The Unofficial Official Beta Discussion Thread

[KomodoSwagDragon]

Ms. Fortune General Thoughts:
I personally don't think I should be able to compete with head on only which might be a controversial topic for some fortune players. It would require a lot of work to her which probably won't happen in this balance cycle but is where I personally believe fortune should be at to be a healthy character.

Damage:
I think her headless damage doing slightly less than her head on combos is probably fair for how many more setups and pressure sequences i get while headless. I'm rather indifferent to the damage nerfs outside of decap attack not doing 100 per hit because of how headless combos scale incredibly quickly. I probably wouldn't go over 200 (getting to practically TOD characters in the corner was also a little corny even if it showed only in hyper specific situations.) The max undizzy damage nerf really changed the playstyle of headless in the corner as well to something that is probably a lot healthier for the game.

Metergain:
I think her metergain is at a great point at the current moment in the beta cycle as I basically require getting a good hit with my assist available in order to two touch the opponent from roundstart conditions (which is where i think almost everyone in the game should be outside of maybe Beo. I had a lot of fun abusing fortune annie while it lasted but sayonara it was annoying as hell to fight.)
It think there is probably some middle ground where cat scratch is allowed to build slightly more meter than the current beta build but the meter gain on DP is reduced in exchange but the amount of meter she builds right now seems perfect.

Fiber Upper:
Not having a dp in headless sucks but it honestly does not come up that often in my matches (getting caught in headless should be difficult for fortune to deal with). I also don't really mind losing the throw invlun on head on either. The startup to jump is quite jarring playing fortune but it helps a lot when it comes to calling out the move in neutral (especially roundstart situations). It will pretty much always be strong to just get into the air above the opponent but hopefully this allows people to react to what is happening and stop it from being so oppressive.

*Potentially we can have the old speed back on headless due to the loss of invlun and the extra time it takes already when hitting the head.

Cat Strike:
This move feels like it actually works way more although I have had some situations where I feel like it might have started the combo at stage 1 which is definitely not intended. (I did not have replay enabled when this occured so I can't verify)

j.Lk:
I think the current beta iteration is good. But not being able to crossup the opponent in headless with either j.lk or j.lp sucks though (maybe i just have to get better at hitting with the head on the frames I iad over the opponent? which is rather difficult to do consistently).

*I personally think j.lk should be the button you press when IAD'ing from afar and j.lp should be the dedicated overhead button up close. Similar to how filia presses IAD j.lp when at max IAD range and j.lk up close.

st.Lp:
People did not complain about this button enough (it was very ignorant tbh) the change is very reasonable.

Headless Head:
- Sneeze:
Sneeze is quite strong and probably should lockout for longer than retail and seems fair in current beta build.
- Lockout on opponent non-projectile hit:
The lockout of 60 felt really long when the opponent just hit the head with a cr.lk and then ran at me but seemed more correct when the opponent hit it with a heavy. Potentially the lockout could be longer depending on the strength of the move used to hit the head? something like 35/45/55 for l/m/h?
- omnomnom:
fair enough
- cr.Lk loops:
Were fun to execute but artificially buffed her damage against lighter characters and made resets really ambiguous during them. As much as i thought they were cool, they gotta go.

 

[KomodoSwagDragon]

Other Changes I want to see:

Please reduce the hitbox on Valentine when she backdashes similar to how fortune's hitbox got lowered when jumping. Its almost criminal how hard it is to punish her for a failed pushblock.

Make peacock only able to throw one bomb when canceled from a normal (Allow st.hp to cancel when the projectile is launched and does not connect immediately so she is still good at playing the game how she normally does). Sweep into bomb bomb or essentially getting zoned in a point blank blockstring feels incredibly difficult to deal with. I would honestly trade having bombs go away on hit for this.

Let Filia do more than one airdash out of hairball in a combo. Its been my biggest gripe against filia since I have started playing the game.

Please reduce the hitbox on Valentine when she backdashes similar to how fortune's hitbox got lowered when jumping. Its almost criminal how hard it is to punish her for a failed pushblock.

I like the changes a lot and I can't wait to see how things end up.

 

[Liam]

I also think Parasoul is fine so I often just leave her alone. The things I wrote down for Parasoul to try awhile ago are:
- M Egret goes slightly further and leaves faster.
- H Egret becomes uninterruptible a few frames sooner.
- 6LP expanded hitbox upwards a bit to catch up forward better.
- Ever so slightly longer throw range.

And adding:
- Seeing about having characters more consistently land in the middle of level 3, as Gelato brought up.

I miss old TK tear so much but I'll just let bygones be bygones there.

I'm also inclined to continue to leaving her jab alone as is despite complaints: you know what they say, comedy is tragedy plus time.

 

[Hydra]

Since were sorta on the subject of Parasoul might as well throw my hat it. The nerfs on Paras worst matchups makes things a lot better for our princess. They were bad matchups but they were also the top tiers. So it was like pretty miserable to play against them and Robo-Fortune. And the changes make it way more tolerable. On another note, I definitely would like to see some changes or buffs to M Egret and H Egret. I think the Russian SGC suggestion for multiple egrets would be something that would be really cool to at least try out. Or maybe M Egret being bigger or last longer so it can be less of an after thought. I feel like whenever I call M Egret he is recovering longer than actually doing something and that feels like a super situational move I mostly use when I'm committing to snipe. If that gets blocked and punished it feels even worse.

Lastly, I will continue to ask again for sLP to not be minus on hit. You can keep the on block values I care less. When I'm fighting Sev or another really smart player on quick match at 3 AM it sucks to get uhhh horn crushed for trying to dash jab Big Band being -10 on hit and I don't get to do a charge input. I have to commit to the MP and I'm pushing myself to get PBGC'd. Which is like one of her biggest flaws. Its just kind of silly. If I'm minus -7 on block and I get 2 framed for missing my charge input so be it. This isn't only limited to Big Band obviously but its crazy that I've had people tell me to do this to deal with this situation. https://streamable.com/ix3j03 (its a very specific spacing too btw if you cared to know). Shes a sword character. Let her jab be useful outside of confirming like crossunders. [Edit: the dream is dead]

 

[keninblack]

I also think Parasoul is fine so I often just leave her alone. The things I wrote down for Parasoul to try awhile ago are:
- M Egret goes slightly further and leaves faster.
- H Egret becomes uninterruptible a few frames sooner.
- 6LP expanded hitbox upwards a bit to catch up forward better.
- Ever so slightly longer throw range.

And adding:
- Seeing about having characters more consistently land in the middle of level 3, as Gelato brought up.

I miss old TK tear so much but I'll just let bygones be bygones there.

I'm also inclined to continue to leaving her jab alone as is despite complaints: you know what they say, comedy is tragedy plus time.

