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Skullgirls Encore Edition Tiers and Matchups Discussion Thread: The Revengeance

Spencer said:
But out of curiosity, what MU do you think compare to PW v Para? Keeping in mind that the MU is considered rough for PW at all levels of play.
There's no way any 1v1 is the worst matchup in the game, it'll always be some Solo vs a Trio.

And then we have matchups like
Parasoul vs Parasoul/H.Bomb/H.LnL
Parasoul vs Peacock/H.Pillar/H.Brass
Parasoul vs Fortune/X/Y
etc

Painwheel vs Parasoul/H.Bomb/H.Updo or something to that effect is probably pretty high on the garbage-matchups chart, but PW vs PS 1v1 is not gonna end up as any bad in comparison.
 
Skarmand said:
Good to see Parasoul is still top tier in Japan.
I want to see more Painwheel stuff too because she deserves some attention. People are even dropping her now.

@Dime_x
Can you please try this sometime:
It doesn't take up an entire page.
View attachment 2584

How about we get off of Dime's case now? Compared to what he used to post on a more regularly basis, the length of his posts now is much better. I would have expected this joke to have died out a few months ago. =/

Hell, the only problem with the last post is the line spacing (anyway to fix that @Dime_x). If it's that bad, just ignore him...
 
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View619 said:
How about we get off of Dime's case now? Compared to what he used to post on a regularly basis, the length of his posts now is much better. I would have expected this joke to have died out a few months ago. =/

Hell, the only problem with the last post is the line spacing (anyway to fix that @Dime_x).
It's not a joke, everything he posts is legit completely unreadable
 
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Let's talk about Peacock and Fortune.

Some say Peacock is near the top. Others say she's near the bottom. I don't understand.
Even with the nerfs I still think Fortune is top three. Just that a lot of her game is still underutilized (nobody really uses slide when headless, and there are so few notable players who can play both head-on and headless).
 
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KhaosMuffins said:
Let's talk about Peacock and Fortune.

Some say Peacock is near the top. Others say she's near the bottom. I don't understand.
Even with the nerfs I still think Fortune is top three. Just that a lot of her game is still underutilized (nobody really uses slide when headless, and there are so few notable players who can play both head-on and headless).

About three months ago Peacock was at the bottom of every tier list, along with Bella.

Somewhere between TJ coming back and Negus' solo matchup chart, Painwheel and Bella traded places and Peacock snuck her way into top.

Outside of some minor bella QoL buffs, Painwheel getting unfly and a corner damage nerf there's been very little that would've affected all of them.
 
Peacock is good because of the way the game is. Let me go into further detail
What makes peacock different than the rest of the cast?

1) Meter build. Its ridiculous, and in good match ups(which is like half the cast) she's going to build bar FAST.
2) Damage output. Everyone follows the rule of being somewhat limited by undizzy and having only 1 otg per combo. Neither affect peacocks damage output. She has a lot of ways to combo into her super (which does ridiculous damage) multiple times, and she doesn't use her otg in a lot of them optimal or not.
3) Match ups. They're really good. They get better with assists.
4) No more TODS. This is universal, but in sde she wasn't top only because if you hit her with ANY move she died. She has more chances now. If you mess up, and get hit then RIP you. Now she has over 2 bars, and if you kill her welp. Here comes your opponent with 2-3 bars to make a comeback. It's not the worst.
5) Bursting. When you drop a combo and someone bursts for almost everyone its bad. No one wants to be put fullscreen, but peacock doesn't care. In fact its probably BETTER for her to be bursted so she can play a zoning game if the peacock player wants to play that game or build more meter.

Peacock is pretty good.

@Fortune
Fortune can't dp me when she has head off so I'm not even stressing her tier placement bro~
 
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Top 6 has been relatively the same since SDE it would be nice if the DLC actually changed something.
 
Okay lets stop beating around the bush.

Valentine has been top 3 in legit EVERY version of the game.

"Nah its Duckator"

I DONT EVEN WANNA HEAR IT.
 
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keninblack said:
Okay lets stop beating around the bush.

Valentine has been top 3 in legit EVERY version of the game.

"Nah its Duckator"

I DONT EVEN WANNA HEAR IT.
Well, she has phenomenal normals, the best throw in the game, the best mobility in the game, a completely safe level 1 super, can corner carry from anywhere, zoning so good it outzoned one of the two dedicated zoning characters, no bad matchups, a backdash that rewards you for mashing pushblock (and nullifies low/throw mixups AND also leads into overhead), and to top it all off she has a shitload of stuff she just hasn't needed to explore yet like vials and revivals.

