• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

...I've shown up to this party late

Being consistent is the only way I will pull off wins like this more often.

Finally can beat Deku now
 

Attachments

  • 20160801223427_1.jpg
    20160801223427_1.jpg
    229.7 KB · Views: 488
I wish you'd made a video of your victory against deku. Does consistency mean hit-confirming into combos more? What exactly do you mean by consistent?

Congrats on your victory though, and hitting that milestone with Bella. What's next on the list?
 
Skodial said:
My goal before this weekend? Find a Bella reset. I have one, but it's a super obvious one. It works most of the time, but after a longer set, people can see it
Learn the cr.MK, RS resets. That will teach you how to run stop which is very important and it basically gives you every option you could want for a reset (side switch, burst bait + knockdown, air grab, meaty, etc).
 
  • Like
Reactions: fenster
Beta Ray Bill said:
I wish you'd made a video of your victory against deku. Does consistency mean hit-confirming into combos more? What exactly do you mean by consistent?

Congrats on your victory though, and hitting that milestone with Bella. What's next on the list?

Consistency as in:

1. Not dropping a combo, which meant lost damage and field position.
2. Picking up on hit confirms successfully more often.
3. Blocking as often as possible, even when jumping forward.

I know these are simple and basic objectives in any fighting game, but actually doing (or not doing) these things made a difference last night. This was at 11pm on a Monday night. I wasn't expecting to be playing out of my mind, so I was not recording. I grabbed this for myself. I'm not sure what is next...i'm still recovering from the hype this match gave me
 
Lex said:
Learn the cr.MK, RS resets. That will teach you how to run stop which is very important and it basically gives you every option you could want for a reset (side switch, burst bait + knockdown, air grab, meaty, etc).
I use this in my combo, and most always go for pummel horse. I've also learned the timing to do either a same side reset or go for the crossunder. This has taught me how Bella likes to play, and how to become more comfortable woth all of her grabs. I like this type of reset, so I'm looking through the forums of other things I can do with the cMK > tumble run
 
Skodial said:
I use this in my combo, and most always go for pummel horse.
Don't do pummel horse. It is quite slow and REALLY punishable on block. Instead, do RS, j.HP for the instant overhead as this is likely about the same speed (if not faster), doesn't scale your combo and allows for follow-up pressure. It requires higher execution but you will be wanting to learn to RS anyway so you may as well get used to it.

Also, if you haven't seen it already, Dragonos has two Bella reset compilation videos (beginner and advanced) which have some really good resets/baits (plus some hype but less useful ones). The Bella resets video I made is mostly just Dragonos' resets but with some of the really impractical ones removed.
 
Lex said:
Don't do pummel horse. It is quite slow and REALLY punishable on block.

But it looks soooo cool....

Instead, do RS, j.HP for the instant overhead as this is likely about the same speed (if not faster), doesn't scale your combo and allows for follow-up pressure. It requires higher execution but you will be wanting to learn to RS anyway so you may as well get used to it.

I'm getting more comfortable with the command runs, so now is probably a good time to learn to use runstops for stuff like this

Also, if you haven't seen it already, Dragonos has two Bella reset compilation videos (beginner and advanced) which have some really good resets/baits (plus some hype but less useful ones). The Bella resets video I made is mostly just Dragonos' resets but with some of the really impractical ones removed.

I have not seen that video yet, but I am running over to your channel right meow
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lex
Didn't watch all of it, but wanted to highlight certain things.

11:43 - Full Screen Scalpels vs Parasoul. It worked out in this case, but really not a good decision as a Val player. Parasoul recovers way too fast to actually get hit by that. Your opponent just stopped holding back for some reason. Also, if Parasoul has meter, she can instantly react to that with sniper super. Instead, keep throwing your own projectiles. Valentine's air shurikens can sometimes be thrown at angles where her angled napalm shot can't hit. Also, with the correct timing and spacing, Valentine's ground shuriken can go under Parasoul's napalm shot and hit Parasoul's foot before the napalm shot hits you, negating the shot and winning you the fireball war.

11:50 - in this moment, you had Parasoul in the corner, you successfully grabbed her, and then dropped a combo. However, the combo wasn't the huge missed opportunity here. Even with a full combo, you would still need another touch to kill parasoul. Instead, you'll notice Squigly was bleeding A LOT in this situation. If you snapped her in, you would only need to score one hit, complete a combo, and you have a dead Squigly.

24:41 - congrats on landing Val's Lvl2 counter! Just note that while they are frozen, you have plenty of time to load up a vial, and then hit them with a combo.

