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As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section.
The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.
The second part - not all Dagonians being fish people - is an already-known fact since we know that there are non-fish Ferals that have been called Dagonians. For example, Tom is a salamander/axolotl Dagonian. I think the first part, that not all fish people are Dagonians, is more interesting.
The Umbrella thing is also interesting so I kept it in the screenshot but since it's said in a less clear manner I won't add it to the OP.
Entry added:
- Not all fish people are Dagonians, and not all Dagonians are fish people
I think it fits my own theory that Dagonians refers to a place or a group of people, rather than a term for aquatic Ferals as a whole. Dagon, of course, is a sea god from Lovecraft stories Dagon and The Shadow Over Innsmouth. In the stories, Dagon human followers breed with underwater creatures called the Deep Ones to create hybrid monstrosity that can live in underwater cities. Perhaps there is an entity or a place in the SG universe called Dagon where the Dagonians are connected to or derived from.
New entries:
- The hot secretary lady that appears in the Webtoon and the background of Bunny Burrow is called Evelyn Ivy
- The names of Dahlia's bunnies are:
-- The Timeout Assistant Bunny: Bookie
-- The Shotgun Bunny : Bonnie
-- The Pistol Bunny: Buttercup
-- The Knife Bunny: Killer
When I have the time, I'm also planning to rewrite the intro to the first post a bit to update the status of the official stories which now includes the Webtoon. Also gonna try to make it a bit less bloated.
So while I was doing research for the previous post, I got sidetracked into trying to find the backup of the original "canon lore info thread", since a lot of the older information came from there. The unexpected result of my search is gonna be kinda long so I'm breaking this into several sections. Please bear with me lol.
Background
For people who don't remember it (basically everyone who joined this community less than 9 years ago lol), the Skullheart forum had a huge disaster in 2013 where all the data was completely wiped with no backup made. This means every thread, every comment and even user data were lost forever. That's why even the "oldest" members here have join dates in 2013 even though this forum had been around for longer.
One of these threads was "Big Fat General Lore Discussion - What We Know", which is basically the precursor to this thread (the "What We Know" part in this thread name is a tribute to it). Throughout 2013, we had been collecting lore info that were confirmed by Alex and other devs in that thread. After the forum went down, we were able to recover (some of) the first page through Google Cache, but there were 3 pages of info and most of them were lost forever. Unlike my thread, the OP didn't regularly update the first post with new info, but the worst part is that the first post had all the info archived in spoiler tags, the contents of which didn't get cached by Google, so it would have been pointless anyway!
When I originally made this this thread (or at least the previous version of it before the pre-2021 forum got archived), me and a few other fans basically just had to recall items from memory and regurgitated them into the new thread, but obviously we didn't remember a lot of them and I'd given up that the info were pretty much lost.
The Good News (Kinda)
While I was searching, I actually came across a Japanese fan thread on shitaraba.net (https://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read.cgi/game/54363/1332489387/) (archive URL: https://archive.ph/s9Yd7). It seems that there were English-speaking Japanese fans who were translating what we posted in the Big Fat Lore thread into Japanese for other Japanese fans. These seem to include info from the later pages that I thought had been lost forever. I'm not sure I can quite convey my excitement through text.
So, here they are. I'm not very good at Japanese so I used machine translation and had to edit some wording or spelling.
It's obviously worth to note that these are tertiary sources (translated from Japanese translated from English from forum posts of information confirmed on streams that had been deleted), so the reliability of the info is probably not the highest, but honestly it's not much worse than most of the info already in this thread. Usual disclaimers apply.
