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...I've shown up to this party late

As I put my head to my Mini 4 fightstick, the RAP V arrives!

4c1f2079289e4a01c896cd21ee4aea14.jpg


the epic quest....to suck less
 
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Very few people use Valentine's Level 2 blockbuster, Countervenom. I have avoided it because it's a tough one to pull off in a match, and the super itself isn't an attack. Even though I know the trick to pulling of 'Z' patterns, they can still be tough to execute. This really just means I need to grind it out in the training room. I have a video that uses Countervenom tucked away in my notebook, so at least i have this all laid out in front of me.


After putting off learning new material for a few weeks (a much needed break), i'm ready to learn new things. I have been ignoring Val ever since I picked up Fukua. Thankfully, Fukua is easy enough to use so I can concentrate on my main character again.

the epic quest....to suck less
 
Well... naturally by itself with out any loaded vials, Val's counter super only freezes the opponent in their attack. It doesn't really provide anything other than an optimal jumping combo punish. With a vial loading CounterVenom will strike and deal damage and the full lvl3 effect of a vial even if you only had one lvl loaded in when you countered. I forget just how many frames you have to pull off a counter but either way it's a very very small window and in the heat of higher lvl play stagger pressure can just easily by pass the counter by a couple of frames leaving Val wide open for a combo.

CounterVenom is beneficially very high risk for... pretty good reward. You can deal 11k or so with you are optimal with a CounterVenom combo, that is with the poison vial. Hitstun can get to 10k or something if you are watching your IPS [something that I have problem when doing a green vial combo], the lag vial I'm sure no body uses outside of wanting to do a quick reset and to have the opponent not have their reversal come out in time.
 
Ninja said:
Well... naturally by itself with out any loaded vials, Val's counter super only freezes the opponent in their attack. It doesn't really provide anything other than an optimal jumping combo punish. With a vial loading CounterVenom will strike and deal damage and the full lvl3 effect of a vial even if you only had one lvl loaded in when you countered. I forget just how many frames you have to pull off a counter but either way it's a very very small window and in the heat of higher lvl play stagger pressure can just easily by pass the counter by a couple of frames leaving Val wide open for a combo.

CounterVenom is beneficially very high risk for... pretty good reward. You can deal 11k or so with you are optimal with a CounterVenom combo, that is with the poison vial. Hitstun can get to 10k or something if you are watching your IPS [something that I have problem when doing a green vial combo], the lag vial I'm sure no body uses outside of wanting to do a quick reset and to have the opponent not have their reversal come out in time.
i mean you can use it consistently as pbgc on some blockstrings and multihits moves that you know the opponent will not cancel
 
eh true... but idk. The super is situational and it can be hard to time it out just right to nab your opponent.

NOW... you can use the super to counter assist characters to either freeze them... [which is handy when you want to get a birthday or something...] or to slap them with a huge hit/poison or lag or hitstun. and this will last the time limit of a lvl 3 but only when the assist character is out. If they're on the bench and they jump into the match after a tag out or a downed character they will still have the vial effect on them.
 
the blockstring pbgc thing is great because that lvl 2 super has a huge hitbox, and you can use to counter the assist and it has a nice chance of hitting the point
 
Ninja said:
Well... naturally by itself with out any loaded vials, Val's counter super only freezes the opponent in their attack. It doesn't really provide anything other than an optimal jumping combo punish.
Yeah, you only turn your opponent's offence into a lvl 1 vial load and an 8k+ punish...

Sure, it is pretty situational but if you are sure your opponent is going to attack you or you PBGC it then you get a huge reward. Because of that, it is worth learning to use it properly.
 
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Dang, I say something and this thread gets so lively. It's great that so many people become involved here and always offer words of wisdom.

