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I have a question cause it seems really weird. Is Parasoul's cMK>sHP supposed to not be a true block string? There's one frame of an opening there which is a little confusing. I can understand cmk>BHK not being true etc... but that one? Is there a reason for it... if not could I ask for a QoL change and make the blockstun 1f more, and then increase the recovery by one frame. Effectively keeping it at -4 but able to block string into sHP. If this breaks her in some way then w/e but this seems weird. Especially because she has a lot of minus stuff on a block (and hit) which with things like 5LP (-7) [which is fine btw because of the range]. Having that as would help her a lot with pressure in general, without breaking the character, unless I'm missing something.
RE: Beowulf movement
I would argue retail Beowulf is the least mobile, however now Beowulf having a double jump at least some of the time I would put him on par with Parasoul for the worst movement class. That being said when he had metered chair recall I would put him above her. That being said though a number of jumps aren't the only thing entailed in movement.
Also, IDK if this was addressed b4 but can there be a buffer window of some sort/make it bigger if there is one or something during the Sekhmet's return? QoL request? Thoughts.
Just want to show some comparisons between retail and beta beowulf. The video is strictly retail beowulf.
Combo1:
- Retail nets ~7.5k and a hard knockdown
- Beta nets 6.9k with geatish trepak replaced with EX wolf press slam for hard knockdown; requires and uses 1 hype
Combo2:
- Retail nets 7.7k, hard knockdown; gains 1 hype
- Beta nets ~7.2k, uses EX wolf press hard knockdown; gains and uses 1 hype
EDIT: I'd kinda like to see him be able to still gain hype after using an EX in a combo using a chair slam. Might not be so bad with them only giving you 1 hype back and I think they would let him retain his ability to do some of his retail stuff. The lack of freedom in getting a hard knockdown is the one biggest turnoff for me with beta beowulf.
Just want to show some comparisons between retail and beta beowulf. The video is strictly retail beowulf.
I feel like the comparisons are a bit misleading, considering the changes to the combos which then require assists and no longer work on heavy and medium weights, Such as the Chairless Crouching heavy punch and then pick up with Chairless J.hp onto chair with assist is strictly a lights only string so that's much more restricting, Beowulf used to have trouble comboing heavies in retail too, but if you stuck to ground strings you could get good damage out of it regardless but if I try to stick to ground strings with beta Beowulf when I'm labing stuff its a nightmare and I'm always on the losing end of resources if I want to get a not mediocre combo, which would be fine but in a game like skullgirls it never feels like you should ever risk letting up pressure to build a resource and the risks involved with trying to build it in neutral don't feel at all worth what you actually get out of having hype built. And I feel your first comparison of a solo Beowulf combo being compared to a combo requiring an assist like beat extend just to get the utility and it still not holding up is a bit telling in all honesty. Beowulf NEEDING these assists to get back to where he started in a combo is kind of upsetting in a way? I feel for iDante in particular because now Solo Beowulf is looking awful because he doesn't have assists to pick up after his combos like Beowulf is seeming to be getting balanced around.
I just feel like Beowulf was okay where he was, the first row of changes were too good, I agree, but then exactly what I was afraid of happening happened and he got overnerfed and even the things he GAINED were made "okay" to the point where I really don't know if I feel playing him is still worth it without an assist that lets you do gimmicky combos like squigly does.
I realize most of this isn't related to what you posted remikz, I just don't want to make two posts for no reason.
I have a question cause it seems really weird. Is Parasoul's cMK>sHP supposed to not be a true block string? There's one frame of an opening there which is a little confusing. I can understand cmk>BHK not being true etc... but that one? Is there a reason for it... if not could I ask for a QoL change and make the blockstun 1f more, and then increase the recovery by one frame. Effectively keeping it at -4 but able to block string into sHP. If this breaks her in some way then w/e but this seems weird. Especially because she has a lot of minus stuff on a block (and hit) which with things like 5LP (-7) [which is fine btw because of the range]. Having that as would help her a lot with pressure in general, without breaking the character, unless I'm missing something.
c.mk isn't a block string with most heavy attacks. Maybe any, I'd need to double check if launch is. It's kinda where she gets shitty, whenever you block her, she's free to push blocks.
c.mk isn't a block string with most heavy attacks. Maybe any, I'd need to double check if launch is. It's kinda where she gets shitty, whenever you block her, she's free to push blocks.
alexpi, you're smarter than this. If c.MK s.HP has a 1f gap in it, you want the opponent to try to pushblock.
@Broken Loose Yo instead of subtweeting you probably should have given me an actual answer to the question I already asked instead of answering a question I never asked (I knew what pressure was prior to your essay). I asked how losing hkd affects his pressure. Clearly we were both talking about different things. I was asking about pressure up until the actual hit/before knockdown as I have stated before. You were clearly talking about oki but failed to specify that so I assumed that you were talking about any pressure that wasn't oki based. Your damage analogy about how damage is damage no matter what doesnt really make sense because normal pressure is different from pressure that you do on someone's wakeup. Also as I stated earlier, based on your definitions (with no run, no wavedash, no double jump, no flight, and only a single mobility special that has sizeable startup and leaves you vulnerable until you hit the ground), parasoul is the least mobile character in the game given the fact that she also has none of those while also not having a mobility special like beo does. Sure, her ground dash is better than beo's but she also doesnt have a special that moves her closer to the opponent.
