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Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

Jason said:
I'm curious when is the ETA for this patch to be completed. I shelved SG for a while and I'm probably going to pick it back up when the patch launches.
Probably not for a while. The new intro animations are still being worked on, and all the console lobby stuff needs to be thoroughly tested and QA'd.
 
@joshb911 why do you want to be able to have shadows stick around while you're holding them in blockstun? Against stuff like spiral or copter you'd just be forcing yourself to take more chip from the assist + shadow hold. Being able to hold a shadow in blockstun seems worse to me because you aren't going to release it in blockstun, and against a lot of heavy assist-based lockdown you're just going to lose the shadow anyway for holding it too long. I might be looking at it wrong but it seems like it would hurt more than it'd help.

Also this is a little slow but I just want to throw in two cents that new sneeze is very good. It's the best of both worlds of the previous sneeze hitting way high up and original sneeze's ability to be used as a tool to move the head. Even with the head scaling damage change I still die a lot when both are hit, but it doesn't feel as bad as before and thats nice.
 
havick9 said:
you can't do that past 1 bar, you get meter for whiffing normals at >1 bar??? That's not anything new.
 
Masqman said:
you can't do that past 1 bar, you get meter for whiffing normals at >1 bar??? That's not anything new.
No but you can almost always have at least that 1 bar by "doing nothing"
 
Masqman said:
you can't do that past 1 bar, you get meter for whiffing normals at >1 bar??? That's not anything new.
did you really think I didn't know any of this? the whole point of that video was to prove the parts I quoted you are wrong
 
Masqman said:
you can't do that past 1 bar, you get meter for whiffing normals at <1 bar??? That's not anything new.
This works past one bar because it (run stop) is a special, not a normal.
 
joshb911 said:
wait peacock can't release item drop while in block stun?
She could never release item drop while in blockstun. In older versions of the game letting go of the button during blockstun would cause the item to fall as soon as she exited blockstun, but ever since the patch where Beowulf was added, releasing the button during blockstun means the item won't start falling until she's been out of blockstun for 20f. In both of these cases, if Peacock gets hit after letting go of the button, the item will disappear if it hasn't already started falling.
 
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Masqman said:
you can't do that past 1 bar, you get meter for whiffing normals at >1 bar??? That's not anything new.
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@Fizzxwizz I want to hold shadows and block so if the opponent throws an assist at me and decides to try to rush in I can release shadow after h drill so I can convert. If I have to block I have to go back to mid screen then summon it again ( it's annoying) then restart the whole thing and hope to god I don't have to block again. And to fix the issue of having the shadow stick around I think if you are in block stun and decide to let go of the button the shadow should just disappear so you don't take chip plus red health from shadow hold. It's just an idea but I think this could make playing her without an assist a little easier
 
joshb911 said:
I don't want her vortex removed either. I'm just confused why Fukua is being singled out when every character has a vortex that you have limited options of dealing with regardless of character you are doing it on. Granted Fukua did have the easiest vortex in the game. But let's be real here every character has a pretty easy vortex

joshb911 said:
I don't want Fukua to lose a shadow when she is forced to block. I think she should only lose a shadow if she blocks prior to release of shadow. I still think you should be able to hit a shadow but not cause it to disappear post release when Fukua blocks cause you're baiting a mash. I want to be rewarded for making a read not feel punished and lose my conversion options

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joshb911 said:
@Fizzxwizz I want to hold shadows and block so if the opponent throws an assist at me and decides to try to rush in I can release shadow after h drill so I can convert. If I have to block I have to go back to mid screen then summon it again ( it's annoying) then restart the whole thing and hope to god I don't have to block again. And to fix the issue of having the shadow stick around I think if you are in block stun and decide to let go of the button the shadow should just disappear so you don't take chip plus red health from shadow hold. It's just an idea but I think this could make playing her without an assist a little easier

lemme translate

I just really want to be able to combo break, make my DP safe on block and give a full combo on hit, and not have to go to midscreen to charge resources like every other character in the game that has to charge resources what's wrong with that?

You ask why people are "singling out" fukua's vortex, so I ask why are you singling out Fukua to be the only character in the game that you think should be able to reversal with no risk, get out of pressure for free, all at the cost of being left alone midscreen for half a second (which you think is "annoying" and you shouldn't have to do either I guess). Fukua already has two of, if not the two, best air normals in the game, as well as greatly improved pressure/setups/mixups with shadows. Why should she ALSO be given not only the best defense in the game, but tools on defense that no other character in the game has (peacock coming the closest, but she doesn't have half the other tools that fukua gets). The ONLY change to Fukua shadows when blocking that I think would be even REMOTELY reasonable would be them not going away if she blocks a projectile because then she doesnt lose her charge to stray fireballs but even then that might make the matchups vs characters like peacock/robo/para too difficult for them so idk.
 
