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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

dekillsage said:
edit: so like can you do stuff like
Scenario:

Opponents incoming in the corner, call copter 50/50 cross under or not mix up -> if its blocked dash back + move head back -> st.hk -> kick it at the new angles you can hit it at? -> Pressure + next assist call???

While I myself couldn't do it (I dunno how to use copter sorry) I'm sure that it's possible if the opponent doesn't pb both Fortune and the head (but headbutt sneeze on block in beta is a thing) and even then that begs to delay headbutt a bit to catch a pb. There's a lot of things fortune can do when headless it just requires a little thought and flexibility. The decap attack change aids this because s.hk j.lk j.lk is great on incoming. (probably safe too hitting the head of course)

After headbutt there is a multitude of things you can do since it's + by A LOT. So if the opponent was a dummy who doesn't pb (or doesn't pb well) then fortune can keep pressure and throw in mix ups (overhead, cross up overhead, low, throw) if she pleases and remain safe on block. As long as the player is smart about it.

Headless doesn't have those types of players yet though but they're getting there. So I dunno where you'd rate headless. Although I don't believe you should rate two forms of the same character differently because both forms seem like tools for the character overall.

(No one has really used both forms of fortune yet so maybe with head-on as your tool to get in would aid headless the mix up and pressure form you'd beat the opponent quickly but I dunno it's all up in the air with this theory fighting.)

I hope I made sense. I don't really like talking about this stuff on the forums because I don't understand this game yet.
 
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Yeah Japan tech is amazing.

Also if anyone knows what the song is I'd appreciate it.

EDIT: It was this video that convinced me I was playing Fortune wrong the whole time.
 
I've always said fortune was good if you played her head on and converted into headless for mixups and such. Stopped playing her a lot more because was not a fan of not being able to combo into headspike from j.HP/j.MK on top of headless just being crippled a little too much IMO. The most recent beta changes definitely make her feel more complete in allowing me to switch between head on and off along with the new headless tools.

That c.LK juggle is a little nuts though. I was trying it out earlier today and was getting like 800-1000 extra damage in my combo and almost 2k for doing it a second time.

Also, why does headspike still have that ground bounce hitbox? Just curious.
 
lol wasn't that thing fortune is doing in that video not supposed to be there? Really cool video though!
 
I guess I can input my 2 cents.

Parasoul
- Tears tossed within the first 10f of a jump, and then manually set in place by releasing the button, will now appear smaller for 30f and detonate smaller when hit during that time. The smaller detonation has much less blockstun and hitstun, and does much less damage, but might be a better alternative to nothing.
I accept this nerf.

Parasoul's Silent Scope is now more like the super that inspired it: Startup longer, still not invincible; recovery shorter, -18 on block instead of -48; sniper now waits for a target for up to 60f, and will hold their fire as long as the crosshair is not over anything vulnerable; damage 1500->1750; recovery longer on hit.
- Silent Scope now causes crumple even vs airborne opponents...that might be too good but let's see how it goes.
After playing around with this for a few hours, I'm not happy but I understand if it stays. I just disagree with the tradeoff of sniper's recovery being sooooo long. I would rather have shorter recovery and maybe 30f of waiting on target or maybe getting rid of air crumble? I can not combo off sniper even after long pauses of older combos I have.

Air crumble I still have found no use for it BUT that's just my team specifically. I can see benefits to other teams (DHCs) that I'm sure will be good. I won't be selfish here, has good potential (just not for me)

That's why I will say, not a fan of this change but will accept it.


Fukua
- Super fireball no longer causes sliding. Ground version is blockable post-flash (air already was).
Fine, I'll live.

- Forever A Clone all versions +15f recovery on Fukua (roughly until after the shadow hits); all versions do 750 damage; M version blockstun -3f.
Not always hit-confirmable anymore. I thought the point of these moves were for zoning and hit confirms, but now it feels like it's used for combo extension only (less versatile). I REALLY don't agree with this. Zoning just got worse, hit confirms are much harder and does less damage? That's too much and thats not even the last nerf yet!

j.HK scales damage to 75%.
More scaling than a throw?? Wow harsh, but I'll live I guess. Thought getting rid of fireballs after this was to kill brain-dead hit confirms but now even without brain-dead hit confirms, combo scales more than any other thing in the game. Was she that GDLK after her initial nerfs? I feel like she is getting beat up the most.

- Drillationship L/M/H startup 10/15/20; H version +6f recovery, strike invincible again on startup, for longer than before!
Fine, I'll live.

Painwheel
hold down buttons to do spin move stuff
Cool, I personally won't use this cause I don't have the patience and hand stuff but I like it!


TL;DR
I don't mind the changes to Painwheel and Parasoul but the only thing that bothers me is hit confirms from shadows are now not as useful which was the original point of shadow moves.
 
