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Them's Fightin' Herds

Oh my god, can we please not go into 'why is it only girls?!' The real answer to that question is 'who cares?' It's one of the most insignificant things, unless their sex/gender is a apart of said character/s driving force. (Ex. Naoto and Bridget)

This is the last damn argument I want to see on a Skullgirls forum.
 
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I care because I want to have some diversity between the characters. All females gets kind of boring.
 
Meow-Professor said:
I care because I want to have some diversity between the characters. All females gets kind of boring.
How????
EDIT: Rather, I mean how is it not diverse between a fucking reindeer, a cow, a goddamn unicorn and a dragon-horse???
I know jackshit about fighters so you might be on something with fighting styles, otherwise gender is irrelevant.
 
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People....

No ones thinks about the Predators? Probably we will get at last one (the boss) and probably this can be playable. I think all the Predators (at last in the beginning) will be males.
 
WaterMystic277 said:
How????
It shouldn't matter.
It is like when you have characters of one ethnicity. Would you rather have a ton of white females or a a group of people all from different contries and cultures with different genders? I don't want all of the characters to have the same basic traits.
 
Okie Dokie said:
If any character should be male, it's the noble giraffe.

Ushi_Ushi_no_Mi_modelo_Jirafa.png
I'm cool with a male or two and I fine with an all female cast, butI can only imagine the bs criticisms that would come with a male giraffe: "Why is the only male a walking phallic symbol?!?!; "It'so sexist that a male stands above the rest, ugh!"; "Ugh, I'm so tired of people pushing males in every game, like, really!"


.....yes my faith in humanity is at an all time low.

Sonson21 said:
Well some people like characters based on how much of that character they find relatable. Is it wrong to identify with male characters over female ones? I know they're still catering to the MLP community and what not, but two male characters out of the bunch wouldn't have sent them into a frenzy. Or at the very least had the Goat character be male. I've seen enough stallion oc's to know people don't mind male characters in their mlp. As it stands, they just really wanted to reskin FIM, keeping the same personalities and genders. I feel they could have differentiated more, but chose to play it safe.

I'm fine with a disparity between genders but the absence of either, I'm not particularly a fan of. Sure it's a trivial to some but not everybody see's it that way.
I'm sure most people like diversity, but shoehorning it in is, at least to me, an insult. It's like a film with a token black guy (I'm black), but he's only there for show. Or a film with a huge, diverse cast that ends up sucking because the characters aren't given enough time to develop. And, to me, it's even worse if an unharmful idea is changed just to make a few overly sensitive people feel better: "Oh, no six women have gathered together without a male. I'm now sickened and uncomfortable........also the boy scouts and girl scouts are sexist". To put it bluntly, there's nothing wrong with wanting to identify with a character's gender, but when gender alone puts people off then it's those people who are the problem. I'm not saying you're one of them. You've been fairly reasonable, but it seems like the majority of people who are against a gender disparity are.

This is one game out of thousands. I'm sure people can get over it.

Meow-Professor said:
It is like when you have characters of one ethnicity. Would you rather have a ton of white females or a a group of people all from different contries and cultures with different genders? I don't want all of the characters to have the same basic traits.
I believe in diversity where it matters and makes sense. In street fighter, which is an internationally acclaimed game, yes diversity is important because the game is representing world warriors.

But why get in a tizzy over six furry animals of different species, different countries, different colors, different sizes, different personalities, different motives, and different cultures because they're all female. All that diversity yet people complain because someone doesnt naturally have a wang.
 
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Meow-Professor said:
It is like when you have characters of one ethnicity. Would you rather have a ton of white females or a a group of people all from different contries and cultures with different genders? I don't want all of the characters to have the same basic traits.
HOW THE FUCK IS THAT RELEVENT.
Like, I just edited my thing so I'll repost it.
Rather, I mean how is it not diverse between a fucking reindeer, a cow, a goddamn unicorn and a dragon-horse???
I know jackshit about fighters so you might be on something with fighting styles, otherwise gender is irrelevant.
We have a plenty diverse cast imo.
 
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WaterMystic277 said:
HOW THE FUCK IS THAT RELEVENT.
Like, I just edited my thing so I'll repost it.
Rather, I mean how is it not diverse between a fucking reindeer, a cow, a goddamn unicorn and a dragon-horse???
I know jackshit about fighters so you might be on something with fighting styles, otherwise gender is irrelevant.
We have a plenty diverse cast imo.
We've got the race diversity but not the gender diversity. It would just be nice if we have one male instead of all of the females.
 
