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Skullgirls Encore Edition Tiers and Matchups Discussion Thread: The Revengeance

really? ummm yah, Clarence i think you are missing something, it probably is just above your head or somethin
 
Domo said:
@Duckator hey duck Val is the worst character right
<@Duckator> Also, japan thinks Val is bad
<@Duckator> And I'm starting to agree with them
 
Man my fortune resets make you wish you were blocking val. When's the last time val ground normal airdash cancelled or backwards forward dash same side cross up?
 
I still dont know who this inuchiyo guy is outside of evo, nor who he even plays against. And like i said before... Last i heard, baiken was Japan's best sg player. At least there are videos of him playing in and winning a tournament.

Inuchiyo might as well be a ghost that shows up at evo.

Meh, i just really dont like cryptic things like "japan thinks val is the worst character in the game" with absolutely no reasoning or explanation... Especially when its essentially from a ghost and his ghost friends.
 
Luweewu said:
<@Duckator> Also, japan thinks Val is bad
<@Duckator> And I'm starting to agree with them

!????!?!?!!!??!?!??!?!?!?!!?!?

Is this another tone-of-voice joke that I'm missing
 
ClarenceMage said:
!????!?!?!!!??!?!??!?!?!?!!?!?

Is this another tone-of-voice joke that I'm missing

Nope, pretty sure thats exactly what duck thinks now/is starting to think. And it makes sense... He's losing with val now, doing what he's always been doing minus being so bypass>scalpels happy as in the past. But he's still not using vals height superiority to call assists from what ive seen. And his resets are still low/throw for the most part resulting in scaled damage from the throw, and he still doesnt use the j.hp crossup resets from what ive seen... Though i guess those may be gimmicky... Which would tell me "make them not gimmicky"

But perhaps he and "japan" are right. I just would like to know at least Japan's perspective on the matter of "why" they think val is low.
 
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She gets crossups & crossunders for free and for days. Her normals are wicked good with strong space control that can easily lead to solid conversions for high damage and corner push on hit confirm. Great (some ridiculously safe) block strings. Excellent movement options on the ground and in the air. She's almost a braindead character once you know her neutral and the matchup.

Valentine being "weak/bad" is likely due to some player's overreliance of assists for their neutral and defense with her on point and simply running her into the ground like she's a glass canon; it's a self fulfilling prophecy with her getting bopped. But if people think Valentine is "weak/bad" please by all means, give her more buffs. I welcome them.
 
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ClarenceMage said:
1. It's already -4, making it effectively "safe".
2. You can do that if they don't punish you right. Don't be a dumbass with scalpels and you will be able to tech as many air throws a you like.
3. s.MP is already safe on block, and the second part is +0 and leaves you at good spacing, and when combined with "The opponnet is probably going to pushblock" s.MP and s.MP MP can actually grant you plus frames while leaving you straight in their face.
4. Alternately, YOU could alter your spacing to be slightly higher! Footsies require spacing, people.
5. There is a secret code in the game where if you hit the opponent with air scalpels close, you hit two punches in the air, and depending on the situation you hit j.MP or j.MK and you'll be able to convert into a combo.
lol
 
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Squigly is better than I initially thought. I'm more comfortable with her in most match ups. My only problem is
WHY ISN'T TREMOLO A LOW? its got low in the name for crying out loud.
 
Mike_Z said:
It could just be that Duck needs to stop running head-on into his opponents' assists. Just sayin', that contributes. :^)

Next you're going to tell me we're supposed to be teching throws rather than just mashing reversal.
 
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akindhobo said:
Squigly is better than I initially thought. I'm more comfortable with her in most match ups. My only problem is
WHY ISN'T TREMOLO A LOW? its got low in the name for crying out loud.
It was...a long time ago.
 
akindhobo said:
Squigly is better than I initially thought. I'm more comfortable with her in most match ups. My only problem is
WHY ISN'T TREMOLO A LOW? its got low in the name for crying out loud.
Why do you want it to be a low? If it's just the name thing, the easier fix would be to rename it Tremomid.
 