M Egret changes of any kind would be productive, I too would like it to become less of a niche/mu specific move.

H Egret buff would be sick!

6LP and better throw range would be awesome for her ground stuff, that on top of lv 3 consistency these all seem like productive ideas without going too crazy.

I miss old TK tear too but it must be done ;-; I'd imagine it'd still be a little too bananas

I really would love some experimentation with her strings, but as tragic as it is I've played around her not having great blockstrings for so long I'm pretty used to it lol. Excited to try these changes along with whatever happens for PW!

 

[BicepsAtMid]

Here are some of my thoughts with regards to band since that seems to be the big discussion currently

The way I see it in the game currently on retail the irrefutable top 4 assists are beam, brass, hbeat, and annie dp, these assists are in a tier of their own in power. Band having the option of picking between 2 out of the 4 top tier assists in addition to his other very good assist options atrain L M beat extend etc is insane value. Both robo and annie are essentially 1 assist characters, saw is an okayish meme assist and h knuckle is a lockdown assist that even fortune and robo cant consistently convert off on hit meterless, it was really good before but got nerfed to be essentially worthless and never picked.

Every other top tier assist character has only 1 option you can pick but band not only gets to pick between the best lockdown armored assist and best dp assist (lockdown, hits both sides for scooping assists and gives easy conversions) but he also gets a bunch of other solid assists to choose from and a massive body to make it extremely difficult to hit the point when punishing.

None of this is even mentioning all the dhcs stuff he gets like unscaled lvl 1 doing more dmg just before max ud then some combo dhcs, sideswap into lvl 3 dhc damage this character has so many options and is so powerful as a support I think it would be ridiculous to NOT tone his support down especially since we are toning down the other assists in that tier like hbeam and annie dp. If we dont touch him at all and nerf his competitors hes going to be the clear best support choice which I think is really boring, the game is more interesting if every support gives somewhat equal value to a team.

As for what changes in particular id like to see im not sure, im just kind of taking a stance against the whole crowd of band players popping up saying he shouldn't be nerfed like this character is ridiculous you guys.

Double:
L luger change is fine imo this button can be really risky to just throw out its fine to reward double being right. I dont think m should have gotten changed though this makes her assist pressure with stuff like hairball and fukua drill when I think that was already a really oppressive part of doubles kit.

Filia:

cmk change is godlike thank you so much. Seems like most people love this too but someone earlier was saying people might miss the skill expression of knowing when 5hp would whiff and to go into 2hp as a filia player for 3 and a half years I PROMISE you this is not the case the only thing i feel when Iis frustration.

Annie:

Think i got some pretty controversial takes here since this char seems really hated but as pretty much the only one CONSISTENTLY playing and placing well with annie in NA tournaments for the past year or so I feel I gotta say some things. Her damage is completely fine on retail, her midscreen damage off clk is very average for this game (7.2 for the consistent bnb with good reset points) and the worst of every dedicated support character (besides robo) but spikes in a few common situations, post reset and in the corner.

Her corner dmg is def above average hitting for 8k easily 8.2 with some optimization but its fine thats still in line with the other support characters (doubles universal anywhere on screen jhk loop does 8.2 btw and each jhk is a reset point) and it makes for some interesting decisions on defense like im going to block this mixup crossup because if i block it sameside I'm in the corner and she will have the damage to kill me whereas she wouldn't midscreen bc her dmg is so much lower.

Post reset her damage is quite frankly overrated especailly midscreen, its true she sets up her mixups easily but even filia can setup damaging mixups that do significantly more dmg then hers as u can see in the clip below. Keep in mind all these values are on retail her nerfed values are even worse. Trying to kill with this character on the beta currently feels terrible if you dont have a damaging assist it takes you a ton of resets to kill. Annie is really not great as a character if she cant kill you quickly, pre hit she is low throw so I think its fine to have her deal damage to you quickly.

optimal starter dmg comparison - Clipped with Medal.tv

Watch optimal starter dmg comparison and millions of other Skullgirls videos on Medal, the largest Game Clip Platform.

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As for dhc scaling stuff this is the change i dislike the least, it really feels my and a lot of other interesting teams are getting unnecessarily shot for fortune annie crimes despite fortune getting shot making that shell weaker. Fortune annie was especially strong because of the easy routing into dp assist corner carrywhich she could easily convert off and her INSANE metergain easily let her build 2 bars off round start conditions, this leaves ur third slot for an extremely powerful neutral assist like beam or brass. The majority of characters have way more considerations then this if they want to kill with annie, for filia she builds so little meter for round start condition dhc into annie 2 touches to work she needs to sacrifice a lot of damage for more hairballs to get the meter for the 2nd bar. She doesn't do a lot of damage in the first place so this really hurts and makes 2 touches extremely difficult from roundstart conditions. I think its fine for

Annie dp changes i could care less about I pretty much only noticed the damage which is whatever. I think it would be cool if h knuckle was usable, it doesn't need crazy blockstun or anything but its currently not able to be converted in most situations.

 

[Froggle]

SKD on band tag would be sick! Just please don't demote it to H brass levels of recovery as well haha. As for beat extend, changing its happy birthday behavior on point would mean taking away band's most consistent stabilizing tool for corner carry and his ONLY consistent side switching tool, a double whammy affecting his ability to double snap. As an assist, it just seems like an odd and unnecessary nerf, especially when it already has downsides baked in. I have no strong opinions on the other points, so I'll just sit predictably in the "it's fine" camp on those.

I do want to bring up, though, I think L step should lose its overhead and maybe be a little less minus to compensate. This would give M step a niche as the overhead one and L step the safer frametrap one. I've seen too many people get away with a cheeky 2lk L step and I think they should be forced to use the actually punishable (-10 doesn't count with that kind of range) M step to do that.

 

[SmallWangWarrior]

I am really liking the Umbrella rework so far, I had a few issues with it but those were largely snuffed out with the recent update to the Beta but i still believe Umbrella has no real reason to stay in overstuffed post combo. I feel like buffs to her bubbles while in overstuffed could help this as it would better highlight it as a specialisation of her kit much like Ravenous is in the beta (better bubbles and worse normals(slower) as opposed to Ravenous with better normals and no bubbles). I do not know what changes could be made to the bubbles without being too weak/strong and I don't even know if this is the type of design umbrella is supposed to have but i still think it could be worth consideration.

 

[Affricate]

a giant wall of projectiles that's impossible to avoid

Isn't this a problem that's unique to SG? Why is the complete lack of quality projectile invul a key design point to the game when multiple long standing issues (Peacock, Beam assist) exist because there aren't real counterplay tools?

 

[SeaJay]

I tried Nail Storage. I think it's very FUN, but I don't think a giant wall of projectiles that's impossible to avoid that she can combo off of is very fair, and it's easy enough to charge it while running away and calling assists, etc. I will probably not be putting it out in a update, it's a bit too much IMO.