Meow-Professor said:
We've got the race diversity but not the gender diversity. It would just be nice if we have one male instead of all of the females.
Then go play literally hundreds of other games with guys in them, oh my actual fuck.
There's games with all-male casts, I don't hear complaints about that so why complain about girls?
 
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Meow-Professor said:
It would just be nice if we have one male instead of all of the females.
You could just mute the sound and pretend the character you're playing has a deep manly voice. That's what I had to do for most of the cutscenes in Megaman 8.
 
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I think you guys should control your words...

But who am i to tell that?
 
WaterMystic277 said:
Then go play literally hundreds of other games with guys in them, oh my actual fuck.
There's games with all-male casts, I don't hear complaints about that so why complain about girls?
[hugs]
I mostly agree. There'r plenty of games where playable characters are all males, yet they're still good games.
There's plenty of diversity in this game.
If the lack of males doesnt actually effect the story being told then I literally don't give a flying longma dump.
 
WaterMystic277 said:
Then go play literally hundreds of other games with guys in them, oh my actual fuck.
There's games with all-male casts, I don't hear complaints about that so why complain about girls?
Hold on, because the "we have plenty of other examples of x not present" is NOT an excuse for someone to still do something.
We have lots of examples of people who aren't racist. Does that make it okay to be racist? No, right. A much heavier example, but equivalent.
This isn't a thing about gender equality or anything. This is just that it is nice to have some diversity in the basic traits of your characters.
 
Man what
 
Meow-Professor said:
Hold on, because the "we have plenty of other examples of x not present" is NOT an excuse for someone to still do something.
We have lots of examples of people who aren't racist. Does that make it okay to be racist? No, right. A much heavier example, but equivalent.
This isn't a thing about gender equality or anything. This is just that it is nice to have some diversity in the basic traits of your characters.
Except it's not. Were talking about presentation that doesnt effect anything, not a mindset of hateful people.

There are games where there are all males. There are games where there are all females. There are games with equal representation. There are games with disparate representation. That's diversity.
This is just that it is nice to have some diversity in the basic traits of your characters.
I think species counts as a major basic trait...
 
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Meow-Professor said:
Hold on, because the "we have plenty of other examples of x not present" is NOT an excuse for someone to still do something.
We have lots of examples of people who aren't racist. Does that make it okay to be racist? No, right. A much heavier example, but equivalent.
This isn't a thing about gender equality or anything. This is just that it is nice to have some diversity in the basic traits of your characters.
OH MY GOD, That is the biggest load of 'false equivalency' I have ever seen.

Look, you shouldn't complain about a single-sex cast, regardless. TFH is probably gonna get guys later down the line and as long as their decent, who fucking cares.
I don't get why people are complaining about an initial cast being female when they're on a forum for a game that HAD THE EXACT SAME SITUATION. I shouldn't even have to hear this, oh my actual fuck.

The game is actually way more diverse now since all of it would of been the literal example you posted earlier (White Females/Female Horses). The is only 1 and a half horse in the game now.
Covenant said:
Except it's not. Were talking about presentation that doesnt effect anything, not a mindset of hateful people.

There are games where there are all males. There are games where there are all females. There are games with equal representation. There are games with disparate representation. That's diversity.

I think species counts as a major basic trait...
This too.
 
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WaterMystic277 said:
OH MY GOD, That is the biggest load of 'false equivalency' I have ever seen.

Look, you shouldn't complain about a single-sex cast, regardless. TFH is probably gonna get guys later down the line and as long as their decent, who fucking cares.
I don't get why people are complaining about an initial cast being female when they're on a forum for a game that HAD THE EXACT SAME SITUATION. I shouldn't even have to hear this, oh my actual fuck.

The game is actually way more diverse now since all of it would of been the literal example you posted earlier (White Females/Female Horses). The is only 1 and a half horse in the game now.
I had a problem with the cast of Skullgirls before males were released. I never said I didn't. And I still liked the game despite that, something like this isn't going to ruin the game for me.
The game has diverse races but it wuld be nice to have even more variation with the genders. It isn't the end of the world, no, but it would still be nice.
Covenant said:
Except it's not. Were talking about presentation that doesnt effect anything, not a mindset of hateful people.

There are games where there are all males. There are games where there are all females. There are games with equal representation. There are games with disparate representation. That's diversity.
How is it not equivalent? I used that comparison to show that just because the majority doesn't do something, it makes it okay to do something. It applies to both cases.
If I wanted to play a game with a protagonist of a certain gender, I can do that. I've got plenty of games to choose from because games are very diverse, yeah. I'm just saying it would be good if we had a guy in this game.
 
