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Eliza SPOILERS - Eliza Story Mode Discussion

Cellsai said:
I dunno about that. Cerebella was the first to die.
Cellsai pls
 
Dracogen said:
There was a crackpot theory a while ago about how Double is somehow related to Queen Nancy Renoir due to the similar shape of the crowns they wore.
Now "Lamia" DOES fit perfectly in the censored box, but you have to wonder...Nancy?
Nancy also fits perfectly, even the tail on the Y.

The one thing that bugs me about it is that, yes, Nancy has a similar crown to Double's, but Lamia also seems to wear that crown anyway. Lamia is clearly older than the Renoirs and has a big honken statue of her with her crown in the cathedral. Why would the reference say she's a shadow of Lamia, but has a crown like Nancy's, if Nancy's crown is apparently a derivative of Lamia's?
Why not say her crown is based off Lamia's, if Lamia's is far more similar looking anyway?

Nancy .png
 
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iLoli said:
I thought it was already agreed on that she was kind of sloppily copying Nancy's crown design for some lore reason that hasn't been explained?

Maybe every skullgirl that has died is assimilated into Double for.........Stuff? And since Nancy was the last, Double has her crown?

Every Skullgirl Past, Present or Future? That might explain why Lamia (Double) was able to sire a time controlling daughter (Aeon) in the first place. Although Peacock and a few others of the main 8 (I can't remember) destroyed the skullheart so that's a bit of a puzzle :l. Interdimentional time warping, the pyro is a ghost from ghostland and mass chaos everywhere.
 
Cellsai said:
Why would the reference say she's a shadow of Lamia, but has a crown like Nancy's, if Nancy's crown is apparently a derivative of Lamia's?
There is only one answer to this question.

Semantics.
 
What I mean is like this:

Lamia has that distinct crown. Double has one that is almost identical.
Nancy also has a distinct crown in the same style, but it's got more spokes and has those big spines hanging off the ends.

Clearly Double's crown is far more similar to Lamia's than Nancy's. Why namedrop Nancy at all?
 
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Osmiumsmith said:
Gehenna feels as a really adequate stage to Double.

And it seems the nun has something in her dislike list.

Well, Eliza is:

A magnificent tyrannical, sadistic, homicidal, cruel, rapist, slaver bitch with a god complex.

Good villain, Lab zero.

Now all our hopes are on:

Mega Marie tagging with Beowulf to suplex the Crimson Scourge to oblivion.
And Annie.

Don't forget THE Annie
 
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Cellsai said:
Yeah, I don't really follow the outright god status everyone is attributing to these characters.
Eliza was considered a god at one point and can do some crazy shit like her blood kaiju at the end, but we know she's just a woman with a parasite. I imagine Lamia, Aeon and Venus are the same.

There are some stories of gods weakening when they lose worshipers. Maybe whatever Eliza did, which Leviathan and Samson eluded to, cost them their status and made them vulnerable.

iLoli said:
Weakened Parasite + Some sore of seal = Living Weapon?

Parasite + Proper host= Theon?

Or maybe even Theon=Very strong and special human or maybe even a different species?

Theon - power=Parasite=Weakened state of a Theon?

I'm thinking that Theon is simply an older word for Parasite, though the idea of an ideal pairing works too. Either way, my suspicion is that if you kill a Parasite/Theon you end up with Theonite. Maybe its a Final Fantasy VI Magicite style conversion, maybe you just stick the remains in a blender, whatever. I think that Living Weapons are previously mundane objects that have been treated with Theonite. It could sort of give them a Frankenstein's Monster vibe from a Parasite's perspective and tie into that line about tools.
 
Cellsai said:
What I mean is like this:

Lamia has that distinct crown. Double has one that is almost identical.
Nancy also has a distinct crown in the same style, but it's got more spokes and has those big spines hanging off the ends.

Clearly Double's crown is far more similar to Lamia's than Nancy's. Why namedrop Nancy at all?
Oh no I understand what you're saying completely.
I just have no idea how to answer that question other than "Meh, Alex wanted to say something about it? I dunno kek"

LordCeno said:
Either way, my suspicion is that if you kill a Parasite/Theon you end up with Theonite. Maybe its a Final Fantasy VI Magicite style conversion, maybe you just stick the remains in a blender, whatever.
Which really makes you wonder what the limits of this Theonite really is, considering Isaac's time traveling shenanigans.

