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Shin Megami Tensei and Persona

yo, isn't that the guy from that parody video of "the new Sega"?
 
EA575 said:
The way I see it, This isn't an SMT x FE game anymore. Just another Persona-style game with Fire Emblem characters as summons(?)

I'm gonna watch the 45-minute Treehouse demo later before I can make a real observation of this game.
Finally watched this video.

There's nothing in there that interests me at all. It's supposed to be a game that appeals to a cross-section of both series' fans but I don't know who this is supposed to appeal to except a different audience altogether?

I mean, who looks at Fire Emblem and SMT and then thinks: "These are okay and all BUT YOU KNOW WHAT BOTH THESE GAMES NEED? IDOLS. IDOLS EVERYWHERE!!!"


So whatever, this new IP isn't intended towards me and I'll be skipping it. Good on them for trying to capture a new audience though.
 
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Persona said:
So whatever, this new IP isn't intended towards me and I'll be skipping it. Good on them for trying to capture a new audience though.

On the contrary, I don't think this is an attempt at capturing a new audience. It's an attempt to further milk the success of Persona 3/4. Just watching the original trailer of not-smtXfe makes me think "Persona 3/4 opening, but without the style or talent". They're just being more blatant about the fanservicy elements and anime tropes.

It might be an okay dungeon crawl, but to be honest, unless Kazumo Kaneko is directing, or they assign the Etrian Odyssey team to it, I wouldn't bet on it being anything spectacular in that department. It'll probably be an okay game, but the chances of it being another Nocturne are nil imo, and the utterly amazing concept of a Fire Emblem SRPG with SMT mechanics is sadly lost.
 
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well considering that the otaku market is the most substantial of the consistent niche markets in japan so I can't really fault them
SMT games haven't really been in style since Persona 3 happened, even SMT4 didn't have Kaneko on art due to how his art doesn't have that anime appeal.
The people asking for an actual SMTxFE aren't really enough to warrant the cost of making one
they're just loud enough to seem like they are
 
They chased away Persona. PERSONA. A guy who's name possibly coincidentally coincides with the franchise this looks the most like, and you chased him away. I don't see how much farther it can spiral :3

Squire Grooktook said:
It might be an okay dungeon crawl, but to be honest, unless Kazumo Kaneko is directing, or they assign the Etrian Odyssey team to it, I wouldn't bet on it being anything spectacular in that department. It'll probably be an okay game, but the chances of it being another Nocturne are nil imo, and the utterly amazing concept of a Fire Emblem SRPG with SMT mechanics is sadly lost.

tbh honest, and you've brought up the idea of it being an SRPG up multiple times, they said that's what it started out as, but the pieces didn't quite fit into a cohesive package iirc.

To be more honest, I didn't want to see an SRPG. I don't think it needed to be an SRPG, at all. Maybe its cause I'm pissed at Devil Survivor for its blatant BS and unfair enemy placement and builds, but I really don't want a game with mechanics like Devil Survivor mixing with FE. FE can be ruthless and strategic and overall great, but I don't want it to dip into the giant well of luck-based bull that Devil Survivor and the main series tend to do, honestly. An RPG would make it feel less imbalanced or less out to mutilate the player. There are too many times I've lost all my energy after getting stomped in SMT or FE, mostly due to how far I was when I got stomped, only to have to go thru all the pain all over and hope the insta kill doesn't work, or avoid that crit that got me.

So imho, a mashup of the two into an SRPG could be done, but I'd rather not take the chance it becomes something as anti-player as the SMT games can be. If you want a challenge, go ahead, but I'd prefer a tough but plausible RPG like Nocturne or DDS. It doesn't have to be an exact fusion, and thats what we're getting here.
 
Crossovers being SRPGs are so gauche too, just look at all the Cross Edges and Namco X Capcoms and Project X Zones out there
and how they're all shit
not that this is much better, mind you
 
I thought DS was damn hard, but I talked to an rpg player who's way better than me and explained how to run through the game with barely any grinding.

That being said, Devil Survivor isn't really anything like FE. It's more like Final Fantasy Tactics X SMT, what with the whole turn system and other elements lifted from those games. There's really no reason to think an smt x fe srpg would be anything like Devil Survivor. FFT and FE are a world apart in terms of game plan, tactics, mechanics, etc.

