So, as Filia, if the blockstring is..
cLK cMK2 sHP2 Horus
The issue is that even if you chicken block then land cancel your hitstun, you're kind of far away, and closing distance becomes an issue.
Sometimes, I could get jLP or something, but it was kind of a pain and so was getting anything off it.
On the other hand, pushblocking her out in general was -really easy- if she was just autopiloting it all the way through. (But the dummy is not gonna stagger to attempt to catch me, either! Hi Eliza players. I hope you stagger things. Staggering is cool. Squigly does it.)
Another thing is, there's a noticeable gap between the second hit of sHP and Horus coming out. A lot of people hit buttons here and die. You're hitting the wrong buttons.
Stuff like a jab might hit her, but then you trade with Horus. I think throw will always lose, it's too slow. So your answer is: armor, invincible move (THAT WILL HIT HORUS ALSO SO THAT IT DEACTIVATES HIM OR THAT PUTS YOU OUT OF HIS RANGE OR INVULNs THROUGH HIS HIT, gregor is invuln, but it doesn't hit Horus, and it leaves Filia in a spot that horus will hit her after her invuln has run out sometimes [more, like usually..], causing a trade.)
I just did L and H updo and it slapped Eliza all up in the face and I got a gregor off it into a full combo. I just did it a lot, without fail.
This is not PBGC. This is: I blocked, oh it's the gap, Updo. It worked every time.
Updo was like ayy lmao, that gap is nice, lemme just gregor you now.
So if you can't chicken block it and punish because you're either bad at it or it puts you out of range for any good punish options with your character
If you can't PBGC (but this works really well against the above blockstring, if you PBGC so that you get PB but you DON'T push her out, you can PBGC and throw her between hits of sHP and weird stuff like that. Or just gregor. etc.)
Try exploiting the gap!
If the blockstring is..
cLK cMK2 Horus because I've seen this (and I've also done it) it's worth noting that the chicken block then land cancel tactic works GREAT here because you're pretty much right in her face for it instead of slightly out of range where sHP's hits would put you. Just downback the first two hits, then upback for free (yeah its free, come on. What low at this point? Unless she has Filia cMK assist or something. :^) and punish.
Eliza has good staggers, I'd be careful about pushblocking carelessly, but if you want to go back to neutral and she's autopiloting the hell out of the same string into sHP2 > Horus, you can pushblock her out pretty easily.. I'd say Peacock could just PB this string out and argus her as horus is coming out because it put me out of horus's range a lot too, meaning I could punish, I was just.. not in range to punish. But Argus is always in range. Heh.
As for -2 Spiral, we need to have a talk/make a thread about the difference between safe and pseudo-safe somewhere. But, in short, -2 is pseudo safe.
She can block. You can't really punish her without PBGCing or parrying if you're Big Band. However, she IS at a slight disadvantage, meaning you do get to act (only very silghtly) before her, she can't NECESSARILY keep pressing buttons for free, she's better off blocking. A lot of people continue pressure after pseudo-safe stuff anyways because people blocking the pseudo-safe stuff want to either just keep blocking or press really bad buttons.
I'm not advocating pressing buttons vs pseudo-safe stuff.. you will get blocked if she blocks. Though, you can start pressuring here.
If she presses even her fastest normal vs crouchers though, cLP..
Because her cLP started at a disadvantage of -2, make sense? Her cLP is 7 frames.
Parasoul cLP is 7 frames. Why does Parasoul cLP get a CH? Because Eliza is at a disadvantage after blocked LSpiral. Her cLP will always come out later if they both do their cLP as early as possible. This means Eliza can do this to herself, as well.
.....if she does DP after LSpiral, lmao SG players.
And now a special shout out to
@Stuff because I love him, hey man, fiber totally works if you -time it right- a few times I got sHK and of course I died for that. I didn't get any trades with HFiber though. I also ALWAYS got all the hits into a combo. If you get video of a trade, I'll lab it out with you and we'll actually figure this out, but..
I know you hate Horus.
EDIT: SINCE THIS IS AN ARGUMENT IN IRC AND IT'S RELEVANT
Hmpf = Isa
<Hmpf> safe means = not punishable, pseudosafe/safeish means = technically punishable but unlikely to happen (because only few moves, because tiny window, because distance)
<Hmpf> this is strictly established and also strictly pertains frames
Therefore, by his definition, if I'm not mistaken from our discussion, Eliza LSpiral is NOT pseudo safe, but simply safe, since there is no chance of truly punishing it (by standard means.) With that in mind, feel free to replace my use of 'pseudo safe' with 'safe but at a disadvantage' if you subscribe to his definition. I don't care either way, just kill horus already. And he also pointed out that other blockstrings would put Horus at a safe distance where something like HFiber could not exploit the gap and get all hits into a combo.
I take it for granted that you would all REALIZE that already because everything in this game has an answer but I'm constantly reminded that many of you won't realize this and just come running to post when you get hit by horus for doing fiber or whatever.
This post is meant to give you an idea of what can be done, not 'just do this every time' because there is often no such answer to problems in this game. There is no skeleton key to blowing up horus. But it is able to be dealt with.
Yes it's still really good, blah blah, ok, it's supposed to be. Now deal with it.
