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Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

MegamanDS said:
- random super from full screen is too random strong and almost unpunishable (with no meter) though this has been day 1 robo. I know Wing expresses this concern to me everytime I hit him with it and I giggle on the inside but agree at the same time.
Punishable by the entire cast, with most netting a combo.


Fukua's is H Drill x BFF
Parasouls is H Napalm Guy x Silent Scope
Robo's is just dash forward cLK, unless her dash speed nerf removed this.

So that's your characters out of the way at least.
1 bar attempt for 1 bar punish, and a bunch don't require meter at all.
Wing knows Gregor works.
 
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Adding 43 frames of recovery to M Egret on top of nerfing the amount of meter it builds kinda seems unnecessary. Why not just one or the other? Preferably the less meter. It doesn't just hurt M Egret but also L/H as well since it feels like he is just there for an eternity now. If it were to go back to the way it was last patch and then it builds less meter that would be fine imo.
 
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a suggested trade-off for Robo I think is make full screen Lazer supers (Except Lv5 for cause its a Lv5 reason). I feel this is because it feels weird that I can press forward for 1 second and a Robo can react with a free beam Super that has too much Time Freeze that has a travel animation that you can't block. So I think that unless you get hit by say an assists or RAM or L/M/H Lazer you should be able to block a full screen beam super (feels weird animation wise since with Peacock's Argus the first part's lazer is instant so that makes sense but with Robo's Beams you can see the travel time of them) The trade off could be a buff to her rushdown or something, I'd be fine if she got dj overhead back for it. Those this post may be a bit biased since I often play sets with a friend who plays a annoying Zoning Robo proudly.
 
are characters supposed to be invulnerable after bursting beam?




Edit: not shown here but pea can press anything she wants falling? Not sure if I just missed something years ago when this was discussed...
 
I'm late to Robo changes. Does the new 11 frame s.MP mean that (in the corner] air beam restand > s.MP no longer works? I understand that if you don't restand the opponent you are +21 but restand beam is only +12 I think. My knowledge about reduced landing lag is zero but I assume it takes at least one frame to touch the ground after beam.

Time to remake corner combos if that's the case.

BigEffinDud said:
are characters supposed to be invulnerable after bursting beam?

Yes.
 
never mind about the training mode thing. I forgot there's a way to set it up so they do not attack after pressing select.
 
Burpinator said:
feel this is because it feels weird that I can press forward for 1 second and a Robo can react with a free beam Super that has too much Time Freeze
Keep in mind that laser supers have a ton of startup that warrant them being unblockable post super flash if you aren't already blocking.
 
BigEffinDud said:
are characters supposed to be invulnerable after bursting beam?




Edit: not shown here but pea can press anything she wants falling? Not sure if I just missed something years ago when this was discussed...
Yes, you are bursting with a projectile. That is supposed to happen
 
Burpinator said:
a suggested trade-off for Robo I think is make full screen Lazer supers (Except Lv5 for cause its a Lv5 reason). I feel this is because it feels weird that I can press forward for 1 second and a Robo can react with a free beam Super that has too much Time Freeze that has a travel animation that you can't block.
If Robo reacts to you pressing forward for a split second then you can react to the start up of Cannon which is 33F.
Cannon is already risky to use in neutral and usually you need to safe DHC out if it's blocked, if it was post flash unblockable that would take away all of its use in neutral besides hitting assists.
The chip is only 990 which is 40 more than Eliza's Spiral.
 
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I thought I would come here and say I don't like s.mp and the rest of Robo's ground normal changes... but I really don't mind them. The block string I like to go for when I need it is c.lk > s.mp and make my opponent guess if anything else is coming or get out with jumpback j.hp > anything. You can still do that. Not as good of before, but it's okay.

The only thing I really don't like conceptually speaking is beams not doing extra damage on counterhit. I feel like I deserve that much of a reward if my opponent tries something and gets beamed. I don't have much more to say about it. Her beam damage has been tweaked to the point where it isn't retarded as it was in the early stages of this beta phase and this one change feels kinda overkill... But that's all.

