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Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

Is Double getting touched any more?
 
Liam said:
vial damage
Level 3 vial adding 5190 onto the end of a combo for trio Val in 3v1 is kinda nuts. I knew retail vial was strong against solos but I didn't know it was *that* strong.
 
I don't think Fukua players don't have to worry about using assists for their set ups now.

cLK cMP cHP x M Shadow, H Shadow..
sLP

>Drop into H Shadow
>Drop into cLK

You can choose to bait by just not attacking behind the H Shadow and you get pressure off the release if they don't reversal anyway.
Probably hard to reversal this if they recover mid air from sLP.

Then you just loop it forever midscreen.

A new type of M Shadow vortex returns.
Really easy.

If Eliza could hold Horus frozen in time above the opponent and then go low...
 
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Surely starting a new combo with H shadow (or c.LK into immediate H shadow hit) means you can't loop the setup again because it won't let you summon another H shadow for the rest of the combo? Aside from that, it sounds like a strong setup.
 
Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
You could do an L Shadow cross over set up while setting it up easily with your assist on the second hit instead.

So first hit would be the M Shadow > H Shadow reset, it hits, then you do a L Shadow cross over 50/50, that hits, then you can do another M Shadow > H Shadow mix up and just alternate those.
 
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It makes sense for poison damage to actually follow ratio like everything else in the game, but... those numbers, yikes.
 
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Well I found a use for the beowulf change
 
Those purple vial changes have me feeling some type of way. I can understand if the ratio from retail was reduced, but yikes.

Am happy for solo vals tho, they kinda needed it.
 
Can we toy with Beowulf getting a hard knockdown if he lands a wolf press slam onto his chair but doesn't gain hype for it? It would essentially be giving up potential resources for the HKD.
 
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I want to see people use the changes in a way that isn't gimmicky with assists :( Like people were being creative with the blitzer change but mike didn't like the free mix ups off hype so that's gone, and short hop chair drop is also gone so that's sort of another fun combo tool I was playing with that isn't here anymore.

When the changes were first announced I didn't care about him doing less base damage because I was excited for the cool new tools to do fun things, but now the tools don't feel very fun or useful I don't think there's any character that's expected to get as many clean hits as Beowulf is in his current state.

Also why doesn't 3 Wulf Moon onto the chair build hype? That's a super onto the chair isn't it? ;)
 
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Liam said:
I don't think Fukua players don't have to worry about using assists for their set ups now.

cLK cMP cHP x M Shadow, H Shadow..
sLP

>Drop into H Shadow
>Drop into cLK
Wasn't this already doable before the new patch? Unless I'm reading it wrong, I was doing this already.

Still, a small win for Fukua being able to cancel M clone faster. But at the cost of damage on super.

Also, M shadow still has trouble grabbing bigger opponents (double, beo and big band specifically) in beta.
 
AlcoholicRobot said:
I want to see people use the changes in a way that isn't gimmicky with assists :(
That's pretty hard with how toned back he was. The fact that assists act independently of beowulf gives him a lot more options that he wouldn't normally have. This is primarily a team-based game so its natural for people to look for characters that synergy together.

Honestly though at this point I think I'd take retail beowulf over the current beta beowulf.
 
RemiKz said:
Can we toy with Beowulf getting a hard knockdown if he lands a wolf press slam onto his chair but doesn't gain hype for it? It would essentially be giving up potential resources for the HKD.

Robot and the gang and I tried to convince Mike to do something like that but failed, since he mentioned how easy it was just to put out your chair and just canis major onto it, which is true.
 
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MegamanDS said:
Wasn't this already doable before the new patch? Unless I'm reading it wrong, I was doing this already.

Still, a small win for Fukua being able to cancel M clone faster. But at the cost of damage on super. So yes, i believe you are reading it wrong.

Also, M shadow still has trouble grabbing bigger opponents (double, beo and big band specifically) in beta.

I highly doubt you could even do it because before you have to literally wait till they hit the ground to initiate a shadow. this is by herself.

This Small win is what makes her more fluid. This small win greatly improves her stuff midscreen. This small win is what allows more incorporation.
Sorry if i'm being repetitive but damage is not shit compared to having full access to utility and frankly calling it a small win is really undervaluing what has been changed.
 
Cadenza said:
I highly doubt you could even do it because before you have to literally wait till they hit the ground to initiate a shadow. this is by herself.

