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The Unofficial Official Beta Discussion Thread

SonicFox

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Unknown Robo Fortune Filia
With Umbrella most likely being released into beta soon, chances are we are going to get another opportunity at discussing balance changes in a unified front again.

So it's worth gathering thoughts around from the community again for Liam and the other devs to read.

I definitely have some changes that I wanna discuss with everyone as well, but I'll personally be saving those posts for when we're closer to Umbrella's release into beta/for when she's released, but that shouldn't stop anyone from thinking of potential balance, QOL, and accessibility changes.


In the meantime, if you got anything you wanna talk about, let's discuss!

1635495091776.png
 
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rznant

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I don't actually have any qualms with Robo's current iteration -- 5HK becoming slightly safer (but still unsafe!) on block and the addition of Homing Directory was REALLY nice! She got the dust jump she deserved and M Danger is a part of (some) optimal routing now.

Her install is something I won't comment much on since I haven't learned to pilot it well enough, and I don't want to make claims of it being over- or under-tuned.
I think making her, essentially, the best character in the game for a limited amount of time, at the cost of heads and unrecoverable health is a nice trade-off -- you're trying to balance between "please don't touch me I'm trying to gain heads here" and "you will die as soon as I get in."
Access to airdash enables some nasty mix and suddenly people have to deal with IAD jMP... or jMK, LOL.

I really don't think Robo needs to be changed at all this cycle but I want to know if I'm capping or not for asking for extra buffs on the top.

So, can we get like, 10 frames of recovery taken off of her tag-in? I really wish it was easier to hard-tag or combo into it without having to spend OTG or use stagger.


Anyway, I know everyone collectively went "Hey, this is a little too good, actually" in Beta and reverted the L/M Beam hitbox buffs but would anyone have any issues with... bringing it back? She doesn't need it, FYI, but oh man, it felt good.


EDIT: Also, can we please get infinite install option for both PW and robo in the lab?
 
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MadWolfDead

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I've been loving Umbrella and the beta so far and I only have 2 things to suggest for the game
I think Umbrella's 5mp assist should be the x2 button press version, it'd provide characters with some cool routes and with it changing in different hunger modes, it could end up being a really dynamic and cool 4-assists-in-one package deal with it either being a lockdown assist or an attack with a lot of hit stun, depending on the hunger level. Even if it doesn't end up being an amazing assist, it's nice to have. We got Annie Knuckle x2, can we get this?
:PUN:

The second suggestion is a simple buffer on Beowulf's EX throws, sometimes I feel like I pressed both buttons on the same frame but I get the normal version of the move instead, this is ESPECIALLY a problem with cold hands, and I know I'm not alone in that one. I don't know exactly if it would be feasible but just a simple 2 frames would be enough.
 
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Liam

. . .
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I've been loving Umbrella and the beta so far and I only have 2 things to suggest for the game
I think Umbrella's 5mp assist should be the x2 button press version, it'd provide characters with some cool routes and with it changing in different hunger modes, it could end up being a really dynamic and cool 4-assists-in-one package deal with it either being a lockdown assist or an attack with a lot of hit stun, depending on the hunger level. Even if it doesn't end up being an amazing assist, it's nice to have. We got Annie Knuckle x2, can we get this?

Umbrella feedback is probably better suited for this thread, FYI =)
 
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Stuff

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Painwheel Robo Fortune Ms. Fortune
My top problems with SG are as follows (I don't play the game anymore so don't mind me, my opinion shouldn't matter much):

1. It's really easy to autopilot in this game because it's also a very good strategy

2. Inputs randomly drop (have had this issue for this game only for years and frankly I think it's been at its worse since the Annie patch)
edit: I've played the game on linux and oddly enough I feel my inputs are better on it, not sure why maybe it's a weird confirmation bias or maybe windows is a big stinky

3. Getting a hit gives the opponent more meter than you do which lets them go into autopilot for free (I realize it's like this to promote resetting but you gotta combo eventually and it really sucks for those characters that are below average in meter gain and also traditionally speaking the more tends to go to the person who's hitting the other person, not the other way around)