Maybe I'm just that one guy that is really happy with Robo changes overall and I'm sorry about my fellow robot-ers, but I've opened the main game and she feels awful to me the way she was. We good boys.
 
Liam said:
If Robo reacts to you pressing forward for a split second then you can react to the start up of Cannon which is 33F.
Cannon is already risky to use in neutral and usually you need to safe DHC out if it's blocked, if it was post flash unblockable that would take away all of its use in neutral besides hitting assists.
The chip is only 990 which is 40 more than Eliza's Spiral.

But where it feels unfair to me is if at Fullscreen against Peacock I press just forward, see the super flash of Argus and jerk the D-Pad Back to block it works. But against Robo in the same situation it doesn't. I know I can punish it if it's blocked and its fair that if I press any normal it can punish me. Its the fact that pressing forward for that split second gets me hit against Robo and not Peacock that bugs me. If the beam was used at me at half screen, 3/4's screen or closer or whatever thats fine. Its from the complete full screen "I can't block if I press forward then jerk back to block when super flash happens.". With the video you posted that was all just how you punish after block or for pbgc. What are the options for punishing Beam Super at fullscreen during/after super flash that isn't blocking/if you pressed forward for a second. (Other then just parry with BB)?
 
Burpinator said:
But where it feels unfair to me is if at Fullscreen against Peacock I press just forward, see the super flash of Argus and jerk the D-Pad Back to block it works. But against Robo in the same situation it doesn't.
You can't block Cat Scratch Fever / SSJ / Death Crawl / Dynamo post flash, but you can block Gigantic Arm and BFF post flash.

You can block Feral Edge, Gregor, Scalpels post flash (and counter super), but you can't block or counter super Thresher post flash.

You can jump Daisy pusher post flash, but you can't jump post flash vs Showstopper.

You can block SSJ post flash if Big Band has Undizzy when he does it, like most level 1's, but you can't block level 3's post flash if they have Undizzy.

There's a bunch of exceptions and if you want to change something about Robo-Fortune and turn her cool neutral Cannon tool into nothing more than a combo ender or 990 chip tool, I'd prefer if you had a better reason than "It doesn't work like that for the other thing."
Burpinator said:
With the video you posted that was all just how you punish after block or for pbgc. What are the options for punishing Beam Super at fullscreen during/after super flash?
From the super flash, opponent enters hitstop until the first active frame, so you can't input anything. (Like almost every other level 1)
You can trade with it if you had a button out already because Cannon is not invincible on first active frame, but besides that you don't punish it immediately after the super flash if that's what you mean?

Like you don't see point blank Gregor get stuffed by counter super Dynamo, that's Vanilla and SDE.
 
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M egret is fine for the most part, however it staying on the screen while not doing anything is a bit of a let-down. Like others have said I would much rather see meter gain taken away then time on the screen increased to what it is now. However, I do sort of understand the flip-side. It's a very good tool now especially since it negates any projectile while Parasoul's behind it for a short while. This makes this an extremely good tool (especially versus certain moves) but, at the same time I do not think it would warrant the effective cooldown on all three "summons". At it's extreme I would rather see all meter gain removed and still have the recovery pre-patch than have tons of meter gain. Her main issue was dealing with stuff on the screen, not really getting meter...

Note: I'm on like 20 pain medications sorry if I'm not 100% in communicating what I have to say.


[Edit] While I'm here, I'll guess I'll ask this now. Is there a buffer window for inputs when returning as to Eliza as Sekhmet? Because going over Eliza things I was having a lot of trouble not only stick dashing but button dashing into a button, using a summon or other specials, etc after going back. If it's already there then I'm bad and I didn't notice. If not though I think it would be a nice QoL thing especially for some of her combos and situations where she has to go back and forth from Sekhmet. I'll probably give a better detailed explanation later when I can get on and check things but ideas.
 
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Question - if displaying the damage scaling in Training Mode, there are two choice:
- Display the CURRENT damage scaling of the opponent, which is NOT what I think people want. In other words it would look like 100 100 100 87.5...so after your third hit, it would display 87.5 which is not the damage scaling that applied to the previous hit.
- Display the damage scaling applied to the last hit. This seems to make more sense, but after the 3rd hit it would display 100, which is not the damage scaling that the 4th hit will receive.

