Yeah I always felt that's a tad silly. Safe on block maybe, to allow her to blockstring into it safely. But totally invuln? Please no. Those two things shouldn't go together, ever.
- Head toss is vulnerable to throws, though it is kinda silly that it's hit invincible and + on block.Ok, so after much thought and frustration I think I know where Fortune can get nerfs without completely changing her play style:
- Make removing the head a risky process; being able to take it off with a fully invulnerable move that causes stagger and gives you the advantage over frames on block as well as now having the head off ready to make every move safe is pretty ridiculous
- Don't let the head cancel moves into Omnomnom
- If the head is hit have it suffer from lockdown (5s.HP length at the most)
- Reduce the range of slides to make spacing more important for making moves safe, but maybe make it possible to have the head walk in exchange (this is an iffy clause, but it makes up for the lack of mobility from reduced slide distance, although reducing slide range on its own could be fine and not need compensation).
I get people with raw Nom all the time (just super jump into double jump and people are considerably more susceptible to any head attack), I had a few solo matches with Isa yesterday and I'm pretty sure I managed to grind his nerves with it. The idea behind reduced slide distance was to decrease her combo potential unless she's spaced correctly, but admittedly it hits too hard because of the carry on Fortune's air super, that's why I think letting the head walk around if you hold HP or something (which wouldn't require any extra assets because Fortune's head walks around in her headless victory animation) would be a good replacement for that range.- Head toss is vulnerable to throws, though it is kinda silly that it's hit invincible and + on block.
- Nom would be pretty useless, then. You're barely ever gonna hit it raw and it doesn't do much as a combo tool. Zoom > Nom already causes extra cooldown than just a zoom or nom alone.
- This or longer cooldown on blocked head attacks. Or both?
- This would kill her headless combos since the slide barely covers the distance needed to continue comboing after a super. :( (It'd be nice if she could instantly summon the head to her position but that's too much work and would make no sense)
That actually would be fair, yes
Is it really a buff at this point though? Will it allow more damage, or similar damage and more corner carry (cause more corner carry at the cost of damage isn't strictly an advantage IMO.)
I play Filia and I play Fortune, I have done since SG's initial release, as someone who should be biased in Fortune's favor I can safely say she needs a nerf, people who play Fortune for a week can do as much damage as someone who's played any other character for months because her head makes virtually everything safe and she has some stupid moves (i.e Head removal).
The actual reason for the removal of airball cancel was "because she shouldn't get the damage AND the corner carry from the same thing," which is incredibly ironic considering Valentine exists.I play Filia and I play Fortune, I have done since SG's initial release, as someone who should be biased in Fortune's favor I can safely say she needs a nerf, people who play Fortune for a week can do as much damage as someone who's played any other character for months because her head makes virtually everything safe and she has some stupid moves (i.e Head removal).
I was also under the impression that Filia's hairball loops had been removed because of damage concerns (in fact this is exactly what I was told when they were taken out), but the new undizzy should alleviate those, making the removal of the loops obsolete, and that's why I want them (As well as all the other arbitrary combo restrictions that now serve no purpose) to be removed.
Are you seriously trying to bring that argument in here too over something virtually unrelated?
It might just be me, but Val still seems okay. Again, long combos were never something I could pull off, so maybe it's just that I'm playing the way I always played.He brought up Val's damage and corner carry, so I vented by posting a way you get "big damage" with her now... which is a joke.
Nobody has to argue about anything, but some buffs thrown Val's way too would be nice. Maybe undo the change that made J. HP bounce the opponent higher than it did originally. 'Makes it easier to bring light-weights down after a launch (or get rid of the weight-class BS altogether).
So don't use scalpels in the corner.What I proposed has more to do with positioning than combo length.
I also still think the ground version of her scalpel super needs to be fixed for when it's used right next to someone or in the corner (will only hit some characters with 1 out of the 8 scaplels... just move her back a little bit before she throws them). That'll make it so carrying someone to the corner and then using super isn't going to make you lose out on either the corner advantage or damage from the super.
What I proposed has more to do with positioning than combo length.
I also still think the ground version of her scalpel super needs to be fixed for when it's used right next to someone or in the corner (will only hit some characters with 1 out of the 8 scaplels... just move her back a little bit before she throws them). That'll make it so carrying someone to the corner and then using super isn't going to make you lose out on either the corner advantage or damage from the super.
There was something about that which was apparently completely busted with how it originally worked and was changed, so I doubt he'd bring it back.
I thought Filia was top tier, and Valentine too (on teams), along with Double (who is like on every pro team). What about Bella, Squigly (who everyone agrees is the worst character), Peacock, etc.? If we are talking about buffs, we should look at the characters that really need them rather than the ones who already got plenty.
Nope
No, don't do that
The game has/will changed recently, we can't just assume tiers will stay the same.I thought Filia was top tier, and Valentine too (on teams), along with Double (who is like on every pro team). What about Bella, Squigly (who everyone agrees is the worst character), Peacock, etc.? If we are talking about buffs, we should look at the characters that really need them rather than the ones who already got plenty.
Actually you're 100% right, much of what people are saying is just theory fighter. the reasoning is that these limits aren't needed anymore because undizzy will prevent combos from getting too long or damaging. I honestly find it rather reasonable as well.
Ok ok I got this.
I do. It'd be nice to see her actually getting a reward from making a hard read instead of just having the opponent be knocked away from her so she has to work to get in again.
I wouldn't consider landing excellebella a hard read, and you do get in vs your opponent with the exception of landing it with your back against the wall regardless if they can tech the ground or not.
As an assist it also wouldn't be fun to fight someone who combo's into excellebella, gets 20 days to get to where he needs to be, then makes you choose between throw, overhead, low, cross up etc. I don't want to fight a filia or val who can get that positioning for free, nor do I want to fight a peacock who uses the sliding knockdown as a way to charge soid for free as I sit on the ground waiting.