- The Medici family once ruled the Kingdom of Canopy, but at some point the Renoirs supplanted them (Already in this thread with slightly different wording)
- [Cerebella] is a circus performer who entertains her fans, pleases her friends, and is devoted to Vitale, the man she loves as her father. (Not significant since it can be pretty much worked out in her bio and story)
- [Cerebella] is a pure and selfless daughter (I think this is supposed to mean young girl), but she ends up benefiting evil. (Same as above)
- If Valentine is an anti-hero who has been driven by her principles, Cerebella is the opposite - she is what we might call an anti-villain. If that's the case, then perhaps it is her destiny to be defeated by Peacock, the hero. (Interesting that Peacock is given example here as the hero)
- The existence of Lab 0 was not made public, and therefore it was possible to conduct unethical experiments. (Already collected)
- Lab 8 specializes in the development of synthetic parasites. Lab 8 specializes in the development of synthetic parasites. (Already collected)
- Parasites are immortal as long as they are parasitic on the host, but they can only live for a short time when they are separated from the host. (Somehow the Parasites being immortal part is not already in this thread even though it's widely known -__-")
- Samson is very bad at keeping his hosts alive. He changes hosts often." (I could have sworn I already had this info in this thread but apparently it's not)
- Hunger eats anything, but spicy food is his favorite. (Already collected)
- Feng is 17 years old. (Already collected)
- It was King Franz who put an end to Queen Nancy. (Already known)
- It is undetermined whether Franz's umbrella is the umbrella of death or the umbrella of conquest. (Already known)
- Yu-wan has a brother named Shumai. (Already collected)
- Adam's last name is Kapowski. (Already collected)
- It is no coincidence that both Isaac and Aeon can manipulate time; they are related.
- The fact that the Lab 8 kid was in danger or that the big band needed help is the story of Ileum. Ileum's story is that she decides to join the fight.
- Aeon's torso can rotate.
- The details of Panzerfaust's past have yet to be established. (Sorta outdated due to SGM main story)
- The mother goddess may also have a parasite, but Alex was not forthcoming.
- Annie has beaten Skullgirl in the past. She has also drawn with double.
- Black Dahlia and Ottomo are both major figures in the mafia. (Already known)
- Black Dahlia is not very fond of Ottomo, but they have a good [working?] relationship.
- Patricia has also worked as a maid. (Outdated as discussed in previous post)
- Marie is 14 years old. (Outdated)
- According to official information, synthetic parasites are extremely difficult to mass produce. Natural parasites are impossible to reproduce.
- As long as they are parasitic on humans, they can live semi-permanently, but they cannot produce offspring. Samson, for example, has a big appetite but no sex drive.
- The production team said Hungern is more powerful than Krieg, which is why Parasoul gave Hungern to Umbrella. (More-or-less outdated as of Umbrella's story establishing the reason why Hungern was given to her)
- Parasoul is called the Warrior Princess of Steel. However, compared to Valentine, she is not as fierce. (Kind of weird term {鋼鉄戦姫 - machine translated to warrior princess of steel}. Without the original English I'm not too comfortable to use it)
- There used to be several ninja nurse units, but all but the Last Hope have already disappeared.
- This is because the transplantation of synthetic parasites is extremely dangerous, and the mortality rate of the patient is high.
- In contrast to Lab 0, Lab 8 is often regarded as a benign entity. They may be mad scientists after all. (?)
- According to the official information derived from the live broadcast, theonite is a kind of element. (Already collected)
- One of the original ASG labs was [inspired by] the CIA's MK Ultra project, specifically Lab 7. That's the department where Valentine and Brain Drain were from.
- Umbrellas are 10-11 years old (Already confirmed)
- Leduc is 14-16 years old (Possibly outdated since newer info says he's "about 16")
- The grand war lasted about 10 years before it ended 7 years ago. (Already known)
- Hurting is not a Living weapon, but a very sturdy chair. (Already collected)
- Grendel's mother and Scythana are not related.
- At least Delilah was a very important host for Samson, he said. (Already collected)
- Alex thinks that "Valentine" is a code name and that her real name is Valerie. However, he is not sure and will reconsider. (Outdated since Valentine's real name is confirmed)
A lot of these info are probably things you might have seen floating around the fandom before. Most likely they were also independently collected from the old thread or the original streams, I just hadn't verified them previously.
If anyone is good with Japanese, please feel free to check the thread and let me know if anything is not accurate or if I have missed anything.
New Info added to OP
Based on the above and comparing with what I already have on this thread, I will be adding the below entries to the first post. There are some entries I'm quite sure about since they have been collaborated by English-speaking fans, so I'm marking the ones that don't seem as well-collaborated with notes so people can make their own decisions:
Filia & Samson:
- Samson is very bad at keeping his hosts alive. He changes hosts often.
