• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

Bug: Placing a napalm tear on top of a friendly robo fortune mine detonates the mine early. Happens in retail as well so I guess it isn't really beta updates discussion...
Bug?: Beowulf throw assist only accumulates up to 1 hype. I could see this being a design choice I guess
 
Last edited:
zeknife said:
Bug?: Beowulf throw assist only accumulates up to 1 hype. I could see this being a design choice I guess
Not a bug.

Reason : Beowulf is granted 1 hype off any finisher IF he has not spent hype in the combo and he has no hype.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: zeknife
I would like to propose a slight change to the animation timing of Fukua's armor grab. To make it a little more "reactable". Right now it is a 30f command grab so it should be fine but the way the animation looks is...smooth. It doesn't feel snappy enough like other grabs and moves in the game. So I'm proposing a slight change to the animation timing to make it a little more snappy similar to how Robo's dust got changed to make it more "reactable".
y5k0Sse.gif
OLD
qZgLkVa.gif
NEW
Basically, the first few couple frames are way slower and the few frames before the actual "throw" part are extremely sped up
 
Last edited:
IsaVulpes said:
What exactly is the purpose of making a 30f command grab easier to react to (aside from also making it uglier)?
well right now, just from watching people play her and from tournaments and stuff, it seems like people just stand there looking at it and then get hit for whatever reason. It's the old everyone can react to 14f overheads but can't avoid a 30f command grab thing. And terrible gif quality aside (I tried my best to demonstrate what I thought would be good). The weird gooeyness of the move differentiates itself from other command grabs and moves. For instance, Robo dust had a similar issue. Most command grabs or hit-grabs have a clear windup//break - hit//break which makes them snappy. Beo's wulf shoot, chairless HP, Lvl3. Bella's Mgr, (DDrop isn't really supposed to be reactable), Pommel horse. Big Bands L-Train. Even Fukua's level 5 seems more snappy than Armor grab. Moves in general in this game follow this rule a super majority of the time. Parasoul's command normal mixups as an example.

I don't want to ruin her gameplan or kill the character but in line with a lot of other changes, this seems like an apt change to make without removing or devastating the balance of the game. My issue is that it doesn't seem like the move is intended to be unreactable or hard to react to as it is well within the bound of reactable. Newer players get hit with it too but I've seen some good or top players sometimes just sit there and get hit with it raw. Now, she doesn't get too much off of it (in retail she got to go into vortex loops) but it still seems weird that this move that would seem to be a reactable move that's intended for mashers, or to armor through and punish supers with a command throw just grabs people.

All that being said though the move wouldn't be "more reactable" because f data wise it would stay the same. If you could react to thirty frames then you still won't. I believe, however, that this makes the move much more clear in what it's doing. Crappy gif making aside and everything. It would just be a bigger red dot in the reaction test than a smaller still red dot.
 
EDIT: My comment was rude. I take it back. But I agree with @Cadenza
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: softie
I thought it was a good idea because it would align itself with the rest of the game but okay.
 
While I'd like to try 150 undizzy, it is way too late for this and implementing this in the beta before it is finalised could taint perception of and draw attention away from other changes. It'd be cool if it was an alternate mode that you could set up in lobbies or offline versus (or just make the beta SG with 150ud once the final patch goes live). But yeah, too late for this change to be put in to SG.
 
  • Like
Reactions: softie
While I like the idea of experimenting I'm really unclear on how we have time for such a drastic change, Mike said he wanted to be done on Tuesday of this past week.
 
I only wish this had been proposed earlier because I want it pretty badly.

@Mike_Z If you're fine pushing the patch out even further than definitely let us try it.
 
That's asking people to relearn almost everything this late in the game's lifespan, throw out every single BnB and start over. Makes perfect sense for SG2 when everything's gonna be all new anyway, but I just can't get behind such a massive change to SG1 now. It's way too much too late.

With how the cast has been carefully balanced around their damage output and how many resets it typically takes to kill, couldn't this have some deeper repercussions as it'd likely nerf some characters harder than others? You would probably have to go back and rebalance practically the whole game around this, adjust the numbers on everything. I thought beta was supposed to be done very soon, but I would expect this to delay things much much longer to make sure you get it right. And I don't think you can have that be the final patch either, if you shake up the entire game this drastically I highly doubt it could be perfect on the first try. Would almost certainly have to give it time, see what it does to the meta, and then do another round of balancing in another year or so.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PME, Peterthegameguy, Pickles and 8 others
  • Like
Reactions: dead, Tomo009 and Shuffleupagus
I do not agree with trying this out as a real change for retail. If it was earlier to extensively test it out sure.