In exchange for all of this, she doesn't have a completely invincible reversal, which is trivially compensated for by assists. Or not even necessary, really; Magneto didn't have a reversal in MvC2 and he was still top tier.
 
Ummmmm.....


Peacock is top tier because plane is top tier.

End of story. Take away uber plane and you get rid of uber peacock (in this version).
 
Literally everybody worth a crap at this game dodges that plane at least half of the time.
 
Out of the frying pan and into the fryer. I could use old school fireball uppercut to show that dodging moves doesn't necessarily weaken the power of the move... I mean have fun jumping into that uppercut... But yeah I dodge it. And sometimes that gives me a good position... But most of the time that just puts right where peacock wants me... In AA assist range or I. The ground dashing and making myself vulnerable to all kinds of stupid ground stuff.

The strength of plane isn't the fact that it hits, the strength of plane is the fact that it hits at full screen and simultaneously controls huge amounts of space.

The only real difference from this peacock and old peacock is a bunch of nerfs to THIS peacock, and 2 buffs. 1 being mp bang (which everyone keeps telling me isn't very good) and the other is new plane.

But hey, if new plane isn't good... Then every peacock out there should be able to do relatively well without it. How many people thInk peacock without new plane is more than midtier? I'd like to see since those people would then have to admit that sde peacock was top tier as well since the only difference would be new mp bang.




Bla bla bla... Plane is strong because of the space it controls and the fact that it always forces "not so great" movement options from the attacker.
 
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The zoner does like 10k with 1 meter I don't wana hear it.

note: This isn't me complaining nor do I think she needs to be nerfed.
 
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keninblack said:
Okay lets stop beating around the bush.

Valentine has been top 3 in legit EVERY version of the game.

"Nah its Duckator"

I DONT EVEN WANNA HEAR IT.
I'd agree with you, except for maybe vanilla.
 
My tier list in terms of armor:
Big Band
Fukua
Cerebella
Poor Painwheel-kinda hard to take advantage of hers, but it's worth it in the end when it connects.
 
Dime_x said:
I'd like to see since those people would then have to admit that sde peacock was top tier as well since the only difference would be new mp bang.
And the general game changes
And a bunch of chars at the top being nerfed tremendously (← this is kinda big yannow)
And yes, Peacock was always good (well..... not in Vanilla, there she simply was the best user of HK Bomber)
 
WrestlerGuile said:
My tier list in terms of armor:
Big Band
Fukua
Cerebella
Poor Painwheel-kinda hard to take advantage of hers, but it's worth it in the end when it connects.
Actually Fukua has the most armor in the game.
Speaking of which how does Fukua match up to the cast, I can see her having some good matchups
 
I've got a pretty good feeling Fukua whoops Big Band for free due to being able to zone him out with air fireballs and can armor through his rush punches and mashed supers.
 
He can armor through the fireballs and hit her out of them like he can vs peacock (I'd imagine)
Rush punches depends on the range. Up close I guess? From far if you want to commit to trying to armor a grab then go for it lol. Don't know if someone can do a reaction command grab vs rush punch, I'd like to see someone do it. If it weren't for j.hk hitting big band while crouching I think this mu would be pretty easy for him, and is probably easy for him if big bands would parry and reversal the obvious j.hks
 
Dime_x said:
How many people thInk peacock without new plane is more than midtier? I'd like to see since those people would then have to admit that sde peacock was top tier as well since the only difference would be new mp bang.

SDE Peacock was top tier...

Peacock has been top tier in every version except vanilla.
 
dekillsage said:
He can armor through the fireballs and hit her out of them like he can vs peacock (I'd imagine)
Rush punches depends on the range. Up close I guess? From far if you want to commit to trying to armor a grab then go for it lol. Don't know if someone can do a reaction command grab vs rush punch, I'd like to see someone do it. If it weren't for j.hk hitting big band while crouching I think this mu would be pretty easy for him, and is probably easy for him if big bands would parry and reversal the obvious j.hks
J.hk is pretty fast and can cross up with lp. Love dart, i dont thing a simple parry would be enough
 
winnie said:
SDE Peacock was top tier...