- Since Parasites cannot produce offsprings, Samson, for example, has a big appetite but no sex drive. (Achieved from old lore thread by Japanese community)
Cerebella:
- If Valentine is an anti-hero who has been driven by her principles, Cerebella is the opposite - she is what we might call an anti-villain. If that's the case, then perhaps it is her destiny to be defeated by Peacock, the hero. (Achieved from old lore thread by Japanese community)
Annie:
- Annie has fought Double to a stalemate
Black Dahlia:
- Black Dahlia is not very fond of Ottomo, but they have a good [working?] relationship. (Achieved from old lore thread by Japanese community)
Isaac:
- It is no coincidence that both Isaac and Aeon can manipulate time; they are connected. (Achieved from old lore thread by Japanese community)
Ileum:
- Ileum's story is that she decides to join the fight, as the Lab 8 kids are in danger or that Big Band needs help (Achieved from old lore thread by Japanese community)
Scythana:
- Grendel's mother and Scythana are not related. (Achieved from old lore thread by Japanese community)
Aeon:
- Aeon's torso can rotate (Achieved from old lore thread by Japanese community)
Parasites:
- Parasites are immortal as long as they are connected to a host, but cannot produce offsprings
- Synthetic Parasites are extremely difficult to mass produce. Natural Parasites are impossible to reproduce. (Achieved from old lore thread by Japanese community)
- The transplantation of Synthetic Parasites is extremely dangerous, and the mortality rate of the patient is high. (Achieved from old lore thread by Japanese community)
The Trinity:
- The Mother goddess may also have a Parasite, but Alex was not forthcoming with details. (Achieved from old lore thread by Japanese community)
ASG Labs:
- There used to be several ninja nurse units, but all but the Last Hope have already disappeared (Achieved from old lore thread by Japanese community)
- In contrast to Lab 0, Lab 8 is often regarded as a benign entity (Achieved from old lore thread by Japanese community)
- Lab 7 was inspired by the CIA's MK Ultra experiment
A bit of cool info revealed last week I didn't get around to posting, so here it is.
Adding to Fortune's entry on the first post:
- The names of the Fishbone Gang members are Eli (the eel with an apron), Toady (pufferfish with bandana), Sinker (eyepatch guy with hook on his lip), Leon (open shirt guy) and Nadia
EDIT: As BallotBoxer pointed out, the Webtoon spells the pufferfish's name as "Toady", which should be the correct spelling since it appears in the story. So we'll go with that unless later stated otherwise.
The names of the Fishbone Gang members are Eli (the eel with an apron), Toadie (pufferfish with bandana), Sinker (eyepatch guy with hook on his lip), Leon (open shirt guy) and Nadia
Can't believe I lived to see that information. Really.
The Fishbone Gang, from left to right: Leon = lionfish Dagonian Eli = eel Dagonian (maybe part catfish? look at those long barbels) Toady = pufferfish Dagonian Sinker = piranha Dagonian Nadia = feline Feral
Note: Cellsai called him "Toadie" but the webtoon has "Toady." Which should we go with?
The Fishbone Gang, from left to right: Leon = lionfish Dagonian Eli = eel Dagonian (maybe part catfish? look at those long barbels) Toady = pufferfish Dagonian Sinker = piranha Dagonian Nadia = feline Feral
Nice! I was trying to identify Leon and Sinker's fish species but couldn't figure it out at first glance. Seem to be correct to me. Sinker is the only one I'm not 100% sure about because his body shape is generic enough that it could fit with something else.
Eli is definitely meant to be an eel especially given his name, but yeah, the barbels are very catfish like. Very similar to Yu-Wan's who is a catfish Dagonian, and he's even wearing an apron. Perhaps they are related?
I'm willing to cash in on the "Eli = eel" idea, but I'd like to complicate matters by pointing out that there is such thing as "eel-tail catfish", and they do have barbels.
There are also "cusk-eels" (which are not "true" eels, apparently), some species of which share the trait of barbels too.
I'm willing to cash in on the "Eli = eel" idea, but I'd like to complicate matters by pointing out that there is such thing as "eel-tail catfish", and they do have barbels.
There are also "cusk-eels" (which are not "true" eels, apparently), some species of which share the trait of barbels too.