You can't just post this and then NOT let people try it, that's mean! Let PW go sicko mode in beta even if it's just for a week.

 

[Taterade]

Can we remove the undizzy cost from snapbacks in this beta? I don't know a clear reason why it costs any at all, and was under the impression it should function like a super does for the bar.

 

[Stuff]

I'd just like to point out that Painwheel can already do a conversion like that with uncharged nails which I'm assuming would be the same start up of the stored charged nails. I don't think it'd be that strong. But looking at it now even though I didn't initially want it, I think this would be a very cool addition now. One funny thing about nails is that you can almost never take advantage of the chip every nail has, this would let painwheel land 500 chip on blockstrings most of the time and imo that's a very painwheel behavior, please allow this to be played with.

Also about H beam assist, personally I think it's fine, I still don't like the added cooldown (I think it's actually more this time but it's hard for me to remember atm) but I do like that it's always 4 hits instead of 6.

 

[Adeveis]

Can we remove the undizzy cost from snapbacks in this beta? I don't know a clear reason why it costs any at all, and was under the impression it should function like a super does for the bar.

If you're referring to snap triggering max undizzy, this was done so someone like fortune couldn't corner to corner carry you and your assist and still get a double snap.

 

[KomodoSwagDragon]

If you're referring to snap triggering max undizzy, this was done so someone like fortune couldn't corner to corner carry you and your assist and still get a double snap.

I think they are referring to snap adding 20 undizzy.

 

[acfan]

After seeing the PW charged nails in motion I would really like to at least try it for a short while.

 

[dekillsage]

Yo the 3M not giving Umbrella SNS worked super well I never get that misinput now. Should Parasoul get the same thing? She can get charge moves by doing 1 -> 3 which is weird since afaik no one else can do that.

The push block change is so crazy to experience. I'm so used to just never getting it half the time and now I get it all the time.

 

[SonicFox]

I still would like to see Annie’s H DP in install get buffed so that it’s like an ex version of itself just like all her other heavy special moves.

Some ideas I had were either extra hits or damage on it, or the DP on HIT leave the opponent closer so that she gets a full combo from it it she commits to it in install.

I still would like to see H crescent have like 2fs cut off from it, but other than that, I think Annie is in a great spot.

 

[SonicFox]

Double post: In regards to Parasoul Jab:

I think her combo strings should be changed to LL from her crouching jab, similar to how Fukua’s is.

That way she can pressure a bit more safely when she’s up close without risking getting PBGC’ed.

That or make StLK a standing low so she has better hit confirms on offense.

 

[Melatonin]

I personally think Umbrella's Bubble Jump move should be tweaked a little, to make doing so more desirable.
Like, for example, she gets I frames during ascension, or something among the lines of that.
Personally, I think Umbrella is in an alright spot, but that one little thing she can do slips my mind constantly, mainly because I don't really see any real reason to risk a combo to do the bubble jump.

But, we'll see where it goes from here since the Season 1 Characters are out now.

 

[Ikkisoad]

Can older characters get their hurtboxes looked at when in otg state? Never had big issues with that until I started using Buer assist, and making it hit otg against twins is considerably harder.

Spoiler: Videos

Catgirls can also dodge a little but they are not as bad, would be cool if all older characters could receive the season 1 characters treatment, or for at least the twins to be looked at as they are the hardest ones to hit with that combo.

 

[CaioLugon]

Could we have assist combinations also looked at?
Playing on pad I've always struggled to access LPMK and LKMP (square+circle and x+triangle).

Going from:

LPMK = a1
LKMP = a1
MKHP = a2
LKHP = a1
LPHK = a2
MPHK = a2

To:

LPMK = a1
LKMP = a2
LPHK = a2
LKHP = a1
MKHP = a1
MPHK = a2

Spoiler: Image

excuse the ms paint skills lol

The current configuration always ties LK to assist 1 and HK to assist 2, that new one fixes it making special+assist inputs more versatile and would let me have LPMK and LKMP on my assist macros, giving pad players easier access to those combinations. That would also make using heavy buttons with assists more convenient since the inputs don't overlap.

I understand that this could be an annoying adaptation to make for people who call assists manually, but overall I think it would be a very positive change.


Being able to change the button combinations on my right stick assists would also be huge, but I understand if you're not willing to give people access to 4 fully modular macros.

 

[dekillsage]

Can older characters get their hurtboxes looked at when in otg state? Never had big issues with that until I started using Buer assist, and making it hit otg against twins is considerably harder.

Spoiler: Videos

Catgirls can also dodge a little but they are not as bad, would be cool if all older characters could receive the season 1 characters treatment, or for at least the twins to be looked at as they are the hardest ones to hit with that combo.

You can fix this by either buffing beur or getting better at timing this (I can't get it to whiff idk how you're getting this drop)
Only say that because Filia is one of the few characters who's hurtbox works with everything I'm not trying to see it get a dlc hurtbox lol

 

[oddberry]

Before I start Please Dont Push This Before CB I Will Cry.

Alright I've played the new Umbrella for the past few days and I just wanted to give my opinions on her. I think the design idea is headed in the right direction. I really like the changes to the hunger modes individually. I however am not a fan of the way hunger management exists currently. I think the thing about the last hunger design that was so neat was the intricate ways you had to manage it. Situations where you're not going to get the full damage off salt grinder so you have to reset again? That was awesome! Want the level 3 damage so you go to the tip top of ravenous with salt grinder? Rad! Got a hit so now you want to cash out to overstuffed for the kill? Thats cool! I think the way the old hunger system worked was flawed in the sense that ravenous was too rewarding. Making ravenous the make or break mode it is now is a good direction to go to keep it balanced. I think with the way it's designed right now tho, we're going to run into the same problem we had before but instead of ravenous being the problem, it's going to be overstuffed. Currently, doing insane damage and then resetting to hit them again and do even more insane damage is just going to be the game plan and this Already Existed! So now instead of having no reason to leave ravenous, there's no reason to leave overstuffed. Overstuffed going to satiated mid-combo isnt really a deterring factor while doing overstuffed combos because you can just go back to overstuffed. And getting to ravenous feels really bad mid-combo. Trying to do a bubble setup mid-satiated combo and reaching ravenous before you get the bubble out is incredibly frustrating. This would all be fine if you had other reset options in satiated besides sqrt or high/low/crossup, but the general combo options in satiated are incredibly weak compared to the other 2 modes. Ravenous combo potential is also in the toilet compared to the other modes because there's no reason to be in ravenous at all unless you haven't been hitting the opponent. I've iterated this before but again it feels like the 2 extremes have been swapped. I have a few ideas for changes in each mode that i think would help mitigate some of the frustrations i've been having with this character, because i do think this current design is a step in the right direction.