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So to add to the bella hitbox inconsistencies, on painwheel bella is the only character you can't do c.hp into L nail and keep the otg, she just falls right through to the ground before it connects.
 
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Pickles said:
lemme translate

You ask why people are "singling out" fukua's vortex, so I ask why are you singling out Fukua to be the only character in the game that you think should be able to reversal with no risk, get out of pressure for free, all at the cost of being left alone midscreen for half a second (which you think is "annoying" and you shouldn't have to do either I guess). Fukua already has two of, if not the two, best air normals in the game, as well as greatly improved pressure/setups/mixups with shadows. Why should she ALSO be given not only the best defense in the game, but tools on defense that no other character in the game has (peacock coming the closest, but she doesn't have half the other tools that fukua gets). The ONLY change to Fukua shadows when blocking that I think would be even REMOTELY reasonable would be them not going away if she blocks a projectile because then she doesnt lose her charge to stray fireballs but even then that might make the matchups vs characters like peacock/robo/para too difficult for them so idk.

So I'll be more clear this time so there is no confusion in what I want

I'd rather j.lp have longer startup and have j.hk have longer startup then to have her lose shadows when blocking. I think j.lp and j.hk are the most braindead aspects of Fukua and would love for them to be altered in exchange for more utility with shadows or a buff to her damage. To me shadows are much more important to her neutral then running in and just pressing a button. Fukua has to spend a bar to make a reversal "pseudo safe" where other characters (Parasoul) can utilize a reversal + assist. It's also not half a second you can literally throw an assist, a fireball, or a long range normal to hit Fukua and negate the shadow summon which also goes away if you block. Also I specifically said that you can still hit the shadow so I'm not seeing how that makes matchups vs zonners any harder for them? I also said that fukua should not be able to use a shadow while in block stun to make it reasonable (give it a 20 frame window like peacock). If the point is to use shadows in neutral then how can I use it when every time I block I lose a shadow (um yeah just don't block great idea how do you deal with a zoner then? Um just run in and press a button fantastic). Like what is the point of having a neutral tool when you can't use it without an assist? Oh wait most characters that have these kinds of things also have a way to put you full screen or put you in a hard knockdown state without bar (val's vial load, parasouls tear toss, squiggly charge, beo hype, bands taunt, eliza taunt, robo head clone, peacock item drop, fortune head pressure). I'm not understanding how this is "breaking" Fukua besides Fukua could "Combo Break" before and she still can (h drill into fire ball super into dhc) or did you forget that this exists? I'm also interested to hear how other characters are punished for charging a resource mid screen cause last I checked no one else loses health to use a mechanic or loses a resource when they block.

I'm not happy with this new play style of Fukua and I'm sure many others are not happy with it. I've experimented for a month I've put in the time into training mode and no matter what I do I don't enjoy playing her and she feels unfinished. I don't want M shadow back I think that move is dumb so let me get that out of the way right now.
 
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joshb911 said:
Fukua has to spend a bar to make a reversal "pseudo safe" where other characters (Parasoul) can utilize a reversal + assist.

what's stopping Fukua from doing reversal + assist? H drill has a fairly long total animation I admit but I find it hard to believe that H drill + at least ONE of the common assists to do reversal + assist with doesn't work.

joshb911 said:
you can literally throw an assist, a fireball, or a long range normal to hit Fukua and negate the shadow summon which also goes away if you block.

as far as assists or long range normals, at any distance where those would reasonably hit you you shouldn't be charging shadows in neutral with no cover, no. Like I said projectiles not making it go away is the only change to held shadows I would think might be OK to try but it might make her too strong vs zoners when fukua can already throw fireballs at arcs to interrupt zoning as well as having BFF which is a very good tool vs chars like peacock (or at least it was before this beta idk anything about matchups with new peacock). Even if projectiles could hit the shadow Fukua would just have to go in front of the shadow to guarantee it goes through.

joshb911 said:
Like what is the point of having a neutral tool when you can't use it without an assist? Oh wait most characters that have these kinds of things also have a way to put you full screen or put you in a hard knockdown state without bar (val's vial load, parasouls tear toss, squiggly charge, beo hype, bands taunt, eliza taunt, robo head clone, peacock item drop, fortune head pressure).