Hmm interesting. I looked them up and cusk-eels are definitely a possibility since they actually do have long bodies sort of like a true eel. Eel-tail catfish though just look like a catfish with a different tail lol, so that's probably not it.
But yeah, Eli = Eel definitely makes sense from the SG-style naming scheme. Same with Leon = Lionfish (Leon actually meaning lion in Greek). A toadie or a toadfish is a type of pufferfish so that also makes sense (note that the spelling is the same that Cellsai used, not his name as spelled in the Webtoon lol).
Sinker is the only one whose name doesn't seem to link back to his species, as I think it refers to the fishing equipment. Or... maybe it does? Perhaps he's supposed to be some sort of bottom feeder fish, and "sinker" refers to the fact they stay close to the bottom of the water.
The physical copy is in Japanese but it also comes with a digital copy in English. Using EMS shipping option, it arrived to my place in SEA within a couple of weeks, and the buying experience on the website was very smooth.
So you might be wondering what the hell this has to do with lore. Well, the book has an exclusive interview with Alex Ahad, where he actually reveals a couple of lore tidbits that had never been revealed publicly anywhere else before. Apart from the cool fanarts printed on very high quality paper, you also get that, as well as an exclusive interview with Kira Buckley.
Since I got my copy, I have been two-minded about whether I should post the lore info on this thread or not. On one hand, it is publicly revealed info, but on the other, it's printed exclusively in the artbook, and the interview was one of the reasons I decided to get it. It's a very good product and I do want to support the artists by encouraging people to buy it.
After some thought, I decided that I'll wait a couple more months and let people have a chance to get the book themselves and read the interview first-hand, if they are interested, then I'll post the info here later.
Finally, it's worth to note that Alex isn't involved with Skullgirls development anymore, and any information he reveals might not be reflected in the current version of the lore, which he himself said as much in the interview. As with any other info found on this thread, things are always subject to change, so they need to be taken with a touch of caution. But it's still very interesting to see the intention and evolution of the stories and characters, even if they become outdated.
I love Kuroirozuki, but damn he saved me a little trouble if he put the English translations (or de-translations) in the book instead of the digital only.
I love Kuroirozuki, but damn he saved me a little trouble if he put the English translations (or de-translations) in the book instead of the digital only.
I guess printing the book in both Japanese and English or having separate versions would have cost them more money. The artbook was probably primarily intended for the Japanese fanbase so they decided to go with Japanese as the primary version.
But yeah, having the digital version is actually useful for me because I can easily refer back to it for the interviews, and not needing to pull out the book to reread it lol.
Cool lore drop related to Panzerfaust. Not super unexpected since we've seen concept arts of several Panzer-like soldiers, but it's good to have it confirmed that it still exists in the lore.
New entry added under Panzerfaust
- Panzerfaust is the specific name to the character who hangs out with Parasoul, but there are other surviving tank-handed soldiers with their own names. The original draft for Squigly's Origin Story actually featured a different one, but it was changed to Panzerfaust to avoid confusion with introducing another NPC
So this was something confirmed a while ago and it's one of those things that I thought was already obvious so not something I need to document. But It was recently pointed out to me that this fact is not as obvious to everyone else as it is to me, so I'm adding it to the list.
New item added under the Skull Heart:
- Skullgirls always manifest every 7 years, but the Skull Heart can appear before that. Which is why Queen Nancy was carrying it for years before she turned into the Skullgirl
Note: the forum seems to be having some issues and I can't update the second post
I'll post this here too, it's filled with a few tidbits of (mostly) outdated information of marie's backstory and concept in general.
Interesting thing to note is that Alex confirmed that the shadow in Marie's second phase was intended to be Lamia/The Mother.
And neat that Alex confirmed my assumptions that the end of Eliza's story with Marie reviving was not quite to be taken 100% seriously.
I'll post this here too, it's filled with a few tidbits of (mostly) outdated information of marie's backstory and concept in general.
Interesting thing to note is that Alex confirmed that the shadow in Marie's second phase was intended to be Lamia/The Mother.
And neat that Alex confirmed my assumptions that the end of Eliza's story with Marie reviving was not quite to be taken 100% seriously.
