Unpopular gaming opinions

[Sanger Zonvolt]

I think Bethesda's games are poor products.

They're glitchy messes, combat without any depth, unappealing graphical style especially people's faces, the main stories don't have any direction, I honestly don't understand why the games are very popular outside of huge ad campaigns. The games don't present challenge and they don't have style to make up for it, they're just large empty games with no structure or intelligent design.

This is directed mostly at Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Skyrim.

 

[PaperBag_Sniper]

Holy walls of text batman! That converstion looks interesting but I'm staying out of it. I read the name David Cage and I know how these "is it a game" discussions go.

On topic: I think that the problems I have with the final fantasy series started with 6, but ultimately 7 screwed the series over because it got people more interested in "flashy" graphics and really poorly written character drama. Not saying FF 1-3 didn't have non-existant/laughable stories by themselves, but once the series hit 4 they started to really develop some good writing practices.

 

[Androu1]

Skyrim is shit because the combat is a fucking joke. Compare that shit combat to Souls and Dragon's Dogma.

Also a buggy piece of shit doesnt deserve that much praise and awards.

 

[alexpi]

Bethesda can eat a dick. I tried liking their games. My friends raved about how much you could do. I've only managed to beat one of their games. Morrowind saw crashes every other hour until I quit out of frustration. Oblivion was so boring that I just gave up. Skyrim glitched out when I tried to learn the first damned shout. I just couldn't get the game to recognize me pressing the interaction button. New Vegas saw me get to the end where the final goddamned mission bugged out and a quest vital character wouldn't go through a door. No amount of going back on save files would get him to go on. Not to mention the number of companions that were lost to the aether because I had the audacity to fast travel.
The only one I pushed through the bugs to beat was Fallout 3. And you know what? Fuck that too. You get to the end of the game and there's a room with fatal levels of radiation. Ignoring the fact that I had full radiation suits, it'd still kill the PC. But you know what? My companion was Fawkes, the Alpha Super Mutant. He's damn near immune to radiation. Before going into the death room, you get to have a conversation with your companion and the option "Wait, Fawkes, you're immune to radiation. Why don't you go in and put in the stop code?" I chose that and the game had the audacity to give me the 'bad' ending. Fuck you for judging me, game. You established that Fawkes was intelligent and immune to radiation. Why do I get punished for doing the action that saved the most lives?

 

[Vote4Pedro]

I like just about every game that you guys hate in this thread.

I am win!

 

[destruction_adv]

i think more independant developed games should go for having unique art assets rather than trying to appeal with faux-retro or bland anime type art

chiptune music is fine though

It depends, I've worked on games a bit in my time, and I can say that a lot of the time people want to get really good stuff for their game but can't afford it, or maybe that's just me, none of the games I've worked on have ever gotten finished either mainly because the cost of the art was too high.

Now to flip the coin...I don't think "retro" graphics should be a selling point. I'll admit that the current game I'm working on is mostly using default assets from RPG Maker because I'm broke. (While I'm on RPG Maker, not sure if this is unpopular, but I have more fun when I can code things more directly than inputting things in menus...I'm just not used to Ruby.) It's a game I'm making almost entirely on my own, I'm no artist, heck, even RPG Maker itself was a Christmas present.

 

[Tomo009]

I think Bethesda's games are poor products.

They're glitchy messes, combat without any depth, unappealing graphical style especially people's faces, the main stories don't have any direction, I honestly don't understand why the games are very popular outside of huge ad campaigns. The games don't present challenge and they don't have style to make up for it, they're just large empty games with no structure or intelligent design.

This is directed mostly at Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Skyrim.

I agree with most of this post yet I really like Skyrim, not as much as Morrowind of Fallout 1/2, but I like it.

Not a fan of Oblivion or what they did in Fallout 3 though.

EDIT: SOoooo much of people getting stuck on the semantics of "game" in this thread. Just take it as a broader interactive entertainment and stop worrying about whether something is a "game" or not. Either enjoy it for what it is, or ignore it if it doesn't interest you.