4. Some characters still just have assists that have tons more utility than other characters do (on top of being some of the best characters in the game)

5. I think characters get waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much reward for doing an invuln move and some of them even have virtually no risk and only the reward to be gotten [such as H chair where the only draw back is that beo is now at a slight frame disadvantage and doesn't have his chair {which isn't necessarily bad, he still has very good active forever normals and now he can recall his chair} whereas when it hits he only has things to gain] (In general I think characters get way too much for doing literally anything but since this is a versus game I figure that's the norm)

6. I think some safe DHCs are really dumb and extremely validating (ssj to install is insanely stupid and easy to win from I almost wish everyone had an option similar enough or not at all)

side note: I think Big Band's parry is too lenient and could lend to making him theoretically the best character in the game, maybe in the future.

I don't want to stir anything as I doubt anything I say will really change anything in the grand scheme of things, personally speaking I think top tiers should stay about the same, everyone should get meter buffs and perhaps even more useful tools though I cannot specify what because I don't appear to share the same opinions on this game as others do.

I really like this game but stuff like that really dampers the entire game for me, it doesn't feel rewarding to punish the same thing over and over, it's really boring and when the dumb thing finally works against you, it's really frustrating [I genuinely feel gaslit] to the point I'd consider it bad for my health lol.

Also, don't buff Fukua, don't nerf Fortune, buff Painwheel, thanks.

((give me M pinion = H Hairball [this will never happen]))

Also I'll try my best not to respond to anything, as I don't really want to deal with this sort of stuff anymore, I just figured I'd say my piece and hope for the best. I realize what I want for this game does not even remotely reflect what everyone else wants lmao. But I play(ed) this game too so I figure it's gotta count for something. *shrug*

EDIT: I forgot to add that I feel that throws are by far the worst reset choice being the most risky but you very clearly don't get as much from them than other resets but also this has resulted in a meta where taking the throw ain't that bad so you just take them (unless it's beo or any character that actually can capitalize from throwing.) At least that's how I feel and it often feels like even though this is the best option if your opponent is very good at blocking it doesn't lead to much and the high scaling leads into high meter gain for your opponent so you have to do the worst option then immediate get out of it so that it doesn't get worse or learn a near impossible to block 25/25/25/25 mixup. (Though I figure, like with most things, it's just a personal problem so no worries just again wanted to at least say something rather than nothing, sorry.)
 
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Nuuance

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Squigly Eliza
My top problems with SG are as follows (I don't play the game anymore so don't mind me, my opinion shouldn't matter much):

1. It's really easy to autopilot in this game because it's also a very good strategy

2. Inputs randomly drop (have had this issue for this game only for years and frankly I think it's been at its worse since the Annie patch)
edit: I've played the game on linux and oddly enough I feel my inputs are better on it, not sure why maybe it's a weird confirmation bias or maybe windows is a big stinky

3. Getting a hit gives the opponent more meter than you do which lets them go into autopilot for free (I realize it's like this to promote resetting but you gotta combo eventually and it really sucks for those characters that are below average in meter gain and also traditionally speaking the more tends to go to the person who's hitting the other person, not the other way around)

4. Some characters still just have assists that have tons more utility than other characters do (on top of being some of the best characters in the game)

5. I think characters get waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much reward for doing an invuln move and some of them even have virtually no risk and only the reward to be gotten [such as H chair where the only draw back is that beo is now at a slight frame disadvantage and doesn't have his chair {which isn't necessarily bad, he still has very good active forever normals and now he can recall his chair} whereas when it hits he only has things to gain] (In general I think characters get way too much for doing literally anything but since this is a versus game I figure that's the norm)

6. I think some safe DHCs are really dumb and extremely validating (ssj to install is insanely stupid and easy to win from I almost wish everyone had an option similar enough or not at all)

side note: I think Big Band's parry is too lenient and could lend to making him theoretically the best character in the game, maybe in the future.