Which would people prefer? (Displaying both is NOT possible, and probably more confusing.)

Lex said:
So, LK, HP still doesn't work after a counter super, was there no way to fix this?
Didn't see it mentioned, can fix it. ARE THERE OTHERS?
Lex said:
Speaking of Val's counter, this happens now
You wanna be more clear on what the problem is? It breaks armor now, the rest looks legit. That's 3 bars and a counter.
Lex said:
I wanted to bring this back up for discussion since when I first suggested it, everyone was talking about Beowulf hype stuff so it was kind of glossed over.
Granting more hitstun vs OTG is impossible to implement. More hitSTOP I could do....

@Robo
Yeah, the throw change sucks, I know. I'm also not super in favor of the extra scaling on s.HP, honestly, but it was worth a shot.
She is not going to get back DJ overheads. C'mon now. At the very most she is not getting back DJ MP. But I can see making things more plus on block in Det Mode.

BigEffinDud said:
are characters supposed to be invulnerable after bursting beam?
Characters get gold bursts by bursting off any projectile hit, no matter when or where. That's been true since day 1. The only change since the beginning is that they also get a gold burst off any hit once 90f has elapsed since any hit first allowed a burst.
I'm supposed to judge your comments on balance exactly the same after you demonstrate not knowing basics of the game, right? Yep.
 
Why does the scaling thing go back up to one hundred?
 
You wanna be more clear on what the problem is? It breaks armor now, the rest looks legit. That's 3 bars and a counter.
KTFS said:
Sorry if I'm missing something. What is wrong here?
You get another free chain at stage 2 if you counter someone. The combo in that video only works from the counter super and not from a normal HCH combo. If you look at the undizzy, it only starts building after the j.HP, H Bypass chain whereas in a normal combo it would start building after the cr.HP (also, you don't have to counter an armoured move for this to happen, it will happen if you counter a normal move as well).
EDIT: This happens in retail as well, I'm assuming that it isn't supposed to happen though or are you meant to get an extra chain?

But where it feels unfair to me is if at Fullscreen against Peacock I press just forward, see the super flash of Argus and jerk the D-Pad Back to block it works. But against Robo in the same situation it doesn't.
Compare the start up of Argus and Cannon, you'll notice that Argus starts up much faster. You aren't supposed to react to the super flash vs Cannon, you react to her very clear startup animation instead (33f is easily reactable).

ARE THERE OTHERS?
No other ones that I know of. Only other ground normals that chain into HP is cr.MP and cr.MK and they still work.
 
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I'd like to put out the idea of giving painwheel her pinion move back while she's installed.
Mainly because of the new buers you could possibly do some really neat stuff with it.
 
I thought they meant it would tell you how much that move is being scaled by so like 100 100 100 87.5 76.25 66 etc. Or am I wrong. That way if something scaled your combo by half it would be like 100, 100, 50, 43.75 etc.

I mean couldn't the game read how much that move was scaled on the hit itself or am I missing something.
 
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I'd very much like to see the scaling on the last hit in training mode.

@gllt I never really found that divekicc was a particularly defining feature of Squigly. That being said, I think M and L divekicc both have their own distinct uses. I'll use the M version to confirm off of air strings/fuzzy setups, and in pressure in general, while I use the L version for fast tick low/throw resets. Also, incidentally, if you launch, wait, then divekicc under certain lights, the M version will cross up more often than the L version. I don't really see myself divekiccing in neutral a lot because I have plenty of other good air options. The move is important, but I certainly don't think it needs to be changed.
 
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I'm enjoying all the fukua changes: I miss retail Mshadow for neutral usage, but I'm content with the options new shadow gives.