 

[Squire Grooktook]

Holy walls of text batman! That converstion looks interesting but I'm staying out of it. I read the name David Cage and I know how these "is it a game" discussions go..

Actually the convo was about sequels/franchises.

But anyway, yeah I'm sorry about the walls of text. I'd like to quit the convo too since imo there's nowhere to go but in circles now.

ANYWAY NEW TOPIC:

I think it's absolutely impossible to generate excitement without penalty for failure. Excitement comes from tension and tension comes from the unease that something bad could happen. In a fighting game, it's the fear that your opponent will one up you. In an arcade game, it's having to go back to the very beginning when you game over (same for speed running). In an action rpg, it's having to replay a 15 minute boss fight and dungeon.

Not that I'm saying that every single game needs penalty for failure, as some games are aiming for other things besides excitement. But imo, any game that wants to be exciting NEEDS penalty for failure in some shape or form.

 

[Horseman]

Yeah I'm sorry. I'd like to quit it to since imo there's nowhere to go but in circles now.

...yeah, I do too.
Especially because you write fast as fuck. I'd write a post over like 45 minutes and you'd respond in what seemed like 10 minutes or so...

EDIT: SOoooo much of people getting stuck on the semantics of "game" in this thread. Just take it as a broader interactive entertainment and stop worrying about whether something is a "game" or not. Either enjoy it for what it is, or ignore it if it doesn't interest you.

This. Very much this.

I think it's absolutely impossible to generate excitement without penalty for failure. Excitement comes from tension and tension comes from the unease that something bad could happen. In a fighting game, it's the fear that your opponent will one up you. In an arcade game, it's having to go back to the very beginning when you game over (same for speed running). In an action rpg, it's having to replay a 15 minute boss fight and dungeon.

Not that I'm saying that every single game needs penalty for failure, as some games are aiming for other things besides excitement. But imo, any game that wants to be exciting NEEDS penalty for failure in some shape or form.

Hotline Miami, Super Hexagon, Super Meat Boy, etc... It's almost easier to make a game exciting without lose states.
Tension can come from the simple fact that death means that you didn't win. It's not a lose state, but it still generates tension, and it comes without forcing the player to go back more than 30 seconds, which lets you make the game harder without making it tedious. Depending on the person, these games can actually be more exciting than ones with significant lose states.

 

[Squire Grooktook]

Hotline Miami, Super Hexagon, Super Meat Boy, etc... It's almost easier to make a game exciting without lose states.
Tension can come from the simple fact that death means that you didn't win. It's not a lose state, but it still generates tension, and it comes without forcing the player to go back more than 30 seconds, which lets you make the game harder without making it tedious. Depending on the person, these games can actually be more exciting than ones with significant lose states.

I wouldn't classify Super Meat Boy or any of those games as exciting/tense though, or at least not the kind of excitement or tension I'm talking about.

Maybe they have "thrill" or "hype" or maybe there's a sense of a rush to it, or a strong intensity, with that kind of short but intense gameplay, but I've never experienced the true tension (to the point of hands shaking, sweating, and thinking in my head "ohmygodohmygodohmygod", and most of all actually playing differently than you usually do) in anything that had less than 10 minutes of restart time or so (fighters are an exception though).

I'm very much not into that "bite sized" challenge type gameplay. I respect it, believe me, and I understand why many people enjoy it, but it's not for me. I personally feel that there's less differences in kind and that as a result multiple attempts tend to blend together into a more mindless repetitive exercise, the lack of true penalty also makes me not care about my actions as much ("oh? I did the wrong thing there? eh I"ll just hit restart, who cares" as opposed to "FUCK, that waste of resources is going haunt me for the rest of this struggle, I'm gonna have to have seriously plan around that and make up for it"), and like I said I've never experienced the same sense of tension in those types of games.

I've even gone back and played some of those types of games with an altered play style (no checkpoints in They Bleed Pixels, no death the stages from start to finish. Low death run Rogue Legacy. No damage running certain games, etc.) and it's definitely a completely different experience. It's like night and day. Not saying it's a better experience, and certainly not for everyone, but there's definitely an emotion present there that's not there otherwise.