ALSO if people knew the term "Theonite" why is it that in-universe, people still choose to address parasites as "parasites" and not "Theons"? It seems that no one (bar Eliza and the parasites themselves) even know of the term "Theon".
 
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Speaking of Theonite, y'know how Isaac's bio is this:
Isaac is an archaeologist who has made unsettling discoveries below the Canopy Kingdom, only to have the evidence buried. Now hunted, Isaac has been literally buying time using shards of a unique type of Theonite he discovered in his search. The one other person who knows about the dig has been wrongfully imprisoned, but learning the truth would put her in greater danger.
Finds unsettling (understatement much?) archeological stuff under Canopy Kingdom. Also finds shards of something that lets him travel through time.

Clearly theonite has some relationship to theons/parasites. Aside from the obvious naming convention it's also used to balance out soul contamination with artificial parasites.

Methinks Isaac is probably unknowingly desecrating a very particular corpse with that fancy glove of his. Don't tell Double. She's kind of sensitive apparently.
 
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Please, everyone saying we need Beowulf, Annie or Super-Mode Marie (or a combination of the 3) to beat Eliza, remember these things:

1.) Everything went down the drain for everyone but Eliza in her story
2.) Big Band wasn't featured at all in her story (most likely this timeline's Band was busy dealing with Peacock being a handful and getting Painwheel to Lab 8.)

Coincidence? I think not. One TUBATUBATUBA and a "Smooth!" later and Eliza would be IV bag filling


:P
 
@Zidiane
Theonite is the special element that supposedly has something to do with being the source of power of Living Weapons. It's also been said that Living Weapons have something to do with Parasites, but are not parasites, Now that we know Parasites either are or used to be 'Theons' it's starting to come together, at least partially anyway.
 
I think everyone is making out the 'god' thing to literally, if we consider what Alex said about Theons/Parasites being close to the idea of demons, maybe they were worshipped as deities?

If that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised if a royal family, I.E., Lamia's family had parasites that where passed down like Squigly and Leviathan.

But I think Eliza probably killed Lamia and her daughters so she could take the throne and given how Sekhmet is more then capable of creating a body, maybe Aeon's form is made from sand and Venus is made from...whatever the fuck Abbadon is made of.

Plus I think it would ruin the image of parasites if Sekhmet got way to greedy say...swallowed her host whole, basically fusing them together into one being and using that power to ransack and capture kingdoms for mass worship?
 
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I liked the buddy cop sidekick Cereballa though.

Not to mention her first contact with Ms. Fortune is just them slinging cat puns back and forth
 
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BlackRoseAngel said:
Every single statue in Gehenna is missing it's head. Almost as if Gehenna erases one's identity. Or maybe something else that resides there.



And if she doesn't I'm sure that new outfit she's sporting can make her obedient, from the neck down at least. <3

Let me know if I'm overdoing the whole nightmare fetish thing.
There is actually something that swims in the lake of blood.

Just a FYI.
Dracogen said:
Oh no I understand what you're saying completely.
I just have no idea how to answer that question other than "Meh, Alex wanted to say something about it? I dunno kek"


Which really makes you wonder what the limits of this Theonite really is, considering Isaac's time traveling shenanigans.

ALSO if people knew the term "Theonite" why is it that in-universe, people still choose to address parasites as "parasites" and not "Theons"? It seems that no one (bar Eliza and the parasites themselves) even know of the term "Theon".

Because calling them parasites is specissim, which is the purpose of using the word in the first place.
 
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BlackRoseAngel said:
Eliza does imply that humans created myths and legends about gods and monsters to explain what they couldn't understand and to inflate their own importance in the world. Also one of the things she hates on her character sheet is human arrogance and prejudice against parasites. Consider that Eliza was once a powerful ruler in the ancient world and is more or less being blackmailed by the Medicis to do their bidding, since they know her secret.

It would seem that in addition to her desire to restore herself to a position of rulership, she's also motivated by a desire to turn the table on humans. This might also indicate why she surrounds herself with ferals, since they are also discriminated against.

Maybe. But considering the amount of importance that she gives to parasites and herself I think she stimulated myths of parasites as Gods since she would be seen as a God herself because of them. What pisses her off is that parasites are seem as something to be avoided instead of adored which is also a form of prejudice but one that sees non-parasited people as inferior.