Meow-Professor said:
I had a problem with the cast of Skullgirls before males were released. I never said I didn't. And I still liked the game despite that, something like this isn't going to ruin the game for me.
The game has diverse races but it wuld be nice to have even more variation with the genders. It isn't the end of the world, no, but it would still be nice.
Then why even bring it up??? Like, at all???
 
I still have my doubts about this subject in specific.

It would be great to have all kinds of characters in all games? sure, it would, but that might not be the best scenario, like, i hate to bring other games to the table to explain, but i'll have to.

In Bayonetta 2, there is a character, named Loki, and he is a cool character on his own, but he is not nearly as interesting or appealing compared to the entire cast of the game.

And if you go to the platinum dev blog, you'll see that loki was supposed to be a girl, but they decided to make a boy, only because in the previous game, you had cereza with a similar role in the story, So, now, you have a male character, that was initially made as a girl, and you have to come up with a personality, and a story for this character that you hadn't in mind before.

So, my point kinda is, it is cool to have diversity, but if you have to go away from your original idea to do that, it will probably result in a not cool result.

Big Band and beowulf are not only male characters, but characters that were made to be male, at least that is what i believe.

So, i support a male character if it the designer, wants to make said character, and is really making something interesting out of it.
 
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Bringing up racism in this discussion is false equivalency to the core. It would be like talking about how tv shows often fall into either the comedy or drama category and why separating them for awards is a good thing and the opponent bringing up segregation out of nowhere as somehow being an equivalent example to show why separating things isn't necessarily a good thing.

You haven't proven your point with that, just made people very uncomfortable.
 
WaterMystic277 said:
Then go play literally hundreds of other games with guys in them, oh my actual fuck.
There's games with all-male casts, I don't hear complaints about that so why complain about girls?

So sausage fest isn't a term you've ever heard? People complain when the shoe is on the other foot as well.
 
Meow-Professor said:
It is like when you have characters of one ethnicity. Would you rather have a ton of white females or a a group of people all from different contries and cultures with different genders? I don't want all of the characters to have the same basic traits.
I....Literally just said this before, it's fucking 5am for me (probably why I'm swearing so much) But it would of been that case if it stayed as a MLP game, hell it would of been a true...well whatever the female equivalent of a sausage fest is. Now we have female of all different races.

Like again, why even complain? As a MLP game it would of had even less chance of having even one guy cast but as an original property, it can have guys without repercussions, so why even complain or bring it up? It probably will eventually have guys like Skullgirls but it shouldn't be an issue like you said, if it doesn't 'ruin the game'.

If really does and you're not trying to sound like a shitty person, there's like, 70% at least other games for you to play with male leads or playable males in general.

Sonson21 said:
So sausage fest isn't a term you've ever heard? People complain when the shoe is on the other foot as well.
I've mostly heard guys use that as a complaint there's no hot chicks.
 
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WaterMystic277 said:
I....Literally just said this before, it's fucking 5am for me (probably why I'm swearing so much) But it would of been that case if it stayed as a MLP game, hell it would of been a true...well whatever the female equivalent of a sausage fest is. Now we have female of all different races.

Like again, why even complain? As a MLP game it would of had even less chance of having even one guy cast but as an original property, it can have guys without repercussions, so why even complain or bring it up? It probably will eventually have guys like Skullgirls but it shouldn't be an issue like you said, if it doesn't 'ruin the game'.
.
MLP had male characters. I don't watch the show, but I can think of a few. Applejack (I'm pretty sure that is her name, either that or Applebuck) has a brother who I don't know the name of but have seen. I also know that on a much more important scale Twilight Sparkle has an assistant called Spike who is also male.
It isn't an issue, but it would be beneficial, which is why I mentioned it. If I dislike x or wish something was done like y, I'm going to bring it up for the sake of conversation.
I'm not trying to sound rude or mean, or anything. All I said was I'd like for there to be a male character.
WaterMystic277 said:
there's like, 70% at least other games for you to play with male leads or playable males in general.
I'm not talking about other games. I'm saying I can't play this game as a male character.
 
Meow-Professor said:
MLP had male characters. I don't watch the show, but I can think of a few. Applejack (I'm pretty sure that is her name, either that or Applebuck) has a brother who I don't know the name of but have seen. I also know that on a much more important scale Twilight Sparkle has an assistant called Spike who is also male.
It isn't an issue, but it would be beneficial, which is why I mentioned it. If I dislike x or wish something was done like y, I'm going to bring it up for the sake of conversation.
I'm not trying to sound rude or mean, or anything. All I said was I'd like for there to be a male character.