North888 said:
they said that's what it started out as, but the pieces didn't quite fit into a cohesive package iirc.

Further proof that they have no idea what they're doing.

I'd rather they go out on a limb and try to make something fresh and fun work, then go for a generic dungeon crawl with some weapon triangles and fe-ish things thrown in. Dungeon crawls are like shmups: It's not hard to make okay ones, but it takes real talent to make great ones. I'm sure this'll be okay, but with Etrian Odyssey out there, I don't see any reason to invest in it.
 
Yes, you can go through DS without tons of grinding, but you can say the same about Nocturne, or most RPGs or any sort. I don't think being able to run through a game without tons of grinding in a very specific manner prevents the game from being generally harder than necessary and not super well designed.

Additionally, the comparison I make isn't one because I don't know much about SRPGs, I make it because SMT games generally follow a pattern of difficulty. Most of the games aren't easy. They are actively a challenge and put you in positions where you're the weaker fighter and you have to fight out of it. However, that being said, if the crossover were to be an SRPG, I feel that wouldn't fly. They would have to simiplify mechanics, probably reduce the crazy extra turns you can get with Press Turns, and heavily alter the world, either so that demon negotiation can happen during combat (free world or instanced areas with demons roaming about a neutral parties that can be recruited using certain characters), or do something similar to DS. My whole point here is that while I get the idea of an SRPG could seem appealing, they do have to at least attempt to cater towards both series. It can't just be pure SMT-style game design with FE mechanics and worlds.
 
North888 said:
Additionally, the comparison I make isn't one because I don't know much about SRPGs, I make it because SMT games generally follow a pattern of difficulty. Most of the games aren't easy. They are actively a challenge and put you in positions where you're the weaker fighter and you have to fight out of it.

The same could be said about most srpg's as well. Fe itself, you're always outnumbered 3 to 1. The fact that the game compensates for this by generally making your characters individually stronger than the approaching zerg rush on a 1 to 1 basis is actually one of the biggest criticisms I've heard about the games from more "hardcore" srpg fans, who would prefer if you were legitimately weaker.

In fact, this is pretty much how most difficult games work. Player characters are usually weaker than the opponent in some ways, though they usually have things going for them that the opponent doesn't. You're technically weaker than The Matador, up until you beat him, but the fact that he has an AI routine that can be learned and that you can bring any party combination you want into the fight, means that even a low level Demi Fiend has advantages over him from the get-go.

North888 said:
they do have to at least attempt to cater towards both series.

I don't think they have.

FE is all about being an srpg at its core. Attempting to make a cross over and not at least having movement, would be like if the Touhou fighting games didn't have projectiles, or if a Metroid game didn't have exploration, or if Divekick characters guest starred in another fighter and couldn't do dive kicks, or if The Souls games weren't challenging and let you instantly respawn from death with no penalty.

As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing in this that even remotely appeals to the Fire Emblem side other then a few references.

*edit* missed this

Ruin said:
Crossovers being SRPGs are so gauche too, just look at all the Cross Edges and Namco X Capcoms and Project X Zones out there
and how they're all shit
not that this is much better, mind you
Super Robot Wars is one of the oldest srpg series and a huge cross over. I'm not a big fan of its mechanics, but it's generally well regarded. Much more so than Namco X Capcom or Cross Edge.
 
God I would lose it if RE Idol Persona thing FE whatever it's called worked like SRW.
 
Squire Grooktook said:
Super Robot Wars is one of the oldest srpg series and a huge cross over. I'm not a big fan of its mechanics, but it's generally well regarded. Much more so than Namco X Capcom or Cross Edge.
From what I understand. The lineage of most Japanese SRPG's can be traced to Fire Emblem for the Famicom in one way or another. They will add or subtract mechanics but the basic formula of grid based movement, having units that attack/counterattack during the same turn, some form of weapons matchup that determines what is better against what, etc.

Edit: Forgot to add my point. There are enough popular SRPG's out there that making the #FE a persona style turn-based game makes no sense and I can't see a good defense for the move. But I get it, #FE is not a game made for fans of the mainline SMT franchises or Fire Emblem fans. From what we've seen it's going to sprinkle on the fan service and references but Atlus is continuing it's marketting towards a different fanbase. I'll just replay SMT II if I want my gothic settings.
 
