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Skullgirls Encore Edition Tiers and Matchups Discussion Thread: The Revengeance

I think the reason for some of those wtf peacock matchups is because of how they play her. From the few I've had the chance to watch, they really don't go full on lame play like you would typically see a peacock do from the states. I was really confused watching one specific guy play and hardly using any bombs.
 
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You know what they say about Asians and 'cocks.
 
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Being free to choose between 1 and 3 characters makes it like there are a lot of different games inside one.

What is you guys favorite type of match? 1vs1, 2vs2, 3vs1...?
 
3v3 is where the game shines most for me.
 
1v1 or 2v2. I like the slower rythm of these matches. 3 vs 3 is fun to watch but it is just too crazy for me.
 
I think you guys are confusing Korea with Japan. Magicman, MulNim, etc. are all Korean. The Japanese players most play teams (especially duos).

Still no idea how they think that Para vs. Cock is 70/30 in Para's favor.

(EDIT: That said, I do think they're right about Val. Her tools are incredibly uninspiring, and "being able to confirm off of an assist" doesn't make up for that. Her big advantage is that she's one of the two most straightforward characters in the game for beginners to pick up.)

(DOUBLE EDIT: It also goes a long way to showing just *how* balanced this game is, and that everyone should stop fucking asking for changes. The second worst character has an average matchup of 45-55, and no matchup worse than 40-60. That's incredible. Let's hope Mike Z stops fucking with it.)
 
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Val has multiple weapon normals, options from every range and the best mobility in the game. Also, being "beginner friendly" doesn't make a character any stronger or weaker.
 
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I'm aware that being "beginner friendly" doesn't factor in here; I was just mentioning that to explain exactly why she's so ubiquitous, despite being relatively low tier.

Val's normals aren't that impressive (she loses horribly to about half of the cast in this regard), her long-range options that aren't "call assist" blow (she can throw crosses, but they don't do crap for her, because they're so minus on block), and the mobility options aren't that big of a deal when someone like Cerebella can beat her easily at any angle anyways.
 
My theory is that there are only 7 Japanese players. One amazing PW. One amazing Parasoul, and one really terrible Peacock.

I'm curious why PW is so high and Val is so low since they suffer from the same relative problems and have the same relative strengths.
 
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Spencer said:
I'm curious why PW is so high and Val is so low since they suffer from the same relative problems and have the same relative strengths.
Most JP players play solo characters from what i've seen, so i guess that explains it
 
PS 100% does not have an advantage over Val. St.hk is really hard to deal with. Val's fireball is really hard to deal with. You can get punished fullscreen for napalm shot when they have meter for alpha blade > scalpels. She has really good mobility to get around zoning. It's not anything worse than 6-4 but it's certainly not in PS's favor.
 
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If we're ONLY talking about solos then I think the only matchup Valentine doesn't have at least a little bit of advantage in is v. bella and it's not all that much in bella's favor either

I'd also argue that valentine is the best point character on a team but that's a different point
 
@Domo

I'm talking about solo v solo. PW and Val matches are a whole lot of nothing until one can confirm. They both seem weak on the approach and strong when they are in.

Their differences are relatively minor solo, or at least I always thought so.
 
Mulnim has the absolute weirdest peacock I have ever seen.
 
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hlvn said:
Mulnim has the absolute weirdest peacock I have ever seen.

I just looked him up. I'll have to watch more. Rushdown Peacock's give me nightmares.
 
Vals scalpels are a lot easier to handle now after the nerf.
Vals normals are pretty damn amazing (j.hk to beat everything, j.mp is basically a divekick thing, j.hp has a huge hitbox that covers the entire front and bottom side of val and is a ridiculously good crossup, st.hk has stupid priority and a huge hitbox, st.mk is actually a pretty decent move versus air such as flying painwheel, st.hp has a receded hurtbox.


Mulnims peacock is pretty awesome. Japanese and Koreans play each other because they are pretty close to each other, like Canadians play Americans and Australians play New Zealanders and Europe plays other Europeans...

Which reminds me that i need to be hitting up the Koreans more and getting more solo practice to improve the footsies since mulnim and gfarmer seem to have the best footsies that ive played against in sg.
 
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Er, imo Painwheel is actually pretty strong in solo vs solo. running away and then using nails to get in is pretty dang good when you don't have to worry about assists
 
Domo said:
Er, imo Painwheel is actually pretty strong in solo vs solo. running away and then using nails to get in is pretty dang good when you don't have to worry about assists

100%

Flight cancel pressure is really real when you're only dealing with a solo's reversal capability.

Armor is also kinda dumb solo vs. solo.
 
Solo tier lists are about as relevant as

Anyhow, game is pretty balanced. I think the recent assist changes will do a lot to offset some of the imbalances with certain lockdown and DP assists.
 
Out of curiosity, when do you find time to throw out nails? When I've got space, it works amazingly, but I don't seem to get a lot of space.

I can't think of the last match I've had in which it isn't a full on rushdown. Even Parasouls and Peacock's generally choose to push in rather than out. The exception is Val/PW, but those matches are all about flying around fishing for the first confirmable hit (those two matches stress me out like no other MU).

If you've got any solo PW MU videos, I'd love to see them. I may record a few matches instead and just take criticism. Rushdown Peacock's are getting worse for me (it's that damn persistent walking George that makes it so even confirming, I get hit), and anyone with a DP (sans Squigs) makes getting in rough. I see a lot of opinions about PW solo, but I don't see a lot of videos of her solo (that sounds more snarky than I mean it to... I just mean, share the wealth if you've got it).