Lol cool so he posted it himself. This is the Alex interview that I mentioned a couple of weeks back that's in the fan artbook. That saves me a lot of time.
Will be adding the info to this thread soon when I have time.
I'll post this here too, it's filled with a few tidbits of (mostly) outdated information of marie's backstory and concept in general.
Interesting thing to note is that Alex confirmed that the shadow in Marie's second phase was intended to be Lamia/The Mother.
And neat that Alex confirmed my assumptions that the end of Eliza's story with Marie reviving was not quite to be taken 100% seriously.
Okay, finally getting around to updating this thread for the Alex interview for Kuroirozuki.
As Alex himself said in this interview, he is no longer involved with SG and therefore any info he gives is potentially outdated, which isn't really any different from any other info given outside the game. Use your judgement.
The shadow that comes out of the Skull Heart in boss Marie's second form is that of Lamia (or the "Mother") that Venus and Aeon refers to - you can see she has the crown on her head as well (Note: we previously knew about Double's crown shape being based on Lamia's from her character design sheet - this entry is notable because it appears to contradict Kai's previous Q&A with Alex that Lamia and the Mother are not the same person. Whether this was because Kai misunderstood Alex, or Alex was intentionally misleading Kai, or Alex changed his mind, or that the identity of the Mother is more complex than can be explained simply without giving too many spoilers; is unclear)
Marie's cause of death, connected to the reason her age was listed as 13 (12 at death) in her Limited Run booklet bio, was that, after being offered the Skull Heart by Double while she was still alive, Marie then tries to save Patricia and the other orphans from the slave traders, but is shot in the back with a shotgun. This is why her back is open. After this, she then comes back as a fully activated Skullgirl and begins her path of revenge and destruction, following the trail to New Meridian
Marie was the only Skullgirl design by Alex that had blue flames and an exposed Skull Heart. Alex said that it is interesting that the blue flame was only present on Marie. Perhaps it is Marie's burning spirit, resilient to the Skull Heart as much as it can be, which makes for a weaker Skullgirl, but a stronger conviction (Note: The current design of Selene used in Squigly's Origin Story, made after Alex left Lab Zero, has the blue flame as well, so this may not be true anymore)
The reason for Marie's resurrection at the end of Eliza's story could be partially related to her determination and fighting spirit, although there was also a certain joke aspect to it that is so absurd and abrupt. Since Eliza was likely to be the last playable character, and because Alex likes her, he wanted to tell Eliza's story as much as possible (Note: Worth noting that Eliza wasn't the planned final playable character at the time, but she was already planned to be followed by Beowulf and Robo-Fortune. Maybe Alex just didn't really like them as much and didn't consider their stories as important to tell.)
Marie's surname, Korbel, was just a surname selected to line up with what her nationality should be. Her hometown, Rommelgrad, should be based more on Eastern Europe, but it was actually kind of all over the place
Edit: made an edit to the point on the third note. Thanks to Mr. Corbi on Discord for pointing it out.
Also, in light of the above, I'm also updating the following old entries with new notes:
The Mother is, apparently, not Lamia, or at the very least, not the same person in the way we'd normally comprehend it. The mother is an ancient God, but past that, it is unclear. (NightPhyre's understanding from Alex's explanation: I believe that Lamia was something of an, "immortal," queen, with her power being derived from the Skull Heart/The Mother in some fashion.) (Update: Based on newer interviews and information, it does not seem like the situation is straightforward and there are times where Lamia and the Mother is referred to practically as the same person. Whether this was because Kai misunderstood Alex, or Alex was intentionally misleading Kai, or Alex changed his mind, or that the truth about the Mother is more complex than can be explained simply without giving too many spoilers; is unclear)
Additionally, based on Dahlia's story, I added another note to another old entry per below. Spoiler for Black Dahlia's story, as it goes without saying:
The order of creation of the known ASG members are Black Dahlia, Brain Drain, Geiger, Big Band, Ileum, Hive, Leduc, Peacock and Painwheel, respectively. Dahlia was the first but was under a different context. Big Band and Ileum are from the same generation before the Grand War. Hive and Leduc were introduced around the same time. Peacock came a bit later. Painwheel was developed in Lab 0 in tandem with Peacock. The latter 2 are the latest ASG units. (Update: While this confirmation seems to indicate that Brain Drain and Dr. Victor Geiger are 2 separate people, Dahlia's story seems to heavily imply that they are the same person. Whether this is because Alex was intentionally misleading us, or the current devs changed the lore so they are the same person, or there is a more complicated situation going on similar to Double/Lamia/Mother; is unclear.)
