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Possible new IPS

Vadsamoht said:
He's fixing issues with the Lobbies right now. IPS changes won't be for a fair while.
Oh, that's a relief (I think)
 
Sanoblaze said:
apparently when it comes to the 'fans', developer decisions and accessibility for new players are a bad thing.
Umm, the change isn't for new player accessibility and will likely do nothing for it.
 
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LOL new player accessibility...
 
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dekillsage said:
^ Me with my friend who wont play this game because of this happening like 3 times.
Chris G hadn't played since SDE and did fine. Just sayin'.

And yes, the Beta was updated but not for this. If it was for this the crying would be much more intense here.
 
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Mike_Z said:
This is equivalent in the current IPS to doing a chain, calling your assist, and then continuing with some attack that normally wouldn't link from the end of your previous chain...which you would never be able to use to start a chain anyway, but your next character might have used. So...no real change in either the solo/team dynamic or the getting-around-a-restriction bit?

Also, in that case it would count as linking off your whatever-normal-you-called-the-assist-after. (s.LP->s.MP + assist, s.LP = linking s.MP to s.LP from your character's perspective.)
I'm not sure I fully understand, are you saying assists are ignored and the previously used attack is considered the chain ender?
 
Sanoblaze said:
I can entirely agree to this statement. why is it the worst part of a fanbase has to also be the loudest?

Because people hate change and they love to tell you WHY they hate it.

As much as I hate it(people complaining, not the change), it's just one of those things you have to deal with the internet. I'd mention how we should all be mature but again...the internet.
 
Mike_Z said:
Chris G hadn't played since SDE and did fine. Just sayin'.

And yes, the Beta was updated but not for this. If it was for this the crying would be much more intense here.
I think they...we...(I at least) know better. I`ll bet you in the end more people like it than not. I mean so far I haven`t been disappointed with any changes...so why I went off the handle idk, but i think the thinking should come after the beta. I`m actually really curious now to see what this IPS stuff would do. But again like i said, whatever`s best for the community right now and the game I`m for. So hookitup. It took me a bit to get it, but in all actuality, people who`re here seem to...be here, so might as well have us use beta for something.
 
So I went through the thread and counted people's reactions (each person was only counted once). I didn't count people who didn't state their preference.
yes:
IIIII IIIII IIIII

wanna try it first:
IIIII IIIII IIII
no:
IIIII III

So for all the hate it's getting there are more than 2 people who are either neutral or in favour of the new IPS.
 
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FYI, assists are currently ignored by IPS the same way - doing a chain, calling an assist, then doing another chain acts as if you just did chain 1 then chain 2.
 
Mike_Z said:
It's very interesting hearing all the negativity, like I said, I would expect more people would be happy it's getting run by everyone instead of just put in and Deal With It.

One of my really talented friends from the VF scene and myself had a long discussion about this change. We both love the game, and he lives really close to you guys.

Resets are great. The neutral game and reset game is what I like about SG. It's the reason I call this game the 2d VF. (In fact, it's what got a friend of mine into the game who lives about a mile from you and he's loving it) We both view resets as a similar concept to nitaku in VF (though resets are stronger, nitaku tends to be forced 2-choice 50/50, resets can be in favor of the attacker more)

We even got into a discussion on how shorter combos can be more effectively psychologically. Sometimes big damage in a small time frame can scare folks in a way swag can't. Swag has its own psychological advantages as well, such as demoralizing your opponent by rubbing their face in a bad choice. That said, loops are boring- and this IPS change seems to take care of loops which is good.

What we both ended up agreeing was the real issue was combo damage making it where folks didn't have to play the forced choice game. My concern was that damaging low-meter combos would remain even without IPS.

I do think the folks who complain about folks wakeup supering every time will like this game, if they get better at the game. The solution to folks who do that is block on the reset, let them mash and waste a bar, then reset again, stop before they get a meter, then reset them into big damage. Don't see enough folks doing that. Once you do enough of that, if the opponent isn't a scrub they'll start respecting your offense more.

What I suspect will be a problem after the IPS change, and what I would do to "fix" those things

1) I expect folks will still come up with super-optimized max combos with damage close to now for the same resources. I suspect due to this, we're still going to need some sort of undizzy system- though it can be more limited.

2) I suspect this change is going to push things more towards chars that have safe DHCs (2 bars to get out of jail). Those might need adjustment. If combo damage is lower, safe reversals become more powerful.

3) Also, keepout assist game might become stronger- AKA what Chris G was doing. This might be solved by increasing lockout times when folks hit the assist. (thinking it should be 120f if the assist gets hit unarmored)
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Did you count Nuuance's first uninformed stupid "NO!!1"-reaction, or his later revision to "I guess I'll try it"?
I counted his first "No", changed it now
 
Alstein said:
1) I expect folks will still come up with super-optimized max combos with damage close to now for the same resources. I suspect due to this, we're still going to need some sort of undizzy system- though it can be more limited.

