[Darklightjg1]

Maybe being able to combo into something that does high base damage several times has something to do with all that damage she's getting. You wanna talk about loops? That shit was... excellent.

7.7k by the eighth hit. Gimme a fuckin' break.

 

[Shnarfl]

Let's just cut the bullshit and say if you get 5 bars of meter, you can push all 6 attacks and autowin the game.

come on dude, its not like anyone has the ability to chain 5 supers to deal 8.5k damage and combo afterwards with a regular bnb on two thirds of the roster

that would be silly

 

[Mao]

come on dude, its not like anyone has the ability to chain 5 supers to deal 8.5k damage and combo afterwards with a regular bnb on two thirds of the roster

that would be silly

Megalith Array.

 

[scrubbyscum999]

I still don't like new changes, just putting that out there. Even if we do find some ways around it, it just sets a standard of what might just be constantly making combos shorter. Maybe it won't, maybe it will, but I don't feel like rolling the dice. I already know someone who left SG this weekend because he feels the changes will be put it and we'll have different versions of the game every 4 months. Of course though, we should just accept losing players when we don't even have to. Cause we need to constant changes on a game that is fine the way it is right now. Changes that I swear nobody asked for until these new undizzy stuff was starting to be tested.

 

[Doburu]

Translation: It's going to drive Doburu from the community cause you can't do anything without TOD combos. Plz don't speak for top players, I'm sure MikeZ is in contact with them and he is well aware of their opinions.

I don't have TOD combos and I didn't say I would stop playing the game if undizzy was changed. I'm not speaking for top players either, I'm just making an assumption. Its not like every character can do a TOD combo and the ones I have seen are quite impractical in a match anyway. Unless I see something like a corner to corner TOD that only costs 1 meter, I honestly don't see anything wrong with undizzy the way it is.

 

[winnie]

So much nope in this thread...

 

[IsaVulpes]

Changes that I swear nobody asked for until these new undizzy stuff was starting to be tested.

Given the confidence with which you're able to claim things you have zero proof for and no clue about, I'd strongly advise you to pursue a career in religion.

 

[Shnarfl]

Megalith Array.

how would you do 8.5k with Megalith Array on 1v1? just wonderin'

also that's not the thing that I'm totally not talking about because it does not exist nope no siree

 

[IsaVulpes]

how would you do 8.5k with Megalith Array on 1v1? just wonderin'

Something along these lines

 

[scrubbyscum999]

Given the confidence with which you're able to claim things you have zero proof for and no clue about, I'd strongly advise you to pursue a career in religion.

The irony of this comment since I'm an atheist is quite amusing. So yeah, going to keep on saying my opinion, cause that is what this thread all about. If people did say they wanted changes, the point is that the fact it didn't blow up till the beta tests should tell you something. Should tell you it wasn't a big deal.

 

[DARKNESSxEAGLE]

The irony of this comment since I'm an atheist is quite amusing. So yeah, going to keep on saying my opinion, cause that is what this thread all about. If people did say they wanted changes, the point is that the fact it didn't blow up till the beta tests should tell you something. Should tell you it wasn't a big deal.

Speaking on other people's behalf is not speaking your own opinion, if you were around on the previous Skullheart, or actively talking with the community you would see there were plenty of people dissatisfied with combo length.

 

[dekillsage]

Make my abc super do 8k

 

[Nap1400]

Make my abc super do 8k

Play Big Band, you're golden.

 

[scrubbyscum999]

Speaking on other people's behalf is not speaking your own opinion, if you were around on the previous Skullheart, or actively talking with the community you would see there were plenty of people dissatisfied with combo length.

Actually, I have been lurking on these forums for months, even on the previous Skullheart. I never saw a significant number of complaints. Not saying there were no complaints, I am saying if there were complaints they weren't overrunning the site. This is ultimately a battle of who saw what, so unless someone recorded like 100 posts of complaints we aren't going to get anywhere. Now maybe someone will give me a bunch of posts and I am proven wrong, but till then I am going by what I saw. Can we at least agree that there are people who are good at this game and some of those people could leave if the changes take place? Not even saying its most people, it may not be ANY people (Though I doubt that), but why go through such a risk when I don't even see a problem. It's a fighting game, there is always going to something "ridiculous" in it. Look at 3rd strike or MvC1 or 2, and those games had little to no changes from "Vanilla" versions.