This Small win is what makes her more fluid. This small win greatly improves her stuff midscreen. This small win is what allows more incorporation.
Sorry if i'm being repetitive but damage is not shit compared to having full access to utility and frankly calling it a small win is really undervaluing what has been changed.
It is a small win. I'm not undervaluing it. I just tested it. The bounce is higher so it's easier to do now. But it was doable before. The reason why I call it small is the amount of nerfs and changes she went through, this is the first thing that's changed to help her. Yes, I agree. It's more fluid and m shadow just became slightly more useful for mixup potential. At this point, I'm happy with anything positive Fukua gets. So I'm happy with this.

I know you're probably the best Fukua twerk team player, but I still want to voice my opinion on her.

BTW, I'm not trying to be a dick. But now being able to do cr mp hp to m shadow, h shadow hold high low mixup is good. But before, you do the SAME EXACT combo without the m shadow. I know you (even though I haven't seen you play, just by your skill level) were doing cr. mp hp h shadow (hold) dash up cr. lk mp *release* high low.

I'll wait and see how you and a few other Fukuas incorporate this Big change.
 
^ basically what isa said, a lot of people thought retail beo was bad for some reason but imo he was lowkey at least top 5 on retail with the right assists, nowhere that I noticed did mike say that beo was getting BUFFED, he was getting REWORKED to be more interesting (similar to fukua, except i think the fukua changes were intended to be nerfs even though she didn't really get nerfed). I dont think he needed significant nerfs but I dont think the beo changes are significant nerfs either; they are tradeoffs for more tools, and this character on retail CERTAINLY did not need buffs.

on the topic of fukua, being able to prep another shadow during m shadow is probably too good, her setplay was already very strong idk if she needed this at all.
 
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MegamanDS said:
It is a small win. I'm not undervaluing it. I just tested it. The bounce is higher so it's easier to do now. But it was doable before. The reason why I call it small is the amount of nerfs and changes she went through, this is the first thing that's changed to help her. Yes, I agree. It's more fluid and m shadow just became slightly more useful for mixup potential. At this point, I'm happy with anything positive Fukua gets. So I'm happy with this.

I know you're probably the best Fukua twerk team player, but I still want to voice my opinion on her.

BTW, I'm not trying to be a dick. But now being able to do cr mp hp to m shadow, h shadow hold high low mixup is good. But before, you do the SAME EXACT combo without the m shadow. I know you (even though I haven't seen you play, just by your skill level) were doing cr. mp hp h shadow (hold) dash up cr. lk mp *release* high low.

I'll wait and see how you and a few other Fukuas incorporate this Big change.
T_T

Just cause they're doable doesn't mean they were.......easily accessible. that's all i have to say on the matter.
 
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Buffs or nerfs doesn't particularly matter when saying that I'd pick retail Beowulf at this point just because he's more enjoyable to play. This new Beo just doesn't feel as FUN because I feel like if I don't want to play a specific way he's balanced around I'm punished for it?

I realize that I can't treat him like the same character because he isn't anymore, but being told "You need this resource to do this, this super is worthless without that resource, you can't build it like this anymore, you can't use it and also build it without a gimmick" ect ect doesn't feel fun to play, it feels like Beowulf is being made to play a specific way and I still don't really understand what it is that's expected of me to enjoy the new mechanics. I don't feel like I'm making fun new personal combos like I did with old Beowulf, I feel like I'm just doing what I'm expected to do because its the only option I have to not fall behind.

I don't balance games so I'm sure all these restrictions are important, and I'm just speaking from my own personal feelings while playing but I'm making this post under the idea of "Is this fun or not". Maybe I'll get a feel for it as I try it more? Maybe Beo just isn't the character for me anymore? I know I can't have a character made around what I personally want.
 
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Cadenza said:
T_T

Just cause they're doable doesn't mean they were.......easily accessible. that's all i have to say on the matter.
I respect your opinion and I hope you don't drop Fukua
 
Rabbleflaggers said:
Robot and the gang and I tried to convince Mike to do something like that but failed, since he mentioned how easy it was just to put out your chair and just canis major onto it, which is true.
It's different now because of the recent change. You would only get the hkd on chair IF you have no hype.

