• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

You know you can still make your game reset heavy with the CURRENT build.

Also, green bar was added to shorten combos already. Remember the day of just red bar (IPS) and it didn't count different types of the same moves and it reset on tag or DHC? Then it did. Then we got green bar. Then we got shorter green bar... It has to end somewhere.

With 150 undizzy, you might as well get rid of IPS and have undizzy set at 125 or something.


EDIT: I love this community sometimes. People beta testing the beta before it's put into beta just in case Mike adds it to beta.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PME, softie and Pickles
MegamanDS said:
You know you can still make your game reset heavy with the CURRENT build.

Also, green bar was added to shorten combos already. Remember the day of just red bar (IPS) and it didn't count different types of the same moves and it reset on tag or DHC? Then it did. Then we got green bar. Then we got shorter green bar... It has to end somewhere.

With 150 undizzy, you might as well get rid of IPS and have undizzy set at 125 or something.


EDIT: I love this community sometimes. People beta testing the beta before it's put into beta just in case Mike adds it to beta.
Yeah I remember every time and I thought the game ended up incrementally better every time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: softie and dead
Tomo009 said:
Yeah I remember every time and I thought the game ended up incrementally better every time.
I guess that's where opinion comes into play.
 
RemiKz said:
My concern is that a lot of things like overall health, individual damage on attacks, and even how fast the undizzy bar refreshes would need to be adjusted.

I would be seriously concerned about this as well. Like would the amount of resets needed to optimally kill the opponent change? Or just the average amount of time to kill an opponent change(worried about match length)? If it stays the same, would health go down or damage go up or undizzy refresh faster or even CH give more undizzy(i like this last one)? Health and damage changes could mean a lot of rebalancing.
 
Kyugetsuki said:
I would be seriously concerned about this as well. Like would the amount of resets needed to optimally kill the opponent change? Or just the average amount of time to kill an opponent change(worried about match length)? If it stays the same, would health go down or damage go up or undizzy refresh faster or even CH give more undizzy(i like this last one)? Health and damage changes could mean a lot of rebalancing.
That's exactly what we'd figure out by trying it in beta.
 
  • Like
Reactions: softie, Aden, dead and 1 other person
I feel like combo damage is fine how it is now. Some combos can seem a bit obnoxiously long especially if Excellabella or A-Train assists are used though.
 
PandaGirlBingo said:
A-Train assists

hue

But yes, it definitely would hurt combos. But have you thought of the implications outside of combos, resets, and mix-ups, etc? Wouldn't it be an "indirect" buff to zoners, if you just changed it to 150 without tinkering with any damage? Zoners don't really have to really as much on combos as do other characters. A lot of Peacock's game is just a string into M Bang to put them back into fullscreen, then you continue zoning. Also, some characters, like Beowulf, have parts of combos where it adds a dumb amount of dizzy (headbutts and knees).

Changing it to 150 would add a lot of rethinking in terms of combos, and since the beta is supposed to be coming to an end, it was inopportune to suggest it at this stage. If it was one of the first changes for the beta, it would have been fun to try.
 
Changing undizzy honestly would be better for the game. This late... maybe, yeah, maybe it's too late. But considering that most of my teams kill 2v3 if I get the first hit of the match without counter hit, I think toning down the undizzy would be a good thing. Especially if Counter Hit bonus was bumped up (HCH -150, MCH -100, LCH -50?).

I don't think the balance would be effected all that much, tbh. All it would do is make you have to do an additional reset or play neutral one more time. I guess in bad matchups it sucks, but it sucks in those matchups anyway.

As far as other benefits, lowering the undizzy would add a lot of choice into the way we play. Currently, my assistless Bella BNB always does what I need it to. It sets up whatever reset I want, it gives me great corner carry, I can side switch, and it's pretty optimal damage wise. With a lower undizzy count, I would have to choose what I want instead of just getting it all at once. Am I gonna go for the less damaging route that loops into my best reset? Do I want corner carry? Do I want damage, or maybe positioning? Too many combos in today's game give you everything the character could want at the same time. Sometimes they make you choose whether you want resources or if you want pressure, but that's about where the decision making ends.

Again. Might be too late, even though we would get used to it in like a month, but I would probably enjoy the game more if it happened.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: softie, Aden, dead and 4 others
Please leave the undizzy bar alone.
 
definitely like the system the way it is
 
not saying anything new but i definitely fall into the "against" camp, its way too late to test a change like this and the amount of time it would take to not only adjust but also tweak all the numbers for damage/health/etc. is way more than we should be spending at this point in the beta cycle. the game feels fine as is, 150 undizzy seems like a "change just for the sake of changing things" at this point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FuLLBLeeD and mcpeanuts
Okay, I changed my mind.

