I think the problem is overstated to be sure, but "wait it out and PBGC" is crazy talk since she has a ton of options after j.hp: land > stuff, IAD(forward or backward) > stuff, Sek > stuff (which is tough to reliably punish). I think if you are looking to bait Eliza you've mostly fallen into the trap. In my opinion, you're better off just blocking her and hoping one of the pushblocks stick (most don't).
Like I said though, I think the problem is overstated, but you guys are acting like once Eliza's in, she's free which is far, far from the truth.
Hey now, i never said she was free once shes in the things i stated are all very hard to do because ones natural tendency is to pushblock early.
What im REALLY talking about is flubbing an early pushblock, seeing it be flubbed, but then using that as a way to do a pbgc. This is one of the big reasons why i call early pushblocks against multihit moves (or against strings that dont get pushed out) a kind of option select.
You pushblock early anticipating the opponent to do something that will get them pushed away.
They instead use a multihit move or a string that moves them in. Since you have practiced against these strings you can see them and react. Once you see that you pushblocked this kind of move or string, you reversal the opponent at the end of your pushblock.
Now in the future they have to bait you or get reversaled everytime. This will result in you making some mistakes and getting baited. This will also result in you guessing right and reversaling the opponent.
The net result is 2 things:
Your opponents pressure string isnt "free" for them anymore and sometimes when they do it they will backoff, incorrectly anticipating your reversal and letting you out of pressure for free, which results in the pattern losing SOME of its effectiveness.
The second thing has to do with the first thing. Once the opponent sees their pressure being less effective than before, they will stop trying to abuse it as much. The net result here is that the pressure has slackened considerably, both from use of the string, and from its deadly 100% pressure followups. This is very good for the defender and not so good for the attacker (eliza)
This is very different from trying to make an out of blue read. Here the "read" is actually eliza telegraphing her intentions by doing rising j.lk,j.hp and the opponent being smart enough to be able to read elizas current psychology while doing the pattern and knowing whether shes thinking aggressively, or thinking in a more balanced baity way. There are lots of reads that are available to a player depending on how their opponent is currently playing. Nothing is 100%, but thats the way the game is designed, to put the other player in a position where they have to think and make a read not just rely on good reactions and spacial ability to save them from everything. Well, the spacial thing was before the beta.
And
@Dreamepitaph
Yeah eliza can bait all theses things which is why i gave multiple options. If she couldnt bait the first option YOU would have no need to have a second option...
The point isnt that she can bait you the point is both stated above and:
If shes gotten into that range in the first place it means youve made a mistake and now have to suffer the consquences of being confirmed on, or having to deal with a mixup of some sort.
Since youve made a mistake (a dumb play, basically) you now have to make a smart play to get yourself out.
So, making that choice should be what you do. Not waiting for the eliza player to mess up.
Heres a really dumb easy example:
You are using filia, eliza takes advantage of some mistake of yours and gets close enough to j.lk you. You pushblock the j.lk and notice that it was a j.lk and further notice that she will probably chain into a j.hp since its what shes been doing for the last however many games. You also know that after making you block that pattern that the eliza player will go for some sort of mixup. So, you just reversal with with fukuas tag. If the eliza player went for a j.lk repressure, or a throw, or a low... You win, and not only do you win... You get a free combo. This will affect the eliza player next time if they are any good. They may try for an offense that still pressures you, but beats tag reversals, as an example.