The reason for the experiment is not to reduce damage on combos, it's to make the combos less loopy.
 
IsaVulpes said:
More like the opposite, which is actually kind of the idea.
I get this...and at the same time
IsaVulpes said:
Did you count Nuuance's first uninformed stupid "NO!!1"-reaction, or his later revision to "I guess I'll try it"?
I definitely eat my words on this one. Usually I`m good at keeping things level even when other people get ridiculous but instead it was me :( sorry about that guys. And yeah I actually started at the VERY beginning and read every single post and...like Darkness said, honestly, majority of the people on this thread are liking the change (including myself now).

Even when I flipped out, I knew I was in the minority, but wasn`t sure. But it`s pretty clear that we need to try this and new IPS...character nerfs...buffs...whatever it may be. like I`ve been echoing after what I said, the golden link would be keeping creativity and depth, while making entry level for new players better. It IS intimidating to see 60 hit combos and have to memorize 3-4 different versions even if you do take it segment by segment. I`m super hype for Blazblue...but I`m finding I`m dreading the optimization part because I don`t have a firm hold on things. It may change...it may not, but the point of my rambling is I have to try it whether I`m looking forward to it or not...but I AM looking forward to it despite earlier crying.

--- --- --- ---
CONCLUSION
--- --- --- ---

Mike, only like 4/30 people weren`t feeling it, and I took back my stupidity, so that`s like -5 negative people now. Negative and negative cancel out, see? No exaggeration.
 
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Doesn't sound too bad, i would want to try it for a few month or at least a few weeks though.
 
Ok, so I tried messing around with the assumption that starters get tracked and can't be used as starters later, and enders get tracked and can't be enders later.

This seems to make looping more difficult. The closest I've got with bella is this version of a runstop loop combo

c.lk c.mp hp run stop
(c.mk) f+hp [battle butt]
(c.mp) [hk] run stop
(c.lk) c.mp [hp] run stop
(lp-lp) mk hk [dp+hp]

-different brackets to show starters/enders

I'm finding it pretty difficult to figure out a good approach to optimising combos with this system. Then again I had the same trouble when learning undizzy. One thing that does concern me is that it makes on-the-fly combo creation a little more difficult since you're tracking two things per chain, but undizzy has a similar issue beyond a certain length of combo.

I don't think it would cut combo damage that much, just messing around with bella I was getting 7-8k, so I imagine the potential to go higher is still there. So yeah, minimal effect on actual gameplay.
 
Age said:
Ok, so I tried messing around with the assumption that starters get tracked and can't be used as starters later, and enders get tracked and can't be enders later.

This seems to make looping more difficult. The closest I've got with bella is this version of a runstop loop combo

c.lk c.mp hp run stop
(c.mk) f+hp [battle butt]
(c.mp) [hk] run stop
(c.lk) c.mp [hp] run stop
(lp-lp) mk hk [dp+hp]

-different brackets to show starters/enders

I'm finding it pretty difficult to figure out a good approach to optimising combos with this system. Then again I had the same trouble when learning undizzy. One thing that does concern me is that it makes on-the-fly combo creation a little more difficult since you're tracking two things per chain, but undizzy has a similar issue beyond a certain length of combo.

I don't think it would cut combo damage that much, just messing around with bella I was getting 7-8k, so I imagine the potential to go higher is still there. So yeah, minimal effect on actual gameplay.

but i thought mike said (for now) that starters wont get tracked? errr oh nvm, not like it'd work in current game anyways ahah.
 
Yo what's that one Broken Tier shirt... you know that pretty godlike one..... oh yeah:


WhiteAdapt_grande.png
 
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As long there's a way to make everyone's normals balanced, I'm pretty open to this! Hope it works well during beta.
 
Is the IPS patch already in the beta, I saw it updated.

If it is, can you really test a beta if no one is playing it? This is why I wanted to wait for Big Band (to make folks try it)
 
Alstein said:
Is the IPS patch already in the beta, I saw it updated.

If it is, can you really test a beta if no one is playing it? This is why I wanted to wait for Big Band (to make folks try it)
That patch was for the lobbies.


Keep playing with recipe Mike. Everyone has an infinite endless Beta for a reason.

On the new IPS, for whatever reason, I was expecting something more drastic. Some of the reactions on the first 2 pages would make you think it was.
 
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I like it.

I'd love to see combos shortened/damage lowered per confirm.

SG has a super fun neutral game with a fair amount of depth that is almost entirely minimized once you get a single hit. Not to mention that I much prefer a reset heavy game.
 
