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Skullgirls Encore Edition Tiers and Matchups Discussion Thread: The Revengeance

If you're going to counterpick Peacock with some weird goofy assist, I think Center Stage will get you further than deflector

but I think Brass would work better than either
 
I spent a long time with center stage.

It's good enough that I felt there was hope and stuck with it, but it's bad enough that I'd just rather pick Cremation every time instead.
 
Center stage works best when you runaway to fullscreen, call it then play jumpin games.
 
Center Stage certainly has its uses but I think that most of the time you're going to want something that actually hits your opponent, honestly. I know that probably sounds like a less thought out mentality but I think that a good attack assist can offer much more versatility where Center Stage is going to be situational and at best a gimmick you base your team/combos around having.
 
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For center stage to work you have to realize its not really an assist for offense pressure
to start offense you need to position yourself into someone's space. Center stage does that.
now you might want trio for the team setup for it to work and you want a lockdown assist.

You want to call it at the most random of times. Preferably when someone calls an assist and you're already doing an action.

Its also a big mindfuck for the screen to shift so i recommend after doing a knockdown combo
edit: when i have squigly on my team i use fukua point or cerebella point so take that as you will
 
Hi why has noone listed H Hurl as a toptier assist

E: Perhaps Brass would look better to the US if you didn't try using it against one of the Top3 players in the world, who happens to run
[Char with a safe halfscreen armorbreak + one of the best sweeps] backed by [THE Brass counter assist]
I don't know
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Hi why has noone listed H Hurl as a toptier assist

seen people use this assist and it is really underrated. great aa, invincibility frames, easy to capitalize off of. yea that assist should be top tier. i noticed slower characters had issues with capitalization but all around good.
 
I think in a trio the assist-specific CD would be less impactful since you probably don't have to call a dp again that soon, but in a duo basically having assist lockout every time you use it would be worse. I've never seen anyone play beo in a trio though
 
Pickles said:
I think in a trio the assist-specific CD would be less impactful since you probably don't have to call a dp again that soon, but in a duo basically having assist lockout every time you use it would be worse. I've never seen anyone play beo in a trio though
i played mpgame and it cost him 4 matches
 
MEXICO JUICE said:
seen people use this assist and it is really underrated. great aa, invincibility frames, easy to capitalize off of. yea that assist should be top tier. i noticed slower characters had issues with capitalization but all around good.


Easy to convert off?

That assist Knocks people really far so it seems like a tougher conversion in general for many characters?
 
Dash Jump. Any character can do it. Any character can convert this way. It's not like it's fiber assist they're still in hitstun on the way down.

The chair on the way down is a different story.

(Although even big band can do dash up 2MK and not spend the otg so I dunno what that means for anyone)
 
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Stuff said:
Dash Jump. Any character can do it. Any character can convert this way. It's not like it's fiber assist they're still in hitstun on the way down.

The chair on the way down is a different story.

(Although even big band can do dash up 2MK and not spend the otg so I dunno what that means for anyone)



Seems like one would have to precommit to the dash jump this way?

I won't have access to the game for a couple of days, but precommitting to forward jump conversions seems to make an AA assist weaker because you leave your point open to counterplay?

Also it seems like conversion ability from empty jump backwards and call the assist in midair would be really hard/impossible for a normal attack conversion?
 
If you're an old man with molasses reactions maybe. I dunno about that last one though probably not it launches a bit further than updo does.


This video is just meant to show that you can totally react to when it hits. Conversions are left for the players who use this assist to find.
 
Stuff said:
If you're an old man with molasses reactions maybe. I dunno about that last one though probably not it launches a bit further than updo does.


This video is just meant to show that you can totally react to when it hits. Conversions are left for the players who use this assist to find.



First of all thanks for that :) I appreciate you taking the trouble to actually make a video.

I don't agree that what you are doing there is a real game scenario or that it would be anywhere near that easy of a conversion in a real game against someone that can beat you say half the time, normally.


I'd go on to say why but it would be long winded and I doubt you'd care :)

Thx for answering my question though and putting it into video form, you've given me some ideas.
 
You don't even have to hit them before they touch the ground.
Just let the chair hit them then dash or run into cLK and do a full combo thing.

I've used this assist and I had no problems with conversions ever.
 
since we're on the topic of assists and I haven't seen this one mentioned yet, I think Robo's cr.mk ( Scroll Heel ) is a solid choice for mixups and meaty setups. It hits low, breaks armor since it's a sweep AND allows you to combo afterwards, covers a decent horizontal range for a normal move, and is very active.
 
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Skarmand said:
You don't even have to hit them before they touch the ground.
Just let the chair hit them then dash or run into cLK and do a full combo thing.