Yeah, but they were like....1 for every 20 or somethin' Like not even big Mac had a big role, most dudes were background ponies or 'plot devices'
Discord is the only 'main' one I can think of and he appears in like 5 episodes out of 3-4 seasons and that game was gonna keep to season one where lack of dudes was most prevalent too. So if you think Fighting is Magic was gonna be any different, I got news for ya, bub.
EDIT: lmfao reading comprehension on my end. Spike was gonna be a story character probs

Meow-Professor said:
I'm not talking about other games. I'm saying I can't play this game as a male character.

Then either wait until they get guys, if really and if they don't. Well fucks to be you I guess, I wouldn't want anyone who's that uncomfortable without a dude in the cast.
 
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I think most of us would like a male character or two, we just don't think it is something that should be used as a knock against the game in general.
 
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So I remember having a particularly dark thought when I was high on caffeine yesterday. So Mane6 will be hiring contractors as needed for development after the crowdfunding campaign is over. I'm wondering what would happen if some of those contractors end up being people who worked on Tribute Edition...

...

Guess it's better if people didn't ask and didn't tell.
 
Meow-Professor said:
How is it not equivalent? I used that comparison to show that just because the majority doesn't do something, it makes it okay to do something. It applies to both cases.
If I wanted to play a game with a protagonist of a certain gender, I can do that. I've got plenty of games to choose from because games are very diverse, yeah. I'm just saying it would be good if we had a guy in this game.
It's not equivalent because in no cases is racism a good or acceptable thing. There are, however, cases where gender disparity or absence is fine: boy scouts, girls scouts, some sports, certain rehabilitation centers, prisons, most changing rooms, lesbian phone hotlines, etc.
 
So other than unblockable infinites and half circle inputs, what's so bad about Tribute Edition?

I believe most of that game is just slightly reworked from the original source material even if Mane6 will never acknowledge what is there's and what isn't for legal reasons.

The guy making the 2.0 version flaked out so I guess that game is dead now.
 
WaterMystic277 said:
Then either wait until they get guys, if really and if they don't. Well fucks to be you I guess, I wouldn't want anyone who's that uncomfortable without a dude in the cast.
You're acting like I'm going to not survive if I don't get a male character. It isn't a big deal to me, it would just be nice. I can't think of any other term for it other then just "nice". I'm not uncomfortable without a male in the cast.
Covenant said:
It's not equivalent because in no cases is racism a good or acceptable thing. There are, however, cases where gender disparity or absence is fine: boy scouts, girls scouts, some sports, certain rehabilitation centers, prisons, most changing rooms, lesbian phone hotlines, etc.
I pointed out in a previous post this was NOT what I meant by that comparison.
Okie Dokie said:
So other than unblockable infinites and half circle inputs, what's so bad about Tribute Edition?

I believe most of that game is just slightly reworked from the original source material even if Mane6 will never acknowledge what is there's and what isn't for legal reasons.

The guy making the 2.0 version flaked out so I guess that game is dead now.
What even is the Tribute Edition? I know absolutely nothing about this project before Them's Fighting Herds. I'd assume it was some kind of demo version of Fighting Is Magic, but I didn't know that it was ever finished enough to have a playable demo for it?
 
I think the tribute edition was the leaked EVO build. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, can we please move on from the all female cast argument? I think everyone has said their stance on it and we're just going in circles at this point.
 
SpaceCadetKeon said:
I hope they put in a male character and make him really fucking girly like Amane or Bridget, just to fuck with people. "Hey, you guys said you wanted a guy. Well, here he is! Isn't he fabulous?"
I just love effminine characters in general so, I love this.
 
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Meow-Professor said:
I pointed out in a previous post this was NOT what I meant by that comparison.
That's the issue. People were simply saying that it's okay to have rosters disparate in either direction or to have an equally represented roster. We then used other games as an example of overall equality between games. Then you bring up racism to say that people doing one thing doesnt make it ok. That comparison doesnt make sense because that not what everyone was talking about. If you believe that having only one gender in a game (especially one that is diverse everywhere else) is bad then you should make better comparisons, because what you're doing is comparing a harmless and morally faultless act akin to a girl-only club and comparing it racism.

WaterMystic277 said:
I just love effminine characters in general so, I love this.
As a Bridget main I would laugh so hard at that.
 
