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Street Fighter V

Mike_Z said:
Long version
That's a shame, I rather enjoyed your Xrd write up and your fix list for 3S.
 
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iLoli said:
How so?
If at this current moment, there is nothing about the characters really out, unless one character has overwhelmingly powerful tools can any of them be amazing or awful?
Don't matchups change over time and tech? Neither of which has been invested heavily into this game yet?
"Maybe Karin will progress into a hot mess, but as of now, she's fine".
...yes, sure, you can say that as of now you think you haven't seen a 7-3 or whatnot.
What I MEANT was, you are actually looking at a 7-3, you just don't know it yet. Opinions right now are meaningless long-term, which you got.
 
i think i can translate

"game ain't out yet, we can say shit yet, so don't"
 
But we might as well say shit or we have nothing to talk about (because SF lore is dumb).

I think looking at characters in terms of some absolute tier-list is futile because someone like Pepeday comes along and shows us all that Elf is able to compete. Absolute tier-lists are just too... uncertain.

Now a flexible, relative tier list that takes into account currently known information? A lot more reasonable... in which case we can certainly talk about who's strong right now and who isn't.
 
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Spencer said:
I think looking at characters in terms of some absolute tier-list is futile because someone like Pepeday comes along and shows us all that Elf is able to compete. Absolute tier-lists are just too... uncertain.
Hey look, it's someone who misunderstood what tier lists mean...?
A tier list indicates the LIKELIHOOD of a particular result, given players of the same skill level (generally assumed to be "as high as players can currently get"). 7-3 doesn't mean "gets stomped all the time", it means "on average loses 70% of the time". If someone has a really on day with that character, or those 30% likelihood wins line up, they can get far.
Pepeday or Kuroda winning with a character considered not-high-tier just says something about Pepeday or Kuroda, not the tier placement of the character. The tier placement considers the character's capabilities in comparison to other characters, not a specific player's capability with that character. The absolute tier list for 3s didn't change to move Q higher as a result of Kuroda's victories, because as a character Q still is lacking a lot of things when compared to the rest of the cast.
 
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A tier list means whatever a person wants it to mean to them. They may or may not be correct. But tier lists are no more fixed than anything else.

The ST tier list had shake ups rather recently for how long it's been out.

If people continue to play 3s or marvel even those games which have very highly defined tiers... Are subject to change if even one new thing is learned and incorporated which makes a previously not good character better, or a god tier character perhaps not quite so godlike.


Sometimes execution shakes up tier lists, sometimes it's simply an original thinker thinking outside the box making new use of old moves or more accurate use of old moves.



For me, tier lists are always mutable and simply show a snapshot of the current game state, at the time of the tier list.


Something that a lot of people don't take into account in many kinds of tier lists is that players that main one character, tend to tier there characters bad matchups, higher than normal. That's human nature and most everyone is subject to this kind of bias, whether they perceive it or not.


In xrd the tier list from top player to top player is all over the place. But certain things ring true for most players:


Millia Faust and zato are the highest in general, Potemkin is generally considered the lowest, or very close to that.


Another bias that most tier lists have is regional bias. Not every region will have a top player capable of playing a character to near that characters highest potential. Regions that suffer not having characters represented by high level players will tend to rank those characters lower, and conversely regions tend to rank the best players character, higher on average.

This isn't always a thing, but has tendencies to be a thing and is one reason why any tier list that comes my way gets taken in with a whole bunch of grains of salt.



Tldr:


Tier lists are mutable.
 
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Ca8wffqXIAATGQN.jpg:large

"yes this looks good. this is the art that we want in our game" - someone at capcom
 
OK I thought at first it might have been my imagination, but GODDAMN those arts are really crap.

I mean ever since I saw the Vega one I sensed something wasn't going right.
 
Not all of them are that bad, but holy shit how do you mess up anatomy THAT bad? Her stomach is so thin and seems to coming down from the side of her back, making it look like she's missing a chunk of her stomach XD

I like the artstyle tbh, but a lot of the art feels like there wasn't much quality control :/
 
I don't, for the life of me, understand this artist. These look really weird, and not in a good way.
 
Ruin said:
Ca8wffqXIAATGQN.jpg:large

"yes this looks good. this is the art that we want in our game" - someone at capcom

It wasn't enough to giver the worst story outfit, they make it worse with that crappy art.
I'm thankful the game has a ton of great characters to pick.
 
Hmmmm. In SFV you will be able to beat up Shadaloo Grunts for extra Fight Money...

sfv-extra-battle.jpg

But... what about the car? I NEEDS TO SMASH A CAR! IT WON'T BE STREET FIGHTER WITHOUT KILLING A CAR.
 