Lastly, it's worth to note that there are a lot more information in the interview that I didn't include above as they are not directly related to canon information, so I highly encourage everyone who can to support Kuroirozuki and the other contributors by directly purchasing the artbook and checking it out. The link is still available here.
Prior to this, I had thought that Alex was no longer talking about SG lore or past development, at least publicly, so this had been a huge pleasant surprise and I truly appreciate Kuroirozuki for having set it up.
One very important thing from the interview that I didn't include above but I think is worth mentioning is related to Hilgard's Orphanage, which, according to Marie's bio, was the orphanage she and Patricia used to live in. Presumably, Hilgard was the guy who ran the orphanage. Before this, we had no idea what he looked like, but the interview article actually showed a recreation of a sketch by Alex from back in 2006.
To give context, Marie's old lore was that she was a maid working for an old man who lived alone in a mansion. Alex confirms in the interview that the old man was Hilgard. Hilgard makes a wish on the Skull Heart which turned the closest woman, Marie, into the Skullgirl.
So, this is what Hilgard looked like:
The thing that stands out the most to me is that he seems to be wielding an old version of Todd, before it was redesigned into a Living Weapon umbrella. Presumably, if Hilgard still exists in the current lore, he's not gonna be using that weapon anymore. Probably a good chance he will look different from this sketch too.
The other thing that stood out to me as well is the crest on his cloak. Took me a while, but then I realised where I had seen it before.
golgatha ruins? you mean lamia doomed kingdom was a stage in the past outside of gehenna?
Yeah. There was also an old subplot where Marie was supposed to travel to the temple of the Skullgirls in order to complete her pilgrimage, so this might have something to do with it, considering all the skulls.
So, some more fun lore drops. I had a brief discussion with Kuroirozuki on Discord, and he revealed that he has had other conversations with Alex throughout the years, particularly about the lore and trivia around Marie. These include email conversations and information given verbally. He kindly provided a screenshot of the email he got from Alex on April 1st (lol) 2014. Obviously there are no documentations for their verbal communications but I don't have any good reason to doubt the information.
So yeah, the same disclaimer applies for the Alex interview from the artbook. Since Alex isn't involved in SG development anymore, it's likely that many of the lore stuff are no longer valid (actually confirmed by Cellsai later in the conversation). As usual, they are all collected and changes or notes will be added accordingly when new canon information is revealed that contradict older information.
Lore-related stuff:
- The flame of the Skull Heart is "spiritual" and cannot burn anything
[Note: I think that ties to the scene in Parasoul's story where she grabs the Skull Heart with her hand without much reaction]
- Marie still has body heat, but may be lower than other people
[Note: I'm going for a closer wording to what Alex wrote in the email screenshot rather than what Kuroirozuki wrote]
- The Skull Heart is not a fan of water, but not afraid of it, so Marie can take a bath
[Note: funnily proven in her bubble throw frame - wonder if this was a lore that Alex told the current staff or they came up with it independently]
- The vacuum cleaner is Marie's favourite thing since the orphanage
- Marie was in the orphanage for several years
- The skulls she wears on her head are not real skulls [Note: I assume he meant that they are decorations created magically, presumably similarly to the skull on Squigly's chest]
- Marie is good at music
- The veins from Marie's Skull Heart can be touched [Note: I assume this veins projecting from the Heart on her back are physical things that could be touched]
- Marie can survive the battle at the Cathedral and one of these possibilities will come into play a little further down the road. There is no doubt she will become a more important character in the future
[Note: Translated from the email. I guess this is also already proven with her story mode teaser]
Trivia stuff:
- When Alex first drew Boss Marie's animation, there was an animation that showed she has the same drawers as Peacock, but he deleted it because the animation was unnatural. As a result, Marie was the first character animation at the time that didn't have visible underwear.