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I'll just be happy if the opening of the game is basically just Exile Tribe's 24World.
 
Ruin said:
Crossovers being SRPGs are so gauche too, just look at all the Cross Edges and Namco X Capcoms and Project X Zones out there
and how they're all shit
not that this is much better, mind you

marvel vs capcom?
 
ah yes the venerable strategy roleplaying game, marvel vs. capcom
 
Ruin said:
ah yes the venerable strategy roleplaying game, marvel vs. capcom
Heroes and Heralads was a RST though.
 
Squire Grooktook said:
On the contrary, I don't think this is an attempt at capturing a new audience. It's an attempt to further milk the success of Persona 3/4. Just watching the original trailer of not-smtXfe makes me think "Persona 3/4 opening, but without the style or talent". They're just being more blatant about the fanservicy elements and anime tropes.

It might be an okay dungeon crawl, but to be honest, unless Kazumo Kaneko is directing, or they assign the Etrian Odyssey team to it, I wouldn't bet on it being anything spectacular in that department. It'll probably be an okay game, but the chances of it being another Nocturne are nil imo, and the utterly amazing concept of a Fire Emblem SRPG with SMT mechanics is sadly lost.

It seems like a pretty far cry from Persona 3 and 4 as well. Pretty much the only thing it has in common with P4 is that they both have upbeat openings. That's kinda it. P3's tone in both the game and it's opening are way different than this. I think they're just making a pretty uninspired anime game with SMT and FE names. Nothing about the game screams Persona either, because honestly if it felt like Persona and Fire Emblem mixed together id still be somewhat excited. It literally feels like it's own thing entirely.

Also you can't blame a game for not being another Nocturne yo, that's setting the bar way too high.
 
josshu said:
It seems like a pretty far cry from Persona 3 and 4 as well. Pretty much the only thing it has in common with P4 is that they both have upbeat openings. That's kinda it. P3's tone in both the game and it's opening are way different than this. I think they're just making a pretty uninspired anime game with SMT and FE names. Nothing about the game screams Persona either, because honestly if it felt like Persona and Fire Emblem mixed together id still be somewhat excited. It literally feels like it's own thing entirely.

Also you can't blame a game for not being another Nocturne yo, that's setting the bar way too high.

Well, the Persona derivative elements thus far imo:

-Emphasis on a "school life" setting
-Seems to mix a "normal" and "other" world
-Characters summon stands familiars to fight for them, just FE people now.
-Upbeat opening (as you mentioned )and colorful "pop" imagery, though not nearly as well handled.

As for Nocturne, it's just a good measuring stick for a combination of outstanding gameplay and outstanding seting/atmosphere/story/aesthetics.

As I mentioned, I think it's fairly easy to make "okay" dungeon crawls, but it's difficult to make amazing ones. I have a similar attitude with shmups, where I try to look for things that are unique or outstanding and not just another Cave/Touhou clone. I think there are some really great dungeon crawls out there (Etrian Odyssey comes to mind), but as these guys have made a number of mistakes already, don't have much to their credit, and have failed to come up with a gameplay concept that mixes the appeal of either games, I'm not expecting that much skill.

I think "they wanted to make an srpg but couldn't pull it off" is a bullshit excuse for a lack of skill or ingenuity. If you're going to make a mash up, you either get the best of both worlds or you can the project.

Look at Mario RPG on Super Nes. What's Mario about? Jumping. Do you think the guys at Square back in the day thought it was good enough to just say "we can't think of a way to combine a platformer and an rpg, so let's just make a standard issue dungeon crawl with some Mario references and loosely translated mechanics". No. They incorporated platforming into the exploration. They incorporated jumping into the combat itself. In fact, they went so far as to make sure it wasn't even an aesthetic touch, letting you get bonuses for timimg your jumps and other abilities like a platformer. They actually went the extra mile to make sure it had the Mario/Platformer appeal in an rpg. I don't see anything that clever here.

Basically everything interesting about Fire Emblem comes from the fact that's it's an srpg. A very stripped down, fast paced, srpg. Weapon triangles and supports already have loose equivalents in other rpg's and the smt series itself. And it's the movement and spacing in FE that makes those mechanics interesting and unique in FE. Trying to make a FE cross over without movement is like trying to make a Mario game without jumping.
 