From the videos i'm using for training and conversations with other Val players, her level 2 super seems to REALLY only be desired under one of 2 situations:

1. You are expecting your opponent to do something, possibly a random attack (you are hoping your opponent will try to jab or counter)

2. You are creating a situation where you believe your opponent will hit a button, then surprise!

The super itself isn't that useful, and without a vial it doesn't appear to even be a good option as compared to scalpel or EKG counters. For what I am beginning to work on, I want to create situation #2. This probably won't be a common thing, but it would be a great mix up to my current game plan. My bag of tricks is small, and people usually know my routine after a couple matches.

the epic quest....to suck less
 
I'd say you usually want to use it either when the opponent is pressuring you (either via PBGC or in a gap in their pressure) or when you are doing a reset/mixup on wake up where you are very confident they will mash (you could call assist to make yourself safe I guess).

I think it is nearly as useful even when you don't get the vial counter as this still allows for huge damage, a lvl 1 vial load and resets (Val can do 8.9k damage off of a HCH and that is without poison vial, with vial you get 9.8k). I wouldn't use Scalpels as an invincible super btw, it has lots of recovery and isn't as invincible as EKG.

You can think of counter as being a high risk, high reward alternative to EKG (if you want any followup from EKG you need to DHC but this also means you can do a safe DHC if it's blocked).
 
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As I am learning a new combo and a new tool in Valentine's Bag-O-Tricks, I have finally learned how to do something that I have been trying to do for a very long time. I'm finally beginning to do a Val combo where you must land and then rejump to continue said combo (like j.HK > land > rejump > j.LP > ...). I'm only able to pull it off in the training room, and I do have the game running at 75% speed...but I'm finally doing it!

Finally

F****** finally.

I'm not much for swearing in my old age

the epic quest....to suck less
 
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For rejump combos, I just hold up while Val is falling and hit j.lp as soon as she leaves the ground. I don't feel as though it's possible to hit j.lk too early for it to whiff. You can definitely hit the button too late however.

Also Val's lvl2 counter is pretty fun to use if you can get a read on them.
Example: (Near the 2:01 mark)

And then you die cuz you're laughing too hard at Josh in a discord call and don't care about winning because you know he'll never be that cool.
 
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Lex said:
when you are doing a reset/mixup on wake up where you are very confident they will mash

I'm glad you said this when I don't think anyone else did?
It's GREAT for this.

If you've learned to 'reset into block' then you'll love 'reset into counter.'

When you make the right read, an offensive counter can scare an opponent straight so that they will STOP PRESSING BUTTONS and also they probably die to a countervenom combo.
And any non-countervenom counter just gets you 1 free vial, couple that with an assist and an HCH starter, and you're still doing loads of damage.
 
Lex said:
or when you are doing a reset/mixup on wake up where you are very confident they will mash (you could call assist to make yourself safe I guess).

Time for more dumb questions! When you say 'wake up', what does that mean? Is that like...where after you do a hard knockdown on an opponent?

You can think of counter as being a high risk, high reward alternative to EKG (if you want any followup from EKG you need to DHC but this also means you can do a safe DHC if it's blocked).

I have begun to mash a super while locked down in a corner to try to counter. Gllt recently taught me this, and it has helped me out many times. Val's lvl 2 super would be another tool to use, but that is something that will take a lot more practice. I'm just happy that I am finally learning things that has been holding me back.



the epic quest....to suck less[/QUOTE]
 
Now that I actually read what Gllt and Lex said, they're right.
Also, sliding hard knockdown them into the corner with s.hk(x3), cancel into vial load (optional), dash up, lvl2 their wake up into tea bag(also optional) into combo is the most hilarious and demoralizing thing you could possibly do to someone as a Val player.

With vial loaded, lvl2 is also great for countering players that love doing squiggly's j.hp or double's s.hp or bella's fwd.hp waaaaaay too much that it's predictable. With extended hitboxes, if you counter even the very tip of the move, Val will teleport straight to the character when she injects the opponent with the needle.
Example with crappy non-optimal combo:
 
Well no new progress on my new combo. It's a really difficult transition between 75% speed and normal speed. I forget how fast paced the game is until I play around with game speed. And after a couple days in the training room, I was a mess in the lobbies.