Make my abc super do 8k

Ok, I'll bite dekillsage. Is this a joke about how we should nerf damage or how people are asking for too much TOD combos. Is it something else entirely? I am not good at picking up stuff like this. I am not mad or happy, I just seriously want to know bruh.

 

[DARKNESSxEAGLE]

There was a whole thread dedicated to people's opinions on long combos. Also this isn't the first restriction that's been applied to Skullgirls. This is very nearly the same reception Undizzy received when it was first mentioned, a lot of people hated it, many of those came to like it, there are still some that hate it (Even the highest level player at the moment) but they haven't left yet. It's the point that everyone's been making that shorter combos doesn't change anything but combo length, and the high level players aren't here solely for long combos as, if they wanted that, they would just play Marvel 3 or something.

 

[Luweewu]

I don't like that Undizzy has a visual representation. I liked doing various undizzy gimmicks since I knew where it was at most times while my opponent didn't, a la MvC2. Now that it has an indicator giving away everything, it's just a limiter mechanic. Sure you could still try and do some things here or there, but undizzy tactics are pretty much over with. Might as well say that since the topic was brought up.

-

In regards to the actual topic, I believe the Beta changes are largely good and that they should be implemented as soon as possible if Big Band is going to take a while to finish and the PS3/360 can get their patches sooner.

Since hardly anyone has talked about the counterhit and assist scaling changes, I assume they're good to stay by the majority (maybe tone down counterhit assist to 80%? :V). And I think the 1v1 Down change is good since it speeds solo matches up significantly. Yes, Downs aren't in the OP, but they're coming soon to a SG version near you.

Now on to the real meat of the issue, the undizzy change. Ultimately MDE/SQG/Steam Edition did not to its job completely. ToDs were still around for low meter, the undizzy limit was often effectively ignored, combos still lasted for a stupid amount of time and there was little reason not to do them over anything else. Basically we were stuck with SDE-light, which I guess some were quite happy with and still fine with to this day.

In any case, Mike wasn't all too happy with it and eventually bought out new Beta testing ideas. Stuff happened and things were tested, dropped, undropped, tweaked, retested, and polished into what we got in Beta now. What was originally a welcomed side-effect (shorter combos) became the main goal of the Beta. All the old issues seem to be fixed outside of ignoring Undizzy since it goes away twice as fast now, but even with that you can't avoid it for long. Most combos don't seem to last longer than 10 seconds and 6 chains (versus 15-25 seconds and upwards of 9+ chains in MDE). You could say that Beta is the Windows 7 to MDEs Vista.

So, now we're here, complaints all abound. "Killing creativity" makes it's return even though in every update of the game people find all kinds of new things and put new spins on old ones. "Top players will leave" comes back as well even though none, as far as I know, have actually said so. There's even some suggesting that people want this to get the console port out quicker somehow or that newbies from the Steam weekend are rigging the votes in Beta's favor; on this I just got to say @heroxoot, slow your roll.

Calm down. The game's not going to die. Top players likely won't leave, and even if some did new talent could emerge to take their place. Combos aren't dead and at least now doing something else like short combo -> reset -> short combo -> reset etc. is actually viable. Matches will just be faster and players will have more dynamic interaction than before. Here's an example.

-

TL;DR - Buff Fortune, nerf Squigly, give Val a DP

 

[dekillsage]

Ok, I'll bite dekillsage. Is this a joke about how we should nerf damage or how people are asking for too much TOD combos. Is it something else entirely? I am not good at picking up stuff like this. I am not mad or happy, I just seriously want to know bruh.

There are two things I'd want in the next patch. Good damage output and a cerebella teleport.
Don't think I'll be getting either of those things -_^b

 

[POS Industries]

There are two things I'd want in the next patch. Good damage output and a cerebella teleport.

We could call it the Bellaport.

 

[SpaceCadetKeon]

I say go for it. I'll adapt.

 

[winnie]

Skullheart: a place where everyone says you can have your own opinion then argues with you when your opinion contradicts theirs. What a beautiful thing. ;P

 

[KhaosMuffins]

I miss Pali.

 

[RemiKz]

I take no credit for this

 

[Duckator]

I don't like that Undizzy has a visual representation. I liked doing various undizzy gimmicks since I knew where it was at most times while my opponent didn't, a la MvC2. Now that it has an indicator giving away everything, it's just a limiter mechanic. Sure you could still try and do some things here or there, but undizzy tactics are pretty much over with. Might as well say that since the topic was brought up.

It was always just a limiter mechanic but now you can see where that limit is.