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But by your own example, it doesn't HAVE to be an SRPG. By your own example with Super Mario RPG, it could be an RPG, so long as it has elements of both, which it does attempt to do. It has the weapon triangle, and that seems to actively factor into not only basic attacks, but elemental attacks, weaknesses, and having skills that break your current weapon basis. I don't think you're necessarily taking the gameplay into perspective. Does it perfectly fuse the two? No, it doesn't. But honestly, it feels like you're just complaining it isn't an SRPG.

"They incorporated Jumping into an RPG." Yeah, they incorporated weapon and element triangles directly into the gameplay as part of the RPG mechanic AND something akin to the pair ups in Awakening. Maybe think your examples out better next time.
 
North888 said:
But by your own example, it doesn't HAVE to be an SRPG. By your own example with Super Mario RPG, it could be an RPG, so long as it has elements of both, which it does attempt to do. It has the weapon triangle, and that seems to actively factor into not only basic attacks, but elemental attacks, weaknesses, and having skills that break your current weapon basis. I don't think you're necessarily taking the gameplay into perspective. Does it perfectly fuse the two? No, it doesn't. But honestly, it feels like you're just complaining it isn't an SRPG.

"They incorporated Jumping into an RPG." Yeah, they incorporated weapon and element triangles directly into the gameplay as part of the RPG mechanic AND something akin to the pair ups in Awakening. Maybe think your examples out better next time.

Blame ninja edits, but I already addressed this

Squire Grooktook said:
Basically everything interesting about Fire Emblem comes from the fact that's it's an srpg. A very stripped down, fast paced, srpg. Weapon triangles and supports already have loose equivalents in other rpg's and the smt series itself. And it's the movement and spacing in FE that makes those mechanics interesting and unique in FE. Trying to make a FE cross over without movement is like trying to make a Mario game without jumping.

Weapon triangles are only interesting in FE because of movement. Because you're trying to position yourself to maximize the advantageous battles and minimize the disadvantageous battles. Without movement, there's nothing interesting about an incredibly simple rock-paper-scissors style system. The elemental weaknesses found in most rpg's (and smt itself, where it plays a massive role) do the same thing already and do it in a way that's better tailored for a turn based rpg.

Yes, I am complaining about it not being an SRPG. Because that is the core of what makes FE interesting. It's a very simple system with not a lot of complex or innovative systems, and is ultimately just a stripped down arcadey strategy game. And that's exactly why it's fun. If you're not going to include elements of positioning or movement, you shouldn't put FE in the title at all IMO.

If the game turns out fresh, fun, and unique, I don't mind eating my words at all and playing it. But I don't see a lot of reason to put faith or high hopes in these guys at the moment. And I don't see it as having any Fire Emblem appeal at all.
 
I see your point. However, I counter that I don't feel SMT itself would a great SRPG. If you put SMT-elements you may have something akin to a Press Turn system. In such as that, pacing would be even higher and be about exploiting weaknesses. At the same time, however, I don't think you'd be able to create a fair playing field by combining the two's core gameplay into an SRPG. I feel the better path would be as an RPG due to the way SMT plays and how its easier to adapt and to make battles more fair on the player. As an SRPG, I feel all the possible open-endedness of it could obscure any sense of balance there is, especially since the game would have to be harder and have other mechanics representing the SMT franchise as well.

My point is that I feel an SRPG was never the right route for this, even if it screws the game more towards SMT than FE.
 
Squire Grooktook said:
Well, the Persona derivative elements thus far imo:

-Emphasis on a "school life" setting
-Seems to mix a "normal" and "other" world
-Characters summon stands familiars to fight for them, just FE people now.
-Upbeat opening (as you mentioned )and colorful "pop" imagery, though not nearly as well handled.

Ah. Now that you mention it there is the school life aspect at play here, and the "other world" trope as well. Plus, I can't really argue with the "stand" observation. I can see what you're saying. Perhaps it is a matter of them trying to milk Persona , as you said, but not really understanding what made Persona 3 and 4 great. Still, I feel as though the game is thematically and aesthetically pretty far off from Persona. Like I said, if it had been a Persona/FE mixup, that would've been exciting too.