I do learn more in the training room, but I do find that I lose my touch against human opponents quickly. I do have some footage, and by some i mean a lot...and by footage, I mean bloodbath.

At least I feel like a real fighting game player, going up against opponents I've only watched up until now

Yay Monday...
 
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Skodial said:
As I put my head to my Mini 4 fightstick, the RAP V arrives!

4c1f2079289e4a01c896cd21ee4aea14.jpg


the epic quest....to suck less
Have you experienced any issue in transitioning from the mini to the big guy? Are they that much different?

ATM the mini is still more than I need but at a certain point I'll buy a rap something.
 
ribaluigi said:
Have you experienced any issue in transitioning from the mini to the big guy? Are they that much different?

ATM the mini is still more than I need but at a certain point I'll buy a rap something.

There has been the general issue of "jebus this thing is huge". But it hasn't been as bad as I was expecting. I bought the RAP V because of the button layout. Everything is so much closer together than the RAP 4, and that has made a difference.

I know many people love the Madcatz fightsticks, but I would never buy a Madcatz product. I won't go into a rant about their products and my experiences with them as a kid. I sound old enough on here as it is. Im sure their TE lineup is great, but I can't get over the last Madcatz controller. I'm not sure why, but I really like Hori as a brand.

the epic quest....to suck less
 
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putting ''the epic quest....to suck less'' into your signature, since you always say that in the end of your posts
 
Fedora_Ninja said:
For rejump combos, I just hold up while Val is falling and hit j.lp as soon as she leaves the ground. I don't feel as though it's possible to hit j.lk too early for it to whiff. You can definitely hit the button too late however.

When I finally got the timing down to rejump, I read this and raged silently. But this is helping with making the j.LP happen. I'm still rarely able to make it past that, but being at this point does feel good. It took FOREVER
 
Two thoughts while I should be doing my job:

1. I have a lot of notes that I need to go over. So...let's make a video about new notes.

2. I spend too much time in casual lobbies. Staying up an hour past my bedtime to get a single win doesn't work. Going 0/15 only hurts my feelings, and I get salty instead of taking time to figure out what I did wrong and right. I can't wait for Get GR8 Saturday.
 
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Fukua:
You can confirm off of Fukua's level 3 with dash up MK btw and you can convert off of her throw and fast command throw with BFF.
As Fukua try to use cr.LK, MK to start your combos, if you see that it hits then continue into your combo, if it is blocked then stop. You should practice hitconfirming like this as it stops you from autopiloting into unsafe things on block (e.g. you were ending your Fukua blockstrings with cr.HK or Drill or even drill super). If you really need a super that you can use to keep yourself safe on block then use the fireball super as it is safe unless PBGC'd.
I'd also recommend using Drill a bit less often in neutral as it is unsafe on block (unless you cancel into fireball).

Val:
You're still starting combos/blockstrings with MP.
I'd use Bypass less often, especially up close. If you miss or it gets blocked then you can do nothing till you hit the ground so you are very easy to punish. If you want to use H Bypass to get in then you can make it safe with scalpels super.
You also always go for throw when you do resets, you need to mix it up a bit and go low as well. A combo off of cr.LK will give you much more damage than off a throw so you should be doing the throw resets in order to train your opponent to hold up back so that you can catch them with a low.

Vs Bella you should try being more patient. Val and Fukua can both easily stay out of Bella's range and chuck projectiles at her. This allows you to do small amounts of damage over time and make your opponent impatient, making them more likely to make mistakes. You need to be careful of Bella's deflector but since Val and Fukua throw their projectiles from weird angles this isn't too big a problem. You did do this somewhat but far too often you would go in vs LFO for no real reason other than impatience and it got you killed. If you want to see a good example of Val played like this then have a look at Outlaw_Spike as he plays a very good keepaway Val.

You did a good job at being patient and waiting for holes in LFO's Peacock zoning though. It's easy to get frustrated in situations like that but you waited for openings and punished LFO's mistakes.
 