I'm seeing general unfamiliarity against the parasoul match up. Against her projectiles, just play patiently. Jump forward and block her projectiles. Walk her down to the corner, and inch your way to her. You can also pushblock them to eventually push her to the corner. As Val, you could throw stuff back, or whiff air H bypass and cancel it into scalpels to get in. As Bella, you can reflect the shots back.

Against Parasoul's rushdown, you can only learn to block her stuff after getting beat up by her enough. But just note that she has 2 overheads: fwd+Lp, and back+hk. Because of her ability to chain overheads and lows and keep you guessing which order she's going to chain them, you generally want to pushblock her away as soon as she touches you.
 
Just a curiosity Skodial but what are you using to record your matches and uploading them to Youtube? Is it just OBS then taking the saved video file and straight upload or do you also use a software to edit it as well?
 
Burpinator said:
Just a curiosity Skodial but what are you using to record your matches and uploading them to Youtube? Is it just OBS then taking the saved video file and straight upload or do you also use a software to edit it as well?
I use XSpilt Broadcast to record, then edit in Sony Vegas 11. I usually do a better job of editing, but i did not have a lot of time for the last video. Neither program is that easy to learn, but the quality is worth it
 
For bella resets, there's at least 2 options that are really simple to use that you should look into. As Lex said, cMK is an easy one but just do cMK -> runstop -> cLK or cMK -> runstop -> air throw. Most people get hit by one of these in my experience, so it's a good starting point, and avoid pummel horse if you can. Another easy one is when you do bella jLP in your Bnb, do jLP -> jLK and go for Ground throw/cLK/Air throw. It's really easy to setup and work with so it should be mostly fine when you get the hang of it.
 
fenster said:
For bella resets, there's at least 2 options that are really simple to use that you should look into. As Lex said, cMK is an easy one but just do cMK -> runstop -> cLK or cMK -> runstop -> air throw. Most people get hit by one of these in my experience, so it's a good starting point, and avoid pummel horse if you can. Another easy one is when you do bella jLP in your Bnb, do jLP -> jLK and go for Ground throw/cLK/Air throw. It's really easy to setup and work with so it should be mostly fine when you get the hang of it.

I was going through videos that were showing *a ton* of options. Now, it's great for people like me to have all of these resources. Without the forums and community, I would still be clueless about the game 6 months in. The hard part was sifting out ones that are easier (i'm not looking for easy stuff because I'm lazy. With less then 100 hours in her, i'm realizing that I still have a ways to go with Bella to get anywhere near the point I am at with Val).

The reset options that you have suggested are things that I know I can place in my combo without modifying it. I'm fairly comfortable with using the command run in a combo, which is nice to have now. And the other reset will help me become better with using Bella's different grabs. Thank you for stopping by and giving advice. I really appreciate the time you took to talk about combos that newer Bella players could pick up on.

Did you read the last couple posts where I explain how cool pummel horse looks?
 
When I play Bella I usually go for really simple setups:
C.hp, j.lp, j.lk, reset
S.mp, wait, reset
S.lp, s.lp, reset
C.mk, j.mp, land, reset
Basically any point where you can cause them to hit the ground you can go for a reset
 
Yes I saw. If you like the way pummel horse is animated, then that's fine and it's a sign that you should learn to use it in combos as an extension, but it's still a pretty poor (or, at the very least, kind jank) reset tool that typically should be avoided until you have a solid grasp on the more solid stuff. I was just here to tell you what, from my experience, "works", since that's the best I can give.

Oh and I also noticed in the video that you always tried to jump when LittleMissFoxy was running A train. An important thing to remember against people who use A train/excellabela is that if they keep calling them, that the assist won't cover the ground, so it should be a sign for you to try and play more grounded. A lot of times when you got caught, you got scared from a dash when you saw the assist and upbacked, but you need to recognize what assist they are using and adjust if it's one of those AA grab ones.
 
fenster said:
Yes I saw. If you like the way pummel horse is animated, then that's fine and it's a sign that you should learn to use it in combos as an extension, but it's still a pretty poor (or, at the very least, kind jank) reset tool that typically should be avoided until you have a solid grasp on the more solid stuff. I was just here to tell you what, from my experience, "works", since that's the best I can give.

I'm silly on here sometimes, and my humor doesn't always translate. After about 2 weeks of using it as a reset option, I see that pummel horse is more 'party trick' than anything else. Cool when it works, laughed at when it doesn't. I have not been using resets as often as I use to, and really need to work on them for Val too. I found resets that are kinda similar to the ones you mentioned, but these seem to be closer to what I am currently doing. So the transition should be smoother in training.