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I know how to tremelo. 20 odd years of musical training has yet to teach me how to tremomid.
 
alexpi said:
I know how to tremelo. 20 odd years of musical training has yet to teach me how to tremomid.
You need 100 more years of training to master the tremomid
 
Okay which one of you spoke painwheel's parry into existence? Unfly guard cancelling? you people.
 
One thing I'd like for Squigly is to make her j.MK hitbox a little bigger. The hitbox is smaller than it looks like it should be and it would be nice if it was a bit easier to cross up with.
 
Here's my proposed Squigly buff
emlJbBa.jpg

See that big green box in the bottom right? It's covering a bunch of empty space! I bet if Squigly was made along with the original characters they would have used at least two smaller rectangles for that instead of one big

j.mp looks like a move that should have pretty high priority (It does resemble liver mortis), but instead it just has a kinda alright not bad hitbox, with a weak point in the exact direction it's angled

It's not bad, but most of the time when I use it outside of particular setups it's just because it looks cool

(Feel free to not take this seriously because it's not a big deal and I think Squigly is a good character)
 
mcpeanuts said:
Why do you want it to be a low? If it's just the name thing, the easier fix would be to rename it Tremomid.

cuz there's really no use for it? i mean you already have drag n bite and arpeggio to end combo strings. The only thing about tremolo is that you can combo after it in the corner with an otg. You can already link off a siera drag n bite in the corner and a non siera arpeggio midscreen. If it was low you could use it for some high low mixups like fukua.
 
akindhobo said:
cuz there's really no use for it? i mean you already have drag n bite and arpeggio to end combo strings. The only thing about tremolo is that you can combo after it in the corner with an otg. You can already link off a siera drag n bite in the corner and a non siera arpeggio midscreen. If it was low you could use it for some high low mixups like fukua.
I don't think tremolo hitting low would make it particularly more useful
Squigly already has pretty much unlimited lows, and c.hp is better/safer than tremolo anyway

For level 1 tremolo to be useful outside of combos would require a more fundamental change (Not that everything ever needs to be super useful)
 
akindhobo said:
cuz there's really no use for it? i mean you already have drag n bite and arpeggio to end combo strings. The only thing about tremolo is that you can combo after it in the corner with an otg. You can already link off a siera drag n bite in the corner and a non siera arpeggio midscreen. If it was low you could use it for some high low mixups like fukua.
Charged Tremelo is already really good, it does a lot of chip and tracks full screen. I close games out with it all the time. Also making it a low wouldnt change anything for the reasons zeknife posted.
 
IsaVulpes said:
But you could cancel 6HP into Tremolo
You can already stance cancel 6HP and do whatever you like, including throws or another overhead
Only the first hit needs to be blocked high, so it wouldn't be particularly more tricky to deal with (And get Squigly a lot less out of it on hit)
 
If Painwheel gets a parry can Big Band get an AK-47? How come no character in Skullgirls has an AK-47?

(no more joke posts I swear)
 
I've seen more than a couple people now mention that Big Band needs to be buffed or even that he's bottom tier, but I never really see anyone specify what to improve.

I feel like he has all he needs to compete, and isn't bad at all. He has a few difficult matchups but that seems to be mostly due to his size, not his options. What do people think is so bad about him?
 
You can't improve Big Band without nerfing him elsewhere.

Right now it is a 50/50 game. If he guess right, you eat a ton of damage. If he doesn't, he takes the damage.

And that is at every range in the game. Were he to take buffs in some area, he'd be too much.
 
drewski said:
I've seen more than a couple people now mention that Big Band needs to be buffed or even that he's bottom tier, but I never really see anyone specify what to improve.

I feel like he has all he needs to compete, and isn't bad at all. He has a few difficult matchups but that seems to be mostly due to his size, not his options. What do people think is so bad about him?






-edit... I seem to have lost the entire bit where i said:


"Its to early to call for buffs for him when he usnt fully explored, but if i had to buff him it would probably go something like this:"


The WORST thing about him is how unsafe on block he is. The second worst thing about him is his only high priority air to air attacks... Are unsafe on block (cymbal or j.hk respectively) the 3rd bad thing about him is his beat extend l and m and ssj arent throw invincible, whereas h beat extend is... But is a poor reversal against air attacks.