 

[PaperBag_Sniper]

Actually the convo was about sequels/franchises.

But anyway, yeah I'm sorry about the walls of text. I'd like to quit the convo too since imo there's nowhere to go but in circles now.

No offense here, I love to post walls of text. It would be hypocritical of me to not like them from others. But circular conversations tend to go nowhere (hence why I tend to avoid the cycle of debating feminism on forums) so I can see wanting to get out.

 

[Squire Grooktook]

No offense here, I love to post walls of text. It would be hypocritical of me to not like them from others. But circular conversations tend to go nowhere (hence why I tend to avoid the cycle of debating feminism on forums) so I can see wanting to get out.

Well, maybe not quite circular as "we'll just have to agree to disagree at this point". Not that I think our standpoints were completely incompatible.

 

[SanoBaron]

everyone says guilty gear is super hard to understand yet I'm like "wait whut?"

 

[Horseman]

I wouldn't classify Super Meat Boy or any of those games as exciting/tense though, or at least not the kind of excitement or tension I'm talking about.

Maybe they have "thrill" or "hype" or maybe there's a sense of a rush to it, or a strong intensity, with that kind of short but intense gameplay, but I've never experienced the true tension (to the point of hands shaking, sweating, and thinking in my head "ohmygodohmygodohmygod", and most of all actually playing differently than you usually do) in anything that had less than 10 minutes of restart time or so (fighters are an exception though).

Funny, that pretty much covers the experience of playing super hexagon for me.
Remember that excitement is a subjective response to a game, not a quality of the game itself. The circumstances under which it happen are different for you and me and the rest of the world. It's really just personal preference.

 

[Squire Grooktook]

Funny, that pretty much covers the experience of playing super hexagon for me.
Remember that excitement is a subjective response to a game, not a quality of the game itself. The circumstances under which it happen are different for you and me and the rest of the world. It's really just personal preference.

Perhaps excitement is too broad a word. Maybe "tension" in general is better. Excitement might be a response that varies from person to person, but I think "tension" is something more systematic that can be built up and employed in a story or a game or even in music by following certain techniques.

I feel tension is very difficult to properly develop in a gameplay sense with "bite sized" challenges. It can be done, but I feel it depends more on the player and is not something that is intentionally built into the game in those cases (which carries with it a unique set of advantages and disadvantages).

While I know this is a matter of subjective taste, I can't help but feel that people who get a thrill/excitement out of Super Meat Boy are in most cases getting a very different kind of thrill/excitement out of it. One that is generally not dependent on tension (at least not any built into the game).

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

I think it's absolutely impossible to generate excitement without penalty for failure. Excitement comes from tension and tension comes from the unease that something bad could happen. In a fighting game, it's the fear that your opponent will one up you. In an arcade game, it's having to go back to the very beginning when you game over (same for speed running). In an action rpg, it's having to replay a 15 minute boss fight and dungeon.

Not that I'm saying that every single game needs penalty for failure, as some games are aiming for other things besides excitement. But imo, any game that wants to be exciting NEEDS penalty for failure in some shape or form.

I couldn't agree more with this statement.

I feel this is an issue with modern games in general as the penalties have become very small in most games.

 

[GirlyStyle]

i think i can count the stories of games i like on hand. i can defo think of games that are more mechanically driven or have some other kind of exterior element, i.e. fighting games, but as far as a medium dealing with story and themes i just think its pretty bad.

to offer something positive; i think the Resident Evil Remake is one of the most dynamically and interestingly designed visual experiences that exists.

For me, Astro Boy for the gameboy advance is the most interesting/best use of story in a game, in the way that it effects gameplay/player experience and people should just straight up rip it off.

GBA is best system ever.

 

[Horseman]

Perhaps excitement is too broad a word. Maybe "tension" in general is better. Excitement might be a response that varies from person to person, but I think "tension" is something more systematic that can be built up and employed in a story or a game or even in music by following certain techniques.