Oh and I also noticed in the video that you always tried to jump when LittleMissFoxy was running A train. An important thing to remember against people who use A train/excellabela is that if they keep calling them, that the assist won't cover the ground, so it should be a sign for you to try and play more grounded. A lot of times when you got caught, you got scared from a dash when you saw the assist and upbacked, but you need to recognize what assist they are using and adjust if it's one of those AA grab ones.

Yea...Big Band's assists have always given me a lot of trouble. I have become slightly better with blocking them, but have yet found a plan to successfully navigate them. I jump too often, and it's my current Val thing I am working on. But this advice also is a huge help. Again, it means a lot to see great players like you taking time to help others who are new to the genre and struggle. Thank you
 
So between reset option I have found (and graciously been given), I have been able to put together a list of Bella reset ideas that should mix up my game with her. Some may work better than others, some may rarely work, and maybe there's one here that will be a huge help. The fun part will be finding what works for me, using more of Bella's tools, and then using them in matches.

c8acb4ba52e4144837b24b25529ac08a.jpg

There is also a JoshB reset idea:
MP > pause > [figure out what normal to use after hitstun ends. MAKE SURE TO MIX IT UP!]

The real joy is seeing hard work pay off. I felt the salt when tying down my new Val stuff, but all the work is worth it when I see the time and effort translate to wins against previously impossible opponents.
 
Skodial said:
I use XSpilt Broadcast to record, then edit in Sony Vegas 11. I usually do a better job of editing, but i did not have a lot of time for the last video. Neither program is that easy to learn, but the quality is worth it

Interesting. How much do they both cost to use?
 
Burpinator said:
Interesting. How much do they both cost to use?
XSpilt Broadcast itself is free. But since I also record racing sims, I wanted to record in 1080 at 60fps. To unlock that feature, it cost $30/year. I know many people use OBS (I think it's called that), but I know absolutely nothing about it. Do your research on both and go for the one that fits your needs.

I'm not sure what version of Sony Vegas is out these days. From version 11 on, I found very little difference in features offered. Sony Vegas 11 cost me $30 on Amazon in February 2015. After the learning curve, which I found to be kinda steep, it is a great all around program that has a ton of features. Buy a physical version.

Trust me.
 
Skodial said:
Sony Vegas 11 cost me $30 on Amazon in February 2015. After the learning curve, which I found to be kinda steep, it is a great all around program that has a ton of features. Buy a physical version.
I thought Sony Vegas was also a Per Monthly purchases as well as X-split. does getting a physical version mean you only have to pay for it once?
 
Burpinator said:
I thought Sony Vegas was also a Per Monthly purchases as well as X-split. does getting a physical version mean you only have to pay for it once?
I know Sony has a ton of BS that they try to get people to pay for, but I bought Vegas once and that was it. I recommend buying a physical copy because I have friends who had issues with ditigal copies of editing programs. I'm also an old fart, so I personally enjoy having physical copies of things like programs and video games just in case you have to reinstall everything.

Also, what platform do you play SG on?
 
For you're cr.MK, RS reset you have cr.LK and Excellabella as your two reset options. I'd replace Excella with LK if you want something to hit them meaty to catch falling jabs before they land since Excella is quite punishable and it is beaten by just blocking.

Also, Burpinator; I use OBS for my recording and I've found it to be pretty good (+ it's free). You may need to look up a couple tutorials on how to set it up but once you do that it's fine.
 
Skodial said:
Also, what platform do you play SG on?

I play primarily on PC. I have it on PS4 but I love my Logitech controller and I stay on my laptop more often anyways.

Im mostly asking since I'd like to upload videos to youtube (SG sessions, LP's and such). Im looking up on Sony Vegas stuff now but I am confused on what i should get since on Amazon it says that Sony Vegas 11 is unavailable for me (Canadian Amazon by the way). Im having trouble finding the right software since I am seeing movie studio's, Sony Vegas Pro's that are in the 200$< (for some reason on Amazon.com SV Pro 11 is 705$ :P)

Lex said:
Also, Burpinator; I use OBS for my recording and I've found it to be pretty good (+ it's free). You may need to look up a couple tutorials on how to set it up but once you do that it's fine.

Its not really the recording software I am worried about. Since I know OBS has the possibility to do it. Im more so looking into how I can edit the videos and not have to spend more then 300$.
 