Lex said:
Fukua:
You can confirm off of Fukua's level 3 with dash up MK btw and you can convert off of her throw and fast command throw with BFF.

I do know this. But even in the training room, I am unable to make it over to where the opponent falls to convert. I try to run but never make it. And I struggle in the training room to convert off throws still. I'm trying to think of a way to work this out.

As Fukua try to use cr.LK, MK to start your combos, if you see that it hits then continue into your combo, if it is blocked then stop. You should practice hitconfirming like this as it stops you from autopiloting into unsafe things on block (e.g. you were ending your Fukua blockstrings with cr.HK or Drill or even drill super).

Sigh....something else I know. But yes, I go into autopilot hoping to connect. I see how often I get punished for it. And I still don't know the right inputs for each of Fukua's supers, so some drills were by mistake.

I'd also recommend using Drill a bit less often in neutral as it is unsafe on block (unless you cancel into fireball).

This was something I did not know until last night. I thought H. Drillationship was +/- 0. And I have not thought about cancelling into fireball.

Val:
You're still starting combos/blockstrings with MP.

(face palm) ((a little embarrassed))

I'm still unable to break that habit. I'm trying. This is another thing where I'm not sure how to unlearn this.

If you want to use H Bypass to get in then you can make it safe with scalpels super.

Can you really do this? Like if Bypass is blocked, you can mash scalpels?

You also always go for throw when you do resets, you need to mix it up a bit and go low as well. A combo off of cr.LK will give you much more damage than off a throw so you should be doing the throw resets in order to train your opponent to hold up back so that you can catch them with a low.

That throw reset is my first ever reset, and it's an autopilot thing that I do (even when it isn't working). Against some opponents, the low reset with c. LK works. And I have don't the math to see the damage difference. But I am beginning to think that the whole combo won't work anymore against tougher players because everyone can see it coming

Vs Bella you should try being more patient. Val and Fukua can both easily stay out of Bella's range and chuck projectiles at her.

I struggle so much against Bella. I consider her my second worst matchup.


far too often you would go in vs LFO for no real reason other than impatience and it got you killed.

He has my number. I had absolutely nothing for him. Its like he knew every move I was going to make. I pretty sure he gave the two wins I had against him. I dont mind that at all, because it was a bloodbath otherwise.


You did a good job at being patient and waiting for holes in LFO's Peacock zoning though. It's easy to get frustrated in situations like that but you waited for openings and punished LFO's mistakes.

One of the very few situations where I feel confident is against Peacock. Fukua needs more work, but I feel like I can handle myself with Val.

I mean...I think I'm getting better. I want to think the last match in the video was one of my best ever. I felt confident, looked confident, didn't drop combos, mixed up a couple things that connected, and even pulled off my new combo (even tho he didn't take the burst bait).

I've spent weeks thinking that I haven't improved, and lost a lot of confidence. Even with all the time spent in the training room, I couldn't improve in any way. This probably was a vicious cycle. Last night was the first time in a month where I saw myself as a better player.
 
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Skodial said:
I do know this. But even in the training room, I am unable to make it over to where the opponent falls to convert. I try to run but never make it. And I struggle in the training room to convert off throws still. I'm trying to think of a way to work this out.
For lvl 3 just start dashing as soon as she hits the wall (you need to hold forward to get the continuous dash) and you should reach the opponent fast enough to OTG with MK. For throw, you just mash qcb KK as quickly as possible (this also uses up your OTG).