General:
I think she should have control over her hunger bar. Not being able to drain it on ur own besides taunting is a good change i think, but having it go to max hunger of the next state takes out all the "management" of hunger management I feel. I still think she shouldn't be able to eat in neutral in rav (or at the very least have it be the ice cream taunt) so she's still encouraged to rush or die. Moves like hungern rush and salt grinder should have the old hunger manipulation back. I would say the same about tongue twister but that move is just completely different now so i'm not sure if i would give hunger management back to that one. Would probably open up damage I do NOT want to see in sg. Also I would like to try 4mp as the overhead input. I'm messing up a lot of my dash pressure with 2mp and would like to see if 4mp holds any better. This might just be a me thing though.

Ravenous:
I think she should have very weak versions of bubbles in ravenous. M bubble should be an immediate pop instead of a projectile you can pop later. H bubble should be an up close combo tool only. Immediate capture if you're in range but if not, there should be no projectile presence. This is so she still has some combo options in ravenous but without the campy lame neutral she had in retail. Still encouraged to rush in but with a bit more combo and reset options in the rush down mode. I don't mid the damage in ravenous taking a big hit if it means i can mix and combo in this mode without having to get lamed out to be in it. Also I think she should have a stronger reflector in this mode! I get why it was taken away, but if this is going to be the desperation get a hit Now mode, it makes more sense to have the 8 hit reflector than it did previously, although I understand why this one would stay gone permanently.

Satiated:
She needs to be able to actually combo in this state. She has virtually no way to combo except to go into the other modes, which are not always advantageous (or shouldn't be). One of the reasons last patch ravenous was so preferred is because satiated offered literally nothing at all. Old ravenous was just better satiated, so there was no reason to be there. Satiated is still like this! I can kind of understand "if you want better combo options you need to risk being in the other states" but having nothing to do but wait until rav or go into overstuffed to do anything outside of 2hp loops is really boring. Maybe giving her a splash out of rush if she has a puddle or a reverse beat out of jmk liker her sister, anything to make this mode not feel terrible to be in on hit. Right now the only purpose of satiated is for the sqrt setup out of stuffed combos. I'm just not sure if this is what satiated is supposed to feel like, but maybe giving satiated an actual use would make staying in ravenous or overstuffed feel less obligatory.

Overstuffed:
The damage lol. But at this point we all know that. I think overstuffed should still be a high damage character. But if each state is going to be used more now, especially with all the new tools she's getting in overstuffed, she should probably lose at least a bit of that damage. I think the damage would be really good if she didnt get all of these new tools, but the fact that she does mean something has to give. The only things I can really ask for in overstuffed are for salt grinder to have armor in stuffed if for anything the assist because it loses all of its original functionality in overstuffed and i would like it to be more than just "Move that does 1000 damage" without any combo ability if the opponent hasnt been restood. Either that or a bigger launch on hit would be fine. Also if we're going to penalize being in ravenous for too long i feel like there should be some penalty for overstuffed too. Maybe being slower in movement as well as slower normals would be good. I dont think the penalty should be as severe as starving because you're picking the easier option, but there can't be just a feast mode with no famine.


I think this version of umbrella is still very strong. I just think the way she's designed currently we're going to run into the same problems we had before. I hope some of the changes i suggested get considered. But if this is the version of umbrella I have to play, I will.

 

[Mark Fafnir]

Reading through post, I haven't seen anyone suggest this nerf brass. I think a fair nerf would be leaving it in Counter Hit recovery more. Mainly the frames like during the taunt. The assist would still be doing what it does, but it would reward people for having good punishes while also making brass players do smarter calls. I'm not a band player, but I think it would be worth trying that in a patch before just nerfing the damage or armor.

 

[05mario]

I forgot about this up until just recently and it seems it'd be good qol for inputs if its not too difficult to impelment. When the point is doing a combo can the input lockout on the 2 landing frames be disabled? It makes sense in pretty much every other scenario but when doing a combo it just feels unecessary and leads to me wondering where my input went when it does come up.

 

[CaioLugon]

Can older characters get their hurtboxes looked at when in otg state? Never had big issues with that until I started using Buer assist, and making it hit otg against twins is considerably harder.

You can fix this by either buffing beur or getting better at timing this (I can't get it to whiff idk how you're getting this drop)
Only say that because Filia is one of the few characters who's hurtbox works with everything I'm not trying to see it get a dlc hurtbox lol

It's definitely a buer issue. But I can confirm that 6hp into buer assist in general can be extremely unreliable.

I forgot about this up until just recently and it seems it'd be good qol for inputs if its not too difficult to impelment. When the point is doing a combo can the input lockout on the 2 landing frames be disabled? It makes sense in pretty much every other scenario but when doing a combo it just feels unecessary and leads to me wondering where my input went when it does come up.

Just wanna point out that this is REALLY impactful for painwheel specifically, since her routes involve primarily cancelling ground moves into fly, air normal, then following up with a button on the ground. Even her simpler combos can have multiple 3-4f links because of the land cancel frames, and the frame data display misrepresents it a lot. That, along with the high apm, is a big part of why she's so inconsistent online.

This would be a huge deal for her.

 

[KomodoSwagDragon]

I forgot about this up until just recently and it seems it'd be good qol for inputs if its not too difficult to impelment. When the point is doing a combo can the input lockout on the 2 landing frames be disabled? It makes sense in pretty much every other scenario but when doing a combo it just feels unecessary and leads to me wondering where my input went when it does come up.

I am worried this will change how resets and high lows feel. But maybe there could be some kinda of buffer?

 

[SeaJay]

Going from:

LPMK = a1
LKMP = a1
MKHP = a2
LKHP = a1
LPHK = a2
MPHK = a2

To:

LPMK = a1
LKMP = a2
LPHK = a2
LKHP = a1
MKHP = a1
MPHK = a2

RIP my muscle memory and my hitbox wiring if we get this, but it's probably worth doing. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to do A1+HK special, or A2+LK special. Pillar butchers players can finally pick up a 3rd character as anchor! (Kidding, kidding...)

 

[Mayor of Earth]

The Nail Storage stuff is sick and I'd deff love to try it out,atleast for a little bit. If we find that it's too strong, and it might just be. Besides QOL to pws kit,[l buer] and some frame data changes to a couple select normals. I'd like to see if we could get a tested rework to the Hatred Guard system to be a visual meter that goes up with damage absorbed, Giving her access to charged nail storage, point pinion dash[flight cancelable] and maybe acess to ex specials, either increasing damage or having additional properties, maybe even the properties that HI gives,Maybe[[air command grab]] Probs too strong even behind the requirements]] Doing so will make her neutral as a point way more interesting and rewarding for her heavy read based gameplay, With the intergration of HG and HI into one mechanic it opens up space for her to have a new super of sorts?? potentially, If we do go the route of a new super

This animation can be reworked as a dp super as the same input as old hatred install, [[most likely two bar]] being an invuln dp super that gives her 50% or 75% [[testing required]] of the new Hatred guard bar.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Could we have assist combinations also looked at?
Playing on pad I've always struggled to access LPMK and LKMP (square+circle and x+triangle).