I do not agree with bella not being able to reflect shadows. it was already nuts to try and wait for a held shadow to reflect and she could move around during that. So not being able to reflect just feels unnecessary.
Key (x/y) = Startup/blockstun
If the blockstun of a previously chainable move is greater than the startup of the next chainable move then it is considered a true block string; this also means that if the startup of the next move chained into is less than or equal to the blockstun of the previous move then it is not true. The blockstun was calculated via counting the squares and either adding or subtracting based on the +/- of the move on a block (recovery+saftey).
? means not exactly sure/hard to tell , however, this is the best estimate.
She doesn't have anything so plus that it true block strings into itself indefinitely so recovery is irrelevant here. (For example: In Melty Blood 2A~A~A~A~A is a true block string because you can indefinitely chain 2A into itself and it has enough blockstun to be true. You can do that in SG except for up to 3 times (valentine). And even then for the most part these are two to three separate moves entirely Eliza sHPx3 Parasoul sLPx2/sMKx2)
fLP>H command normal + L>H thing
L>sHP general character rule
fMP>sHP command normal
cMP>everything general move rule cMK>sHP/cHK [proposed change]
Mashing 1f armor normals/specials, strike invul will beat any gap during these w/o push blocking.
cMK has 18f of blockstun meaning any 18 or below frame normal is not a true block string out of it.
If you increases cMK's Blockstun by 2f and also increased the recovery by 2 frames, it would still be -4 and nothing else would be affected except for its ability to cancel into sHP as a true block string. This move is a weird exception in a list of moves seeing as it's true with cHP,sHK. If you increased the blockstun and recovery by 1f it would have this but only string into Sweep. It's weird that cLP>cHK is true but not cMK>cHK.
sMP cannot block string into heavy command normals without a tear already there which is sensible because it can detonate tears. sMK seems like it was designed as a something of a universal connector (because it cannot detonate tears). cMP makes sense because it's not really supposed to be used except to kill people airdashing at you and to be used in tandem with a tear on the screen for Vatista like corner pressure, and is very good as a backdash poke since -7 is fairly unpunishable without meter at certain ranges (which is why cMP>tear is so useful). However, unlike Uniel, there is a large prevalence of 1f armor/invul things. Having that asset (cMK>H non-command normals) without affecting the rest of her gameplan would improve the character without making her more boring, or breaking her. This allows her to be more solid as a character in a way that makes sense. Basically, what I'm asking for is to make cMK like sMP without the ability to detonate tears (meaning it could never be true with bHK or fHP without some incredulous timing) this is fine because it hits low.
Also, as a side-note, I considered asking to make sHP hit one frame earlier (19f>18f) however this would allow cLP to true block string into it as well which would effectively defeat the purpose cause you would just do cLP>sHP all day.
Initial thoughts on the most recent double level 5 change:
I really hate it.
If the point of the last change was to nerf it (which made me almost never use it), it worked.
If the point of the most recent change was to make me never use it, it worked.
For reference, I did a complete level 5 combo from the corner pushing beowulf across the screen.Double exploded at the end, beowulf woke up did gigantic arm, and it COUNTERHIT.
I was wondering if after roadroller hits would it be possible to have the opponent bounce slightly higher? it would let Peacock combo off it easier and it wouldn't mess up the conversion when you do things like argus in to level 3 item drop.
Initial thoughts on the most recent double level 5 change:
I really hate it.
If the point of the last change was to nerf it (which made me almost never use it), it worked.
If the point of the most recent change was to make me never use it, it worked.
For reference, I did a complete level 5 combo from the corner pushing beowulf across the screen.Double exploded at the end, beowulf woke up did gigantic arm, and it COUNTERHIT.
yeah no thanks
No one seems to care though lol. Robo can also wake up Lv.3 L beam ->magnet and do the same thing
Besides the change BlueFeena proposed, I still think sekhmet could use a lil bit of something to make her feel more useful. Right now, it feels like using sekhmet most of the time isnt worth the bar. So I think that to maybe make it a bit more useful in neutral, maybe change qcb+lp from Khopesh to Lunge. She's actually more unsafe but you get a low and gives Eliza a chance to actually have a decent tool to use on the ground. Given the fact that you're using a resource and its pretty minus on block, i think the risk/reward should be fine.
Initial thoughts on the most recent double level 5 change:
I really hate it.
If the point of the last change was to nerf it (which made me almost never use it), it worked.
If the point of the most recent change was to make me never use it, it worked.
For reference, I did a complete level 5 combo from the corner pushing beowulf across the screen.Double exploded at the end, beowulf woke up did gigantic arm, and it COUNTERHIT.
yeah no thanks
So let's do:
1. Everything goes away on hit (you got punished so it's fair)
2. On last hit, double recovers faster than opponent.
The point is how much time you have to punish her... not the practicality of that specific punish
Because L Beam > Level 3 > L Beam > Magnet is one of the fastest punishes I didn't make that connection, sorry.