Last edited:
So. Cracked into a couple of those Bella resets from last night. For reference, I started out with #1 and #3 on that list.

And wow.

After being on the receiving end of having to guess which type of reset is coming, or if one is even coming, it was great to finally be the one handing them out. The simple resets are so satisfying when they work. Now that i have more than one Bella reset, I can start the guessing game myself.

They weren't the cleanest ever, and I just scratched the surface, but I saw my Cerebella game grow in one evening. I also noticed that I need to get back in Valentine. I was sloppy with inputs in close matches with her. I've given 4 characters a solid whack in SG so far (Val, Fukua, Ms. Fortune, and Bella). Valentine is definitely the most challenging out of this group, with the level of precision that's required to pull off combos.

Of course, this is matter of opinion. I'm sure others would find Fortune to be a nightmare. I didn't find her super difficult....i just couldn't get into her. That was a sad panda moment. What are your thoughts about what characters you have found challenging, and why?
 
Last edited:
Personally I found Squigly the easiest in terms of learning the character. Why I am still working on using Resets her BnB is REALLY easy and flows niceley to me when using it. She also has some nice reset points and if I learned how to stancel and make better use of Seria Cancels more then she is a reset mix up queen. Usually the characters I have a harder time learning are the ones where thier air strings are height dependent like with Val on her normal BnB if the opponent is to high or low in the air then your BnB is messed up (Some characters have more lieniate air strings like Squigly).
 
Skodial said:
What are your thoughts about what characters you have found challenging, and why?
Before Eliza was released, I had spent about 30 hours with the game before giving up. I had tried ms. Fortune, and she didn't click with me cause I didn't like playing her headless, then I went with val cause she reminded me of taki from soulcalibur, the only fighting game I've ever really gotten into before SG (and she was my pro choice), but she required a level of precision and quickness which I just wasn't ready to embrace. Then I tried squigs when she was released, but I was too daunted by the depth of her potential, so I gave up there too. Then years rolled by. I managed to snag Eliza for free and so she was just sitting in my library. Finally got serious into the game and tried Eliza for the first time. And instantly fell in love. The way she hits, the hitstun and the timing on her combo's, the spacing required, her air normals and her wonderful instant air dash, not to mention the raw damage and the ability to deploy Sekhmet. She fulfilled just about everything I wanted in a character.
The most challenging things about her were her slowness, her punishability, and her lack of "easy" reversals (dp hits super low on light punch and awful far away in heavy, and only Heavy has full strike invincibility I believe. Also her only reversal super costs 3 meters, which is a huge amount of bar that often you might not have due to use of Sekhmet)





 
all of them have full strike invul
none are grab invul
 
It isn't so much about winning and losing (yeah...I'll believe it lol), but it's more about how you play compared to previous times at any type of SG event. I skipped SALTY after coming down with a cold. But I was well rested for Get GR8. The results won't show it, but I was finally consistent. I played the way I should have. Consistent in my combos, better at blocking, and adjusted a little bit. I played someone who is way above my skill level, and held my own very well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheCrankMachine
Saw your matches against Salty Eliza. People keep telling you bypass is too dangerous to use as a full screen punish but you keep landing them and getting good reads, so I'd tell you to keep doing it and keep getting better at it until it actually starts to hurt you.

You played those matches very well, very cleanly. Felt like S. E.'s neutral wasn't quite as up to snuff but his resets were hurting a lot. You could have punished his attempt at a grab reset after he used heavy osiris spiral with a quick air normal, since he had to wait for you to hit the ground before grabbing you, though I understand if you didn't see it coming. Remember that only light osiris spiral can be combo'd (the version that only hits twice).

Your recent performance is making me tremble in my boots though, so keep levelling up bruh!
 
Beta Ray Bill said:
so I'd tell you to keep doing it and keep getting better at it until it actually starts to hurt you.
That's how bad habits develop. Unlearning bad habits is harder than picking up new, healthier ones.

I wouldn't say stop doing air bypass, but get in the habit of canceling it into scalpels on whiff/block. Practice on the training dummy by setting block to random. If you hear the sound effect where they block, cancel into scalpels immediately to make it safe. If the dummy got hit, combo away.

