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[POLL] Are you looking forward to the beta changes?

Are you looking forward to the beta changes?

  • Yes

    Votes: 47 45.2%

  • No, I prefer MDE (Squigly Patch)

    Votes: 25 24.0%

  • No and I don't prefer MDE

    Votes: 5 4.8%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 2 1.9%

  • I don't care. I will continue playing/avoiding the game the same amount either way.

    Votes: 23 22.1%

  • Other (Elaborate in a post)

    Votes: 2 1.9%
  • Total voters
    104
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KhaosMuffins said:
I'm expecting the people who wanted the patch so badly to continue complaining. I expect everyone to complain, really.
I just want my fightstick back.

Folks will complain just as much, but the game will be better and become more timeless.

I think the best games are often the ones that are complained about the most- if a game isn't bad, folks stop complaining about it because they're playing something else. Usually when folks complain about a game they're still playing, it's because they like the game.
 
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Welcome boys welcome all to the Wheel of Mike Z, where dreams come true and people complain about it.

What will our lord and savior begrudgingly do? Spin the wheel and find out!

GI731pr.gif
 
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Shnarfl said:
Welcome boys welcome all to the Wheel of Mike Z, where dreams come true and people complain about it.

What will our lord and savior begrudgingly do? Spin the wheel and find out!
I got lose a turn...
 
We've heard a lot of counter-arguments as to why short combos won't make the game better but not a lot of arguments being made as to why long combos are good for the game.

I'd like to hear your thoughts.
 
Shnarfl said:
Welcome boys welcome all to the Wheel of Mike Z, where dreams come true and people complain about it.

What will our lord and savior begrudgingly do? Spin the wheel and find out!

GI731pr.gif
Lock the thread lock the forums ban everyone involved we're done here
 
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Shnarfl said:
lolstuff


See you all in Eliza patch for the dancing never stops. Mike Z (A) + SH vs Mike Z (B) + SH :3.
Broken Loose said:
Yep, the changes now make it so that you die from 2 hits instead of dying from 2 hits.

For a second, a brief moment I actually thought Mike would ignore the screechers who play SG exclusively for the panty shots, single player combos, fanservice and the like. It was when he said in the past he has been too nice with combo changes.....silly me.
 
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Can we just get people actually trying out and playing the beta against real people so we can at least clear up what the changes actually do and don't affect? Just so we at least know what we should and shouldn't be complaining about, because a lot of really iffy points are coming up on both sides of the argument.
 
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Jason said:
We've heard a lot of counter-arguments as to why short combos won't make the game better but not a lot of arguments being made as to why long combos are good for the game.

I'd like to hear your thoughts.
I overall hope we satisfy peoples demand for short combos. I felt like "long combos" are red herring to other issues that make SG unattractive to new players. Hopefully when Eliza or Beowulf are out, We get to see new criticisms and complaints about the game
 
Also on a side note, quick reset did get nerfed. That 1 frame opening between that throw or overhead just isn't enough for any meaningful deterioration even at the double beta rate. The air juggle crossover stuff though does see noticeable deterioration, but still couldn't beat just having 350 undizzy in MDE.

But then I guess it only becomes a problem when you try to 100% a solo with a duo or trio.
 
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Shnarfl said:
Welcome boys welcome all to the Wheel of Mike Z, where dreams come true and people complain about it.

What will our lord and savior begrudgingly do? Spin the wheel and find out!

GI731pr.gif

Call everyone stupid or nerf Painwheel everytime. Yes, nerf a character that is probably the least played anyway. Like, nobody plays PW. But yeah all of these apply. Most truthful picture every created.
 
123stw said:
Also on a side note, quick reset did get nerfed. That 1 frame opening between that throw or overhead just isn't enough for any meaningful deterioration even at the double beta rate. The air juggle crossover stuff though does see noticeable deterioration, but still couldn't beat just having 350 undizzy in MDE.

But then I guess it only becomes a problem when you try to 100% a solo with a duo or trio.
If you do a frame-perfect reset at full Drama, the amount you get to combo the opponent is identical between the Beta and MDE. Please describe how you believe this is a nerf.
 
Broken Loose said:
If you do a frame-perfect reset at full Drama, the amount you get to combo the opponent is identical between the Beta and MDE. Please describe how you believe this is a nerf.
Why would you even compare "full drama" in both versions as if they are the same thing? If I reset at 240 at MDE I still got another 110 to work with.

You don't necessary have to take undizzy to the end before resetting, but you will probably wait til a bit past stage 5 before resetting to take full advantage of the damage scaling. Resetting before you get 3k-4k damage is just not worth the gamble.
 
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123stw said:
Why would you even compare "full drama" in both versions as if they are the same thing? If I reset at 240 at MDE I still got another 110 to work with.
And if you successfully reset at 100 twice you will be doing more damage than resetting at 100 once. You can still do damaging combos, you just lose a small bit of the end. IsaVulpes has already made a big thread explaining this in detail.