Peacock has been top tier in every version except vanilla.

rip mde 4ever 4gotten ;(
 
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destruction_adv said:
I'd agree with you, except for maybe vanilla.
Nah, dog. Back then she had Instant Death Green Vial, better shurikens, less damage scaling off of her throws, and Launch Party IPS. She was even better back then, and I'm counting Parasoul with unscaled tear explosions (Mike please bring this back lmao).

edit: I guess she couldn't combo after air scalpels but they were fucking +12 on block until MDE jesus christ
 
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dekillsage said:
He can armor through the fireballs and hit her out of them like he can vs peacock (I'd imagine)
Not really, she zones at an annoying angle where you can't hit her with Brass Knuckles or A-Train. You have to play the matchup honestly by just slowly working your way in by air parrying fireballs. It's actually way easier to get in against Peacock.
 
He can't Giant Step either as she's jumping all the time, and has a really hard time just manoeuvring around the Fireballs, as his body is too big.
Fukua can be rather annoying until she doesn't feel like cornering herself anymore, then go in on her terms with a SJ forward, Doublejump L.Fireball

From what little experience I have playing as/against her, I'd say she has:
- Advantage vs Peacock due to Fireball Super being a safe-on-block Double Car that actually gets you in rather than letting the opponent groundtech .. as long as you have meter, if not it's pretty shit
- Advantage against BB, Parasoul, as they have issues getting around her fireballs
- Disadvantage against Val, as she doesn't
- Disadvantage against PW; haven't played any with Fukua, but she should be able to just fly at the top of the screen and not have an issue with anything I do (same thing as Val, really)
- Disadvantage vs Squigly, can't stop her from getting charge and then Fireballs are done against a char with better buttons

??
- Fortune an Filia. Feels like zoning them works, but a large large part of that is gonna be just people not knowing how to handle Fukua zoning, so I have 0% idea whether that will stay. If someone were to put a gun to my head, I'd put advantage vs Filia and evenish Fortune due to Filia not having a Doublejump.
- Bella. Was IMO good before the shadow nerf; now it's obviously much worse but I dunno how much. Would probably say some kinda disadvantage due to Excel + Dynamo being tombstone AAs, Reflect killing the fireball game and better buttons on ground and air
- Double. ??? No Doubles in Europe

E: Cus someone is gonna cry: THIS IS VERY UP TO CHANGE AND JUST MY INITIAL IMPRESSIONS FROM PLAYING A CHARACTER THAT IS 1% UNLOCKED AND NOBODY KNOWS HOW TO FIGHT AGAINST
 
dekillsage said:
If it weren't for j.hk hitting big band while crouching I think this mu would be pretty easy for him

I thought everyone was saying j.HK was a mid, making it something you can crouch block?
 
fenster said:
I thought everyone was saying j.HK was a mid, making it something you can crouch block?
You can crouchblock it without getting hit, but that still means you're blocking something, and it still means that the 2ndary effect of j.HK triggers (if it hits/gets blocked by something, Fukua dives in on you).
This was a much bigger deal when j.HP after j.HK was a high (giving you very easy high/low via j.HK, c.LK or j.HK>j.HP), but yeah it still means that you have a fast button with a good hitbox that makes Fukua ramp in your face, and there's little you can do about it.
 
Before the shadow hitting head change, it was definitely in Fortune's favor.
 
Can you punt the head with lk clone?
 
@winnie


If sde peacock was top tier... who was she better than:

Fortune (lol, tods and head)
Filia (infinite hairball cancels... Lol tods or near to it)
Val... Um... Unnerfed val, best assist converter in the game, bypass xx scalpels, crazy vials, could zone out most characters with crazy shuriken.
Double...1 meter catheads.... Catheads assist macro...



Peacock... Triple bomb and she currently has double bomb... Who of those does she beat on a tier list?

From my pov she is right in the middle after all of those guys.

@IsaVulpes

Good point, but it still generally agrees with peacock not being THAT great but others around her getting worse and doesnt contradict plane.
 
I'd be willing to say peacock is top tier

if Valentine/Fortune/Filia with something like hornet bomber didn't ruin her


On a completely unrelated note, and this is going to sound crazy, am I the only one that feels headless fortune got gimped too much? I hardly find myself switching from head-on because no invincibility on fiber uppercut kind of sucks and the head isn't nearly as efficient with the added hitstun it takes in neutral situations.

Don't take me wrong, those changes are warranted and I'm mostly ok with them, but now I feel like the head doesn't do nearly enough to compensate for those changes.
 
Clearly we need to nerf head-on a few times to make headless more appealing.
 
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