I haven't really had problems confirming off it with the lower bounce height, but if the actual good fukua players prefer it higher for certain things I wouldn't care. I dislike the clones going away if fukua blocks, but if they didn't and she could still hold clones it would be ridiculously broken. fukua is way more fun now so thats dope, I feel like I have to think about my options when I land a hit instead of just doing the easy mode vortex anywhere on screen
 
Mike_Z said:
- Display the damage scaling applied to the last hit. This seems to make more sense, but after the 3rd hit it would display 100, which is not the damage scaling that the 4th hit will receive.
This one. Isn't this kinda how the damage counter works anyway? It shows how much damage your combo did as of the last hit, and shows how much damage the last hit did. I think showing the last hit's scaling fits with the theme.

gold burst
Speaking of gold burst, could we add some sort of visual indication that the 90frames before you can gold burst has passed? Perhaps have the IPS hitsparks actually turn gold? Maybe use those same hitsparks on projectile hits during burstable combos?
Gonna be honest, when people started talking about Gold Burst initially I was completely lost, it took me a bit to realize people were using a term from another game. I can see why us using terms from other games to talk about invisible mechanics in our game might be confusing to someone
 
Zidiane said:
I can see why us using terms from other games to talk about invisible mechanics in our game might be confusing to someone
gold.png Blue.PNG

Safe vs Unsafe Burst.
It's called Gold burst because it's Gold I think?
 
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Liam said:
Safe vs Unsafe Burst.
It's called Gold burst because it's Gold I think?
Never even noticed those. They look just like a part of the burst animation. Are they supposed to be as obvious as IPS sparks?

My post was more targeted at the lack of advanced notification that projectiles and "after 90 frames" are safe to burst. There is no indication that those hits are different from normal hits. It's incredibly easy to miss that they are unique instances for people who haven't had someone explain it to them. Especially for the "after 90 frames passes" circumstance, without counting frames how do I know before I burst that an extended IPS chain has stopped being a constant burst bait?
 
Zidiane said:
Never even noticed those. They look just like a part of the burst animation. Are they supposed to be as obvious as IPS sparks?

My post was more targeted at the lack of advanced notification that projectiles and "after 90 frames" are safe to burst. There is no indication that those hits are different from normal hits. It's incredibly easy to miss that they are unique instances for people who haven't had someone explain it to them. Especially for the "after 90 frames passes" circumstance, without counting frames how do I know before I burst that an extended IPS chain has stopped being a constant burst bait?

There are people who didn't know there was a counterhit notification. There are people who don't know why it's called red bounce. It's fine.

Also doesn't the tutorial tell you that? haven't played the tut in a while.
 
Masqman said:
There are people who didn't know there was a counterhit notification. There are people who don't know why it's called red bounce. It's fine.

Also doesn't the tutorial tell you that? haven't played the tut in a while.
It's don't think it's in the tutorial. The tutorial explanation of ips was pretty brief iirc.

Sure, there will always be something that some people miss. The difference here is that I know that there's a 90f period between IPS and a safe burst, but I can't visually verify. If I want to intentionally gold burst in this way, my only choice is counting Mississippis.
 
Zidiane said:
Never even noticed those. They look just like a part of the burst animation. Are they supposed to be as obvious as IPS sparks?
There's a lot of subtle little details in this game, enough that I don't know if anyone would notice everything on their own. For the longest time I had no idea there were sparks to denote when you come out of hitstun.
Zidiane said:
My post was more targeted at the lack of advanced notification that projectiles and "after 90 frames" are safe to burst. There is no indication that those hits are different from normal hits. It's incredibly easy to miss that they are unique instances for people who haven't had someone explain it to them. Especially for the "after 90 frames passes" circumstance, without counting frames how do I know before I burst that an extended IPS chain has stopped being a constant burst bait?
Now this is a good point, even when you know it's there you still can't see it until after you burst and find out the hard way. Obviously you can recognize you just got hit by a projectile and that means you can definitely burst now, but it's not so easy to tell exactly when 90 frames have passed. Could the IPS sparks possibly change color to denote this?

Granted IDK how often the 90f rule comes up in practice to even need this, but on paper it seems like something that should have a clearer indicator for when it does. I guess that's why I don't even know how often it comes up, I can't tell.
 