Skodial said:
I'm still unable to break that habit. I'm trying. This is another thing where I'm not sure how to unlearn this.
This will just come with practice. Try and keep it in your mind while you're playing and eventually you will have completely broken the habit.
Skodial said:
Can you really do this? Like if Bypass is blocked, you can mash scalpels?
Yep. I doubt you can visually confirm whether it was blocked or it hit so you'll have to do it pre-emptively, but it makes the bypass safe and you can still convert off of it. I think this leaves you either safe or + on block (haven't tested it) so this is a good way to get in vs some opponents if you don't mind spending the meter. If the scalpels are blocked then be on the lookout for the opponent trying to airthrow you.
Skodial said:
That throw reset is my first ever reset, and it's an autopilot thing that I do (even when it isn't working). Against some opponents, the low reset with c. LK works. And I have don't the math to see the damage difference. But I am beginning to think that the whole combo won't work anymore against tougher players because everyone can see it coming
Throws start your combos off at 50% scaling which is why they do less damage. cr.LK is the safer option as even if your opponent blocks it, you still have them in blockstun and you can further pressure them whereas with the throw, you will either be put back to neutral or in a disadvantageous position where your throw whiffed. Low/throw mixups are very powerful and you should make sure to keep it varied when you go for the reset here (after all, if your opponent always knows what you will go for at your reset then you might as well just finish the combo).
Skodial said:
I mean...I think I'm getting better. I want to think the last match in the video was one of my best ever. I felt confident, looked confident, didn't drop combos, mixed up a couple things that connected, and even pulled off my new combo (even tho he didn't take the burst bait).

I've spent weeks thinking that I haven't improved, and lost a lot of confidence. Even with all the time spent in the training room, I couldn't improve in any way. This probably was a vicious cycle. Last night was the first time in a month where I saw myself as a better player.
You are definitely improving. I think that improvement was especially visible vs Peacock because most people will become impatient in those situations but you played it exactly right. Your combos are also getting more consistent and you are using your character's tools much better. If you feel like you aren't improving then you should have a look at some of your older matches and look at the differences between then and now. It's difficult to tell when you are getting better because it is usually a gradual thing, it is only by looking back that you can tell how much you've improved.
 
The real use for Counter with a Vial loaded is stopping assistbacked pressure.
There is literally no way for them to stop an assist from attacking once its called, so when you see it come in you can always crank out that super.
Even if the point blocks it's safe & you just busted their assist for 50% of its life. If the point isn't blocking, you are now killing two characters.

It is rather potent at stopping the opponent from calling assist at all.
 
Lex said:
For lvl 3 just start dashing as soon as she hits the wall (you need to hold forward to get the continuous dash) and you should reach the opponent fast enough to OTG with MK. For throw, you just mash qcb KK as quickly as possible (this also uses up your OTG).

Oh. I was trying to dash as soon as the attack threw the opponent at the wall. Well now I have something new to try out. That was an easy solution.

Throws start your combos off at 50% scaling which is why they do less damage. cr.LK is the safer option as even if your opponent blocks it, you still have them in blockstun and you can further pressure them whereas with the throw, you will either be put back to neutral or in a disadvantageous position where your throw whiffed. Low/throw mixups are very powerful and you should make sure to keep it varied when you go for the reset here

Maybe I should use c.LK as a default for a while, just to show a change. OR, maybe, rejump and do j.MP, J.HP(I know this works), or j.HK. OK, those looks like options that would keep people guessing

I think that improvement was especially visible vs Peacock because most people will become impatient in those situations but you played it exactly right.

I like to...bypass Peacock's spam parade.
And bad (good) puns.

If you feel like you aren't improving then you should have a look at some of your older matches and look at the differences between then and now.

They are kinda painful to watch lol. But, that might mean that I am improving.
 
IsaVulpes said:
The real use for Counter with a Vial loaded is stopping assistbacked pressure.
There is literally no way for them to stop an assist from attacking once its called, so when you see it come in you can always crank out that super.
Even if the point blocks it's safe & you just busted their assist for 50% of its life. If the point isn't blocking, you are now killing two characters.

It is rather potent at stopping the opponent from calling assist at all.

Can I use the level 2 to actually freeze the assist the same way it freezes the point character?
 
Skodial said:
Can I use the level 2 to actually freeze the assist the same way it freezes the point character?
Yes.
 
Random adventure in SG:

Penumbra, a super nice guy, holds weekly casual tournaments. After watching for a few weeks, I decided that I like pain and gave it a whack. There is no footage. Graphic content probably isn't allowed here. I got two blocked hits in. At least I wasn't perfect'd on the stream.