Going from:

LPMK = a1
LKMP = a1
MKHP = a2
LKHP = a1
LPHK = a2
MPHK = a2

To:

LPMK = a1
LKMP = a2
LPHK = a2
LKHP = a1
MKHP = a1
MPHK = a2

Spoiler: Image

View attachment 17278
excuse the ms paint skills lol

The current configuration always ties LK to assist 1 and HK to assist 2, that new one fixes it making special+assist inputs more versatile and would let me have LPMK and LKMP on my assist macros, giving pad players easier access to those combinations. That would also make using heavy buttons with assists more convenient since the inputs don't overlap.

I understand that this could be an annoying adaptation to make for people who call assists manually, but overall I think it would be a very positive change.


Being able to change the button combinations on my right stick assists would also be huge, but I understand if you're not willing to give people access to 4 fully modular macros.

Would love to try this. The way Caio suggested makes much more sense than how it is implemented now. Maybe (if it's not too much work, of course) players could select between "Old assist style" and "new assist style" in the button config menu (although I wouldn't be surprised if an engine limitation prevents this), that way everyone is happy.

 

[Stuff]

Could we have assist combinations also looked at?

Maybe if we ask enough over the years we finally get this lol

 

[Calexe]

Big wall text — My feedback on Umbrella rework.

Spoiler: Umbrella feedback

Losing the hunger control feels very off and not having the ability to do small adjustments in my hunger bar to stay or leave a specific mode for sure makes me feel super uncomfortable. Yet, forcing Umbrella to full of next mode seems the right direction to create more diversity between her modes and be a more stable character overall. Makes sense to her balance but I'm very inclined to old hunger meter management. When you (Liam) said: "She'll need to play a bit more in Satiated", I was expecting to still be able to control my hunger bar, even a little but not at all - Taunt is the only option to deplete my resource and it is not viable to do in real matches. My suggestion is making Umbrella able to use bubbles to reduce hunger meter (again) but only in combos, to make sure she'll not retreat on roundstart and camp to Ravenous (which in my opinion, was not problematic).

Ravenous losing its ability to use bubbles also does not make sense to me, I would consider having the same rule that Overstuffed has, using the bubbles would reduce drastically the mode timer, and since you can't keep this mode forever, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be bad. On another note, I would like to see the devour specials having extra utility or effects since they can be used once and forces Umbrella out of Ravenous, specially Rush, having a bigger ground bounce so Umbrella can combo without using otg for example. The speed buff also helps Umbrella A LOT, and makes her more dangerous at this state.

Satiated is the only mode with less uptime than others, in numbers, but I do think this mode needs something else. Having access to all her tools and specials should make her more threatening, in theory, but none of them are special or unique enough to be worth using outside of hit confirms, in practice. It is also noticeable that in a lot of Umbrella games, she tries to get away from this mode, but being tied with Satiated until something connects, and being forced to get back when her combos ends is making Satiated have more uptime than the other modes. — When the rework were teased, I expected some changes to make Satiated more unique, and she ended at the same old Satiated, with additional nerfs and little control over it.

Overstuffed finally feels viable and I've been enjoying a lot being able to combo with more consistency without having to wait too much between hits, but still needs adjustments to make it more smooth, like fHP not having enough time to stage 2 bounce against heavies (Double, Band), jMP jHP forcing Umbrella to turn around against Squigly/Annie, Rush missing entirely from launchers (cMK puddle, fHP stage 2, jHP bounce), 2nd sHP on combos having either wall bounce or bigger hitstop, etc. I also ask to be careful on damage adjustments, reducing too much will not fix the old problem.

Spoiler: Normals

- sLK: The change was so good and now it feels like a real button instead a filler. My very biased suggestion is increasing the hitbox upwards, that allows to hit Double in her hitstun state more consistently.

- sHK: Increasing the startup removes the SnS setups, it removes the option to combo from sMP in ravenous, starving and satiated modes, and having the strange loop limit, so right now there is no reason to ever press this button if you don't have a properly setup for this. I did expect more than damage buffs to compensate the nerf, so please consider making the ground bounce higher and leaving the opponent closer to Umbrella.

- cLK: Not really sure why cLK got their low profile nerfed, the only reason I actually can imagine is that Ravenous got the speed buff. Maybe the change is part of the "changes to frustrating parts of Umbrella", but still makes no sense to me.

- dfMP: Overbite feels great to use overall but I do not like the command for this move. Since Umbrella is not tied anymore with P buttons reducing hunger meter, I would suggest moving this button to MK or even making a generic motion command for it (214, 236, 22, etc.) and adding buffer to it, so she can follow-up more easily in different modes. Other than that, Overbite gave Umbrella a breath of fresh air for blockstrings and pressure.

Spoiler: Specials

- Tongue Twister: Really liked the new TT, having the option to follow-up using OTG feels great for player expression and combo routes. The automatic chomps fit way better in this new hunger system. I would like to see a small adjustment the hitbox, so the sHP into TT link hits consistently against light weights, and to see the tongue going fullscreen at low speed in starving. I also do recommend some damage nerfs only in Ravenous (and maybe Starving?), since her Overstuffed routes are way better now.

- Hungern Rush: First of all, I DO NOT LIKE THE VARIABLE INVULNERABLE FRAMES BETWEEN HUNGERN MODES: I genuinely think this might be too much for her, catching meaty throw feels like a knowledge check for the opponents, and Umbrella by herself is a moving knowledge check already. I also do not enjoy the unblockable while jumping removal, good players will know where to jump to avoid Rush, if they need to jump at all. Rush still has the horrid hitbox and losing this aspect feels so wrong without having anything back in compensation. On the other hand, the new Overstuffed Rush feels great, a generic DP with a second hit that launches and leads to follow-ups, just a great move, for both Umbrella point and Umbrella assist. I just want to know why this move is not allowed to loop, other characters can loop the same special or even normal.

- Salt Grinder: Not too much to say about Salt Grinder, I would suggest adding automatic chomps like new TT, and maybe tweak the hitbox a little forward, other than that, feels the same.

Spoiler: Supers

- Retina Reflector and Contact Lens: The input change is so good, and something asked so long for the Umbrella players, so thank you, we can finally mash. I also would like to see Ravenous Retina additional eyes change getting reverted, or maybe moved to Overstuffed, but mostly important a small note on why this got removed.