Sent from my SM-G386W using Tapatalk
 
How is Beowulf supposed to maintain pressure midscreen? In the corner regular chair dance allows you to tech chase very easily, which is cool and all, but midscreen none of the no hype enders actually give really great oki. I guess it's cool that any spike gives you at least one hype but maintaining pressure with no hype midscreen, especially with no assist to hook you up with post finisher stuff feels really really wack. Maybe make the f+P finisher not throw the opponent super far so you can get some sort of tech chase? That one feels like it has no use at the moment.

I always thought the issue with EX finisher -> finisher + assist -> built hype for another EX finisher was the finisher + assist, so maybe look at that instead of EX finisher not letting you build more hype normally?

For what it's worth I think not getting hard knockdown without hype is ok, but only if meterless finishers give some kind of oki midscreen.

At the moment Beowulf feels like HOS from GG but if you couldn't do lv2 AC FRC continue combos from like confirm to lv2 blockhead buster, which feels bad to play.
 
Rabbleflaggers said:
Robot and the gang and I tried to convince Mike to do something like that but failed, since he mentioned how easy it was just to put out your chair and just canis major onto it, which is true.
It's not hard to do but you are giving up potential resources as a trade off. That seems ok to me considering he got a hard knockdown for free before.
IsaVulpes said:
Did you think he was going to get buffed?
Not buffed, but not really nerfed either. I was just expressing that I prefer retail beowulf.
 
You could also do c.hp into m chair toss and then taunt. You won't end with chair though and it is unsafe without otg.
 
Something just feels awkward about wanting to get a hit, and then throwing that hit away to build a resource and throw them full screen, getting a hit in sg is death for some characters like double in a lot of situations so it feels weird being expected to go back to full neutral so much.
 
havick9 said:
Wallbounces are cool

32 frames is enough time for a tech chase I think

I mean this combo in particular is lights only and wall bounces with tech are significantly less + against heavier characters. I like the concept and the combo itself is pretty neat to look at, Hope to see some tech that affects higher weight characters soon from people (including myself).
 
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Regular slam is +35 or more in the corner after otg is burned and due to the way that Beowulf throws the opponent, it makes a very decent way to setup a tech chase in the corner and getting a level of hype without giving up a lot.

The M chair into taunt does not vary between weights, so that might be something to do in the corner.
 
I'm liking the Beowulf changes so far. Losing free oki was kind of a bummer but kind of deserved, in retrospect getting it off nearly any hit was stupid. Hype doesn't seem very hard to get either, I think some people are overblowing it when you can go for assist + taunt at fullscreen and wham you have 3 hype, or play it safe and build it with s.LP. His damage is still good, down j.HK can dodge some reversals and double as a overhead that you can confirm off, and also gives him some funky midscreen crossups and corner overhead resets. Finally the ability to combo off chairless j.HP is freaking AWESOME.
 
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Chair jump isn't an overhead. What I think makes it so good is how little recovery it has, how he can still call assists, and the fact that it is a projectile with a nice lengthy hit stun that makes it pretty safe.
 
j2HK isn't an overhead? even when you dash 2HK?

Cause someone had a vid on here with it being like a 1/3 screen ranged overhead.
 
To be completely honest, I don't understand why Beo's 2j.HK isn't an overhead anymore. I'll agree that it was kinda dumb out of a hop dash, but now that you can't even let the chair go during his dash, I don't see why its overhead property was taken away.
 
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Fuego said:
To be completely honest, I don't understand why Beo's 2j.HK isn't an overhead anymore. I'll agree that it was kinda dumb out of a hop dash, but now that you can't even let the chair go during his dash, I don't see why its overhead property was taken away.
Most jumping projectiles in the game aren't overheads. Robo j.HP and air beams, Peacock j.MK and avery (from j.HK) etc
 
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Oh damn, that sucks, but it's still a good tool overall
 
Mr Peck said:
Most jumping projectiles in the game aren't overheads. Robo j.HP and air beams, Peacock j.MK and avery (from j.HK) etc
Yeah but Beowulf gets one chance for it is why I think it should be better than most. Considering it has a very predictable range without the short hop potential I also felt like removing the overhead was a little much, it feels like just another combo tool now rather than anything I'd want to use in neutral since even if its safe on block I'm very unlikely to get my chair back but that might just be me.

I feel like removing the dash option OR removing the overhead was good, but both seems like overkill a bit on one of the few new tools I wanted to play around with.
 
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Oh so it was made not an overhead recently. ok
 
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