I feel tension is very difficult to properly develop in a gameplay sense with "bite sized" challenges. It can be done, but I feel it depends more on the player and is not something that is intentionally built into the game in those cases (which carries with it a unique set of advantages and disadvantages).

While I know this is a matter of subjective taste, I can't help but feel that people who get a thrill/excitement out of Super Meat Boy are in most cases getting a very different kind of thrill/excitement out of it. One that is generally not dependent on tension (at least not any built into the game).

I'm really trying to understand what exactly you mean when you say tension here, but it's difficult. You didn't really define it. And using the dictionary definition is a little on the vague side:

ten·sion

1.
a. The act or process of stretching something tight.
b. The condition of so being stretched; tautness.
2.
a. A force tending to stretch or elongate something.
b. A measure of such a force: a tension on the cable of 50 pounds.
3.
a. Mental, emotional, or nervous strain: working under great tension to make a deadline.
b. Barely controlled hostility or a strained relationship between people or groups: the dangerous tension between opposing military powers.
4. A balanced relation between strongly opposing elements: "the continuing, and essential, tension between two of the three branches of government, judicial and legislative" (Haynes Johnson).
5. The interplay of conflicting elements in a piece of literature, especially a poem.
6. A device for regulating tautness, especially a device that controls the tautness of thread on a sewing machine or loom.
7. Electricity Voltage or potential; electromotive force.

But as far as I can tell, when you say tension, you're essentially talking about a specific way to make play exciting, through the fear of losing something significant. And that, of course, works well since it's the method that's been used for decades, but in the end the reaction is the same emotion.
And yes, the experience is at least somewhat different with a lose state and without one, if that wasn't true you wouldn't have a preference in the first place.

i think i can count the stories of games i like on hand. i can defo think of games that are more mechanically driven or have some other kind of exterior element, i.e. fighting games, but as far as a medium dealing with story and themes i just think its pretty bad.

I guarantee you either:
1.) Aren't looking for good narratives in video games, and are instead looking for good traditional video games that happen to have stories sometimes.
2.) Just prefer your games without a narrativist slant.
3.) All of the above.

 

[Squire Grooktook]

"3.
a. Mental, emotional, or nervous strain: working under great tension to make a deadline."

Is probably closest to what I'm talking about. And what I'm saying is that I think it's not the same emotional reaction. I know it's a very fine and subtle difference, and again I'm not saying that there isn't excitement, hype, thrill, etc. But I do feel that true and heavy pressure, tension, and stress can create a very different kind of feel in moment to moment gameplay.

 

[GirlyStyle]

I guarantee you either:
1.) Aren't looking for good narratives in video games, and are instead looking for good traditional video games that happen to have stories sometimes.
2.) Just prefer your games without a narrativist slant.
3.) All of the above.

I guarantee that you don't know anything about me and are generalizing the heck out of my opinion.


I guarantee you don know how to start conversations with people without coming off as needlessly abrasive.


I guarantee I won't have this conversation with you if you have this kind of attitude.


See? It's easy! :)

 

[Squire Grooktook]

My personal favorite stories in games:

Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

Odin Sphere

Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne

Would expand on why I like them but don't feel like doing a shit ton of typing for once.

 

[Horseman]

I guarantee that you don't know anything about me and are generalizing the heck out of my opinion.


I guarantee you don know how to start conversations with people without coming off as needlessly abrasive.


I guarantee I won't have this conversation with you if you have this kind of attitude.

Your opinion is a fallacy. "I don't like X therefore X cannot be done correctly." There's no need to come to the conclusion that the entire medium can't do something well based on "the amount of stories of games you can count on hand."
I essentially said that you either don't like narratives in games or you're getting bad experiences of them. It's not much of a stretch, assuming I dismiss "narrative games are just objectively bad" out of hand, since it's disrespectful to everyone who would actually like to see games grow as a narrative medium and overall just ridiculously closed minded.
If I come off as rude to you, that's probably because people have started more or less this exact conversation 3+ times in this thread alone.