For people that didn't watch Liam's stream, I seriously encourage you to do so. Instead of often-unproductive speculation, we get a genuine proof of concept for what the game could be with this change.

That, and I see people constantly complain about "Mike Z Game" elements in SG and how the game never lets you play neutral. Why are we shutting down more oppurtunities to play neutral? Doesn't that make the game more honest in the eyes of the people complaining about - you know - the lack of neutral? I think this will improve the game in the long run, and I have WAY more fun spectating the game now.

My main criticism if this were to come out would be that games would take longer, but that is an obvious and unavoidable side effect of the change. I certainly imagine I have more, but I find the good vastly outweighs the bad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dead
Hammerschmidt said:
I see people constantly complain about "Mike Z Game" elements in SG and how the game never lets you play neutral. Why are we shutting down more oppurtunities to play neutral? Doesn't that make the game more honest in the eyes of the people complaining about - you know - the lack of neutral? I think this will improve the game in the long run, and I have WAY more fun spectating the game now.
For most of us who are against this, it isn't that we are against 150ud because we don't like the idea but rather it is too late for a change so major. I'd love to see 150ud in SG2 where the game can be balanced around it but to add this in at the last minute in the last patch (which was originally supposed to be done by now) would alienate a bunch of players and throw the game's balance way off.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Broseidon Rex, softie, missingno and 1 other person
Hammerschmidt said:
For people that didn't watch Liam's stream, I seriously encourage you to do so.
Do you have a link to the VOD? I wasn't even aware that Liam streamed at all and I'd like to hear what he has to say.
 
Hammerschmidt said:
That, and I see people constantly complain about "Mike Z Game" elements in SG and how the game never lets you play neutral. Why are we shutting down more oppurtunities to play neutral? Doesn't that make the game more honest in the eyes of the people complaining about - you know - the lack of neutral? I think this will improve the game in the long run, and I have WAY more fun spectating the game now.


Stop your bullshit.
It does not affect neutral at all. Please look at the game properly. I honestly BEG of you.
On-topic:

As for my vote. I am against just changing a system that's been played by vets for 2+ years in one final change . HOWEVER, I do want to say that i find the game to be more organic. Whatever the outcome for undizzy is. I only hope the community will deal with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: softie, Pickles and Beefy Heropon
I'm a huge fan of 150. Me and woofly and possibly some other EU players tried very hard to convince Mike to make it 150 back when undizzy was first added in 2013, but we failed. My opinion hasn't changed!

Then again, it's not as big of a difference as it sounds because your first and last chain is unaffected by the undizzy limit. It basically reduces combos from ~7 chains to ~5 chains. So even though I think 150 makes for a much better game, I'll still be happy if we end up staying with 240.
 
  • Like
Reactions: softie, Izzmo, Tomo009 and 2 others
The footage speaks for itself. Assuming it does alter game balance, which I don't think it will significantly, I would still prefer an unbalanced games that's super fun than a perfectly tuned game that is less fun.
 
I like the current undizzy the way it is.

Take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I feel like shortening the combos creates less creativity and expressionism within players. That isnt to say resets cant be creative, but something nice to me would be lost with lowered undizzy. Combos might feel more mechanical than fluent if thats understandable.

That being said, im completely open to lowering the undizzy, but am personally not for it
 
Bug report

Every game I've played with Bella or Eliza on point has had the same intro (fist pump and pool), this is without holding buttons, they just get this intro every single time. But it is synced for both players.
 
Looks to me like the 150 undizzy doesn't solve ANY of the "problems" with SG except that now I am forced to reset more often, which I do not want. I like long combos and getting to express myself with them. I don't feel like resets are as fulfilling and enjoyable, I do not like doing them and I hate having to guess with them.


Whatever happens I'm sure it'll end up fine, but there is basically no chance that this change could do much of anything for the playerbase except potentially drive some people away. No WAY that it would bring in new players, like I said before the game is still "get hit and then die if you don't guess these mixups correctly."

There will still be the same complaints from new players who would never ever stick to any fighting game ever due to the fundamental way that fighting games work.
 
I do not like 150 undizzy. It's way too low. If it was like 200 that would be more reasonable. But overall I would prefer it be left alone entirely
 
Last edited:
I'm seriously really sorry but stream archive was set to off, so the entire VoD is lost.
For those who missed it, I changed the Undizzy value from 240 to 150 and then played a FT30 ish with Yaya online.
(Also I am not uploading the trainer without Mike's permission, and he might just try 150 in beta anyway.)