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We got some more redesigns of characters, DLC and not. BIG SPOILERS COMIN'.

Balrog:
QEJAzpq.jpg

C Viper:
dZt2H3J.jpg

Oro (seemingly unchanged)
1GCI0jB.jpg


Juri WITH AN EYEPATCH BEST REDESIGN JESUS CHRIST
g1QZ1ZH.jpg

Booby Ninja:
s3xZy6w.jpg

Note that these could also be the DLC characters story outfits, so might not be new default.
 
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I swear, this topic just gets more and more lewd
 
I can't see the pictures at school and I'm very upset

If I see them and they are not as lewd as advertised lawsuits all of you
 
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in all honesty, I like this art more than the one that had too much muscle and vagina elbows.
 
Juri looks so action flick Bond-style villain. It's great.
 
The ending game for Laura: Luffy find her and she join in the strawhat pirates! WO-HOO!
 
I can understand that the art would have a sketchy style to it, but that image of Laura is ridiculous. It is like a cross of One Piece anatomy with the aesthetic quality of a cheap in-between animation frame.
 
again, it's Bengus trying something new.

I kinda like having the weird proportions.
 
His art is just...awful. Like I usually like the anime street fighter pictures, but the ones for SFV are just badly drawn, terrible proportions, weird angles
 
BrandX+ said:
His art is just...awful.
0c7bbffbee47ac3497ab0b79f258855f.jpg

245aedfe4d2c346e60428fdb209bdf38.jpg
Both Bendus

like, i said, I like the disproportionate art. it's nice to see something that's willing to go off model and do unrealistic proportions.
 
Mike_Z said:
Hey look, it's someone who misunderstood what tier lists mean...?
A tier list indicates the LIKELIHOOD of a particular result, given players of the same skill level (generally assumed to be "as high as players can currently get"). 7-3 doesn't mean "gets stomped all the time", it means "on average loses 70% of the time". If someone has a really on day with that character, or those 30% likelihood wins line up, they can get far.
Pepeday or Kuroda winning with a character considered not-high-tier just says something about Pepeday or Kuroda, not the tier placement of the character. The tier placement considers the character's capabilities in comparison to other characters, not a specific player's capability with that character. The absolute tier list for 3s didn't change to move Q higher as a result of Kuroda's victories, because as a character Q still is lacking a lot of things when compared to the rest of the cast.

I know exactly what is meant by a tier list. And in some Socratic ideal, you are 100% correct. But in actuality, that type of tier list is meaningless. When someone says "Chun is top tier coming into launch", we know what that means. When someone says "Chun is top tier... wait and you'll see", we have no clue what that means. Does she come into her own five years from now like Rose did in the hands of Luffy? Or are we wrong about her too and we just need another character to spend another five years learning how to beat Chun to prove that she's low tier. We're speaking so far in the abstract that the data we get from this type of tier list is barely supported, unprovable, and frankly, it isn't useful.

Now speaking about characters relative strengths when compared with knowable information? That's unbelievably useful.

I'm guessing you have him on mute, but Dime said it better in a sentence than I did in my typically over-wordy way.
For me, tier lists are always mutable and simply show a snapshot of the current game state, at the time of the tier list.
 
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unrealistic proportions are whatever but the issue here is that it's fucking ugly for a professional game
none of the art in the game looks anywhere close in quality to some of the other stuff he's done.
The lot of it just looked rushed and terrible

when's shinkiro
 
oh I admit it's not perfect, that's for sure. I just appreciate that it's nice to see an artist try something different.

I like when an artist does something different.
 
well it's different but I think "try" is a giving a lot here
 
See there is a difference between trying something different and being rushed. In this case, he was most likely rushed and the result ended up ugly. It's not stylized, it's not different, it's poorly drawn especially for a professional game like this...

His art in SFV just doesn't match up to quality. It's weird and awkward with a lot of the proportions, poses and angles...
 
in all honesty,I think both are true, he wanted to try something different but was rushed. Bengus even said he was trying something different. and I'm not arguing that it wasn't rushed, I was even the first to assume it was.

I think if he had a chance to give it more polish it could have looked like a very nice unique style to it.

like this
sfv-04_bengusart01.jpg

I think this art looks good tbh.
 
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some of the art looks good others have this weird distortion to the bodies of characters and others look kinda... dumb...

It really is mixed bag here. Who knows...
 
There are problems in the art, while i like when artists try something new, but even if the laura pic was as polished as the chun pic that @SanoBaron just posted, it would still be problematic, but i guess is more of a problem on whoever designed that costume.

But yeah, i wouldn't blame the artist, at least not entirely. But i really enjoy the faces in the most well executed artwork.
 
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