[Note: To be fair because of the nature of Ms. Fortune's shorts, I don't think she had visible underwear either, but I guess I can see what he meant.
Above lore stuff will be added to Marie's entry on the first post.
EDIT: Some further analysis on the Alex email:
So apart from the other lore reveals, Alex also sent a "beta" version of Marie's bio to Kuroirozuki. There are some interesting differences:
- Age note "12 at death" was not yet listed
- Her beta bio states her zodiac sign as Aries. Interestingly, early versions of other launch characters also listed zodiac signs, but they were not listed in the "final" versions that can be found on the official site after the game's release (although some of them are still found in foreign-language bios - something I documented in an earlier post in this thread). Interestingly, this bio was being written in 2014 and still includes this information
- At that point her height was not determined yet - Alex simply noted that she is shorter than Filia and taller than Peacock
- Both her weight and 3-sizes in the final version are lower than in this beta version
- Her Likes were Tidiness, pie (not included in the final version), Rommelgrad, childen (not included in the final version, perhaps changed to "Innocence"?), old traditions (not included in the final version), Patricia; and Alex noted that they would add more later. I find "pie" being removed the most interesting. In the final version, her food likes are apples and jam and jellies instead. However, I have seen several Japanese fanart of Marie eating pie, so it seems like this may have been information that had already been shared in the Japanese fanbase
- Her Dislikes were the Medici, war, weapons, the Skull Heart and powerlessness. Pretty much the same with the final version having a few more entries.
- The flame of the Skull Heart is "spiritual" and cannot burn anything
[Note: I think that ties to the scene in Parasoul's story where she grabs the Skull Heart with her hand without much reaction]
hmm interesting although it seems that when wielder by the skullgirls thoses flames can burn things like what happened with the medici goons
- Gigans are vaguely themed on Japanese Oni, so their armours are inspired by designs from that region, despite being close to European/American-based Canopy Kingdom. While Gilgamesh's armour is more Mongol than Japanese, it's possible that different factions or groups would have different armour designs
He didn't really elaborate on this in the channel so it's kinda up to interpretation here
- Avery (the bird) is "technically" a super powerful computer that may help Peacock process complex calculations needed for her ability
Been quiet lately while we wait for Marie's story mode, so here's something relatively minor that was said the other day.
Entry added for Eliza:
- Eliza isn't actually made of blood, she drinks blood and convert to a blood-looking stuff that she is made of. This is similar to how Samson is actually made of stuff that looks like hair but isn't actually hair
More stuff that came up in Discord the other day, including some rather interesting stuff about the River King.
Added the following entries:
Little Innsmouth and Dagonians:
Dagon is a place, and Dagonians are "from" Dagon, but not in the sense that all Dagonians directly immigrated from there. This is similar to how some people in real life may claim to be from a certain country, despite the fact that they may not have been born there and could be several generations away from direct contact with that country. Dagonians are people who declare as having Dagonian heritage
The River King doesn't run, or has anything to do with, the River King Casino
The Canopy Kingdom:
The details around the physical appearance of the River King Casino isn't fully nailed down. Some of it may be underwater, but the ceiling dome seen in the stage is likely not underwater but just painted to look like it is. The main detail that was decided as seen in the Webtoon is that a rode runs directly through the building and the lobby from the playable stage is accessible by foot from there
The Casino is up against the river (similar to what is seen in the SGM story map). It is hard to see from the Streets of New Meridian stage, but if you pull apart the layers of the stage, there is some wiggle room to place it by the river. However; the SGM story map is completely wrong and is not intended to be an accurate map, it's intended to just highlight all the important locations
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So, the thing about the River King is definitely interesting. I have always assumed incorrectly that the casino has something to do with him because of the name. Based on this fact, I think it's 99% safe to assume that it is owned and run completely by the Medici.
Dagon being a place has always been something I have suspected, because in Lovecraftian lore which is the reference material for the name, it is an underwater city as well. Good to have it confirmed for sure though!
More details about the Casino is also welcome, even if a lot of it is still vague by design. Definitely something I need to update my New Meridian map analysis about too.
Not immediately relevant, but I feel this begets a question:
For what purpose were the River Kings daughters taken then (assuming this kidnapping is actually canonically significant)?