He definitely needs more exploration before giving him buffs, but if i were to give him a buff according to is current meta goes... I would just make him a lot less unsafe. Id make sure that he is still disadvantaged on everything that he currently is, but less so.

So like L brass would go from minus 6 to like minus 2, h brass would go from minus 24 or so to minus 19 etc etc... Maybe make L overhead plus 0 on block but cant be combod from... Or pushes away on hit so that its very hard to solo combo from... Yeah stuff like that... Nothing major.


I personally think that tweaking frames is the best way to balance characters in any fighting game.
 
I get the feeling that a lot of people aren't considering BB with assists when they tier him. I would say his pressure and mixups aren't 50/50 with something like Lock n Load or Drag n Bite backing you up.
 
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drewski said:
I've seen more than a couple people now mention that Big Band needs to be buffed or even that he's bottom tier, but I never really see anyone specify what to improve.

I feel like he has all he needs to compete, and isn't bad at all. He has a few difficult matchups but that seems to be mostly due to his size, not his options. What do people think is so bad about him?
Make his jumping punches do something, PLEASE.

Giant step times back to what they were the day before he went into live.

I think I'd be pretty happy with Big Band after that. He's a fantastic assist but is struggling on point due to poor air to air at mid - close range..

He forces the opponent to act and I like the high risk game he plays. I want HK giant step to not be abysmal again though. I liked how it could be used to whiff punish and actually catch people off guard before. Now it is reactable, you can basically whiff a heavy full screen and still jump out of it.

In fact, leave LK and MK beat extend as they are, all I want is faster startup on HK giant step, leave it being full punishable from any range whatsoever, I'm fine with that if it can be used to scare people again by being a full screen whiff punish.
 
Tomo009 said:
Make his jumping punches do something, PLEASE.

Giant step times back to what they were the day before he went into live.

I think I'd be pretty happy with Big Band after that. He's a fantastic assist but is struggling on point due to poor air to air at mid - close range..

He forces the opponent to act and I like the high risk game he plays. I want HK giant step to not be abysmal again though. I liked how it could be used to whiff punish and actually catch people off guard before. Now it is reactable, you can basically whiff a heavy full screen and still jump out of it.

In fact, leave LK and MK beat extend as they are, all I want is faster startup on HK giant step, leave it being full punishable from any range whatsoever, I'm fine with that if it can be used to scare people again by being a full screen whiff punish.
I have had some decent results with using j.HP as an air-to-air vs. high jumping characters, but yes they can be pretty difficult to use effectively.

Unfortunately I really didn't play Band that well back in the beta, so I don't have much experience with the old giant step. It is relatively safe from max distance though now, right? I haven't tested what kind of supers can punish it.

Also, with an assist, j.HK is an air-to-air worth exploring.
 
Dime_x said:
So like L brass would go from minus 6 to like minus 2

I really wouldn't change LP brass to be any safer. Back in the beta it was -4 and certain characters really had a very hard time doing anything against it if he just kept doing it over and over because of the huge reach.

Its already basically impossible to punish on block at most ranges except by SSJ and maybe Flatliner.
 
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drewski said:
I have had some decent results with using j.HP as an air-to-air vs. high jumping characters, but yes they can be pretty difficult to use effectively.

Unfortunately I really didn't play Band that well back in the beta, so I don't have much experience with the old giant step. It is relatively safe from max distance though now, right? I haven't tested what kind of supers can punish it.

Also, with an assist, j.HK is an air-to-air worth exploring.

j.HP is arguably useful as an air to air but it is still a REALLY awkward hitbox. I'm acutally not sure how I'd buff them all. Improve the hitboxes a bit and give them a light vacuum or something.

HK giant step was a bit faster before. All giant steps were also safer. I can concede that maybe they should stay as ridiculously unsafe as they are now, but I do want the utility of HK giant step back, it was an interesting part of BB that is now a gimmick. Most moves it would reliably work against now are armoured moves anyway. You used to be able to punish braindead fullscreen whiffing with it and the threat of it actually made people move into A train range. Now they just hang out at full screen waiting for you to do HP brass or HK giant step... both of which are punishbale from that range and will only hit someone sleeping in that situation.
 
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