I don't know where I'd put PW on the solo spectrum. She has some odd wonky matches (Squigs) and some really rough matches (Parasoul), but she also avoids a lot of the bullshit that other characters have to deal with (Peacock). On my list I'd put PW even with Val, but probably lower than Filia/MF/Bella. For must MU, I think Parasoul is probably stronger too, though from what I hear, her Peacock MU more than makes up for that. Ignoring BB and Fukua since I have zero idea where I'd put them, I'd pretty comfortably say as a solo v solo she is toward the middle (along with Val and and solo v team she is toward the bottom.

A cursory, solo v solo, PW MU list:
BB: Not sure, but early I'd say he's more of a problem as an assist than as a solo for PW

Bella: 4-6. She has the tools to keep PW grounded, and she's nasty on the ground. Might be better since unfly. Still checking that out.

Double: 5-5.

Filia: 4-6. Tough to catch, tough to guard against. Seems immune to push blocking. Probably easiest character to fuck with the reset game both air and ground.

Fukua: Unknown. She seems rough so far, but no doubt a lot of that is inexperience with the MU.

MF: a tight 5-5. If PW gets over head, life gets worse for MF, but until that, the pressure starts on PW.

Psoul: 3-7. I'm still working with unfly to see if that helps, but this is easily the roughest MU in the game.

Pea: Not sure to be honest. I'd have said 6-4 pretty easily, but I've run into some pretty scary Peacocks lately making me wonder how in thefuck I'm supposed to hit them.

Squig: another not sure. I'd also lean toward 6-4. Her j.hk is awful for PW to deal with. It did get better with unfly, and I definitely fly too much... so I'm hesitant here.

Val: An easy 5-5.
 
If I were to make a matchup list based on players from my country, Painwheel would be 0-10 against everyone on the grounds that she doesn't exist.
 
Or 10-0 on the grounds that she's undefeated?
 
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@Spencer

To answer your question... Against zoners you don't need to
Make space since they are running away. Against the rushers.... You make them Jump into your jump back j.mp and confirm
Into full combo... When they tire of that they will either give you space
or start empty jumping. If they start empty jumping then airthrow them, if they break it, frame trap them with j.mp. And finally they will Just tire of all that and give you space. THAT'S when you start throwing stingers. Alternatively if that is too complicated, just grab updo or pillar... Instant respect and you can stinger much easier.
 
Zari0t said:
Newest JP tier list. Mind you, it only applies to 1v1 matchups.

...

They aren't sorted in the chart, the actual point ranking is on the right. Some of these MU evaluations are rather...interesting.

What I want to know is why Double vs Filia and Double vs Bella are even, and Double vs Valentine is positive.

What sort of sorcery do their Double players have, or do they just not have good filia bella or val players?
 
Spencer said:
Here's Magicman who's been mentioned a few times here.

It took until the first Painwheel combo for me to realize "wait a minute, there's no undizzy bars. This is MDE". Good golly I do not miss that version.
 
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Yeah I just grabbed the first one I could find.

Dime probably has better/more recent ones.

Magicman is super fun to watch though and worth the look.
 
I'm confused. The tier list was made by Japanese players right? But people are talking about Korean players?
 
Someone above said they generally play together. So as I understand it, Korean play is similar/equivalent to Japanese play?
 
Spencer said:
Someone above said they generally play together. So as I understand it, Korean play is similar/equivalent to Japanese play?

mostly from what i've seen not really
 
Tomo009 said:
I'm confused. The tier list was made by Japanese players right? But people are talking about Korean players?


With the exception of poccola_margherita, Jap play is team based. The Koreans are the only ones that specialize in solo only play afaik.

Also, just knowing that this is a japanese tier list means next to nothing since it could be like a 2-chan tierlist of who has the biggest bewbs...

I dont know of that many strong japanese players which is why i speculated that it might be based on playing magicman and certain Koreans. For instance i know that poccola (japan) and magicman (Korea) play alot.

I just dont know if Japan's top players made this or what. Hell, any info on the japanese scene at this point would be great.


Inuchiyo came from out of nowhere... He has to play against.... Someone? To get good enough to make top 8...



@KhaosMuffins


There is better video out there. Those vids arent that indicative of the top Koreans or Japanese that much afaik.


Look for baikens youtube channel and gfarmers youtube channel... Mostly sde stuff... But you can see the style of play. Also there are some linked matches here at skullheart in the video threads in their respective sections... Id link but... Ipad.

There are some long vids of mulnim (solo cock) playing...dont know if hes Korea or japan.

Look up "versus mulnim 2014 skullgirls" or some such on youtube and you should be able to find a vid or 2 of him.


Poccola has vids of himself playing against magicman para versus pw on poccolas youtube channel:

Poccola_margherita0141
 
IsaVulpes said:
Neverrrrrr

I actually meant "roughest MU for PW", as I don't play enough of the other characters to make a realistic comparison.

But out of curiosity, what MU do you think compare to PW v Para? Keeping in mind that the MU is considered rough for PW at all levels of play.
 
Good to see Parasoul is still top tier in Japan.
I want to see more Painwheel stuff too because she deserves some attention. People are even dropping her now.

@Dime_x
Can you please try this sometime:
It doesn't take up an entire page.
dimepls.PNG
 
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Dime_x said:
There are some long vids of mulnim (solo cock) playing...dont know if hes Korea or japan.
MulNim is Korean.
 
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