I am very happy with the current systems in place and rather have slight adjustments to characters to make them function properly tham do this.
 
missingno said:
That's asking people to relearn almost everything this late in the game's lifespan, throw out every single BnB and start over. Makes perfect sense for SG2 when everything's gonna be all new anyway, but I just can't get behind such a massive change to SG1 now. It's way too much too late.

With how the cast has been carefully balanced around their damage output and how many resets it typically takes to kill, couldn't this have some deeper repercussions as it'd likely nerf some characters harder than others? You would probably have to go back and rebalance practically the whole game around this, adjust the numbers on everything. I thought beta was supposed to be done very soon, but I would expect this to delay things much much longer to make sure you get it right. And I don't think you can have that be the final patch either, if you shake up the entire game this drastically I highly doubt it could be perfect on the first try. Would almost certainly have to give it time, see what it does to the meta, and then do another round of balancing in another year or so.

Agreed 100%
 
  • Like
Reactions: showuramen
I guess since I come from MvC2, I think combos NOW are already too short. I would like NOT to touch the game combo system at all.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Pickles and Icky
Honestly, that kind of suggestion is a non starter, anyways. You all already know that.
 
Last edited:
Shorter combos is something that I really think is an interesting idea... for a sequel. Changing something this huge at this point will probably do more harm than good.
 
Briefly coming out of my skullheart-hiding to say that I am 101% for the 150 undizzy idea.

- Just shorter combos
- Rapid resets more necessary
- Counterhits should matter even more right
- My favourite mixup that kinda defines the game for me, burst bait/air throw 50/50 should be stronger for the previous reason

Downsides

- Have to relearn optimal muscle memory combos in the short term (I doubt normal routes will change much, just shorten. I ad lib most of my combos anyway now, other than optimal starters)

I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff, but while this is obviously dividing people a lot, I personally see basically only positives for the long term.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dead and Shuffleupagus
I'm not an og marvel player. The current combo length pushes the edges of my tolerance, and if I didn't love so many other aspects about the game the combo length would ruin it for me. Combos being long just for the sake of being long does not appeal to me. Resets are the best part of skullgirls, and this would encourage them even more. I really want to try this in the beta.
 
As one of the few (only?) strong advocators for 350 undizzy back in the day I'm obviously not for 150 undizzy.

Like I said a few pages back, game feels perfect right now, I think 150 undizzy is waaayyy too big of a change for this late into the game.

Not my choice though and I'll get used to it either way
 
As much as I would want to try 150 Undizzy... I just think it's too late IMO.
 
Tomo009 said:
- My favourite mixup that kinda defines the game for me, burst bait/air throw 50/50 should be stronger for the previous reason

I don't believe there's no such placement for "i'm a 101%" either you're 100% or you're not!

The thing bolded here. I firmly do not think UD change will make it "stronger" at all. If you could provide insight on what exactly makes it stronger i would like to know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Icky
Cadenza said:
I don't believe there's no such placement for "i'm a 101%" either you're 100% or you're not!

The thing bolded here. I firmly do not think UD change will make it "stronger" at all. If you could provide insight on what exactly makes it stronger i would like to know.
like I said, refer to previous line. Coutnerhits increasing undizzy (assuming the numbers there stay the same) would now be a huge deal, the burst bait/ air throw 50/50 sets up for chunky hyper optimised counterhit combos.

Also getting to full undizzy in different ways would be a lot easier so it would be very very easy to set up.

It wouldn't be a massive deal but just one thing on the list of reasons I like the idea.

One other possible downside, depending how you look at it, is that characters that like to use lots of multi hits later in their combo for damage will be nerfed and characters with heavy hitting supers will be buffed (sorry Squigly)

EDIT: edited for various typos
 
Cadenza said:
The thing bolded here. I firmly do not think UD change will make it "stronger" at all. If you could provide insight on what exactly makes it stronger i would like to know.
I'm with Cadenza with this. I'd argue that it's stronger now since you get a higher damage counter hit combo off the burst bait as opposed to lower damage shorter combos with 150 undizzy.
 
it could be very ratio specific, but I'd think the damage difference between a practical starter combo at 150 undizzy to a hyper optimized 250 undizzy combo would be more than right now. I could be wrong on this point, I haven't tested it yet, it just makes sense in my head. I want to know this will be a thing before I go lab monster it
 
Tomo009 said:
it could be very ratio specific, but I'd think the damage difference between a practical starter combo at 150 undizzy to a hyper optimized 250 undizzy combo would be more than right now. I could be wrong on this point, I haven't tested it yet, it just makes sense in my head. I want to know this will be a thing before I go lab monster it
Wait what? Currently with a heavy counter hit you get a 340 undizzy combo. With 150 undizzy you'd get a 250 undizzy combo, which is 10 more undizzy than we currently have. You would basically just get a standard current combo.

