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Street Fighter V

Guys...Urien,guys...
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we living the politically correct era, there's no dreams to be lived here. Go home.
 
I'm not going to get into this since this is like the 4th or 5th time these particular arguments are being battled out, but the finish to the move, (the upsidedown split) looked cool and reminded me of something out of Kinnikuman. That's what I'm more upset about.
 
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CaioLugon said:
Either way, anyone actually getting salty over this is probably just a perverted jerk.

Wow. Generalising much?
 
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SanoBaron said:
have you EVER, seen professional wrestling?
like, ever?

My post was so absurd to you that you quoted it twice?

Any way for those that pull the "rooted in reality" as if thinking that is somehow divorced from fanservice... R. Mika's sexuality is more on display than the average (relative to AJW).

Not to mention that the issue isn't sexuality in a video game. It is the near exclusive show of female sexuality in a video game. I mean... it's not exactly like they using Dump Matsumoto as the model.

It's fan service pure and simple. If you like it because you want to see TnA then fine... but be honest about it. People aren't mad about the slap being removed because it is "wrestling at its core". They are made because some form of sexuality got censored.

And what I meant by cliche is that she is first and foremost sexual fanservice. The interesting part of her (wrestling) is diminished by this fact. I'd have loved to see a big beefcake of a female wrestler... that would have been incredibly interesting. Instead we get Tits McGee with a dropkick *yawn*.
 
Spencer said:
It's fan service pure and simple. If you like it because you want to see TnA then fine... but be honest about it.

I don't like her for the fanservice (she's not my type), and I could honestly care-less about the butt-slap removal, but I simply don't agree with her being called "cliche". If you can't see the abundance of colorful personality in her SF Alpha animations, well I find your tastes questionable good sir.

Spencer said:
I'd have loved to see a big beefcake of a female wrestler.

Not necessarily. Interesting is in the execution, not the concept.
 
Ruin said:
I need to see the pubes poking out of Urien's diaper
make it happen clapcorp
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First SF5 was a fan service/waifu heaven. Now its gone. God damn you marketing strategy guy!God damn you!
Lets move to Dead or Alive guys.
 
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Squire Grooktook said:
I don't like her for the fanservice (she's not my type), and I could honestly care-less about the butt-slap removal, but I simply don't agree with her being called "cliche". If you can't see the abundance of colorful personality in her SF Alpha animations, well I find your tastes questionable good sir.



Not necessarily. Interesting is in the execution, not the concept.

I too could care less about the butt-slap removal. I'm more annoyed by people's annoyance that it has been removed. There's a doublespeak thing happening with "Well we don't like her for the fanservice" and "We get livid when the fanservice gets removed".

As far as her theme we'll certainly have to agree to disagree then. I don't find her interesting at all.
 
Spencer said:
There's a doublespeak thing happening with "Well we don't like her for the fanservice" and "We get livid when the fanservice gets removed".

It's just the idea that they censored something. Censoring is generally not good.

On the other hand, you could always argue that Mika's inclusion was just an attempt at crass market appeal, crass market appeal/pandering not being any better for creativity then censorship.

Regardless, even though I have no stakes in this particular issue, I understand and empathize with people's concerns.
 
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Half the time, though, that concern basically boils down to 'There was much more sexy and now there's less!'

Like would there really be this much outrage if T&A wasn't involved?

When people crow about 'censorship' when it's the people who did the thing in the first place thinking "Okay, maybe we can dial this back" rather than people actually having their words or creativity stifled it's hard for me to believe this is really the slippery slope people make it out to be.

And this is from a guy who's all for the ass slap.
 
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Ruin said:
i'm honestly more annoyed that they removed the leg split
that was real wrestling shit and it's not there anymore
that makes me sad
Yeah, see I'm with you on that.
 
The leg split is really something annoying.

But i feel that if they went to the censor thing, just change the animation, this looks like just a cheap solution to someone's request that was mad.

Still waiting to see if they fix laura's pants, i know is not going to happen, but ok.
 
Ruin said:
i'm honestly more annoyed that they removed the leg split
that was real wrestling shit and it's not there anymore
that makes me sad
Yeah man, that just looked brutal and painful as all hell. "We just launched you in to the air, crushed your skull and drove you into the ground at mach 3 while destroying your spine and femurs and pelvis...don't get up." It was a good aesthetic; we've seen many people end up like that from other wrestling characters like King, but I've never seen a side-by-side team Kinniku Buster
 
Don't be surprised with people reacting strongly to this kind of changes when you have stupid people yelling "sexist" at half the games.

Not to mention now all those animations look simply stupid.

Cammy is off-centred; there is no point to the slap if it happens off-camera, cause it's just distracting and the legs aren't held but both Mika and Nadeshiko still have their arms in holding position.
 
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Kawalorn said:
Don't be surprised with people reacting strongly to this kind of changes when you have stupid people yelling "sexist" at half the games.