 

[GirlyStyle]

Your opinion is a fallacy. "I don't like X therefore X cannot be done correctly." There's no need to come to the conclusion that the entire medium can't do something well based on "the amount of stories of games you can count on hand."
I essentially said that you either don't like narratives in games or you're getting bad experiences of them. It's not much of a stretch, assuming I dismiss "narrative games are just objectively bad" out of hand, since it's disrespectful to everyone who would actually like to see games grow as a narrative medium and overall just ridiculously closed minded.

I uh....never said I didn't think they can be done correctly.

I am of the opinion that video games are super dope for the high ceiling games have as a narrative experience and even cite a game where I thought that kind of experience was top notch and where I thought game making people could possibly look for inspiration.

So yeah! Maybe next time try having a conversation instead of assuming and then hey who knows maybe it will be fun.


Also

If I come off as rude to you, that's probably because people have started more or less this exact conversation 3+ times in this thread alone.

That's a reason to be rude to someone? You couldn't have just...not talked to me?

My personal favorite stories in games:

Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

Odin Sphere

Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne

Would expand on why I like them but don't feel like doing a shit ton of typing for once.

Majoras mask is one of those fingers on that hand![/quote]

 

[Squire Grooktook]

I don't think what Horseman said was rude.

 

[Horseman]

I uh....never said I didn't think they can be done correctly.

I am of the opinion that video games are super dope for the high ceiling games have as a narrative experience and even cite a game where I thought that kind of experience was top notch and where I thought game making people could possibly look for inspiration.

So yeah! Maybe next time try having a conversation instead of assuming and then hey who knows maybe it will be fun.

You said that the resident evil remake was a "good visual experience." That's vague as hell. Combined with the first statement it certainly sounds like you were saying games can't tell stories well, but they can be artistic as a visual experience.

That's a reason to be rude to someone? You couldn't have just...not talked to me?

I wasn't being intentionally rude, that was my explanation since you seemed to think I was trying to be.

 

[SanoBaron]

I don't think Metroid Other M was poorly written as a whole, but it should have been put EARLIER in the timeline for Samus.

I also think the David Cage jokes are starting to get a TEENY bit stale.

and I've been playing DmC, and I like it.

 

[Balder]

Here's a SG-related one: I would prefer if Skullgirls' wasn't so meme/reference heavy.
I think reference palettes are great but that's where I'd draw the line. A clear example is Big Band's "My planet needs me." Sure, it's amusing and I'm certain we ALL thought about it when we first saw that animation play but does it really make any sense, contextwise?
The characters are already getting gag voice packs (which is a idea I love and think other games should embrace) so, IMHO the "standard" lines should be about fleshing out a character's personality and interactions. Not saying I'm wholly against jokes here and there but a little more subtlety would be appreciated. There's other examples but right now only BB's comes to mind.
Just a minor thing.

 

[Ruin]

the context is that Big Band is the protector of the entire planet that they're on
he is the funky savior that we need
but not the funky savior we deserve

 

[juju_for_president]

Here's a SG-related one: I would prefer if Skullgirls' wasn't so meme/reference heavy.
I think reference palettes are great but that's where I'd draw the line. A clear example is Big Band's "My planet needs me." Sure, it's amusing and I'm certain we ALL thought about it when we first saw that animation play but does it really make any sense, contextwise?
The characters are already getting gag voice packs (which is a idea I love and think other games should embrace) so, IMHO the "standard" lines should be about fleshing out a character's personality and interactions. Not saying I'm wholly against jokes here and there but a little more subtlety would be appreciated. There's other examples but right now only BB's comes to mind.
Just a minor thing.

I totally understand finding Skullgirls too meme and reference heavy, as there are quite a few, to say the least.

I personally don't mind them at all, because I find that the characters still manage to be fleshed out by the standard lines that they do have. A number of Ms. Fortune's lines when fighting Cerebella, for instance, do a really good job of showing her character. So long as there are enough of that kinds of dialogue, I'm totally okay with memes and stuff, and at the moment, I find that there are enough to allow for the current amount of references.