By the way... is anyone else having trouble to confirm off landmine? It seems to require a microdash or something... I'm constantly missing it. I don't want to be a whiny kid and ask for something like "make landmine if it hits bounce the enemy slightly closer" yet. I feel like I'm messing something up.
 
noaa said:
By the way... is anyone else having trouble to confirm off landmine? It seems to require a microdash or something... I'm constantly missing it. I don't want to be a whiny kid and ask for something like "make landmine if it hits bounce the enemy slightly closer" yet. I feel like I'm messing something up.
Haven't experienced this issue.
Just to make sure, if get hit out of the call the opponent is invincible and you can't pick up so you'll want to go for positioning.
 
I'm also pro on some sort of visual indicator for the "being able to gold burst after 90f."

Also, yea, 33f of startup to laser super is definitely reactable. Did you want Argus to be unblockable post-flash? Not sure what your basis for an argument is.

Mike, the way you worded the 2nd option for Training to display scaling is that everything after the 3rd hit is displayed as "100"? Or that only the 4th hit is displayed as "100" and that everything after that is fine? If the latter, then yea, my vote is for the second option.
 
I'm just saying I thought it was put in there as a check for some dumb thing that a few characters had not like a thing you should intentionally be trying to use/time out. If that's not the case then sure but I think a visual indicator for something like that would end up being another thing that no one notices.

I'm all for a clearer explanation in the tutorial, however. I just think something like that would be too much work for something that barely comes up enough to matter. I can really only think of 1 (???) case where something like that would apply but I can't even make it string so.

My question is why should there be an indicator as to when something is or is not a bait? Would that not defeat the purpose of burst baiting?
 
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Also echoing the others on some sort of way to tell when a burst is safe. (Or at least inform the player that it's possible to get a safe burst.) Until now, I didn't know bursts could be safe at all, which made me feel like IPS generally worked more to the opponent's advantage than mine. It was massively frustrating not knowing this.
 
SugarDots said:
Or at least inform the player that it's possible to get a safe burst.)

Every burst has a possibility of being safe. It just needs to hit something, be triggered by a projectile, or after 90f (this one rarely actually matters). If you get baited into bursting in a situation where you think of those is going to occur but it didn't that's your fault. Not the game's fault.
 
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Liam said:
I'm apparently one of the few people who want to see her be a better zoner for the trade off of being worse up close.
I'd rather Robo be a 2nd zoner, personally. I was pretty disappointed to find out that Retail Robo was not that great of a zoner when she first came out, or I might have stuck with her.

Also, Robo buttons being +0 is fine.

I really liked the Egret M change when it was first brought in, including the meter build it got. It felt just right for the kind of move it is. Not sure if the meter gain would be too good since the main moves you would get big meter from would be argus, Beam super, and Para level 3.

Mike_Z said:
- Display the damage scaling applied to the last hit. This seems to make more sense, but after the 3rd hit it would display 100, which is not the damage scaling that the 4th hit will receive.
Definitely go with this one.
It goes in line with how everything else is displayed, which is "after the fact". "Your move did X damage", "Your move did Y Drama", "Your last move scaled to Z".
The game can't know how much of X or Y you did until you do the moves, so it only makes sense for the game to show Z at the same time as the others even if it can know this information ahead of the other two.
 
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When you use Hp in a button dash or an assist call with headless Fortune could it perhaps not activate the head? I would like to play Peacock with headless Fortune but the button layout I use for Peacock gets in the way of headless.
 
Lawnba said:
When you use Hp in a button dash or an assist call with headless Fortune could it perhaps not activate the head? I would like to play Peacock with headless Fortune but the button layout I use for Peacock gets in the way of headless.
I'm against this because it removes options and seems like it will mess with other things way too easily.
I don't know your button layout, but would you not be able to hold HP a bit longer after you dash to have the head not move?
 
worldjem said:
I'm against this because it removes options and seems like it will mess with other things way too easily.
I don't know your button layout, but would you not be able to hold HP a bit longer after you dash to have the head not move?
I'm curious to know what options it would be removing because I can't think of any?
 
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Mike_Z said:
Maybe, only in Det Mode. Maybe.
maybe if she doesn't get that, maybe she could get a techable knockdown on head RAM during det mode
it would be really easy to magnet those and it makes sense lorewise
 
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