Still, there's chance we're all judging the game prematurely. I'm happy that they haven't abandoned turn based combat at least, and the story could take a dark turn or play with the idol theme beyond just glitter and sugar coating.

I kinda feel like all they had to do was make a Fire Emblem world, with a politically driven war, and give your party members a bunch of COMPS. Then we got Mages casting Arc Fire and Pyro Jacks casting Agidyne and everyone's hee-hoo-ing. Plus in half the Fire Emblem games they end up fighting a God or an ancient evil by the end anyway, so it wouldn't even be all that jarring for demons to show up.
 
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North888 said:
I see your point. However, I counter that I don't feel SMT itself would a great SRPG...
My point is that I feel an SRPG was never the right route for this, even if it screws the game more towards SMT than FE.

That all depends on execution. There are an enormous number of ways one could balance the two playstyles, or "interpret" the mechanics form one on to the other (would press turns allow the unit who acted to act again? Or would it effect counter-attack rate? or would it give adjacent units the chance to act again? Perhaps an evolution of Dual Strike from Awakening? Or something else entirely? Would it use FE style encounters or Devil Survivor quick battles? etc. etc.)

North888 said:
As an SRPG, I feel all the possible open-endedness of it could obscure any sense of balance there is, especially since the game would have to be harder and have other mechanics representing the SMT franchise as well.

I don't think "open-endedness" would be an issue if they used a linear no-grinding-ever style fe campaign, or if they just put some time and thought into balancing what you can build and when.

I think you're coming at this from the impression that SMT is so much harder than FE, but I would actually argue that FE is just as "hard" as your average SMT title. Easier if you're not going for a no-casuality run for sure, but otherwise the average FE mission is about as long, intense, and brutally punishing for a single mistake (perhaps more so, since a single mistake even from an advantageous position can and will force you to restart the 30 minute fight or haunt you for the rest of the game) as any smt boss or dungeon. Both games feature copious luck elements that force improvisation too, so I don't agree that SMT is the source of all rng-hell or that FE can't be balanced around luck (because it has been).

Nocturne only has the illusion of intense brutality because there is something of a grind wall, but just a smaller and more hazy one (ie it gives you the illusion of not having to grind, which makes it "seem" harder and more skillbased, but realistically most people will have to grind). FE Sacred Stones without grinding is probably far more ridiculous and nerve wracking than any low level SMT boss fight IMO.

So basically, I don't think there's any reason to think that SMT + FE = unplayably hard. Both games are balanced for what they are, and there's no reason you couldn't balance a fusion of the two mechanics.
 
I didn't really mean unplayably hard. This is what I get for being up way past when I should be asleep and trying to say things intelligently :/

Anywys, again, I see your point. What I meant moreso was that I feel it would be possible to mesh the SMT elements more directly as an RPG. The examples you game with the Press Turn options make sense, but at the same time, we'd have a lot more element abuse. It would a lot more focus on the single battles as weapon differences would mean far more than previous titles. I could see it adding more depth to it, but at the same time, I'm more leaning towards the idea that making the weapon triangle more based along the lines of weaknesses between the 3 of them would drastically alter what makes both games what they are. I dunno, I guess I just personally prefer it as an RPG over what could possibly be an SRPG with too much emphasis on pre planning. FE already has tons of luck to it. Having an opponent be able to abuse a system based around the weapon triangle, which would be smaller and more structured than SMT elements are, doesn't seem like an effective way to fuse the two.
 
North888 said:
I feel it would be possible to mesh the SMT elements more directly as an RPG. The examples you game with the Press Turn options make sense, but at the same time, we'd have a lot more element abuse...which would be smaller and more structured than SMT elements are, doesn't seem like an effective way to fuse the two.

Once again, it depends on execution and how the mechanics were interpreted. Elements could be chucked or fused with the weapon triangles. Press Turns could be altered to work differently in the new context, or ditched in favor of a new turn system that works better with the ability to move about the map or however battles work, etc.

I think a lot of your assumptions are based on the idea that all the mechanics in the two systems would simply be mashed together with no consideration for balancing, adapting, or selectively axing them.