With a current counter hit (340) you get 90 more undizzy to work (than a 250 counter hit) with which undoubtedly would lead to more damage.

I don't understand how burst baits would be stronger than they currently are? Maybe I'm just not thinking of this correctly.
 
150 to 250 as opposed to 240 to 340

Would need to run numbers, of course the actual damage now is higher, I mean the damage relative to a normal, practical combo at the set undizzy amount. So 150 to 250 in the possible change's case.
 
Tomo009 said:
Expo
So you mean the pay out for successfully achieving the burst bait.

throw is 50% scaled. It still doesn't really make it "stronger" especially in this particular game with the ability to alpha counter bursts at will(never truly agreed with).

Honestly the more you're explaining the more it seems that we will have to delay the game that was thought by the public to be near its end. I don't know about you, but i would like the game to be....done? Maybe its just me at this point and I've already said my bit so i'll shut up.
 
Well I've been mostly playing GG for the last ages so I haven't been getting super invested in the end state of SG.

It is definitely the main downside that lots of people will lose their optimised combos, but I don't think this change would turn out to be as extreme as some people are making out. It might be chaos for a couple weeks, but most BnBs will probably just shorten be a string or so. The counterhit combos will of course be drastically different, but we can lab monster those out easy enough.
 
I'm down for TRYING the change, but idk about keeping. We've already been through the whole "making combos shorter" with almost every version of SG. Forcing ppl to play more reset heavy maybe isn't such a great idea? There are ppl who like to do there combo get their damage > go back to neutral, etc. Kinda late to try out, but why not right?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Broseidon Rex
Hands off the undizzy bar pls!

I always found it neat how it felt like I would have to nearly fill up the ips circles in training mode in order to get 240 undizzy. I thought this was due to being 6 buttons and some how by extreme testing 240 was the perfect number. Due to this feeling, I think if this was a 4 button fighter, I'd be fine with it being 150 undizzy.
 
Cadenza said:
I don't know about you, but i would like the game to be....done? Maybe its just me at this point and I've already said my bit so i'll shut up.
The only time constraint is how much time mike is willing to put into further development, finishing development for the sake of being done isn't the important factor.

WingZero said:
There are ppl who like to do there combo get their damage > go back to neutral, etc.
Then they should play street fighter or I like marvel 3 or something. I think it's important to accentuate what makes a game unique. To me resets are the core of skullgirls, and what makes it so compelling. They add so much depth to player interaction, and I would like to see them given more frequency and weight.

I also don't think the change would be very extreme when it comes to damage because it would get rid of a bunch of heavily scaled hits on the end, and I don't think it would decrease the viability of cashing out your combos all that much. But we won't really know unless we test it.
 
Last edited:
Grangach said:
The only time constraint is how much time mike is willing to put into further development, finishing development for the sake of being done isn't the important factor.
Incorrect. Everything has a deadline. Welcome to the real world. This isn't just for the sake of being done. Don't quote me with some garbage like that when you just want to try shit out just to try shit out.

TO CLARIFY my stance on this.
I would be willing to TRY it out. what i am not okay with is:
Do you want to try 150 Undizzy in the Beta, as a potential real change?
Remember how superjumps got thrashed because mike suddenly just popped it in out of nowhere?

while we're at it. before I jet out of this conversation that i was planning to do till you quoted me.

Then they should play street fighter or I like marvel 3 or something. I think it's important to accentuate what makes a game unique. To me resets are the core of skullgirls, and what makes it so compelling. They add so much depth to player interaction, and I would like to see them given more frequency and weight.
Saying "they should play street fighter or something" doesn't do anything. Stop it.
I get your point and understand your point. I disagree changing a system that was accepted for 2+ years just because. it should've been done earlier. but you want to lengthen the development for your view of a perfect game while others felt the game was fine and just needed FINE tuning on some characters.

I don't even know where i'm going with this but we just agree to disagree. See ya!
 
I tested out a few combos with 150 and it wasn't too bad.

My concern is that a lot of things like overall health, individual damage on attacks, and even how fast the undizzy bar refreshes would need to be adjusted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shuffleupagus and Tomo009
In attempting to try out 150-ish undiz in training mode, I noticed that when you set the undizzy to any percentage, it adds extra undizzy whenever you touch the opponent on hit or on block.

10-50% = +5
60-70% = +4
80-90% = +3
100% = +2

Surely, this is a bug.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back