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Skullgirls Encore Edition Tiers and Matchups Discussion Thread: The Revengeance

Dolfinh said:
This kind of looks like fighting Merkava from UNIEL.

Like a mini Merkava.

I do also think Robo's point value is pretty good but the footage you've linked doesn't really show that. He does do a good job of staying in and keeping pressure without his assists though.

this character has absolutely no baby shaking power

none zero zip nada
 
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still feeling like robo is going to be a lowkey pw. lots of tools but no one has really found out where and when to use them. some robo player might come around and prove everyone wrong but who knows how long that might take.
 
I am not going to spoonfeed anything else. The arguments have been made and debunked. Video proof of concept has been shown. Some concepts are later in the video some arent.
 
know what you could have done?

Give timestamps. Thats not spoonfeeding its actually cutting time to actually know the fuck you're talking about. I'm more annoyed you say debunked and concepts are later in the video but just give us the straight video of 48 minutes of shitty play and expect us to go through with our time which we can use for other things. Skullgirls or not. Instead we have to nitpick to find the exact concept that be shown. Funny enough i can look at poccola's fight against a robo and get more shit from that and it was a solo match
 
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I have no idea what you mean by shitty play. The fact that they are getting hit by assists? I've seen everyone getting hit by assists all the time, duck and taluda being 2 players whose tournie results are very dependent on hitting people with AA assists. So I guess their play is shit as well.

This isn't tippity top tier play. It's a new character. It's a proof of concept of what robo can do. As I said. If the video isn't up to "whatever" your unstated standards are, oh well. I've stated reasons why I think robo is good. Basically no one has said why she isn't good. The only thing I've heard is some matchup based stuff that has counters... Like run under her lasers... Ok. Anyways I've stated many reasons of why I think she's good and have had very few statements as to why I'm wrong.


I'm not going to argue the point any further if there is no actual argument being made besides "we don't like that video" which means nothing because anyone can say they don't like somehing for any reason and those reasons don't even need to make any sense or be correct.

So I'm done arguing. I don't care what you think at this point. And you don't care what I think either. Life goes on.
 
Beat Extend, Brass, Copter, LnL, Double Butt, Horace, Butcher's Blade, M Shadow, L Napalm Shot, Cremation, Updo.
 
This thread is so good every time I come here.

I too must hear the best assists in the game.

Are we going bog standard?
 
I think brass is a bit overrated outside of a peacock team. Even then L Beat Extend could be favored.

My top 5 in no particular order would be Beat Extend, LnL, M Clone, Butchers Blade, Robobeam.

EDIT: If we don't count robo then replace robobeam with updo.
 
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Brass is suuuuper overrated.

Its debatable if its TRULY beneficial for Peacock at this point imho.

LNL/Beat Extend/Horus/Copter/Butchers blade or Pillar are my personal top 5 not counting beam cuz r e t a i l.

L Bomber/Updo/whatever is a tier below.
 
I'm the dumb. For some reason, I thought Brass was sliding. It's just a KD. Brass is OK tier
 
alexpi said:
I'm the dumb. For some reason, I thought Brass was sliding. It's just a KD. Brass is OK tier
To be fair it was sliding in the beta at one point. It was a really good assist at the time but at this point yeah I would say just okay. I really only use it against other Peacocks at this point.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
Why is h drill considered for top tier? Curious

imo:

+ Good forward movement
+ Billion hits for covering enemy assist entry or beating armor
+ Invuln
+ Billion hits for confirming into combo
+ Great lockdown
+ Great damage at max scaling in your final chain

It just ends up being a perfect countercall for so many things, a great entry tool if you want to go in behind it, and it travels far enough on its own that if you don't want to follow it in, it's far enough away to protect with projectiles or long normals.

Only real downsides are the impacts on scaling as a starter (in a game with crazy resets anyways) and that it's somewhat easy to get above/around if you know it's coming and have the aerial mobility.

I know M-Clone is becoming really popular for neutral coverage and combo/reset utility, but the idea of going in behind Drill in solid but safe ways is just very straightforward and good.
 
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Brass is a bad assist that is pretty much guaranteed to get Big Band killed. Playing Sage helped me figure this out.
 
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I know this is a dumb question, but why is L Napalm Shot such a great assist?
 
AdenPhoenix said:
I know this is a dumb question, but why is L Napalm Shot such a great assist?
The tear it leaves behind only goes away if Parasoul gets hit. Your point character isn't Parasoul, so it'll always stick around until exploding (unless you call Parasoul again and she gets hit, I guess). The explosion can break your opponent's combos!
 
Thank you.
 