Okie Dokie said:
The guy making the 2.0 version flaked out so I guess that game is dead now
I've actually been wondering if they stopped out of respect for TFH or if, unbeknownst to anyone, Mane6 contacted them and "kindly" asked them to stop.

Meow-Professor said:
What even is the Tribute Edition?
Back in July 2012, one of the QA testers for Fighting is Magic leaked the playable EVO build of the game onto the internet, giving everyone a chance to finally play the game for the first time. Yes, it was severely broken and only Applejack, Rarity, Pinkie and Twilight were playable, but it gave us a feel of how things generally worked and if not for that leak, nobody would've been able to play the game, period. (Despite whatever Mane6 has to say, I honestly think this was for the better. This is one of the only two things I will disagree with Mane6 on)

Fast forward to February 2013 and the game got C&D'd. People like Rofl-Biscuits were still streaming online tournaments for the game, and guys like Derp and IWannaBrawl started opening up the guts of the EVO build and making their own builds of the game. It took until the end of 2013 for Derp and IWannaBrawl to finally get together with a few others to work on a solid, "What the Finished Game Would've Been" version, called "Tribute Edition". They finished Rainbow Dash (Playable but incomplete at the Canterlot Gardens Tournament streamed by Jaxel) and Fluttershy (Only seen in action in a teaser trailer), added a few features like training-ish mode, a moveslist, pushblock, etc and released it at the very end of February 2014. Word hit the Brony Community with the swiftness and impact of a freakin meteor, and battle lines were drawn between the "Fuck Hasbro! This is awesome!" people and the "This is illegal and wrong!" people. Mysteriously, for better or worse, much of the FGC didn't know. But Maximillian streamed it for one day, which was cool. It was freakin' ALIVE online for about a month, then went away.

About a year later, Tribute Edition 2.0 was in the works, they streamed development for a little bit, tried to fix some really dumb stuff in Tribute Edition 1.0. They promised an April 2015 release date, but... it never happened. And that was the end of the story.

Honestly, there could be a documentary made on the combined stories of Mane6 and the Tribute Edition Rogues (Handsome, dashing, heroic rogues, but rogues nonetheless) and it would be a compelling tale of the human condition.
 
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Covenant said:
That's the issue. People were simply saying that it's okay to have rosters disparate roster in either direction or to have an equally represented roster. We then used other games as an example of overall equality between games. Then you bring up racism to say that people doing one thing doesnt make it ok. That comparison doesnt make sense because that not what everyone was talking about. If you believe that having only one gender in a game (especially one that is diverse everywhere else) is bad then you should make better comparisons, because what you're doing is comparing a harmless and morally faultless act akin to a girl-only club and comparing it racism.
You're blowing this way out of proportion; I'm not comparing this to racism, or anything like that. Not even anything close to that.
Here's the conversation that went on- stuff happened that lead to a conversation about the female only cast. Stuff happened after that. Someone said
Then go play literally hundreds of other games with guys in them, oh my actual fuck.
There's games with all-male casts, I don't hear complaints about that so why complain about girls?
Why does doing something just because other games don't do something a valid argument for doing the thing? In this case the "thing" is a cast that is all one gender, and the "not doing something" examples are games with diversity in the genders of their cast.
So I said
Hold on, because the "we have plenty of other examples of x not present" is NOT an excuse for someone to still do something.
We have lots of examples of people who aren't racist. Does that make it okay to be racist? No, right. A much heavier example, but equivalent.
In this case, the example of the "thing" is racism, and the "not doing something" example are people not being racist. That is an equivalent example. So someone said that the difference is that racism is something actually wrong, and a game having no males is not wrong. That is true, but that isn't my point, once again.
With my post I was not talking about the game's roster anymore. All I was pointing out was that what the person I was replying to said was not a valid argument- in this case, he was saying a "thing" was fine because other games didn't do the "thing". This had nothing to do with the game's roster anymore, and was solely me saying that this was not a reason to do the "thing".
 
holy shit, Velvet's (5B) 5C 3C is like the best midrange poke/confirm if the gameplay video is to be believed (yes, i keep going back to it and trying to dissect every bit of it. Also i can only guess thats what those attacks are because of their similarity to Rarity's respective moves).

Also are those counterhit sparks/flashes I see?
 
erkicman said:
About a year later, Tribute Edition 2.0 was in the works, they streamed development for a little bit, tried to fix some really dumb stuff in Tribute Edition 1.0. They promised an April 2015 release date, but... it never happened. And that was the end of the story.
They disbanded.
 
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