of those, I would consider squig charge, robo head, para tears, and peacock item to be neutral tools. Band/beo/eliza taunts and val vials are hardly what i'd call aquiring resources for neutral, squigly can't get (or combo into, at least) a knockdown without charge or bar, and robo/peacock/para are zoners by design so of course they have tools to put the opponent further away. Fortune head pressure is an exception because it's literally half the character, shadows are not half of fukua. Fukua also has s.hk which gives you time to charge a shadow (though they get to tech) and you can easily charge shadows mid-combo (the majority of the tools these other characters have to get their knockdown or push the opponent fullscreen are going to be comboed into anyway)

joshb911 said:
I'm not understanding how this is "breaking" Fukua besides Fukua could "Combo Break" before and she still can (h drill into fire ball super into dhc) or did you forget that this exists?

This whole time you were talking about how fukua needs these changes to be good as a solo so why are you using h drill into super into dhc as a reason to say "she already has this"? If fukua has an assist to DHC into then basically none of your complaints apply anymore

joshb911 said:
I'm also interested to hear how other characters are punished for charging a resource mid screen cause last I checked no one else loses health to use a mechanic or loses a resource when they block.

Play one of the chars you mentioned before and do the thing you mentioned (vial load, squig charge, taunts etc) at midscreen with no assist and see if you don't get punished for it.

It's true that Fukua is now not as strong of an anchor as she used to be, though I certainly wouldn't say she's that bad, even without being able to charge a shadow whenever you want her buttons are very good and fireballs cover a lot of space. Her pressure game with shadows is much stronger and she has wild setups even without an assist, but yes I would agree that she is now stronger as a point/mid character. I wouldn't contest arguments that she plays differently now and I can see the side of things that these are very drastic changes to be happening in the last build of the game, but saying that fukua's shadows are useless at neutral just indicates that you haven't adapted to how her shadows are meant to be used in neutral now. You don't get to just unthinkingly throw them out alone, no.

That said I think "fukua cannot release shadows during blockstun and PROJECTILES do not cause her to lose a held shadow" might be a fair change to TRY seeing as how the two characters I would expect this change to hurt the most (peacock/robo) got a ton of buffs in the beta so they might still be able to deal with it.
 
Pickles said:
what's stopping Fukua from doing reversal + assist? H drill has a fairly long total animation I admit but I find it hard to believe that H drill + at least ONE of the common assists to do reversal + assist with doesn't work.
Fukua has punch priority on a macro. So no it is impossible to do this with Fukua
 
Lex said:
You can negative edge it. Sure, it's harder, but not impossible.
Just tried negative edging it, fireball always comes out with negative edge macro.
 
joshb911 said:
Just tried negative edging it, fireball always comes out with negative edge macro.
I got it to work just now. Here's a quote from Mike Z from when I was trying to figure out a combo for Valentine about getting the special that doesn't have priority + assist (original post from here: http://skullheart.com/index.php?threads/valentine-combo-thread.78/page-17#post-331603).
Worth noting since I guess people haven't really started using it(?) but if, say, QCT+P+K gives you the wrong special move, you can do P+K ~ QCT+release the appropriate button to negative-edge the correct special move. It's only a few frames slower, and much easier than double tapping the correct button. If you're skilled you can make it almost frame-perfect by doing like D,DF+P+K, F+release button. I learned this long ago for doing Potemkin 6H FRC to Pot Buster, you do 6H 632146+P+K+S ~ release P.
 
So just a couple things I have gripes with atm.
First, is there someway to make it that when you call assist, then start doing normals it doesn't seem to lock out that button for a bit? I had trouble doing s.hp → M lnl while calling peacock assist as I sometimes would get L lnl instead (old macro used to be lp+mk), so I changed my assist layout and now get it consistently, but now I have a corner combo with Peacock I have trouble doing because when I call assist into s.hk, the s.hk sometimes won't come out (my new assist macro is MP+hk) it's just a little annoying is all.

This may sound a little whiny but it's very annoying how during happy birthday combos, when I go into dynamo, the assist drops out more often than not, meaning if I want to DHC for more damage, I have to pretty much skip dynamo all together. The same goes with Peacock. Her optimal combos can't happy birthday (item drop only hits one character usually), so I tend to go into LP bang, lenny, for happy birthday conversions. But say I do stagger into lenny, then argus, quite often one of the characters will drop out. If it's the assist, they leave immediately, if it's the point it's not the worst as the assist still eats a lot of damage, but this has this cost me a lot of kills. I wonder if anything could be possibly done to alleviate this.
 