- Combo length from basic starters is pretty short! Doing a thousand rejumps and ground to air to ground to air doesn't really work, you'll run out of Undizzy.
The current combo formula in the beta (not 150) feels like [A bunch of really optimized heavies which looks really cool] > [Some longer stuff to help fill the bar with buttons are optimal] > [Long ass magic series though every button multihitting, special link, second long ass magic series through every button again, super, dhc, you're dead].

- You have to hit the other person A LOT to kill them. Like back to back resets over and over. There's no questioning the increase of 2 player gameplay.
It's also much harder for someone with a ratio advantage to do Touch > Reset > Level 1 > DHC you're dead.

- When you land a M counter hit on a jump in while playing neutral or an M counter hit on a poke [or punish with a throw], combo length looks realllllly similar to 240, you just have to shave like one normal somewhere.

Those are some of the things I noticed.
There's a lot of people who were against 150UD until they saw it in action and changed their minds.

There's also a massive group of people who want the game to stop changing.
If UD was to change to 150, we'd have to scrap every combo type resource and remake it.

So I think the question is, if SG2 DOESN'T HAPPEN then this is the game you're playing for another 10 years.
Maybe looking back in 5 years with no SG2, you might wish you had 150 UD to encourage more chances to live and play, or maybe you like dying super quick and punishing mistakes with brutal damage. Idk.

Mike thought it was worth bringing up so we might as well discuss it...

I guess my final thoughts on it are that it was FUN.
I had more FUN living longer and getting more chances to block things, and I had FUN opening up the opponent more than twice before I could kill them.
Better or worse, I'm not sure it's far too early to tell.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 4th, Broseidon Rex, softie and 12 others
I've never really been active on the forums because I don't think my one little opinion on things is going to change much, but seeing as how this is a really important change I think it's about time I do say something. q_q

I myself am a HUGE fan of the really big combo's and the creativity you can have with them so UD being lowered kinda kills that a bit, but looking back the most fun I've had with this game is when new things happen. It might not be a shared opinion with alot of people, but playing the same thing gets boring. Don't get me wrong, I love Skullgirls, but I think that change is good.
I'd live with 150UD, I'd live with 500UD. (Personally I'd vote for Higher UD and lower damage)

All this being said, I'm fine with 150, it'll spice things up and I'm really looking forward to it.

And what would be the harm to adding it to beta anyway, it'd be a fun little thing to mess around with for a little bit even if it doesn't stay.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Have fun everyone <3<3<3.
 
the question shouldn't even be "would the game be better with 150 undizzy or not", that is a complicated discussion and i'm sure a lot of people who are against the change now might not necessarily say the game wouldn't be better with 150 undizzy. the issue for me, and a lot of other people, is that the game IS going to ship soon, whether it be with 150 undizzy or 240 undizzy, and I think a change as drastic as this would require MUCH more time than we have to test to tune the numbers. (and "even if it doesn't stay it would be a fun thing to try" is illogical at this point, this close to the end of the beta there should be NO changes that do not have a good chance of being in the final game, the time of trying new things just for fun is long since passed)
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcpeanuts, FuLLBLeeD, softie and 2 others
Haven't taken a look at the stream. But after thinking about it for awhile. I'm completely for it. If Mike believes he can balance this w/ whatever help/feedback we can provide(which I assume he does believe since he made that poll), then I would like to see this change happen.
 
Hammerschmidt said:
That, and I see people constantly complain about "Mike Z Game" elements in SG and how the game never lets you play neutral. Why are we shutting down more oppurtunities to play neutral? Doesn't that make the game more honest in the eyes of the people complaining about - you know - the lack of neutral? I think this will improve the game in the long run, and I have WAY more fun spectating the game now.
I'm fine with less neutral in the game Neutral is boring to watch imo. Seeing someone in the corner under pressure and then figuring out how they deal with it or crumble is where the fun stuff happens.

---Fortune video---
That's more of problem with giving a character with a LLMMH magic series a rekka that she can combo from, Fortune's always gonna be dumb in this aspect. 145 UD + ender BS>O look the same amount of damage b/c she only gets the same air+two strings at max undizzy anyway. With super that's still what 7.4-7.6 (assuming 1000 min scale)?
 
Last edited:
150 undizzy would be sweet i keep dropping the end of my combo so making them sorter would be nice
 
  • Like
Reactions: acfan
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back