Firstly, I think the revelation that Dagonians are proclaiming to be from Dagon, despite many not having direct connection with the city, leads to another potential implication - perhaps the "River King's Daughters" are just proclaiming to be his children? Like how those who believe in Abrahamic religions might proclaim themselves to be sons of Adam and daughters of Eve?
But yeah, I'm pretty sure the kidnapping of the River King's daughters is supposed to be a canonically significant event, given the prominence in Fortune's story and how it was left as a cliffhanger, and it is also supposed to introduce Irvin who seems to be an important character in the future.
That said, do we know anything about the River King?
At this point, very little. All the information I can gather that are related to him would be:
- He appears to be a whale Feral/Dagonian (based on the latest revelation about Dagonians, I dunno if he would claim to be one), per the statue in the Casino stage, and the old sketch by Alex
- He appeared in the "villains" sketch by Alex, so presumably he is, or at least was intended to take, a villain role in the story
- Minette and other Dagonian girls in Little Innsmouth are or claim to be, or are believed to be, his daughters
- Apparently he does not have anything to do with the River King Casino, so presumably the Medici are appropriating his name and image for the casino. For whatever reason, it is unclear, or why he would allow it, or if he has any choice
- Given there is a large river running through New Meridian, the River in his name most likely refer to that river, so he is most likely a local figure
The distances between the Canopy Kingdom, the Gigan Nation and the Chess Kingdom are roughly the equivalent of the distances between Europe, Russia and the Middle East. They are separated by No Man's Land.
Do you by any chance have the citation for where this comes from? In general I'd reeeeally like to see your citations for most of the stuff presented in the thread, because while I do greatly appreciate having all these lore details that normally would be hard to acquire, the desire for ethos and confirmation via citations is strong lol.
Do you by any chance have the citation for where this comes from? In general I'd reeeeally like to see your citations for most of the stuff presented in the thread, because while I do greatly appreciate having all these lore details that normally would be hard to acquire, the desire for ethos and confirmation via citations is strong lol.
Most of the original sources are lost media, unfortunately. The original thread which had real-time conversations when the information was originally obtained was lost in the 2013 forum crash, and most of the confirmations were made by the devs (mostly Alex) verbally during Twitch streams, most of which have been deleted. Some old sources can be tracked down after the fact, but it's tricky.
Honestly I understand your point and I did not originally think to archive the sources since I figured that since they were confirmed by Alex, we could just ask him to reconfirm the information. I did not expect that he would be fired from his own game lol.
Anyway, as you can see in the newer information, I have tried to document all the sources for them. But for older information, it's just too late to find the original sources, for the most part.
EDIT: If it helps, that particular information was confirmed by Alex in a Salty Cupcakes stream in November 2013, as originally discussed here
We don't have a cultural basis on the Dragon Kingdom, while Selene is not an Asian name in our world, Western names are still used in such areas and really shouldn't be a grounds for nationality, I mean damn I have the most Rural European name and none of my family is from such areas. Yeah same...
Most of the original sources are lost media, unfortunately. The original thread which had real-time conversations when the information was originally obtained was lost in the 2013 forum crash, and most of the confirmations were made by the devs (mostly Alex) verbally during Twitch streams, most of which have been deleted. Some old sources can be tracked down after the fact, but it's tricky.
Honestly I understand your point and I did not originally think to archive the sources since I figured that since they were confirmed by Alex, we could just ask him to reconfirm the information. I did not expect that he would be fired from his own game lol.
Anyway, as you can see in the newer information, I have tried to document all the sources for them. But for older information, it's just too late to find the original sources, for the most part.
EDIT: If it helps, that particular information was confirmed by Alex in a Salty Cupcakes stream in November 2013, as originally discussed here
We don't have a cultural basis on the Dragon Kingdom, while Selene is not an Asian name in our world, Western names are still used in such areas and really shouldn't be a grounds for nationality, I mean damn I have the most Rural European name and none of my family is from such areas. Yeah same...
skullheart.com
Honestly, I'm insanely thrilled to even know what it came from even if I gotta scrounge the internet for lost media haha. Thank you so much, not just for helping me out, but making and maintaining this thread. It's a godsend to a Skullgirls fanatic like me lol.
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