"How could you consider yourselves more important than me? Don't think you mere servants can hostilize us!"

Edit: Basically it is not: "racist vs. non-racist". It is: "racist A vs. racist 1".

With the additional problem that Samson said that Eliza herself is the main reason that humans hate and fear parasites. The complainer had given people reasons to hate her.

Man, fuck Eliza.
 
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iLoli said:
I

I think the problem here is that a lot of people are assuming that the "god" characters are invincible or unbeatable without some macguffin.

I'm pretty sure they're just humans or something that are absurdly strong or have gotten that way over the millennia of lives they've lived.

I have a hard time imagining killing people who occasionally channel surf the time space continuum for fun.
 
I think Theon is just a term for any being given life through Theonite. I also think that when Eliza said Bretheren she meant any beings created by Theonite, and how they've been reduced to Living Weapons for Human use.
 
FakeangeL said:
Why would Eliza's personal bathing house have tourists in it?
What if they're her personal cabana boys?

EDIT: Actually, what if when Eliza's not fighting, she's in the background being fanned by topless men?
 
WaterMystic277 said:
What if they're her personal cabana boys?

EDIT: Actually, what if when Eliza's not fighting, she's in the background being fanned by her topless assistants?

Fixed it
 
mcpeanuts said:
I actually did know the situation before I posted that. I just think it's interesting. Especially the ones that are more specific, like Peacock says "best friends forever" when she calls out Marie.

Even more reason why I wanted to see Peacock take on Eliza after Eliza defeated Marie.
Get revenge for her best friend, yo.
Then have Big Band show up to protect Peacock.

But I ain't the guy who writes the story so
 
Genoisawesome said:
Even more reason why I wanted to see Peacock take on Eliza after Eliza defeated Marie.
Get revenge for her best friend, yo.

Time for a Marie redemption character arc in Skullgirls 2?
 
Cellsai said:
I actually get the feeling that maybe she was supposed to do that. Maybe there was some issue with it. No other story mode has the player character switch costumes. Only Double has a specific palette when you fight her as Cerebella I think.
Personally I thought both double and Eliza would be in some sort of super mode in that battle due to the amount of blood/flesh on that stage.
MajoraZ said:
Well, lore wise, that was certainily a tease. Reminds me of what bungie did with halo all the time. Also, i'm gonna post some theories I have much like I did then. Keep in mind I don't know much about old cut/releaed story stuff that was in alex's sketchbook and such

I don't have a concrete theory worked out, but here's a coupe of tangentially related thoughts I have going through my head. I haven't read much of the thread yet.

  • Eliza is a god like Venus, Aeon, and Mother/Lamia (Implied by eliza)
  • Said gods are called theons, possibly related to theonite? (Implied by eliza, conjecture by @Dracogen)
  • Said gods can only exist in the normal skullgirls world through avatars (Implied by eliza)
  • Gods/theons are some sort of ascended parasite (implied by eliza/through dialog with leviathan and samson)
    • Cont of above: Requires two parasites to use the same host/combine/consume each other (implied by eliza/dialog with samson and leviathan)
  • All parasites are gods, and are avatars of gods that can only interact with the normal skullgirls world via a human host, hence parasites (conjectural extension of dialog by eliza)
  • Theons/"gods" are parasites that manage to exist in complete symbiosis or independently from a human host (implied by eliza)
  • Most myths are due to parasites and their hosts, or hosts and living weapons (Samson, Leviathan, Skehemet are examples. A conjectural example would be king arthur and excalibur) (Implied by eliza/dialog with samson and leviathan
  • Double/Mother/Mother's avatar was draining blood/flesh from corpses that marie was stocking for.... something. (Implied by eliza/dialog with double)
    • Restoring venus/Aeon?
      • Is this the purpose of the skull heart?
        • Maybe the skull heart is just another parasite?
Anyways, assuming all of this is untrue, i'm confused to as if eliza exists as a person or did at one point. Is eliza just sekehmet? Or is there some type of human host there that is still sentient? Or was there one at one time that sekhemet just took over, like samson did in that character idea?