It doesn't have travel time on top of it's start up like Gregor or Arm does.
Because L Beam > Level 3 > L Beam > Magnet is one of the fastest punishes I didn't make that connection, sorry.
It doesn't have travel time on top of it's start up like Gregor or Arm does.
I said wake up Lv.3 L beam -> magnet. This is a punish on hit not block
Edit: like I'm not arguing with anyone, I'm just trying to understand why I'm spending 5 bars and still getting punished full screen on HIT. I understand if they block it you deserved to be punished for a bad decision/messed up in put or something like that... but after successfully completing a lv.5 combo or reversal midscreen, Double is punishable.
Okay, the order doesn't really matter it's only +4F to do the level 3 first.
Bringing it to around 22F vs 18F.
But yes, I understand.
There's a lot of time to do stuff and it's not about the meter.
The point of my post was just to make sure it was known, just to clarify, I didn't want it to be ignored or I buried because as you said the patch is very near completion. As long as it's addressed I'm cool with it. If it's intended then I'll live double is a fine character without lv.5. Thank you for replying
I feel like the comparisons are a bit misleading, considering the changes to the combos which then require assists and no longer work on heavy and medium weights, Such as the Chairless Crouching heavy punch and then pick up with Chairless J.hp onto chair with assist is strictly a lights only string so that's much more restricting, Beowulf used to have trouble comboing heavies in retail too, but if you stuck to ground strings you could get good damage out of it regardless but if I try to stick to ground strings with beta Beowulf when I'm labing stuff its a nightmare and I'm always on the losing end of resources if I want to get a not mediocre combo, which would be fine but in a game like skullgirls it never feels like you should ever risk letting up pressure to build a resource and the risks involved with trying to build it in neutral don't feel at all worth what you actually get out of having hype built. And I feel your first comparison of a solo Beowulf combo being compared to a combo requiring an assist like beat extend just to get the utility and it still not holding up is a bit telling in all honesty. Beowulf NEEDING these assists to get back to where he started in a combo is kind of upsetting in a way? I feel for iDante in particular because now Solo Beowulf is looking awful because he doesn't have assists to pick up after his combos like Beowulf is seeming to be getting balanced around.
I just feel like Beowulf was okay where he was, the first row of changes were too good, I agree, but then exactly what I was afraid of happening happened and he got overnerfed and even the things he GAINED were made "okay" to the point where I really don't know if I feel playing him is still worth it without an assist that lets you do gimmicky combos like squigly does.
I realize most of this isn't related to what you posted remikz, I just don't want to make two posts for no reason.
I do actually kind of agree with most of what you are saying. My post was made to show that beowulf can actually do more in the current retail version with no resource investment than beowulf currently can in the beta with 1 or 2 hype. The only thing that makes him better in beta is what you can do with 3 hype.
I do actually kind of agree with most of what you are saying. My post was made to show that beowulf can actually do more in the current retail version with no resource investment than beowulf currently can in the beta with 1 or 2 hype. The only thing that makes him better in beta is what you can do with 3 hype.
Yeah I was kinda hoping his damage would be less without hype and *slightly* more with hype. But if you need to use all levels of hype then its completely not the worst, but it also sucks since you can't build after using hype in a combo.
I will say that even though he does less damage being able to combo off j.hp chairless is a very nice tool to have. You'll find that having that will end up being extremely useful vs characters like Eliza, Big band, Bella etc, but again since you can't build hype with enders you might end up being unable to get a hkd sometimes or end up with no hype which would suck.
I will say that even though he does less damage being able to combo off j.hp chairless is a very nice tool to have.
I mean that's true but you could already combo off of it using assists, and at this point it looks like mike is expecting you to combo off it with assists considering the example he showed to explain how he did too much damage used an assist that did just that. So it feels somewhat of a moot point in a way.
He just doesn't feel particularly fun in his current state? I'm not sure honestly. It feels like I'm doing work to build these resources because I'm being forced to and they don't feel worth it.
So does anyone else notice that lobbies are becoming borderline unplayable lately? The majority of my matches ended up booting me out prematurely. I tried to restart the beta, but the problem still persists.
Ever have matches where your team dies and beowulf is by himself? Pretty much thinking of that.
Yeah but having beowulf by himself in his current state seems really dangerous. Like building hype without an assist and retaining it doesn't seem like an easy thing at all alone anymore. I'm not saying he's worthless alone, but I definitely won't be playing him anchor any time soon
That is not what I meant. You can sometimes end up with solo beowulf in matches because it just happens, and in those cases, having hype can make chairless beowulf not feel hopeless. Das all
I actually see it differently. Matches where Beowulf ends up alone further highlights the issue of revolving Beowulf's "balance" around whether or not he can combo off of j.HP using assists that absolutely do not help him in neutral.
RemiKz was right to compare the BnBs. It's not like Beowulf is suddenly a new character that we're testing. We know what works for him assist-wise and the new finishers don't help him in neutral. Should we nerf Cerebella's damage because she gets 10k off of Fugazi assist?
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