- Under The Weather: Hitting Umbrella with snap feels fair, nothing else to say. If Ravenous gain access to bubbles again, my suggestion is making Ravenous UtW having less bubbles than Satiated.

- Feeding Time: Since Umbrella is forced to jump from Starving and Ravenous to Satiated with Salt Grinder, I do not understand the damage nerfs. The only option to hit it in combos are using Puddles and assists. I do think this change was really random and I would like to see more context to it as well.

- Hunger Bar: Little squares do not make sense to this new system since she's orientated to play more around all her modes, I know the art resources might be limited right now but my suggestion is changing her Hunger Bar to reflect more of new gameplan idea.

 

[LightningVoid121]

I would like to give my opinion on Umbrella after her changes.

I used to enjoy playing against Umbrella, not feeling too threatend from far but feeling the fear in my bones when she was close up, but not in a bad way. I always felt like losing to her high damage combos and occasional mixups were very deserved for my oponent.

That changed. Her new overhead ruins the fun in my opinion. As she is a character with multiple kind of grabs, a kind of grappler, watching out for hits and grabs felt like a very fun mind game. Now, on the other hand, i find myself blocking and staring Umbrella down, not knowing what could be coming. She has lows, risky command- and hit grabs that give a lot of reward (hence she deserved her high damage combos), but now I have to fixate more braincells than i have available on her overhead. She can do one low into the overhead immediatly, for example. Her mixups are atrocious now too.

That's why I find that her overhead ruins the fun. It's too hard to block and her whole gameplan starts to revolve around it.
I'm also guessing that the reason that i'm not seeing these insane and impressive combos anymore from Umbrella are also connected to her changes, but as I don't play Umbrella i can't say much about these other changes. (The only thing that i can say, as an outsider, that it sounds like it takes away what identity Umbrella had.)

I haven't heard anyone else complaining about Umbrella's overhead yet, but my fun of playing against Umbrella and feeling like I'm fighting a skillfull fight are being robbed by the staggering thread of an overhead she didn't need in my opinion. I was perfectly content with her old jmp rav overhead, since she had to work and take some risk to get access to it.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

I've had some time to mull over a few things and decided to make a post. This is going to cover a lot, so I'm gonna break it down into sections.

Peacock
I can't believe I'm saying this, but the argus agony damage nerf is probably overkill. Peacock has lost a lot of her more risk/reward skewed options, so letting her actually get damage when it is EARNED seems fine. I don't think she needs this and it should be reverted.

Ms Fortune
Please consider making the long sneeze cooldown apply on block only. There are a lot of corner routes that no longer work because of sneeze's massive cooldown ON HIT, and maybe that's the intended direction and we just gotta hold it, but as of now it feels very unfun to use this move. Conversions off sneeze are already pretty awkward, and the problem was never really the reward on hit for sneeze, it was how fast it recovered when sneeze was blocked, so this I feel like is an OK thing to ask to be reverted.

Black Dahlia
Level 3 is underwhelming. Full stop. I've been conditioned to think everyone is downplaying every option all the time in this game, so I never gave much credence to "Black Dahlia level 3 is kinda mid". But honestly, now? I see where they are coming from. Obviously this super needs some sort of limitations on it, as making it too good makes it the best super in the game. I think my issue with it is the bunnies don't attack often enough, and because of that, the best use of it is to put the bunnies on screen and tag Dahlia out. That seems pretty underwhelming. I would like to suggest making the bunnies attack more often, something like 15% or 20% more often attack integrals would sound good to me.

The armor breaking property that used to belong to ice should be moved to railgun. Makes sense thematically, and would encourage players to use this shot type more.

Beowulf
A while ago, Liam asked for rework ideas for hype, and as far as I have seen, there haven't been many suggestions. So I'm going to throw my hat into the ring.

One of my biggest issues with Beowulf has always been how much his disadvantage state sucks. It doesn't seem like Beowulf is giving up enough to be subjected to this weakness, but on the flip side, he snowballs entire teams off a single hit, so I think it's probably OK he has this. It's not very fun though.

I would like to suggest Beowulf can gain hype while taking chip damage in chairless mode. The exact numbers would need to be tested by the community, but this would drastically help his bad matchups; mainly zoners. Taking chip damage now has an actual benefit, players can go fishing with H chair against zoners now, and Beowulf is rewarded for blocking (which is balanced by the fact he is taking more chip damage). Would be fun to try!

This would be a pretty powerful buff, in my opinion, so as a tradeoff, I don't think Beowulf should be able to do any clinches when starting a combo at maxundizzy; those moves should become burstable in that instance.

QOL Features

FPS Logging

There is a lot of money in competitive Skullgirls right now, at least relative to how much there used to be. Connection test rules for determining problematic connections exist; however, sometimes a players network environment doesn't tell the whole story about why one player is getting one sided rollback. It is known (at least to some) that running the game at sub 60 FPS leads to one sided rollbacks for the other player. With the amount of money now in competitive Skullgirls, I think it's fair to say players should be expected to run the game at 60 fps. If your ping was too high in a Counterstrike or Valorant tournament, for example, you would be kicked. However a player running the game on very low end hardware with CPU and RAM intensive processes (Discord, Chrome, Outlook, running another game in the background, etc) not necessarily out of malice is actively making the opponent's experience worse. Again, not an issue really for a free or for funsies tournament, but we've all seen how big the mix masters pots are getting.

I would like to suggest a launch command be added, such as "-FPSlog", that simpy outputs in a text file the players average framerate during a match. If a poor quality match happens online, and the network info looks fine for both players but there is clearly a lag issue, this gives TOs another way to diagnose it. Additionally, players having hard evidence they cannot run the game at a stable 60 FPS lets them to know to close CPU/RAM heavy applications while playing their tournament matches. If a player gets called out for having a bad connection, and it's determined it's not the connection using this tool, they know better next time, they don't run the CPU/RAM heavy application, and everyone benefits in the future.

I think this feature is very important. This is a PC lead platform game with no crossplay, and a large portion of the userbase plays on low end hardware and I don't think realize how much programs like Discord/streaming etc can tank the opponent's experience. Please consider!

 

[oddberry]

I haven't heard anyone else complaining about Umbrella's overhead yet, but my fun of playing against Umbrella and feeling like I'm fighting a skillfull fight are being robbed by the staggering thread of an overhead she didn't need in my opinion. I was perfectly content with her old jmp rav overhead, since she had to work and take some risk to get access to it.

you should probably play against retail umbrella more.