Also note that players can stuff air bypass by throwing out projectiles or buttons like double's j.hp and painwheel's j.mp. And then there's things like Beat Extend assist. So don't throw it out all the time as your main tool to get in with Val. The great thing about assist like LnL and Drill is that you can call them, and just run forward under the assist's cover.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheCrankMachine
Beta Ray Bill said:
Saw your matches against Salty Eliza. People keep telling you bypass is too dangerous to use as a full screen punish but you keep landing them and getting good reads, so I'd tell you to keep doing it and keep getting better at it until it actually starts to hurt you.
Well, the reason it seems that way is because nobody seems to realise just how punishable blocked/whiffed air bypass is. From the matches I've seen of Skodial's in the past (don't know if I've watched vs Salty) next to no one punished him when they could easily be getting HCH punishes.
 
I'm slowly doing less and less H Bypasses to get in. They work sometimes, and sometimes they are blocked. I can never remember to do the scalpel super to make it safer. I at least try to do them more often when opponents are double jumping or when I hit them with a projectile. So the next Val thing I should work on is go in the lab and do a ton of bypass > scalpels to burn that in my mind.

I do need to go through my matches with a critical eye like I normally do. I'm sure that there is a lot to pick apart...but for once, I took time to watch the results of all the work I've put into the game this summer. I finally look like I know what I'm doing sometimes. I'm adjusting to matchups, and using the tricks my characters have to exploit weaknesses in others (sometimes). This upcoming week marks the 6 month point with my first fighting game.

I have a long, long way to go before I reach a point where I am not a potato in a tournament. But I've come a long way.
 
Meh. Whatever brings you victory. If people are too bad to block or punish his bypasses, why should he stop taking advantage of them? If you look hard enough into it, every option can yield negative consequences. Skodial is a grown man. If he starts losing half his matches due to bad bypasses, he'll change his approach. He's not at that point where he needs to fret over every little "textbook mistake".

Ultimately, we can only give you an opinion of what we think might be better for you. You've already been told a score of times about your bypasses. You can either drop them and try to preemptively learn from the mistakes of others, or you can go ahead and learn from your own mistakes, as they come to you. In my OPINION, it's only the latter way we truly learn.
 
*IDEA*

So. I need to cast a critical eye on my Get GR8 matches. I see we have a discussion going on here. It time to make a plan to step my game up now that I broke through a ceiling. And I love making lists of things to do (cue Twilight Sparkle). How about we combine them!

Today at 5pm PST, I'll be hosting a stream of my review and critique of the matches against Salty Eliza.

2 drink minimum.

https://www.twitch.tv/the_beverly_hillbilly
 
And short answer as to why I haven't made fixing my bypass addiction a priority. This is a bad answer, but this will give more context as to what happened:

It worked JUST often enough that it got (by)passed up for issues that I deemed more pressing (Val needs a much better BnB, new Val combo wasn't working with X characters, learned Cerebella, worked on all of Bella's commands, and worked on how to use assists better).

While my list is still a mile long, I have some time right meow where I do not have a ton of things to work on (the only other thing I currently have up on the board is more Bella reset options to put in current combo). I can sense Fedora Ninja-san and Lex-san screaming this at me. So let's fix an old problem this week!
 
Last edited:
Beta Ray Bill said:
If people are too bad to block or punish his bypasses, why should he stop taking advantage of them? If you look hard enough into it, every option can yield negative consequences.
Sure, there are potential consequences for every action, but the level of risk can be mitigated to a safe degree, or to at least to the point where you aren't left at a complete disadvantage.
Unsafe blockstrings leading to a launcher or HP/HK with lots of recovery can be made safe by cancelling into a special that is plus on block, or at the very least not punishable by a jab. After a blocked/whiffed air bypass, you are left in a position where you cannot block, move, or do any actions in the air until you hit the ground. Simply put, you are free for a HCH combo and will die against good players.

Learning to cancel into scalpels (which is safe on block) completely nullifies this risk.


Beta Ray Bill said:
You can either drop them and try to preemptively learn from the mistakes of others, or you can go ahead and learn from your own mistakes, as they come to you. In my OPINION, it's only the latter way we truly learn.
Awareness and prevention is the best method to prevent any disaster. Smoking causes lung cancer, you don't build a house in Cali without any earthquake precautions, you don't put all your information on the internet and you don't make easy passwords. Oh and "only you can prevent forest fires." You don't wait for the shitstorm to happen; you build safety measures so that when prevention fails and shitstorms do happen, it won't be so shit.

The main thing is that Hillbilly is asking for help, with goals to eventually reach high levels. These tips are simply measures so that the next time I play him (or someone around or above my skill level plays him) he won't die so easily. Videos are documentation that he's improving.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lex
if we are talking about safe things, its better not doing bypass at all unless vs peacock, as even with the super cancel, it still loses to alpha counter and you cant react to the flash since you just used a super
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back