Not to mention now all those animations look simply stupid.

Cammy is off-centred, there is no point to the slap if it happens off-camera cause it's just distracting and the legs aren't held but both Mika and Nadeshiko still have their arms in holding position.
Actually, their arms aren't quite the same way. They look like they're fist pumping now rather than grabbing a leg. The way the legs end up is just weird and hanky though.
 
@J-Boogie said:
Half the time, though, that concern basically boils down to 'There was much more sexy and now there's less!'

Like would there really be this much outrage if T&A wasn't involved?

There's not much to censor that doesn't involve sex, religion, or violence, though. The latter two have been censored in the past (and quite infuriatingly so, too), but not much these days.

I also think that first sentence might be true a lot, but there's nothing necessarily wrong about feeling that way.

I agree with you though that it's Capcoms decision and it makes sense for them to do what they think is best for the series. I guess people are especially ticked off with the whole atmosphere that this topic has had recently, as if it's a sign of the times.
 
Kawalorn said:
Don't be surprised with people reacting strongly to this kind of changes when you have stupid people yelling "sexist" at half the games.

It doesn't make them right though... no matter whether the "games are sexist" crowds have a point or not. So though I'm not surprised, I'm definitely annoyed.

Ultimately, and this is important, issues like these would be muted if there was actually decent representation of a variety of women in games. If you want ass-slaps, then it is as simple as occasionally putting a Kharma in a game instead of an R. Mika (or even better... both!).
 
Spencer said:
Ultimately, and this is important, issues like these would be muted if there was actually decent representation of a variety of women in games.

Depends on where you are. The games I play have all shapes and sizes of characters across a variety of different art styles. Sometimes I feel like this whole debate is outside my entire sphere of fuck-giving, as it mostly deals with mainstream gaming, which is dead or close in my eyes.

Spencer said:
It doesn't make them right though...
I'd argue there's no right or wrong in matters of aesthetics. Either you think the change makes the game more visually compelling/coherent/whatever, or you don't. Any other related topics are outside the context of the game itself, and therefore should not be considered as a reason for or against the change.
 
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CaioLugon said:
probably just a perverted jerk.

Hey, now, I also happen to appreciate fine food and classical music! I'm not just a perverted jerk. :P

Slightly more seriously, Laura's voice acting seems more embarrassing than anything of R. Mika's. Poor character sounds kinda ditzy from the clips I've seen. "Strong, sexy professional" can't be portrayed, but "took a few too many soccer balls to the head" can?

Actually serious this time, has Capcom said anything about their reasons for changing it? I'm actually fairly curious why. This doesn't seem like the Skullgirls pantie frame corrections, which I see as the artistic version of an author releasing a new edition of a book with slightly more consistent grammar- shouldn't be a big deal, and makes the creators and editors happy. Maybe it's a move by Capcom to build controversy and, therefore, press right before release? Hell, if they didn't change that V animation in Mika's super I'd suspect a camera bug instead of anything intentional.
 
The Dave said:
Slightly more seriously, Laura's voice acting seems more embarrassing than anything of R. Mika's. Poor character sounds kinda ditzy from the clips I've seen. "Strong, sexy professional" can't be portrayed, but "took a few too many soccer balls to the head" can?
For some reason, i think i've read this sentence more than once in this thread.

Her japanese VA is not as bad as the american one, but it is still not great, she should have a more deep tone, like, Parasoul's voice or something like that.
 
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Sotherius said:
like, Parasoul's voice or something like that
Yeah, that could sound great! I mean, sure, from the clips I've seen Laura's a vibrant, athletic, energetic, and playful character, but a little deeper, more "tough and disciplined" would be perfect. Maybe kind of like Juri from SFIV? She had a nice balance between energetic, crazy, and disciplined.
 
The Dave said:
Yeah, that could sound great! I mean, sure, from the clips I've seen Laura's a vibrant, athletic, energetic, and playful character, but a little deeper, more "tough and disciplined" would be perfect. Maybe kind of like Juri from SFIV? She had a nice balance between energetic, crazy, and disciplined.
I'm thinking more about the tone, a more deep voice but with the energetic aspect of it.
 
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Kawalorn said:
Well and it doesn't make you right when you imply people are doing it because they want TnA. It's also pretty annoying, except you are actually borderline insulting people here.

That could possibly be because no real arguments are being put forth here outside of *something, something* censorship (. Note that I'm mostly talking about the shoryuken shitshow of a comment thread and not SH since quite literally no arguments are being put forth here, not even the censorship one.

But out of curiosity, what legitimate arguments are there to be made outside of the following?

1) "It looks terrible"
2) "Censorship is bad" aka "I'm mistaking self-censorship as a political issue"
3) "I love boobies"
 
I don't think the issue is big enough for there to be arguments for or against: like I said, you either like the way it looks better now or you don't. I personally don't care either way.