 

[Koala Bare]

Hi! does anyone know if the team is planning on dropping the patch before CB or not? I want to know what i should be practicing

 

[Triviality]

I haven't heard anyone else complaining about Umbrella's overhead yet

LOL

 

[ruby_chan]

Was gonna wait till Liam had a post or two for Beowulf Related Stuff that would come to Balance Patch Beta and maybe the whole "roundstart 2 touches" thing to be investigated or so but since Beowulf has been getting mentioned in the forums and such I feel like I should also join in the discussion.
Before I go into rambling about Beo-related stuff, I do want to say that the current stuff that has been implemented into Balance Patch Beta has been rather fun and off to a great start. Not much to complain about with the current beta stuff in particular. I would like to play more of the Beta before I want to discuss the current changes that has been implemented to the characters like Peacock, Fortune, Umbrella, etc.

Based on the post Liam mentioned last for Beowulf about

Liam:
• Plenty of chatter about Beowulf internally - just to lay it all out on the table transparently, here's where we're at...
• Even with changes to Beowulf in previous patches, he's still at his most powerful when he's building hype using resource building assists such as A-Train, then spending it to two touch off of his oki, or TOD you even if he's saved up enough meter. Attempting to move Beowulf away from this gameplan is met with some amount of friction, as Beowulf A-Train players will be frustrated at having the most effective strategy for the character removed. As a result, it feels very difficult to change anything about him and allow for more viable playstyles, so we're at a bit of a logjam here.
• The way Beowulf fundamentally engages with hype and builds hype would likely have to be reworked to let him be played freely in different positions with flexible team compositions. For some patches closer to his release I'll remind you that Beowulf couldn't build three hype with taunt, and had less ways to dump a ton of hype on EX moves during a combo, since many EX finishers didn't regrab - he may have been worse, but he wasn't shackled to resource assists for doing a ton of damage.
• Summary: For as long as Beowulf remains a character that wants to taunt in the middle of a combo with an assist call (due to how hype building works), he will probably pilot the same as before. I expect him to lose his effective 0 bar two touches (!) in some of the global two touch changes mentioned way above, so this may be our collective best shot to give him different ways to be played. If the Beowulf + A-Train players want him to stay with the same gameplan, with the same assist dependencies, we'll have to figure that out too. Thoughts welcome!

I don't think Beowulf's issue is necessarily the way he engages with hype and/or builds hype is the main issue. It has been shown off by other Beowulf players like iDante and Karate Jesus where even building hype as a solo isn't as difficult where it can thru combos where you can do:
s.HK > Taunt > Arm > OTG pickup > Continue combo

There is also that Beowulf doesn't necessarily need a resource assist like A-Train, Excellabella, Salt Grinder, etc as he can use assist like Cerebella Lock & Load, Marie's H Hilgard Punch, etc. to build hype and continue the combo.
I think it's more the assist like A-Train and Salt Grinder that enable the gameplan of roundstart 2 touches for no bar and then (depending on the team build), be able to ToD the next character on incoming.
It's also these assist with the combination of how Grab Stance works that help enable Beo to be able to do a lot of damage at Max Undizzy as well.
If you want to stop Beo from being able to abuse things at Max Undizzy, you would have to change how Grab Stance works for him which at that point, you would have to rework the character entirely.

I think where some of the frustration for other players when it comes to Beowulf and his flexibility on a team is that he will be the "selfish" character on the team where the team will need to revolve around him and how he can be setup rather than how he can help setup for other characters.
This is where I think where the "logjam" is at for Beowulf because I can agree that Beowulf is at his best when he is able to build his hype resource quickly and efficiently with assist like A-Train or Salt Grinder as those assist don't require much setup to combo into with Beowulf compared to other assist but also because of the reliance of his resource like hype and chair so he can access a lot of his strong setups and combos, he relies on a resource assist to be at his best.

Now I want to just drop things like a wishlist of stuff to see or just food for thought until more information as to what to except for Beo happens in the future of the balance beta or whatever:

- Chair-On s.HP active frames: as previously mentioned, active frames to go from 1f to possibly 2-3f for consistency or to matchup more with some of the other cast members in the game. Example such as Para 5HP being active for 3f.

- EX Input Leniency: It has been previously mentioned before by other Beowulf players, but the input window for EX throws and such to give a bit of a bigger window to input as sometimes when inputting the EX command it can be plinked (ex. LP, 3frames pass, MP) and EX move will not be registered. While yes, there is workarounds to this by doing things like pressing all 3 Punch or Kick buttons to prevent this, just something for consideration.

- Removing Chip Damage when Chairless: As previously mentioned, I think removing the chip damage from normals would be beneficial for him. If not, maybe replaced with taking additional damage when chairless and not taking the additional chip damage from blocking normals from the cast members. (Example: Street Fighter Vega (Claw) taking more damage when mask is removed).

- Snap when Chairless: As mentioned, possibly have Beo be able to combo the opponent's assist while chairless for as it stands, when Beo performs a snapback off grab while opponent's assist is still on-screen, Beo is unable to follow-up after the snap on the assist. Currently, Beo can only perform a "Happy Birthday" if he has chair on and if he has hype while performing the snapback from Grab Stance. Not having access to a universal mechanic due to not having chair at the moment due to where in the screen its position or because it’s still on cooldown and no resource readily available does not feel good and can sometimes make or break a match.
Example

- EX Chair Pickup: YES YES I KNOW I KNOW but just food for thought, as it stands right now, EX Chair Pickup you need to wait for chair to be off cooldown before you can perform the action but Chair Recall, you don't need to wait for chair to get off cooldown to perform the action, wondering if this is something that can perhaps be looked into where EX Chair pickup doesn't need to wait for chair to be off cooldown to be used.

- Chair Recall (EX Take a Seat): As previously mentioned, suggesting to possibly keep hitbox while Beo gets hit as it does cost all 3 Hype during chair recall as some of the other cast members do keep their projectile even while they get it. If not, then possible for chair recall to go from 3 hype to possibly 2 hype cost while keeping the same properties as is. Understandably it is +1 on block but it does vary on spacing between the Chair, Beo, and the opponent so take this with a grain of salt.

- Chair Recall (Hold): Currently as it stands, Recall (Hold) isn't really used when doing recall as generally speaking it's much fast to just recall hold s.LP to gain hype back or just do taunt during recall to get max hype back versus holding recalling to get one hype back so if this can be looked into where there is something more beneficial for using the move and waiting for chair. I get the idea that not all moves need to have a purpose but imo if the move isn’t gonna be used like that then why make it. Again just food for thought.


Overall, this is just where my thought in current retail Beowulf is at. I can agree with others that Beowulf right now is the best he has even been but I think with some adjustments, buffs, etc he can be even better.

I think the current option that Fullbleed mentioned to help with his bad matchups, doesn't necessarily help him. I don't think building hype is his issue in the bad matchups but just more his movement options and his ability to maneuver around certain things. Whether this is to give Beowulf a proper double jump versus j.2HK as his double jump while sacrificing his chair to gain height and such but ultimately this is to get the discussion rolling for Beowulf again until more news about Beowulf comes up for the Balance Change.