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cloudKing211 said:
Was the headspike stuff taken out of the game (from the video), cant seem to do any of it?
You mean the ground bounce? He miiiiiiiiight be doing it on the fudged up version where you could get the ground bounce 100% of the time if you are facing the right side of the screen but not the left. Getting the ground bounce is still possible but really unreliable, I've had it happen a few times against squigly in the current beta.
 
RemiKz said:
You mean the ground bounce? He miiiiiiiiight be doing it on the fudged up version where you could get the ground bounce 100% of the time if you are facing the right side of the screen but not the left. Getting the ground bounce is still possible but really unreliable, I've had it happen a few times against squigly in the current beta.
I mainly meant the head spike into cr.lk head loops, I tried mimicking the combo on filia, but it won't let cr.hp head spike to allow the cr.lk stuff
 
cloudKing211 said:
I mainly meant the head spike into cr.lk head loops, I tried mimicking the combo on filia, but it won't let cr.hp head spike to allow the cr.lk stuff
Must be timing it wrong since I'm doing it just fine.

EDIT: You mean the c.LK otg midscreen after head spike? What are you trying specifically?
 
cloudKing211 said:
I mainly meant the head spike into cr.lk head loops, I tried mimicking the combo on filia, but it won't let cr.hp head spike to allow the cr.lk stuff

I remember there being an oddity to it like TK back or something so the hand spikes/hits but the head doesn't.
 
Cr.hp - head spike to cr.lk loop. Can't get the head spike to connect when I jump back, only neutral jump, is it a link or something?
 
Can't you just say the time on the video to make all our lives easier?

EDIT: The inputs are also right there in the video.
 
I realized the other day but because Peacock can grab into Lenny then argus for 7k, it makes her level 3 seem even more useless =p.

I've said it before but I'll bring it up because it seems like a fun experiment; the ant from c.mk having some sort of hitbox, s.mp pie on whiff staggering opponents who step on it and the canon from s.hp inflicting chip. I can dream right?
 
cloudKing211 said:
Cr.hp - head spike to cr.lk loop. Can't get the head spike to connect when I jump back, only neutral jump, is it a link or something?
its character and height specific
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
s.mp pie on whiff staggering opponents who step on it

man

man

man

only if double gets it too so i can make people slip on pies into puddles and then the monster is like CHOMP MMM PIE
 
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At 57 and 1:20, it looks like he upbacks and does headspike, but ive tried instant and delayed headspike and cant seem to get it, should I just keep trying?
 
Zidiane said:
Throws actually scale to 50%.
Doesn't 75% mean it will be 75% less damage so the same combo starting with a throw will be stronger than the same combo starting off a j. hk? Or am I understanding that backwards? What does j. hk scale now?
 
MegamanDS said:
More scaling than a throw?? Wow harsh, but I'll live I guess.

Its actually less damage scaling than a throw.
 
MegamanDS said:
Doesn't 75% mean it will be 75% less damage so the same combo starting with a throw will be stronger than the same combo starting off a j. hk? Or am I understanding that backwards? What does j. hk scale now?

You got it backwards. Combos starting from j.HK deal 25% less damage.
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
I realized the other day but because Peacock can grab into Lenny then argus for 7k, it makes her level 3 seem even more useless =p.

I've said it before but I'll bring it up because it seems like a fun experiment; the ant from c.mk having some sort of hitbox, s.mp pie on whiff staggering opponents who step on it and the canon from s.hp inflicting chip. I can dream right?
How about trying to make her level 3 a command grab?

Gives her close up game options once she has meter and gives it some use?
 
cloudKing211 said:
At 57 and 1:20, it looks like he upbacks and does headspike, but ive tried instant and delayed headspike and cant seem to get it, should I just keep trying?
how are you doing the tk exactly? because I get the ground bounce every time

I do 2369 cat spike and 9 236 cat spike.
 
cloudKing211 said:
At 57 and 1:20, it looks like he upbacks and does headspike, but ive tried instant and delayed headspike and cant seem to get it, should I just keep trying?
That's character specific. I've had it happen with squigly somewhat frequently but it seems reeeeaaaaally strike on filia.
 
I get the ground bounce on both just fine. Try get the cat spike at their max height after the launcher.

Also the ground bounce just doesn't work on bella in the corner if I recall and val and para require fortune back up a tiny bit otherwise the head will hit too.
 
I think the idea of making her level 3 a command grab isn't a liked idea because she'd be a zoner with a powerful upclose option? Something like that, I forgot the exact reason that was specified before.
 
Regarding PWs TP input on Pinion Dash:

Sounds like MMDS is where I'm at. It is a buff in the sense that any addition moves just adds to a character, but I'll likely never use this in an actual match.