North888 said:
I dunno, I guess I just personally prefer it as an RPG

And that's fine, but judging by fan reaction, I don't think I'm in a minority here. The whole idea of a demon summoning tactical rpg with Fire Emblem's briskly paced large scale battles and intuitively stripped down systems, and SMT'S momentum based tactics, is one that I think caught the eye of many people. It's actually a really ingenious combination, so I don't think it's any surprise that a lot of people felt very let down to find out that an idea with so many possibility (in a rather starved genre, rts and srpg's are surprisingly rare outside the big names) was axed in favor of something that we've already gotten too much of from Atlus.

Both gameplay wise and aesthetically, Metroid fans complaining about Federation Forces got nothing on what happened here.
 
@North888: To be honest, press turn is only a recent innovation when looking at the whole of the SMT franchise. And while it's certainly a popular mechanic it could have be put to the side for this one title given it's parents. There is still the standard "initiative" based order system that every other title used. There is also the fire emblem style of combat where both sides take turns attacking and capable units counter attack.
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I think the biggest obstacle to combining these two franchises is deciding how units would engage on a tactical plane. SMT places far more options in the hands of individual units with their range of offensive/defensive capabilities. Even in Devil Survivor your individual units represent up to 3 entities. As Squire pointed out there is also a far more complex system around exploiting weaknesses in SMT as opposed to Fire Emblem. It would be weird to have units with the range of resistances/weaknesses to the different affinities found in SMT, limited to only one attack option like FE. That's why I think #FE stuck with SMT-style combat for the most part.

I keep going back to the Majin Tensei games on this because what I think would work is taking the overall themes found in the SMT setting and mixing those with FE mechanics. If the game were to feature knights fighting demons in a post-apocalyptic setting you'd win right there. There could be a secondary weapons "triangle" (or whatever geometric shape is needed) to represent elemental attributes that would be layered on top of the standard weapons triangle. So you'd have standard attacks and then attacks that could have an element tied to them as a damage modifier.

So instead of trying to match all of the current conventions that SMT has with it's battle system, strip it down to the bare essentials and use that with an FE core. And I realize now that going with a unique setting is probably better overall.
 
Should P3 DAN happen, it would be interesting to see how its presented, given P3's overall tone doesnt lend itself to a dancing game anywhere as P4's (mostly) lighthearted vibes, especially as far as characters are concerned. Hard to imagine a bunch of miserable teens dancing, as much as i'd like a P3 DAN

Would it go the canon route like P4 DAN? What time period would it be set in i.e. would the cast appear as they are in P3 or the Arena/Ultimax games?
 
Yeah but the P3 cast pretty much got less serious with the Arena games though [Super Sentai, baseball coach, Aigis, Aki, and Mits is more silly now, etc] so if a P3DAN happens after Ultimax then I can see a much more easier transition.
 
Found a very interesting bundle of translated interviews and such that all relate to Megaten courtesy of dijeh.tumblr.com [Link]
It covers interview with various designers and directors for games ranging from SMT I to SMT IV so have fun.
 
does it talk about what magic they used to someone the ethereal being that is Keita Amemiya?
 
SanoBaron said:
does it talk about what magic they used to someone the ethereal being that is Keita Amemiya?
Far as I can tell no. You'll have to find out what dark ritual they performed on your own. Might i recommend a library? They have this nice tome called the Necronomicon. Seems like a good place to start.
 
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not even the Necronomicon can bring forth Amemiya on it's own. it's too scurred.
 
PaperBag_Sniper said:
@North888
I think the biggest obstacle to combining these two franchises is deciding how units would engage on a tactical plane. SMT places far more options in the hands of individual units with their range of offensive/defensive capabilities. Even in Devil Survivor your individual units represent up to 3 entities. As Squire pointed out there is also a far more complex system around exploiting weaknesses in SMT as opposed to Fire Emblem. It would be weird to have units with the range of resistances/weaknesses to the different affinities found in SMT, limited to only one attack option like FE. That's why I think #FE stuck with SMT-style combat for the most part...So instead of trying to match all of the current conventions that SMT has with it's battle system, strip it down to the bare essentials and use that with an FE core. And I realize now that going with a unique setting is probably better overall.

Actually, I was thinking something along the lines of Super Robot Wars.