About the censorship thing: perhaps that's the wrong word. More accurately, I think it is more the feeling that Capcom may have capitulated to a "sex-negative" point of view/pressure that's in the air lately as of the constant and escalating feminism/gamergate/whatever nerd-culture nuclear meltdown that's been consuming the internet lately.

I don't see that as any worse* than developers capitulating to casuals and popular trends, which they do all the time to the detriment of their games, so again I don't think it's a big idea and paranoia/the current internet culture war might be blowing it out proportion. I think the last minute change is a bit silly, and the camera angle is a bit awkward, but you can still chalk me up to "meh" about the whole game really.


*Actually scratch that, capitulating to casuals is much worse. It has genuinely ruined many games.
 
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Can we talk about how terrible the camera/animation is on Zangief's CA? You can't really tell what is even going on.
 
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RemiKz said:
Can we talk about how terrible the camera/animation is on Zangief's CA? You can't really tell what is even going on.
Zangief is the protector of Russia's skies and this is how we repay him
 
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IMO, the real problem is that they removed the leg split, not the buttslap.
The split made it feel like a legit wrasslin' move. Taking that away just kinda makes it feel MORE like shallow fan service, since the move ends on a double butt thump with little substance
 
Aaaaand cleanup. Not because I'm taking sides, but because the discussion is getting off topic to the point where people are attacking each other and not even mentioning SFV in their posts anymore so this wouldn't be the place for that discussion anyway.

Please just move on unless you have something relevant and intelligent to say. If you have a problem with the cleanup, hit me up via PM.
 
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Anyways, Karin seems pretty fun
I have a pal that played the beta and he's saying that she's pretty strong right now with a lot of good stuff going on.
 
My problem is with cammy's intro, it was badly done, they just needed to change the camera angle, and it would look great.

With Mika, my problem is with the leg split, it looks worse now.

Now, my real problem is, those things don't really fix anything, they are worthless, it is something that doesn't have a reason to exist, while there are things that would be nice to be fixed, in a similar area of interest.
 
I really want to believe Cammy's intro isn't permanent, I don't care what it does or doesn't show, it just looks fucking awful.
 
Maximilian weighs in on the "censorship"*
Great all-caps click bait title, dood

*if they chose to do it, it isn't censorship.

The whole incident reminds me of the now-deleted Gamespot interviews with Marvel vs. Capcom 3 creators how Felicia was almost cut from the roster because of her "partial nudity." Luckily, no character revision or exemption happened and they still landed that coveted T rating (the ESRB and MPAA are in desperate need of revision).

As already mentioned in the thread, the new camera paths in SFV lessen the impact of the character's motion -- making it look more like mistakes (bad compositions). Other than that aesthetic flaw, I don't have much a problem with it. Let Mika slap her butt. Dan does it. I think it is more of a playful taunt than anything sexual or ratings-derailing.
 
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BallotBoxer said:
Great all-caps click bait title, dood
It's not like you're supposed to expect any different, didn't he make a video about Street Fighter characters he wanted not to get in, which on its own is enough in that direction but had Juri in the thumbnail without her being on the list?
 
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BallotBoxer said:
*if they chose to do it, it isn't censorship.
Yes, it is. It's called self-censorship.

Anyway, I wonder if there are going to be retro costumes for characters other than Ryu and Ken. Or, for that matter, if the retro costumes that are already in will be usable outside of the tutorial.
 
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shoryusatsu999 said:
Yes, it is. It's called self-censorship.

Anyway, I wonder if there are going to be retro costumes for characters other than Ryu and Ken. Or, for that matter, if the retro costumes that are already in will be usable outside of the tutorial.
The fact that they have to add "self" to it implies that it not.

I mean If a woman (or dude I guess) was choosing to wwear a thong or full coverage and decided (after looking in the mirror for a while and maybe asking her husbando/waifu) to go full coverage is that "self-censorship"? No. It's called changing ones mind. People and companies do that. If they feel that they should do something else for whatever reason then it's their decision, plain and simple. Censorship implies outside enforcement.

At worst it can be called an encouraged decision, but it's not censorship.
 
I don't get why different camera angels on girls whose asses are exposed all the time anyway is worth discussing...

...How's everyone feeling about the roster though? I won't mind if it' this small as long as it's tight as hell (ala Skullgirls) at least from a gameplay perspective. Well, besides from definitely missing Dudley and Makoto.
In a non gameplay sense, I find the roster underwhelming and lacking. But games are meant to be played!
 
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FakeangeL said:
The fact that "censorship" is part of the word "self-censorship" shows that it's censorship.

Sigh.
the "self" in self-censorship is a prefix. In other words it's a definition modifier. The had to add to the word in order for it to apply.

It doesnt make sense for the base word to change anything...
 
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