Also, this could probably be discussed elsewhere, but i'm not gonna risk it: After seeing eliza's story mode, I really wish her blood was used a bit more creatively in battle. Don't get me wrong, I think all of the egyptian shape-shifting is really cool and imaginative, but much like how I wish double didn't have other characters moves and just turned into puddles and had long range tentacle attacks and shape shifting into various objects or fleshy things, I think blood puddles/tentacles like what we saw when she attacked cerebella and fillia would have been cool, or blood locust projectiles.

I also really hope alex isn't changing the lore/story around for us so that we have story modes for characters. I heard somewhere that eliza was intended to be the boss of a hypothetical skullgirls two, and I can see how. I REALLY don't want alex feeling like he has to change stuff around because he had to reveal/give us stuff due to all the stuff that happened regarding reverb/Autumn and everything.

Doing some more thinking on this.

I'm pretty confident about the last bit here, at least: The purpose of the skullheart and the skullgirl, by extension, is to gather resources (bodies) for aeon and venus to be revived.

Obvious questions: 1. Why does this require a skullgirl? Why not just have double or whatever wish granting power the skullheart has to power up double and just have it massacre things? 2. Why only skullgirls? Why not skullboys?

I think the key here is that aeon and venus (and mother), were, at least presumably, female, and that the skullgirl herself is intended to become the/an avatar for one or both or all 3 of the trinity. Marie was an unsuitable skullgirl because her will was too strong: She would be able to resist their influences. Hence why double needed to dispose of her and find other candidates.

This also explains why those with pure hearts cannot become the skullgirl: They would be incorruptible.
 
FakeangeL said:
There is actually something that swims in the lake of blood.

As if Gehenna didn't creep me out enough already.
 
MajoraZ said:
Why only skullgirls? Why not skullboys?
I believe it's been mentioned by Alex that generally each following Skullgirl is more powerful than the previous ones. Perhaps once a Skullgirl becomes powerful enough, she will be able to give birth to Aeon and Venus anew.

The fact that Nancy carried Umbrella in her womb while already being a Skullgirl is presented as a big deal by Double in Parasoul's story. In the same story mode, Umbrella appears to mistake/perceive Double (or the Skullgirl, or the Skullheart) as her mother, adding to the theme of daughter-mother relations when it comes to the Skullheart.
 
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Sooo....does that mean Umbrella may become the third Goddess sister? Maybe sort of a Hercules figure? Did I read it wrong? Yeah I prob read that wrong.
 
I liked it how Skullgirls turned into the new "Vampire Savior", with not very serious characters but with a very dark story.
 
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Muro said:
I believe it's been mentioned by Alex that generally each following Skullgirl is more powerful than the previous ones. Perhaps once a Skullgirl becomes powerful enough, she will be able to give birth to Aeon and Venus anew.

The fact that Nancy carried Umbrella in her womb while already being a Skullgirl is presented as a big deal by Double in Parasoul's story. In the same story mode, Umbrella appears to mistake/perceive Double (or the Skullgirl, or the Skullheart) as her mother, adding to the theme of daughter-mother relations when it comes to the Skullheart.
No way Marie is anywhere near as powerful as Nancy.
 
FakeangeL said:
No way Marie is anywhere near as powerful as Nancy.
Skullgirls do get more powerful with each incarnation. But Marie is super focused on her vigilante goal, which means she has an astonishing amount of self control and will power. She clearly has a dislike of tyrants and overlords (like the Medicis and now Eliza).

I believe Nancy was extremely distraught over the Grand War, meaning the Skullheart had pretty much free reign when it took over.
 
'Generally' is the key word. Nancy was experienced and most likely skilled at using her umbrella living weapon, which could naturally transfer to utilizing any other form of power. Marie is pretty green, young, lacking combat training and not fully attuned with the Skullheart (yet).
 
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Her story was definitely different, I'll give it that much. Was a nice change from everyone else's. Her fall into her old habits seems rushed but then again it's mainly due to not knowing how much time passed so it's a moot point. Still, I liked it and it shed some light on a few things while hiding others.

Was bummed Bella got offed but then again, 3 on 1 and one of the three is a literal powerhouse. So I chalk her death up to the likes of Ace (OP) and Kamina (GL) and bit off more than she could chew (though really, she gets far too much hate. come on folks). Her enslaving/imprisoning the rest seemed fitting given her personality. The ending was pretty funny, hope she got her comeuppance though. Karma houdini's annoy the crud out of me.
 
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