In MDE you could do long combo->reset->long combo and get a kill with Undizzy near the cap, you could still technically do short combo->reset->short combo->reset->short combo->reset for a kill and have very little Undizzy, but there was physically no point when you could go for the former option and get a considerably safer kill, wait 1 or 2 seconds for the counter to reduce, then go in and repeat the long combo -> reset -> long combo.

This new patch reduces the Undizzy cap, you can do a long combo but not into a reset unless you plan on hitting the limit (which, because of the Undizzy meter, actually has the potential to be a viable choice now for a wider range of players), or you can go for the less safe option but your damage output will be considerably faster than the other option.

I maaayy also be in Isa's boat on this being too kind, but I have enjoyed the matches I've managed to play in Beta more than those I play in the main version, so this current version is fine as far as finding a middle ground between the 2 halves of the community goes. Even if people do find combos with ridiculous damage (outside of using Big Band), things that have been produced so far have been considerably faster which increases the pace of the game and reduces the time spent watching combo videos in matches, so in my eyes this change brings nothing but advantages to the table.
 
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DARKNESSxEAGLE said:
And if you successfully reset at 100 twice you will be doing more damage than resetting at 100 once. You can still do damaging combos, you just lose a small bit of the end. IsaVulpes has already made a big thread explaining this in detail.

In MDE you could do long combo->reset->long combo and get a kill with Undizzy near the cap, you could still technically do short combo->reset->short combo->reset->short combo->reset for a kill and have very little Undizzy, but there was physically no point when you could go for the former option and get a considerably safer kill, wait 1 or 2 seconds for the counter to reduce, then go in and repeat the long combo -> reset -> long combo.

This new patch reduces the Undizzy cap, you can do a long combo but not into a reset unless you plan on hitting the limit (which, because of the Undizzy meter, actually has the potential to be a viable choice now for a wider range of players), or you can go for the less safe option but your damage output will be considerably faster than the other option.

I maaayy also be in Isa's boat on this being too kind, but I have enjoyed the matches I've managed to play in Beta more than those I play in the main version, so this current version is fine as far as finding a middle ground between the 2 halves of the community goes. Even if people do find combos with ridiculous damage (outside of using Big Band), things that have been produced so far have been considerably faster which increases the pace of the game and reduces the time spent watching combo videos in matches, so in my eyes this change brings nothing but advantages to the table.
Like I said earlier, the problem is trying to 100% a solo with a duo or trio. In MDE duo can do it with 4 resets. But with Beta you are working really thin and probably need 5 or 6 resets.
 
1) If there are resets, it's not 100%.
2) Do hard/soft knock downs still reset undizzy?
3) If knock downs still reset undizzy, are we ignoring the option of knock down, call tracking assist (Bomber for example) OR position yourself so the opponent can't tech away (in the corner) and go for a mix-up there into death?

For three, I notice the only options being discussed are long combos into resets, or short combos into resets...what about long combo into wake-up pressure with lock-down assist into long combo? Or is it only a problem with the resets?
 
Knockdowns don't inherently reset dizzy, but ground teching does. So they can either try to escape with a tech or eat the hard knockdown and if they get hit it's a shorter combo.
 
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konkrete said:
Knockdowns don't inherently reset dizzy, but ground teching does. So they can either try to escape with a tech or eat the hard knockdown and if they get hit it's a shorter combo.

Well, there goes my plan to end every meter-less Bella combo with the j.hp burst bait. =(
 
123stw said:
Why would you even compare "full drama" in both versions as if they are the same thing? If I reset at 240 at MDE I still got another 110 to work with.

You don't necessary have to take undizzy to the end before resetting, but you will probably wait til a bit past stage 5 before resetting to take full advantage of the damage scaling. Resetting before you get 3k-4k damage is just not worth the gamble.

This just in - Decreasing the undizzy limit to give the game shorter combos also means shorter combos after a reset. Shocking, I know.
 
Jason said:
This just in - Decreasing the undizzy limit to give the game shorter combos also means shorter combos after a reset. Shocking, I know.
Exactly, deterioration doesn't really matter in quick overhead/throw resets, only in those juggling crossover ones. It doesn't "make resets more variable" as some claims.

In MDE You can kill with 2 neutral confirm, or 1 neutral confirm and 1 reset.

In Beta you can kill with 2 neutral confirm still, but need 2 resets.

This problem is multiplied when fighting characters higher ratio than your own, you just run out of undizzy bar eventually unless you start resetting before stage 5. If people don't reset before I don't see why they would start now. I suspect we will see a lot more burst bait instead.
 
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123stw said:
Exactly, deterioration doesn't really matter in quick overhead/throw resets, only in those juggling crossover ones. It doesn't "make resets more variable" as some claims.

In MDE You can kill with 2 neutral confirm, or 1 neutral confirm and 1 reset.

In Beta you can kill with 2 neutral confirm still, but need 2 resets.

This problem is multiplied when fighting characters higher ratio than your own, you just run out of undizzy bar eventually unless you start resetting before stage 5. If people don't reset before I don't see why they would start now. I suspect we will see a lot more burst bait instead.

People just need to get used to the new combo length.

TBH I was asking for shorter combos AND a damage boost, to keep combo damage the same while reducing length.

Ultimately that's not what we got but I'm still happy with the results.
 