Not having a visual undizzy meter was as ridiculous as not having a visual super meter or health meter.

 

[Tomo009]

The bar brings with it its own set of mind games.

Now when you get near the end of the bar, your opponent will know undizzy is coming. From there they either mash to call you out or stop mashing (making them susceptible to your reset game)

Now that bursts can be seen coming, you can use undizzy bursts in a different way to IPS bursts, instead of it simply being a surprise thing, which is pretty gimmicky, you can use the threat of the oncoming burst to make your opponent NOT want to mash. Hence you have a situation where they have a CHOICE. Mind games.

 

[dekillsage]

nah.
I'm gonna just keep looking for the reset/burst bait and wait because there's nothing stopping me from doing so.

 

[Wenzel]

It was always just a limiter mechanic but now you can see where that limit is.

Not having a visual undizzy meter was as ridiculous as not having a visual super meter or health meter.

But now that is fixed, so...yay!

 

[Luweewu]

It was always just a limiter mechanic but now you can see where that limit is.

Not having a visual undizzy meter was as ridiculous as not having a visual super meter or health meter.

It is hardly the same as super meter (a value that fluctuates by both player's actions) or a health bar (A value that is static until something happens to your character; A value that determines who wins and loses the game). You, the attacker, knew (or should know) where undizzy was. It is a value that you alone have control over and could play with, and is only relevant when you are the one on the offensive. If you stop and they get back to neutral it's gone in 90f, or 30f now in Beta, and when it's gone it's irrelevant and has no further value to either player unlike super meter or health.

If you were just viewing it as a limiter mechanic and a nuisance instead of another part of the game to be exploited to your own gain, I guess that's fine. But some of us (or I at least) saw it as the latter. Oh well.

@Tomo009 to me (the attacker) it has rarely a surprise when Undizzy came up. And there was never a time where the opponent didn't have the choice to mash or not. Now they just won't mash. They'll also never be surprised since they will always know where it is, no matter how many different value games you play on them.
Yep. Mind games. Right.

 

[Tomo009]

It is hardly the same as super meter (a value that fluctuates by both player's actions) or a health bar (A value that is static until something happens to your character; A value that determines who wins and loses the game). You, the attacker, knew (or should know) where undizzy was. It is a value that you alone have control over and could play with, and is only relevant when you are the one on the offensive. If you stop and they get back to neutral it's gone in 90f, or 30f now in Beta, and when it's gone it's irrelevant and has no further value to either player unlike super meter or health.

If you were just viewing it as a limiter mechanic and a nuisance instead of another part of the game to be exploited to your own gain, I guess that's fine. But some of us (or I at least) saw it as the latter. Oh well.

@Tomo009 to me (the attacker) it has rarely a surprise when Undizzy came up. And there was never a time where the opponent didn't have the choice to mash or not. Now they just won't mash. They'll also never be surprised since they will always know where it is, no matter how many different value games you play on them.
Yep. Mind games. Right.

If they don't mash they are totally open. Unless you only have gimmicky resets, you have 50/50 situations. So mashing out is still a good option for them in any situation where they can. You also don't have to take the meter to the end, remember. You could reset a little before it, if you think they will be anticipating it at the end so strongly as you claim.

 

[Dime]

@Luweewu

The undizzy meter does basically little to nothing for the defender. It tells me where my opponent will HAVE TO go for super ender or dhc or reset, only if he does his stuff right at that point. It basically gives no more information than what a defender would already get from playing a few matches against an opponent. However it may affect gimmicky burst baits... But those are gimmicks anyways and don't need to be mentioned.

The undizzy meter is there for 1 primary reason: to show the attacker exactly where they are in undizzy when they are 2-3 resets into an attack sequence, which before it was near impossible to keep track of.

1 reset was easy, multiple resets was VERY hard.

TLDR:

Get better non gimmicky burst baits and use your resets at different times than always at the end of combos/full undizzy meter.

 

[RemiKz]

nah.
I'm gonna just keep looking for the reset/burst bait and wait because there's nothing stopping me from doing so.

If that means less people mashing supers while I try to reset them, that's fine.

 

[View619]

Visible undizzy meter was needed. Defender being able to see when he can burst means he stops mashing? Great, no fear of getting hit by mashed super during resets, go for your 50/50. Now the attacker doesn't have to worry about where he is in terms of undizzy.

Now, maybe we'll get supers locking burst soon to make combos during burst-able state for extra damage a viable tactic? Or does knockdown already take care of that?