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dekillsage said:
I thought the neutral game was updo/hornet bomber.

Pretty sure the average neutral game is chicken block a lot, mash Updo/Hornet Bomber and try to convert off of the assist. And even after this change, you'll still have most players doing max damage optimized combos over resets anyway, unless you completely neuter high damage combos. I doubt it's going to force more resets into the game.
 
Seems fun. I want to test it. Bisou.
 
Ok so here is my hypothetical scenario for if this game becomes reset based:

Opponent goes for a reset and I have 2 bars I will always reversal and if that fails Ill just DHC to cat heads to make it safe, advantage goes to me.

Opponent goes for a reset and I don't have 2 bars I block the fist few hits push block and go from there.

I would love it if the second option came up more frequently, I have no problem with any changes but I do have a problem with how resets work in this game and I feel like if the game becomes more reset based this issue will come up eventually.

Just wanted to put this out there to try and change the topic from the "this change sucks" argument.
 
Well, the first scenario- you burned 2 bars (though one can argue cat head DHC should be 2 bars instead of 1)

On the second scenario, you'll have to block the reset- in other words, you'll play SG.

Ultimately, if this doesn't drop the combo damage (I'm skeptical on that)- we're going to have the same issues we have now.
 
My point is that going for the reversal is more often times than not an low risk high reward situation. On the other hand going for the reset is a high risk high reward situation. The way I see it thats a bit unbalanced. Im not trying to say reversals need to be nerfed into the ground, Im trying to say there should be more risk in attempting a reversal.
 
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Errm...

yeah, this will sound stupid and awkward...

But if mike gives up on us because of this topic, could someone say him i'm sorry in name of all the stupid opinions in the thread? Don't want him to lose faith on the players. He's one of the only developers with such an amazing communication with te community, it'd be horrible if he stopped sharing his ideas with us and then shoving it down our throats like some (all?) of the other fighting game game developers.

I'm not a King of SG, not a mod, not a combo maker, not even a good player. But i do like this game, the community here in skullheart, the lab zero team and all of the love this game generates on the people that give it a chance, even if not directly related to the fights (loads of artists love SG too). So, if as a supporter and a fan my opinion can be of any relevance, please don't give up on us. There will always be stupidity, but there's always more to be seen beyond that.
 
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Winnie is correct, and it's already happening. Watch ducks most recent games and you will see him going for a lot of reversals... More than usual... Seemed like he was testing just how good they are.

Good players will abuse this shit, like I said. I don't know whether that is necessarily a bad thing as of yet, but... Doesn't look good when raw super is such a good option when followed by any kind of dhc... It's a vast departure for supers to be this strong in new school games, normals have been stronger than supers in a has variety kind of way, for a very long time.
 
DukeMagus said:
Errm...

yeah, this will sound stupid and awkward...

But if mike gives up on us because of this topic, could someone say him i'm sorry in name of all the stupid opinions in the thread? Don't want him to lose faith on the players. He's one of the only developers with such an amazing communication with te community, it'd be horrible if he stopped sharing his ideas with us and then shoving it down our throats like some (all?) of the other fighting game game developers.

I'm not a King of SG, not a mod, not a combo maker, not even a good player. But i do like this game, the community here in skullheart, the lab zero team and all of the love this game generates on the people that give it a chance, even if not directly related to the fights (loads of artists love SG too). So, if as a supporter and a fan my opinion can be of any relevance, please don't give up on us. There will always be stupidity, but there's always more to be seen beyond that.
Mike has a tougher skin than you think, and that's why we love him
 
Not saying that this is THE solution for dealing with mashed supers -> safe dhc, but what about snapping in characters with the safe dhc option? I still don't see snaps happening often outside of double snap combos, tbh.
 
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winnie said:
Opponent goes for a reset and I have 2 bars I will always reversal and if that fails Ill just DHC to cat heads to make it safe, advantage goes to me.

Opponent goes for a reset and I don't have 2 bars I block the fist few hits push block and go from there..
There are very few safe supers in the league of Double's catheads, this will simply propose another matchup advantage for Double. The very concept of snapping out a point character, particularly in a 2 man team, seems to be lost on people in matches involving Double, and as soon as she's out your safe DHC disappears and your best reversal option is the wagon, which either costs you one bar and no follow up or 2 bars to DHC into your next character, in which case you're 2 bars down and resets are a viable option for the opponent again.

In the case of other characters or teams without a safe DHC option, reversals can be baited. As soon as resets become a focal point of the game everyone will get better at pulling them off and countering them, so if you can think of a step by step way of countering one thing there is a step by step way to counter that. I thought this is what people liked about fighters in the first place, as it lets them focus on the mind games rather than who can pull the longest combo.
 
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