SRW plays similar to FE superficially, having the same turn order system (no "speed" based turn order ala FFT), having units engage and counterattack eachother in one go, etc. The difference is that it's less stripped down and more expanded. Each unit has a variety of physical and energy based attacks with different properties, as well as a lot more stats and extra options per turn. Also, after you attack, you get to choose a stance for the enemy turn (ie don't counterattack next time you're attacked, but raise evade rate. Or increase defense while lowering attack and evasion, etc.)

I like the extra options, but one of the reasons (among other things) that stopped me from getting into SWR in the same way as FE is that the dearth of stats and attributes on attacks to keep track of makes the game feel slower and more methodical, despite the "over the top" aesthetic and presentation. Another advantage of FE's weapon triangles is that combined with classes, you can tell in a moment who will come out on top in a battle. You don't have to sit there and measure stats for 2 minutes before you commit to attacks.

That's where I think an FE x SMT srpg could work. Give units more abilities and options, ala the SMT rpg's, but streamline what will be effective against what via some kind of weakness system.

Demon Summoning could also bring in some elements from the Advance Wars series. IE the Fire Emblem style human characters could be strong and posess a wider range of abilities, while Demon's could be akin fo the units in Advance Wars, weak and one dimensional, but infinitely producible by both sides with the right resources. Heck, if all demon's needed to be created mid battle, you could have a Starcraft style tech tree going on with mid battle fusion, where both sides are racing to get the resources needed to fuse the juggernauts.
 
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I just wanna see more of Touma.
because i like Touma.
he's red.
and he's a cool toku guy with a cool character from the first Fire Emblem that came out in America.
Touma is cool.
 
Squire Grooktook said:
Actually, I was thinking something along the lines of Super Robot Wars.

SRW plays similar to FE superficially, having the same turn order system (no "speed" based turn order ala FFT), having units engage and counterattack eachother in one go, etc. The difference is that it's less stripped down and more expanded. Each unit has a variety of physical and energy based attacks with different properties, as well as a lot more stats and extra options per turn. Also, after you attack, you get to choose a stance for the enemy turn (ie don't counterattack next time you're attacked, but raise evade rate. Or increase defense while lowering attack and evasion, etc.)
Yeah, I've been playing SRW OG1 for the GBA recently and it definitely has more options available to individual units by a mile.

I like the extra options, but one of the reasons (among other things) that stopped me from getting into SWR in the same way as FE is that the dearth of stats and attributes on attacks to keep track of makes the game feel slower and more methodical, despite the "over the top" aesthetic and presentation. Another advantage of FE's weapon triangles is that combined with classes, you can tell in a moment who will come out on top in a battle. You don't have to sit there and measure stats for 2 minutes before you commit to attacks.
Which is also something I was told about on /srwg/. The games are pretty stat intensive and require a fair amount of min/maxing later in the game to get the better endings due to weird difficulty spikes and conditions.

That's where I think an FE x SMT srpg could work. Give units more abilities and options, ala the SMT rpg's, but streamline what will be effective against what via some kind of weakness system.

Demon Summoning could also bring in some elements from the Advance Wars series. IE the Fire Emblem style human characters could be strong and posess a wider range of abilities, while Demon's could be akin fo the units in Advance Wars, weak and one dimensional, but infinitely producible by both sides with the right resources.
They have a solution for that, Macca. In the recent games it's just a cost associated with summoning demons from the compendium which is almost identical to how funds work in Advance Wars.

It's also interesting that you bring up Advance Wars. It's the only Intelligent Systems series I have any real experience with and it seems like it's base systems would mesh better with what SMT does a little better than FE. But Advance Wars is all but dead now and Fire Emblem is still going strong so there's that.

I think representing demons the way AW does is also a good way to go. Demons are already broken up into races and sub-types so making those races templates for unit types (I.E: Flying, ground, direct-attack, indirect-attack, support unit, attack unit) solves the issue of how to accommodate a wide range of demons into battles while keeping things simple enough to match what Fire Emblem does. Each type of demon has one or two types of attacks, and special properties can be given to specific demons (charm, sleep, mute, etc).
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I think you would have to ditch the weapon's pyramid for the most part since Advance Wars has a different type of relationship between attack types for the most part, but there still are some obvious Rock, Paper, Scissors matchups in that game so it could still work. .
 
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