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i think Brass assist is okay for Robo since she can cover the space above BB with air lasers, and it allows her ample time to generate heads or launch heads. The big downside IMO to Brass is that BB is on screen for way too long. Overall, id still say light beat extend is way better as an overall assist for other characters

edit: words
 
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dMags said:
i think Brass assist is okay for Robo since she can cover the space above BB with air lasers, and it allows her ample time to generate heads or launch heads. The big downside IMO to Brass is that BB is on screen for way too long. Overall, id still say light beat extend is way better
Oh good point I forgot about this. I haven't played around with it that much but just from a theory fighter perspective Brass is the only assist that can both be used for zoning patterns and used as a thing that causes a lot of blockstun while you make heads. She can also protect it well with lasers. If you don't wanna play trio I think Robo/Brass is solid for a zoning focused Robo team. Also you can use both the Robo Ky colors
 
mcpeanuts said:
To be fair it was sliding in the beta at one point. It was a really good assist at the time but at this point yeah I would say just okay. I really only use it against other Peacocks at this point.
All sliding knockdowns cause regular knockdown when used as an assist as one of the Eliza* patch Filia nerfs.

*maybe it was the BB patch, it was the Beta cycle where Gregor got comboing removed for like 5 minutes
 
Hilary said:
imo:
+ Invuln

That thing hasn't has invulnerability for the longest time now as an assist.
 
RemiKz said:
That thing hasn't has invulnerability for the longest time now as an assist.

welp, that's what i get for talking on the internet

*explodes into cloud of bats and flies away*
 
Hi. Just curious on what peoples opinions are on Point Double. I've been trying it since those recent changes to gunshot and such. Using updo and varying eliza assist. I can't really decide on one so i usually just counterpick when it comes to her assist. Yes, I realize double is the worst character.
 
Broken Loose said:
All sliding knockdowns cause regular knockdown when used as an assist as one of the Eliza* patch Filia nerfs.

*maybe it was the BB patch, it was the Beta cycle where Gregor got comboing removed for like 5 minutes
It was Band patch, you can just look this stuff up! And yeah, surely it was a Filia nerf.

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Brass is underrated

Drill is ok, but I don't see why it would be toptier

H Beam is exceptional but on Robo.. and Robo doesn't look very good to me; bad japanese players or not

I don't think Pillar is better than Updo
Tearshot is better than either though, albeit a bit situational in its applications

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Not sure about Duo vs Trio, you can make points for either

Of note is that I don't think we can go by results - If Sage Sonic and Swift all played Trio, we would've likely had 3 Trios in Top3.
They are just better than the rest and happen to play Duo; not possible to read *this alone* as "Duos are stronger"
If Sonic hadn't kicked Bella for Liza we would've had 3 Bellas in Top3. That it's now "only" 2 doesn't make Bella any weaker.
(Same case for shit like "No Squigly in Top8, see I told you Squigly sucks!" and whatnot)

ClarenceMage's point of "More options will 'always' trump simple health/dmg advantages" is certainly a true one
Grapplers that deal high damage on hit and have high HP but sport a subpar neutral always look impossible to beat on game release; then slink down bit by bit until they end up in low-mid tier.
You could certainly make the case that this is the case for Duo vs Trio as well
.. But if we take an extreme example of Solo damage being 1600% and their HP being 150k, certainly nobody would argue that they are weaker than Trio, despite still having inferior neutral options!
Now of course, the Life/Damage disparity between Duo and Trio isn't that high, but you catch my drift - simply stating "Trio has more tools, so it's better than Duo" doesn't cut it, because in the end the question comes down to whether the Life/HP disparity is small enough that those extra options outweigh it

- It is much harder to build a truly synergistic Trio than it is to build a Duo team, and Duos are far less susceptible to "things going wrong".
If you look at Sage's team Fukua/Bella, that is a pretty simply Duo. Both chars help each other out and have neat DHCs into each other.
Now you want to improve that, and say "Ok, Bella gives pretty cool horizontal coverage, let's add a DP as well so we get some vertical cover" and you run it as Fukua/Filia/Bella
One could easily argue that the improved neutral from this is worth the loss in HP and Damage
.. But what if you now DHC or Tag or get Snapped, and sit on Filia/Fukua/Bella? Is the combination of Drill+LnL (which both cover exactly the same space) really worth the HP/Damage loss that you get compared to just running Filia/Fukua or Filia/Bella?
And this stays true for the utmost of teams you can think of to some degree. A Filia(Updo)/Parasoul(Tearshot) team may be even stronger (on paper) if you throw Fortune in front, but if the order gets messed up and you sit on Parasoul with two DP assists - was that really worth it?