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Pickles said:
That said I think "fukua cannot release shadows during blockstun and PROJECTILES do not cause her to lose a held shadow" might be a fair change to TRY seeing as how the two characters I would expect this change to hurt the most (peacock/robo) got a ton of buffs in the beta so they might still be able to deal with it.

Still have the sneaking suspicion this will be game breaking
 
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MegamanDS said:
I read the opponent but they cancel to an armor move to avoid my BFF now since it's not 0 frames anymore. Wondering what other Fukuas think. Maybe armored supers shouldn't be broken but a regular armored move should? Compromise?
Nothing has changed to warrant this.
You can't cancel into armour at any time you couldn't already cancel into armour in retail.

No compromise to be made :S
 
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MegamanDS said:
Fair enough. Also just noticed Filia doesn't take damage when you hit her hair through the floor move. Never noticed that. I always thought she did unless beta?
Dan just read the patch notes and check in both versions and you can figure all this stuff out yourself.
Ringlet has always been a disjointed projectile.

It's a fireball.
 
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I'm gonna post this again because when I did last time, it got buried in a Fukua argument.
Why do some stuff work at the right side of the corner but not the left?

And why does Val's grab still pulls Big Band out of the corner for cross up?
 
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I honestly hate asking stuff from you guys espically since you aren't getting paid to update this game (correct me if I'm wrong) so sorry in advance. Here is my complaint, Why are Taunts worthless? Now I know what you're going to say, but besides BB,Peacock, and Robo the taunts are nothing worth noting. I know it's a lot to ask for, but wouldn't it be cool if you had to decide between pressure or doing a taunt after getting some distance between you and the enemy? These changes could be as minor as adding damage at the end of a super. Only reason why I've even mentioned this is because some taunts (mainly one) are really worth doing. Sorry if this request has been requested before or is just dumb :p
 
Pretty sure that this has been brought up before and the standard answer is that mooost of the cast was not balanced around taunts and so if their taunts were to do something then something else would have to be taken away from theyre current set rather than just adding stuff on top of what was already there. And most people would prob rather play the characters in their current state instead of a diff version for the sake of making their taunt do something
 
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Also, Beowulf, Eliza and Squigly all have taunts that do pretty big things. Eliza's gives Sekhmet the ability to drain health while hitting the opponent and go into lvl 1 without being whole with Eliza. Squigly's gives her access to a level 5 if she has a charge and Beowulf's gives him extra enders for his command grab supers as well as giving access to the penguin (the most important use) and he's going to get revamped to be even more hype centric.
 
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you can't dash under anybody after robo's mine anymore which isn't in the patch notes
weird because it really helped her zoning
 
bulldogmicro said:
I honestly hate asking stuff from you guys espically since you aren't getting paid to update this game (correct me if I'm wrong) so sorry in advance. Here is my complaint, Why are Taunts worthless? Now I know what you're going to say, but besides BB,Peacock, and Robo the taunts are nothing worth noting. I know it's a lot to ask for, but wouldn't it be cool if you had to decide between pressure or doing a taunt after getting some distance between you and the enemy? These changes could be as minor as adding damage at the end of a super. Only reason why I've even mentioned this is because some taunts (mainly one) are really worth doing. Sorry if this request has been requested before or is just dumb :p
Mike Z said on stream that because the original 8 were balanced around not having any taunt buffs, it would be hard to add non useless taunt effects to every character and keep it balanced so late in the game.
 
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bulldogmicro said:
Why are Taunts worthless?
Wish there was a way to test out useful taunts...
 
Is it possible. To make Squigly's Silver Cord not use up Serpent's Tail if used in a combo but does use it if it isn't? I think this would be an interesting thing to test for Squigly players who use that early Silver Cord in their combo but forgot that they spent the effort to charging Serpent's Tail making it pointless when used in combo (bit of a damage boost but eh). While this may incentivise people to charge Serpent's Tail and not use Appegio or Tremolo it could also mean a choice between using Appegio/Tremolo/Or any Dragon Breath Special to end with.

Example being
c.lk, c.mk, s.hpx2 xx Silver Cord Wouldn't use Serpent Tail charge

but raw Silver Cord would.
 
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