While I learned nothing, I wasn't expecting to. I did have a tiny chance in the loser's bracket tho, where I pulled off my new combo!

...of course I'll return.

While Facade put on a great clinic (at my expense), it is cool to just get the chance to play against players like Facade. For having 4 months total of experience in fighting games, I ain't doing too bad right now.
 
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Hey there, Hillbilly!

You added me on Steam a while ago and we chatted for a bit. I played Fukua/Double/Big Band and we played casual matches before Liam joined in and kicked our butts for a few games before dipping, LOL.

My advice to you for learning BnB's from a fellow noob is this: Break the combos down string by string. What I mean by that is if your combo begins with like, c.lk -> s.mk -> s.hp, then do that over and over and over and over and over again until the process becomes automatic. That way, you can probably do a double-whammy and unlearn that habit of starting your combos with s.mp on Val (IIRC c.lk is usually a good combo starter for a ton of characters, at least for the ones I play)! Do that same process again and again, and that way it will be really easy for you to troubleshoot any section of a combo that is difficult, because the rest is so easy and totally-not-frustrating to do!

Hopefully that made some sense. Feel free to message me if you ever want to play some matches.
 
Hammerschmidt said:
Hey there, Hillbilly!

You added me on Steam a while ago and we chatted for a bit. I played Fukua/Double/Big Band and we played casual matches before Liam joined in and kicked our butts for a few games before dipping, LOL.

Oh, I rememebe that day well. Liam rolls in with a character I've never seen him use, and takes out everything

My advice to you for learning BnB's from a fellow noob is this: Break the combos down string by string. What I mean by that is if your combo begins with like, c.lk -> s.mk -> s.hp, then do that over and over and over and over and over again until the process becomes automatic.

The new combo that I have learned requires that I start my combo with c.LK > c.MK (1 hit) > c.HP . I still auto hit MP many times to convert, but I am at least starting all combos a little more often without it.

Every new step I take is still frustrating. But new things only takes days to learn instead of weeks. Thats been a big relief. Everyone has one thing that really holds them back in SG, and this may be my thing (for now)

Next time I see you online, I'll invite you to a lobby
 
Happy days, the forums are back up!

This past Sunday morning (when most people are sleeping), I ventured into the quick match lobby...and didn't suck.

And while the forums were down, I dug deep into the youtubes and found a new Fukua combo. Thinking back on it, I've seen just about every single Fukua player use it on me. But that's beside the point. This new combo isn't in this video. I'm working on it, and thankfully it's a fairly simple combo

Here's me sucking less [emoji1]

 
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Sigh...

I really wish I had good things to post here about how I've been playing this week, and how I've finally been able to keep my nerves under control at Get GR8 this week.

I really don't see much to say

I did get a win in my match up. At least it wasn't a complete bloodbath. But I put the stick down for the day and realize that I've lost all confidence. I feel that I need help.

I'm not sure if my biggest issue is:

1. Not consistent enough with combos (losing lots of damage)
2. Blocking incorrectly
3. Not using assist enough /correctly
4. Not learning things from matches (things you don't learn from the training room that I may spend too much time in)

I kinda feel lost as to what to do next. If anyone who plays me has anything, even if it's criticism, I'll take it.

My matches from today start at the 1:04 mark

https://www.twitch.tv/skullgirls_get_gr8/v/73188687
 
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I watched your matches at get gr8. Considering I played you beforehand, I really feel you could have taken Navy_Pheonix for all three matches but you sorta let your nerves get to you.

I kinda feel the same about when I played you. The first match i had my nerves under more control and then you pulled yourself together for those two wins.

Oh yea, you also seem really freaked out by Beowulf. He gives me trouble if I try and go in on him with aerial moves, but sticking to the ground and using AA's mostly solves that. Also, I find he is more dangerous to rush down without his chair simply because of the nature of his new moves. Bait out the move where he flies through the air howling, it's quite easy to punish if you're right next to him when he's done.
 
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