I've used this assist and I had no problems with conversions ever.

For me it seems more character based. I would have huge problems converting this with pw by dashing into an otg confirm.


But with val or robo it would be pretty easy because I've already tried it with robo previously and it was doable so with val it would be as well.

But it seems much harder for other characters. To me at least.

Off the top of my head easy conversions would seem like:

Val
Robo
Parasoul
Filia, especially with gregor
Fukua
Fortune

Basically with characters that have fast startup runs or dashes.



I think the disconnect is because I generally think in terms of Painwheel.

Yeah that's probably it.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
the cooldown period knocks it down i assume
Obviously it does; without the CD it would be the by far best assist in the game
With it, it's still TopTier?

It's a DP that is easy to convert off of, blocks air space on the entire screen and functions as an Anti-Zoning assist as well
The long startup is a bit iffy, but for an assist less of problem than on point since "long invincible startup" kind of locks the opponent into doing nothing

As a bonus point, it sits on a character with a highly damaging DHC, a safe DHC, one of the best Tags.. and who is also kinda good in general

Yeah people kind of underrate this thing a lot
 
Dime_x said:
For me it seems more character based. I would have huge problems converting this with pw by dashing into an otg confirm.

I think the disconnect is because I generally think in terms of Painwheel.

Yeah that's probably it.

She can:
dash jMP
fly jMP
dash 2LK
dash 2MK
dash 2MP
dash any button

she can actually do nearly anything to convert

As I said before any character can convert from this.

Is this what it's like to be mike?
 
I'm now thinking that bella is the best anchor in the game. BB primarily has trouble with being instant overheaded all day and bella doesn't. Both have good reversals but bella has a safe on block one that destroys assists and grants full combo should it hit both characters. Both have great assists, both have great meter dump, but bella being better on point, having a safe on block super, and not being susceptible to instant overheads puts her above BB in my book, for now at least. Bella also has the caveat of having a much better alpha counter into USS which is completely invulnerable, whereas BB L extend gets hit in startup, so BB needs fierce extend which has less stellar anti air abilities as an assist.




On a different note, a telling example of sages style is that he tends to gravitate more lately to assists that don't knockdown yet have horizontal movement:

Drag and bite
H LNL
Fukua drill

Sage tends to like to use these assists to cover his jumpins, and also to use as "safeish" hitconfirms.


Idk whether it's important or not as far as long lasting meta is concerned, but it's certainly interesting.
 
Dime_x said:
On a different note, a telling example of sages style is that he tends to gravitate more lately to assists that don't knockdown yet have horizontal movement:

Drag and bite
H LNL
Fukua drill

Sage tends to like to use these assists to cover his jumpins, and also to use as "safeish" hitconfirms.

As I've realized more and more lately SG neutral is very horizontal, so I guess it makes sense for these assists to be popular at high level play. All three of these assists in particular are also really good for knockdown setups and add a lot of damage to combos. This is also why i'm hesitant to put Eliza as one of the better anchors in the game because I don't feel she has any assists that give you horizontal coverage (even though butchers blade / horus are still good assists for other reasons). It was also the first thing I really noticed when I switched from MK Bomber to LK Bomber.

I've always kinda felt that Bella is the best Anchor in the game just out of sheer versatility. Two really good assists on top of being an excellent point character & really good options with meter.

Idk whether it's important or not as far as long lasting meta is concerned, but it's certainly interesting.
Taluda, Wing, and Skarmand (JK, yes they did) didn't run any horizontal-coverage assists for CB top 8 so i guess that's something. Cloudking / Duck didn't run any of the mentioned assists but ran bomber which is another notable horizontal coverage assist. I don't think the meta is at a "every team needs this" stage yet, but high level players may feel differently.
 
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Dolfinh said:
Taluda, Wing, and Skarmand didn't run any horizontal-coverage assists for CB top 8

Does Napalm shot not count also for horizontal coverage? It's not on the same level as lockdown as the others and bomber like you mentioned, but I'd definitely would say it covers horizontal movement (I use it myself too for that reason). Unless you meant him just using Updo mostly with point parasoul, but he ran point filia in several matches too fwiw.
 
Dolfinh said:
As I've realized more and more lately SG neutral is very horizontal, so I guess it makes sense for these assists to be popular at high level play. All three of these assists in particular are also really good for knockdown setups and add a lot of damage to combos. This is also why i'm hesitant to put Eliza as one of the better anchors in the game because I don't feel she has any assists that give you horizontal coverage (even though butchers blade / horus are still good assists for other reasons). It was also the first thing I really noticed when I switched from MK Bomber to LK Bomber.