I don't want to stir anything as I doubt anything I say will really change anything in the grand scheme of things, personally speaking I think top tiers should stay about the same, everyone should get meter buffs and perhaps even more useful tools though I cannot specify what because I don't appear to share the same opinions on this game as others do.

I really like this game but stuff like that really dampers the entire game for me, it doesn't feel rewarding to punish the same thing over and over, it's really boring and when the dumb thing finally works against you, it's really frustrating [I genuinely feel gaslit] to the point I'd consider it bad for my health lol.

Also, don't buff Fukua, don't nerf Fortune, buff Painwheel, thanks.

((give me M pinion = H Hairball [this will never happen]))

Also I'll try my best not to respond to anything, as I don't really want to deal with this sort of stuff anymore, I just figured I'd say my piece and hope for the best. I realize what I want for this game does not even remotely reflect what everyone else wants lmao. But I play(ed) this game too so I figure it's gotta count for something. *shrug*

EDIT: I forgot to add that I feel that throws are by far the worst reset choice being the most risky but you very clearly don't get as much from them than other resets but also this has resulted in a meta where taking the throw ain't that bad so you just take them (unless it's beo or any character that actually can capitalize from throwing.) At least that's how I feel and it often feels like even though this is the best option if your opponent is very good at blocking it doesn't lead to much and the high scaling leads into high meter gain for your opponent so you have to do the worst option then immediate get out of it so that it doesn't get worse or learn a near impossible to block 25/25/25/25 mixup. (Though I figure, like with most things, it's just a personal problem so no worries just again wanted to at least say something rather than nothing, sorry.)
Not exactly a suggestion & im not officially a mod so feel free to delete but feel it’s important to say not just here but to anyone viewing these forums: say what you feel you need to say regardless of who disagrees. Talking to a bunch of people who lurk, I hear the same thing: “I don’t wanna put out these different ideas” or “no one thinks this” when reality is usually a lot different & you really don’t know how many people are staying silent. People you see on qm all the time.

ultimately upto devs on what happens when & how, so saying ‘this won’t make it’ kinda defeats the purpose lol, but either way for the future I hope everyone feels more emboldened to talk, agree — & especially disagree. its an iterative process & much of this can’t be proven/disproven until played with anyways so just speak your peace right?
 

UnsafeonHit

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Getting my thoughts out of the way early. I think the main characters that should be addressed before anyone else should be Peacock, Fortune and Annie in that order.


Peacock's meter build, damage, and neutral control are all insane. There are a few things I have in mind to kind of lessen her overall threat but keep her core in tact

1. 5HP not going fullscreen

Yeah starting off big I know. This though I think would effectively help a lot with dealing with her fullscreen neutral presence since 5HP fills a lot of gaps in between George's and item drops it would make it easier to get in vs her while also making her have to close the distance to make use of certain blockstrings or mixups.

2.214KK (Lonesome Lenny) costs 2 bars/Universal interaction

Part of the strength of Lenny is its low cost for shutting down other projectiles and essentially being a shield to Peacock. And at 1 bar cost she can use it on low meter and zone enough to build another bar(after the first one is gone) to use the super again. Making this cost 2 bars or allowing theenemy to interact with it the same way as her would make it less oppressive. Considering it's damage and Lenny>Argus combos and Lenny based resets I would say the 2 bar cost would be better

3. (Only without 5HP change) teleports have a set distance rather than set position

This is a target at her fullscreen mixups nothing else

Annie

I like that Annie currently can kind of wrap every team together with both amazing assists and DHC ability. I think her main hits should be to her more used assists (H Destruction Pillar) and (H North Knuckle) im not sure what would be done for H DP but H Knuckle i think should lose the wall stick as an assist. I think her tool kit is really well made and nothing exactly "breaks" her, so im not quite sure how she would be touched outside of lowering her damage

Fortune I currently need to revise thoughts on before including but i want to see what other people think about these 3
 
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