Apologies for the long ass text but just top of mind stuff.
Hopefully this can lead to more healthy discussion about Beowulf and others are willing to have an open mind when discussing this character.

 

[ruby_chan]

Also helping Daryo post Fukua thoughts as they could not post ---

Fukua Changes

I want to start off by saying thank you Liam and the dev team for working so hard these past few weeks balancing the game and making it a lot of fun to play the beta.

General:
I think that fukua is a pretty decent character both on point and support roles but she feels like a character that has unnecessary penalties to her tools because of how strong she used to be. Her main problems currently has been the way her pre-hit low/throw game works with her mediocre means to build and spend meter. It makes no sense for her as a low/throw character spend meter to have to convert from both throws midscreen while simultaneously building very very mediocre meter for herself due to the way her darts work(having to wait for darts to return before using them again + having to wait on the metergain return + amount of metergain on hit is based on distance) on top of not being able to at the very least spend a bar to convert from raw airthrow. If we alleviate these issues a bit she'll be a solid but not to strong of a character in my opinion.

Metergain:
There's been talks of metersteal in skullgirls but I don't think it's been properly tested before to my knowledge for whatever reason. Right now is the best time to test this and I don't think there's any other character better than fukua that this would work well with. We should test allowing fukua darts on hit steal meter from the opponent and give the meter to fukua. This metergain buff would compliment her need to convert from throws with meter and counter teams in a way that depends on meter for safe dhcs or to do damage so opponents have to be careful when approaching her. It's fine that fukua is a "low"(honestly average) damage character because her damage from bff and her lvl 3 is really good. She could build a lot of meter to potentially use these supers for herself or for her teammates later down the line through dhc and chunk a good amount of damage on opponets. To balance this however, obviously we can just keep the cooldowns she has on her darts besides the metergain based on distance. I think whatever amount of meter you steal and get on hit should remain constant. This would make her a fun and unique meterbuild character that incentivizes players to put her on a team whether it's on point,mid, or anchor. If the meterbuild change ends up becoming too strong for whatever reason then I would like to remove the way she gets meter based on distance through darts and the metergain delay on hit.

Throws:
To be honest I like the idea that her regular throws puts the opponent into hkd situations(mainly her airthrow) and fukua has to setup shadows but it feels awful to be FORCED to do that and not be able to spend bar to convert or at least spend the bar or two to kill the opponent from airthrow. In conjuction with her metergain change I mentioned above, I think fukua should be able to have the option to CHOOSE between putting the opponent into hkd situations where she's really plus and set up shadows or spend the meter that she built to convert from both airthrow and ground throw. It would be fun to have to make the decision on whether or not you want to save the meter later for yourself or teammates or do you want to convert from your throws by spending meter. Would be another unique way to play her as a low/throw meterbuild character. Her command throws can stay the same.

Health Mechanic:
This is a really messy mechanic where a lot of people don't have a definitive answer on. Some people think that the health loss before wasn't a big deal, some feel like the health loss is a big detriment to her gameplan, and some feel like it's necessary to balance her strong shadow holds that breaks armor. With that being said, I personally don't believe that shadow holds are that insanely strong where it's justified for her to lose health for it. There's plenty of counterplay to avoid or remove clones so I don't believe they're not interactable like retail peacock item drop. I also think that people are misinformed about the way shadows holds in neutral for pressure and zoning are played out in actuality(clones do not go as far as people think, pickups from clones like L clone in neutral or conversions from airthrow aren't consistent). However, I do understand the concerns that shadow holds in neutral for zoning could be too good. To be honest I have no clear answer on how we should go about clones and the health mechanic so I'm down for other people to give their takes.

Qol buffs(?):
It sucks to play this little minigame when I'm comboing certain characters like double or umbrella due to their size and weight and I have to carefully hold and send m shadow at the right time so that I don't pick up from otg or at the very worst drop the combo. Changing how m shadow picks up characters during hitstun so that it's consistent would be a huge qol for her. Another small qol/buff for fukua is to refresh her shadows when she gets dhc'd in through bff/lvl3 when her shadows have been used as an assist earlier. These changes allows fukua to consistently get the damage needed for her to kill.


Just wanted to give my ideas and thoughts out there since we're rolling out these beta patches a lot faster than I expected. Keep up the good work.

 

[HellCofer180]

My thoughts on beowulf:
I feel beowulf's in an alright spot for me aside from needing a few buffs and nerfs.

The most immediate buff he needs right now is his mobility. Right now, he struggles against zoners and other characters with better mobility because he doesn't possess any movement options that get him in aside from his hopdash, j.d HK, and wulf blitzer, all of which are very linear. He can't get in on his opponents round start w/out assists to back him up and he suffers in his disadvantageous state because he has no escape options from his mobility alone. This is also compounded by the fact that he suffers extra chip damage without his chair, which is his only escape option without using meter through his dp.
I suggest that to combat this issue, 1) during j.d Hk, allow beowulf to drift farther in any direction the player chooses afterwards so that beowulf can maneuver around the opponent from his limited position, 2) allow 1 EX blitzer to let beowulf input any attack afterwards so that he isn't helpless in the air at the cost of hype, 3) allow airwulf to inputted in the air so that beowulf has an escape option in the air, 4) make beowulf take less chip damage when equipped with his chair, and 5) allow hurting hurl to be EX'd by hype so that he has more options to spend hype on for beneficial effects. I also think that for his assists, remove the cool down from his chair assists and allow players to choose his chairless assists so that he's more effective as an assist character covering his team with dp's and armor assists.

Now, for his nerfs, I think his overall damage and hype usage should be toned down a bit since the most effective strategies around beowulf is building a team around him and synergizing hype gain with resources assists like A-train, which doesnt sound like it offers a lot of variety on playstyles people generally want with him. I suggest that for his nerfs, his damage output should heavily scale after he uses EX grendel killa so that he has to reset, giving characters a chance to escape his ToD's, his taunt should only build max hype if he hits with any of his attacks (including supers and chair projectile; excluding hitgrabs/command grab if as a first hit) or whiffs normals that build him hype and loses all his hype if he's counterhit during or after his taunt, giving characters the opportunity to strike him the moment he tries building hype. This ensures that beowulf's gameplan doesn't solely revolve around activating taunt for instant max hype during his tod's and instead revolves around flexible ways to gain hype through/ without interacting with his opponents.

This is all I have to say about beowulf for now. Most of it is me spitballing ideas for how to make beowulf good and less polarizing. Hope to know what you think about my ideas for beowulf, since we're now in open season.

P.s: it's been a while since I posted on this thread, gosh, alot has changed since then.