I've always kinda felt that Bella is the best Anchor in the game just out of sheer versatility. Two really good assists on top of being an excellent point character & really good options with meter.


Taluda, Wing, and Skarmand didn't run any horizontal-coverage assists for CB top 8 so i guess that's something. Cloudking / Duck didn't run any of the mentioned assists but ran bomber which is another notable horizontal coverage assist. I don't think the meta is at a "every team needs this" stage yet, but high level players may feel differently.

Yeah I totally agree that the game is very horizontal based. But I don't know if it will always be that way or what. It seems to me like horizontal spacing is the easy mode thing to do, but that vertical spacing is actually better.

Characters like val and robo and peacock are very good at vertical spacing and when they do that it can become hard to make horizontal assists matter. You have to time your assist for when they land and that isn't always easy to do against an opponent that mixes it up alot.


But... Horizontal zoning is also stupid good. If only because not many characters have safe on block rushing attacks that can hit the areas of the screen opposite them quickly and easily.

Or maybe they do but either way, when your opponent runs away and you run forward to go offensive against them, you open yourself up to their own offense via blocking beat extend or whatever assist they want.

So it's still a pain.

Perhaps this is why Eliza and fukua are so good. Both have easy ways to pressure the opposite side of the screen, and both have easy ways to go offensive.

Most characters have these things... But those things being "good" is another story. Or at least as good as Eliza's and fukuas versions.


Hmmm...
 
Vertical coverage with your assists is definitely important but, considering the screen is a lot wider than it is tall it only makes sense that horizontal coverage is more vital.

Ultimately I think it depends on what your point character is good at which determines if you want anti-air or horizontal assists (or both if you can manage it).
 
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My assists tend to be a mix of the two, lately leaning towards horizontal ones. I've recently discovered how good of an assist heavy Take The A Train is (mainly cuz someone bodied me online with it).
 
fenster said:
Does Napalm shot not count also for horizontal coverage? It's not on the same level as lockdown as the others and bomber like you mentioned, but I'd definitely would say it covers horizontal movement (I use it myself too for that reason). Unless you meant him just using Updo mostly with point parasoul, but he ran point filia in several matches too fwiw.
Oh yeah I guess L Napalm Shot counts, I didn't think about that.

Dime_x said:
Yeah I totally agree that the game is very horizontal based. But I don't know if it will always be that way or what. It seems to me like horizontal spacing is the easy mode thing to do, but that vertical spacing is actually better.

Characters like val and robo and peacock are very good at vertical spacing and when they do that it can become hard to make horizontal assists matter. You have to time your assist for when they land and that isn't always easy to do against an opponent that mixes it up alot.

I'm thinking that it'll stay very horizontal just because only a few characters have things that give them a vertical neutral. In most versus games I've seen, good characters have vertical neutral because they usually have flight / multiple air dashes / downward hitting normals.

Even if they're favoring a vertical neutral in their playstyle you could cover the air while your horizontal assist works below you. On Squigly I do call bomber > j.lk a lot. It's advantageous since unless they're a well-spaced painwheel or fukua using j.lp, it's going to force them to block. I see running a horizontal assist as a win-win.

IsaVulpes said:
Skarmand also ran H LnL and M Shadow in several matches, though I forgot what his team in Top8 was
Oh I guess M Shadow also counts.
 
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I ran H Drill for my one top 8 match.
That was my first time using that assist, mind you my Fukua is only just over a month old.

Also I'm playing Pillar/Drill now for at least a few months to see how I like it.
 
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Drill and Shadow are both pretty nice for Soul, but I feel Shadow is more of a Trio thing in that it is exceptionally good when you call it at the right times, but often it isn't the right time and you need a 2nd assist to bail you out in those spots

Drill is certainly a ton easier to work with
 
I think the horizontal vs vertical thing is kind of interesting. A majority of the characters are definitely horizontally based, but (atleast in my eyes), the characters with strong vertical movement are stronger than those that excel horizontally. Peacock, Valentine, and Painwheel are all very hard to contest via horizontal tools. Beowulf and Eliza are also amazing characters (again, in my eyes), and they also have solid tools once they are above you. Height advantage is so much in this game. This is probably because most assists are horizontal based, and as somebody said, they simply cannot keep the vertical characters in check. They do, however, excel in keeping the ground/horizontal based characters under control, and seeing as how majority of the cast IS very horizontal based, assists like LnL are generally more useful.

I think it's kind of cool how the generally agreed upon top tier characters are great at moving vertically, but majority of the top tier assists are horizontal.
 
Well, that's why I'm an online warrior and not a tourney player. I like me some gimmicky BB tech (>'')>
 
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