This new patch still wont fix the 'problem' of not enough neutral game.

I think that undizzy should only decrease while actually in neutral (not blocking).
This will greatly increase neutral in the game !
 
PandaGirlBingo said:
This new patch still wont fix the 'problem' of not enough neutral game.

I think that undizzy should only decrease while actually in neutral (not blocking).
This will greatly increase neutral in the game !

It already does that.
 
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One of the things I always find funny in one of those not bothering to mention it ways is how soooo many people complain about how combos are to long... And then list the damage that a combo does as an example of the combo being to long, or being just right, or whatever.


Never even realizing that combo LENGTH is not combo damage, yet still using that argument to call other people idiots... (And combos to long)

I mean, the reasons for the combo shortening from mikes perspective and everyone else's perspective is because the combos are to long and are "only one player" even though resets can come up from anywhere.
But then, these people that use the combos are to long argument, funnily enough stick damage into their argument on the back end as the reason why combos are to long.

Which wouldn't be a problem except that those people used the combos are to long argument to get their ACTUAL AGENDA passed which is to lower damage. I find it highly disengenuous and very bait and switch:

In this corner we have combos are to long, and in this corner we have combos are to long to allow ips to not carry over from dhc and tag.


And back in this corner we have a combos do to much damage assist.

So what we basically have is people that hate longish combos, AND hate high damage, yet want to change sg into something that it really wasn't in the beginning and used the "combos are to long" argument in order to get their actual argument of "combos do to much damage" on the table and being talked about.

And then wonder why people such as myself who like longish combos, and higher damage overall, don't particularly like these changes. And yet they call us the whiners and the idiots when they can't even get damage and length right.


Ok



...

I'm through here. We either have liars and disengenuous people on one side or those people are to dumb to understand the difference between certain words in the English language...either way, these aren't the types of people to have any kind of thought out argument with.

And that very last paragraph is my rebuttal to any future rebuttals on this post, in case anyone couldn't read between the lines.
 
IPS is not fun anymore, at this point I'd prefer Hitstun deterioration.
 
Dime_x said:
And that very last paragraph is my rebuttal to any future rebuttals on this post, in case anyone couldn't read between the lines.
Well, you did put a lot of space between the lines, it shouldn't be that hard to see.
 
Dime_x said:
I'm through here. We either have liars and disengenuous people on one side or those people are to dumb to understand the difference between certain words in the English language.

This is the first time I've heard something this insulting coming from the Skullgirls community.

This is a discussion about game mechanics. Not a government conspiracy.
 
Dime_x said:
So what we basically have is people that hate longish combos, AND hate high damage, yet want to change sg into something that it really wasn't in the beginning
Why did you use "yet" rather than "thus" here? Are you too dumb to understand the difference between certain words in the English language?
 
I wasn't gonna post here again, but...
IsaVulpes said:
Why did you use "yet" rather than "thus" here?
Technically thus wouldn't really work in the sentence either. It could be rearranged to fit thus, but a better substitute may be "...hate high damage; they basically want..." or something. I'm not entirely sure how semi-colons work, but it should be something like that, right?

Also, fuck grammatical precision. We, periods, all up in, t,hi,s bitch.
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Why did you use "yet" rather than "thus" here? Are you too dumb to understand the difference between certain words in the English language?


Yet points to the irony of the position, whereas thus is descriptive of the irony of the position, and I didn't feel the need to describe it any further than I already had.

And besides that, the gist of the point isnt lost with either word. Using length to describe damage and vice versa does however confuse the point that people are trying to make since they can be mutually exclusive.

???
 
Dime_x said:
Yet points to the irony of the position, whereas thus is descriptive of the irony of the position, and I didn't feel the need to describe it any further than I already had.

And besides that, the gist of the point isnt lost with either word. Using length to describe damage and vice versa does however confuse the point that people are trying to make since they can be mutually exclusive.

???
Shouldest thou not upift thy ass from yonder supposition? Do'est though first need the prerequisite of first dislodging from thy penis?
 
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But I ain't on yo dick though...


.... Thinks someone has been going way to hard on the oldschool robinhood with all them men in tights.
 
I don't even know what I said to be honest. I just went "I wanna talk like shakesphere and say the words "penis" and "ass".
 
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Jason said:
This is the first time I've heard something this insulting coming from the Skullgirls community.

This is a discussion about game mechanics. Not a government conspiracy.

Lol, you're joking right?
 
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Zidiane said:
I don't even know what I said to be honest. I just went "I wanna talk like shakesphere and say the words "penis" and "ass".


:)

Haha

Ok that makes sense. I was all like "did this mofo just go all 'ol English on me" OH NO HE DIDNT!

"I better figure what the hell he means and find some snappy shit ass retort before they think my Gaelic is lacking"

(Even though Gaelic isn't old English.... As far as I know :)



Oh the internets, you make all of us of mice and men... Can can there be no war and peace?

(I also have no idea what that says... But it sounds vaguely smart and has 2 award winning novels in it)
 
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Someone doesn't know the difference between not responding to rebuttals and not responding to simple replies and questions.
 
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