- A a central game mechanic drastically favours Duos - Undizzy
2v3 doesn't really give a shit about Undizzy, land one hit into 70% of a combo, one reset, kill with 2 bars
3v2 landing a hit has to reset a lot and from very early on due to Ud decay, Throws not leading to much, etc

- An often brought up counterpoint is "But if a Duo gets Doublesnapped it's game over", which has the issues
1) Let's be honest, if a Trio gets Doublesnapped it's generally over as well;
2) If a Trio is caught in a HappyBirthday by a Duo, the Duo usually just gets to kill both characters and doesn't even need to snap

Which is stronger in the end.. I don't know

But I got a personal aversion to Duos (and Solos, for that matter) largely ignoring Undizzy
The low Undizzy limit + decay was implemented so the game is more interesting to watch and play and has a much better pacing;
Due to people being forced to ABC reset ABC reset ABC reset tbc, rather than just doing a full combo, 1 reset, and kill
Instead of people actually being forced to do that, they just switched to Duo and keep playing this way zzzzzzz
3v3 is so much more fun to watch/play than any other team size battle by an order of magnitude

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I forget where this discussion was, but Safe DHCs are really really good yeah

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#SquiglyWorstCharacter keeps cracking me up
 
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Barkynobiteme said:
Hi. Just curious on what peoples opinions are on Point Double. I've been trying it since those recent changes to gunshot and such. Using updo and varying eliza assist. I can't really decide on one so i usually just counterpick when it comes to her assist. Yes, I realize double is the worst character.
Main question I would have is "What do YOU think she does better on point than on 2nd?"
I can see her use for an assist easily, but you're giving up Catheads DHC / a meterbuild point / her assists, to gain - what exactly?
Have no problem imagining her working on point to whatever extend, but it sounds to me like you're giving up the things that make her good and I don't really know why
 
IsaVulpes said:
Main question I would have is "What do YOU think she does better on point than on 2nd?"
I can see her use for an assist easily, but you're giving up Catheads DHC / a meterbuild point / her assists, to gain - what exactly?
Have no problem imagining her working on point to whatever extend, but it sounds to me like you're giving up the things that make her good and I don't really know why
To be blunt, I am most comfortable with her neutral in general to have her on point. And I would prefer her on point as opposed to Filia since at least imo she has a much better round start experience than filia, And I'm not too keen with Eliza point. I've tried it for a few months but it wasnt working out, for some reason i have much more luck with her on anchor than I did with double. I realize that with this team order I am pretty much giving up catheads dhc aka any safe means of getting a character out. Usually if I feel she isnt working out on point against certain players I will just end in to hard knockdown in to tag to get her out or try to set up a puddle in to tag, but other than that shes mostly a make or break character on my team. Just speaking from my own experience I think I do far better with her on point than I would her assists/anchor. But I mainly would like to hear peoples opinions on this. Am I doing it wrong? Should eliza and doubles positions be swithced?
 
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might also be worth it to consider some of the unorthodox but (potentially) useful assists.

filias c.mk, painwheels c.hk, flight, painwheel throw, Danger! (dont remember the properties on each version so i'll just put it here anyways), giant step, cilia slide, parasoul 6s.mp, napalm toss, m.wulf blitzer, reflector

a lot of this stuff is really gimmicky and stupid and probably already tested but could work in theory.

imo actual choices: updo, beat extend, battle butt, horus dive, carpenters axe, butchers blade, val throw (meh), squigs 6s.hp, forever a clone, item drop, napalm shot, napalm pillar, h.beam, cerecopter
 
Cat Slide.
 
The assist that could be useful, or very useful, list is probably to long.
Just about any assist that hits multiple times and has a lockdown property could be useful (woofly has used fortune head on st.mp as an assist quite a bit iirc)

But other "could be useful" assists that are either known to be useful or not:


Excelebella
M or H A train
Any giant step
Mp or lp brass (they come out quicker and are easier to protect cause they don't go as far as h brass)
Just about any bella special especially diamond drop since it's a command grab that throws people behind bella
Eliza cr.mk hits twice and is a low... Might be a very good assist for like filia because of those properties cause filia likes low assists and likes lockdown assists.
Hairball
The close ringlet spike used kinda like how Eliza's Horace assist is used. From a bit of space to anti air and in filias case it will cause major stun for a decently easy confirm on hit.
Center stage
George's day out


Basically you can damn near pick a special with any character and it will probably have "some" use as an assist.
 
MEXICO JUICE said:
might also be worth it to consider some of the unorthodox but (potentially) useful assists.

filias c.mk, painwheels c.hk, flight, painwheel throw, Danger! (dont remember the properties on each version so i'll just put it here anyways), giant step, cilia slide, parasoul 6s.mp, napalm toss, m.wulf blitzer, reflector

a lot of this stuff is really gimmicky and stupid and probably already tested but could work in theory.

imo actual choices: updo, beat extend, battle butt, horus dive, carpenters axe, butchers blade, val throw (meh), squigs 6s.hp, forever a clone, item drop, napalm shot, napalm pillar, h.beam, cerecopter
Reflector assist doesn't work as well as you'd hope. @Zidiane @Tommer
 
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