The input is awkward and due to that, it has incredibly limited uses. From what little I can tell, the best use for it is to get some damn good assists, play lame, and charge up to level 3. Level 1 will see almost no use, is my guess. And level 2 is almost a punishment for charging just a little too long or not long enough.

If it matters, I'm indifferent to the move itself with this input. I'd be very glad to see it change. Some ideas thrown around were qcb and Cilia slide inputs.

To be fair, there are some people that seem to be for it:
@ClarenceMage
@dMags

Not a lot of other PWs are really talking about it at all, at least not here from what I can tell.
 
I have an idea for Fukua j.HK.

Remove the extra scaling, but make it so that she can't cancel into specials on whiff (can still cancel into super).
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
I think the idea of making her level 3 a command grab isn't a liked idea because she'd be a zoner with a powerful upclose option? Something like that, I forgot the exact reason that was specified before.
So, Ivy from Soul Calibur.
 
\
worldjem said:
I have an idea for Fukua j.HK.

Remove the extra scaling, but make it so that she can't cancel into specials on whiff (can still cancel into super).
wouldn't that be an exception and doesn't mike want to have less exceptions as possible? (this is concerning about canceling into specials)
 
Dreamepitaph said:
wouldn't that be an exception and doesn't mike want to have less exceptions as possible? (this is concerning about canceling into specials)
So, Big Band's j.HK.
 
big band's j hk is fairly good when active and uses otg? i understand the idea though so thanks loose!'

edit: Band's j hk active frames are fairly good while j hk is 2 active frames.
double edit: the otg is irrelevant.
I'm not sure why band can't cancel into timpani
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
I think the idea of making her level 3 a command grab isn't a liked idea because she'd be a zoner with a powerful upclose option? Something like that, I forgot the exact reason that was specified before.

That's actually the exact reason why. AS of now, lvl 3 can be teched. Command grabs can't be broken. So it would be at odds with her intended design.
 
I'm +1 for Peacock level 3 command grab.
 
I'm pretty sure Mike has said before that Peacock's level 3 is only for styling. I doubt anything changing that will be put in the beta.
 
Can't Mike just make the input for lvl 3 be qcb LP+LK (or qcb+PP) and have it be exactly her regular grab that goes straight into level 3 and have it be techable?

Makes no difference to me but I don't see an issue with it.
 
ok after playing beta fukua i kinda hate recovery on clones being so much. like i really don't want to use them anymore if i feel like i can avoid them because i just feel like a sitting duck for so long after i do it.

not a fan of j.hk scaling at all. kinda wish it was gone. at the very least i don't feel like it should scale a combo if you don't start with j.hk

i'm fine with drill changes. actually i'd take losing all invincibility on drill if i could get sliding knockdown back on fireball super, i really miss that.

otherwise i do completely agree that she needed a damage nerf so all the clone damage nerfs i agree with 100

also double feels great, i love new cr.hp and new gun. i'm trying to use s.mp more but it's not burnt into muscle memory just yet but i really like that change also. new super is nice but i still have no idea what to do with it yet outside of throwing it out there to discourage people from approaching. also there's a bug with DHCing into monster that i need to record to show you

one last thing i was thinking about double is if you could extend the hitbox of cr.mp lower so that its easier to OTG some characters with it. otherwise she feels great compared to retail double
 
Mike_Z said:
@d3v
Your reasoning doesn't make any sense to me. If there is more damage to be done and you're not doing it, then you aren't playing as well as you could when you land a hit, and you will always be more effective once you do hit if you can deal more damage. It's why nobody does Timeslip combos with Cable. :^( But you never HAVE to focus on damage to play any character, that's some kinda weird personal hangup. I usually don't learn optimal anything for anyone I play, I focus on what I can do consistently, and I find doing nonstandard stuff throws off people I play against.
She's still just as easy to land hits with and nothing mid-level really changed in difficulty so...yeah.
I'll admit, that was mostly my deteriorating execution talking combined with classic Philippine arcade group-think which is basically not to kill off your opponent as soon as you touch him (which should explain the number of Iron Man teams in MvC2 here).

And I agree with not usually learning anything optimal to play. I just liked that I didn't really need to optimize alot for big damage with Fukua. Most of the time, my combo damage with her comes from confirming off stray shadows or shadow mix-ups which mean that they're already in the air so I don't really get to add more shadows into the combo. I was just happy that I could still push up to high 6k to low 7k before undizzy hit.

That said, on further testing, I'm now less worried about the damage and more worried about the recovery on the shadows.
 
Mike_Z said:
And no, Goodfellas is FOR exactly what it's for. Hilarity and CHs. If anything I'd fix triple Argus off throw. :^)

Comes to mind with recent conversation.
 
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