Still, one's view of how many references is too many is completely subjective, so I can see where you are coming from.

 

[PaperBag_Sniper]

Here's a SG-related one: I would prefer if Skullgirls' wasn't so meme/reference heavy.
I think reference palettes are great but that's where I'd draw the line. A clear example is Big Band's "My planet needs me." Sure, it's amusing and I'm certain we ALL thought about it when we first saw that animation play but does it really make any sense, contextwise?
The characters are already getting gag voice packs (which is a idea I love and think other games should embrace) so, IMHO the "standard" lines should be about fleshing out a character's personality and interactions. Not saying I'm wholly against jokes here and there but a little more subtlety would be appreciated. There's other examples but right now only BB's comes to mind.
Just a minor thing.

"Can i have a cheesburger?"

I'm in a similar camp, I like memes but I've seen that an over-reliance on them for humor or content (see Borderlands 2) can be a detrement to a game. Big Band has a lot of intro and a couple of outro lines that don't really make sense given the game. (Hold the jam close to your chest? Yeah he's a music themed fighter but a little more context for that please?)

Now every line he has in comment to other characters are perfect, His Squigly line in particular is both humorous and a neat reference to a song by the same name by The Georgians.

 

[KaboomKid]

A clear example is Big Band's "My planet needs me." Sure, it's amusing and I'm certain we ALL thought about it when we first saw that animation play but does it really make any sense, contextwise?

Yeah, I get what you mean, and I kind of agree. I guess I imagine that when the characters say these sorts of lines, they're just being silly themselves. Some of these memes might exist in their world too, so there could be some context for them. Besides, you probably need a good sense of humor when you're a man with a tuba stuck to your butt.

Here are a couple SG related ones from me:
-I think the current patching schedule is fine for now, especially since the game is still in heavy development.
-I think dark-skinned Filia should have been the default palette.
-I like Regina.

 

[boomgoesthemite]

I hate overused and easy to use characters *COUGH RYU COUGH*

 

[SanoBaron]

I think megaman is going to be the worst character in the new smash bros.

 

[DDB]

I hate overused and easy to use characters *COUGH RYU COUGH*

Since when is this an unpopular opinion?

I think megaman is going to be the worst character in the new smash bros.

... HERETIC.

 

[SanoBaron]

... HERETIC.

Spoiler

 

[PaperBag_Sniper]

Speaking of TF2, when they were first rolling out class updates I thought that the Medic, Heavy, and Pyro updates were really great. The updates complemented each class and gave them new playstyles but kept them from feeling too alien. (In particular the Pyro's Backburner gave a 100% critical hit to all back attacks, something even competent pyro would have to work.). The scout update had only one item I would consider bad, but otherwise gave scouts some more staying power. The bad updates started with the sniper/spy update and they didn't get much better after that. (With the possible exception of the Soldier)

Also, tying these weapons to the class specific achievement milestones was a great way to get people (like myself) to try other classes and actually get better at them. When the community complained and Valve took the milestones system away, weapons were based on random drops. That was a terrible move in my books. Now TF2 is borderline an MMO with it's weapons and crafting system and I can't say I like the change.

 

[boomgoesthemite]

Since when is this an unpopular opinion

SINCE NEVER

 

[KaboomKid]

-I always wished TF2 wasn't a FPS, and the gameplay had been something closer to General Chaos.

he is the funky savior that we need
but not the funky savior we deserve

-I think we only deserve one funky savior:

(funky fresh even)

 

[Squire Grooktook]

the context is that Big Band is the protector of the entire planet that they're on
he is the funky savior that we need
but not the funky savior we deserve

My favorite reference in the entire game is Big Band saying that you will be prosecuted to the full extent of the jam.

I freaked out a little bit. I Knew I had to add him to my team the moment he said that.

 

[Vladislav_Paizis]

Since when is this an unpopular opinion?

Many SRK guys will say that he's an "important character to the gameplay" because he's supposed to teach new players fundamentals like footsies.